Which of the T20 schools have the least driven, intense, goal-oriented students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it’s a real problem. You aren’t going to find a T20 that isn’t largely populated by Tracy Flicks. Sorry.

Especially nowadays given what it takes to get into a t 20. Might have been different 25 years ago

25 years ago you could get the disorganized geniuses who walked into the SATs and got 1600 without studying and who kept up a 3.7 or so GPA by never doing the homework but acing the tests. Perfect and intense executive function wasn’t a skill set universally required for admissions back then. But the admissions have changed to essentially remove the quirky geniuses from the student population, because you are only getting into a T20 if you have the executive functioning skills of a mid-career project manager. Hence schools populated almost entirely by Tracy Flicks. Even the athletes are Tracy Flicks. It’s kind of bizarre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it’s a real problem. You aren’t going to find a T20 that isn’t largely populated by Tracy Flicks. Sorry.

+1. Being a grind is how most of these kids got in in the first place. I’m from NC and would say UNC— not quite T20, but close. They must take 80% in state, and their public school system ain’t all that. May be UVA competitive from RTP or Charlotte. But, there will be lots of kids who are solid, but took 5 APs and had some fun. I have to think UT- Austin and some UCs are the same, since the whole states aren’t insanely academically competitive. Also add UGA.

Now, Good luck transferring in OOS.

Yup, I would look beyond T20. I have a kid at one of the "happy, laid back" T15s, and she is studiously grinding away! Relaxing a bit more than her uber competitive HS, and it is taking time to settle in socially. But, she is a total nerd, loving her classes, focused primarily on studies, and she is not alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it’s a real problem. You aren’t going to find a T20 that isn’t largely populated by Tracy Flicks. Sorry.

Especially nowadays given what it takes to get into a t 20. Might have been different 25 years ago

25 years ago you could get the disorganized geniuses who walked into the SATs and got 1600 without studying and who kept up a 3.7 or so GPA by never doing the homework but acing the tests. Perfect and intense executive function wasn’t a skill set universally required for admissions back then. But the admissions have changed to essentially remove the quirky geniuses from the student population, because you are only getting into a T20 if you have the executive functioning skills of a mid-career project manager. Hence schools populated almost entirely by Tracy Flicks. Even the athletes are Tracy Flicks. It’s kind of bizarre.

Plenty of those kids could right to work now and do fine with a bit of training. These top universities are not for the faint of mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it’s a real problem. You aren’t going to find a T20 that isn’t largely populated by Tracy Flicks. Sorry.

Especially nowadays given what it takes to get into a t 20. Might have been different 25 years ago

25 years ago you could get the disorganized geniuses who walked into the SATs and got 1600 without studying and who kept up a 3.7 or so GPA by never doing the homework but acing the tests. Perfect and intense executive function wasn’t a skill set universally required for admissions back then. But the admissions have changed to essentially remove the quirky geniuses from the student population, because you are only getting into a T20 if you have the executive functioning skills of a mid-career project manager. Hence schools populated almost entirely by Tracy Flicks. Even the athletes are Tracy Flicks. It’s kind of bizarre.

Plenty of those kids could right to work now and do fine with a bit of training. These top universities are not for the faint of mind.

Well, they aren’t for the brilliant kids any more either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it’s a real problem. You aren’t going to find a T20 that isn’t largely populated by Tracy Flicks. Sorry.

Especially nowadays given what it takes to get into a t 20. Might have been different 25 years ago

25 years ago you could get the disorganized geniuses who walked into the SATs and got 1600 without studying and who kept up a 3.7 or so GPA by never doing the homework but acing the tests. Perfect and intense executive function wasn’t a skill set universally required for admissions back then. But the admissions have changed to essentially remove the quirky geniuses from the student population, because you are only getting into a T20 if you have the executive functioning skills of a mid-career project manager. Hence schools populated almost entirely by Tracy Flicks. Even the athletes are Tracy Flicks. It’s kind of bizarre.

Plenty of those kids could right to work now and do fine with a bit of training. These top universities are not for the faint of mind.

Well, they aren’t for the brilliant kids any more either.

Plenty of super geeks all around. That's how they got there. And having fun geeking all day and night I suppose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it’s a real problem. You aren’t going to find a T20 that isn’t largely populated by Tracy Flicks. Sorry.

Especially nowadays given what it takes to get into a t 20. Might have been different 25 years ago

25 years ago you could get the disorganized geniuses who walked into the SATs and got 1600 without studying and who kept up a 3.7 or so GPA by never doing the homework but acing the tests. Perfect and intense executive function wasn’t a skill set universally required for admissions back then. But the admissions have changed to essentially remove the quirky geniuses from the student population, because you are only getting into a T20 if you have the executive functioning skills of a mid-career project manager. Hence schools populated almost entirely by Tracy Flicks. Even the athletes are Tracy Flicks. It’s kind of bizarre.

This whole notion that there were all these "disorganized geniuses " in earlier years, and kids now are just well organized with the "geniuses" getting shut out is silly. Back in my day 1600 was an unheard of score. Kids who did well were likely natural test takers with parents who valued education and/or in good schools. We weren't necessarily smarter than kids who didn't score as well. You didn't find these natural Good Will Hunting " geniuses laying about. That is just nonsense. Kids these days are working hard to demonstrate their intellect, artistic talent and work ethic. And, competition is tough. It's not like the "true geniuses" are getting shut out by average bureaucrats. In fact, back in the day, a lot more spaces were going to legacy and connected. Now, kids are submitting evidence of far more course rigor than we had plus talents, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it’s a real problem. You aren’t going to find a T20 that isn’t largely populated by Tracy Flicks. Sorry.

Especially nowadays given what it takes to get into a t 20. Might have been different 25 years ago

25 years ago you could get the disorganized geniuses who walked into the SATs and got 1600 without studying and who kept up a 3.7 or so GPA by never doing the homework but acing the tests. Perfect and intense executive function wasn’t a skill set universally required for admissions back then. But the admissions have changed to essentially remove the quirky geniuses from the student population, because you are only getting into a T20 if you have the executive functioning skills of a mid-career project manager. Hence schools populated almost entirely by Tracy Flicks. Even the athletes are Tracy Flicks. It’s kind of bizarre.

Plenty of those kids could right to work now and do fine with a bit of training. These top universities are not for the faint of mind.

Well, they aren’t for the brilliant kids any more either.

Like the legions of privileged white dudes were the most brilliant minds of the day, right? Because that's what the class make up was. Those sure were the days of brilliant kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Washington & Lee, UCLA, USC, UVA, Vanderbilt come to mind

The only one of those schools in the top 20 are UCLA and Vanderbilt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to Rice (maybe not quite T20) because I wanted that less intense vibe and it was a perfect fit. Really, really bright kids who were interesting and didn’t take themselves too seriously. I feel like I grew into a happy adult, in large part, because of my college experience there.

Rice is indeed a top 20. #15, to be exact.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

[Anonymous]

This thread makes me think l hope my kid chooses to go to school in Canada, where I’m from originally. Much easier to get into a great school, and pretty much everyone has a great time. Not a pressure cooker. (I hope it’s still like that!!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread makes me think l hope my kid chooses to go to school in Canada, where I’m from originally. Much easier to get into a great school, and pretty much everyone has a great time. Not a pressure cooker. (I hope it’s still like that!!)

Working hard at a academic pursuits is a great time for some of these students. Some of them like it. They are are finally in an environment where being a nerd is an asset instead of a liability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it’s a real problem. You aren’t going to find a T20 that isn’t largely populated by Tracy Flicks. Sorry.

Especially nowadays given what it takes to get into a t 20. Might have been different 25 years ago

25 years ago you could get the disorganized geniuses who walked into the SATs and got 1600 without studying and who kept up a 3.7 or so GPA by never doing the homework but acing the tests. Perfect and intense executive function wasn’t a skill set universally required for admissions back then. But the admissions have changed to essentially remove the quirky geniuses from the student population, because you are only getting into a T20 if you have the executive functioning skills of a mid-career project manager. Hence schools populated almost entirely by Tracy Flicks. Even the athletes are Tracy Flicks. It’s kind of bizarre.

This whole notion that there were all these "disorganized geniuses " in earlier years, and kids now are just well organized with the "geniuses" getting shut out is silly. Back in my day 1600 was an unheard of score. Kids who did well were likely natural test takers with parents who valued education and/or in good schools. We weren't necessarily smarter than kids who didn't score as well. You didn't find these natural Good Will Hunting " geniuses laying about. That is just nonsense. Kids these days are working hard to demonstrate their intellect, artistic talent and work ethic. And, competition is tough. It's not like the "true geniuses" are getting shut out by average bureaucrats. In fact, back in the day, a lot more spaces were going to legacy and connected. Now, kids are submitting evidence of far more course rigor than we had plus talents, etc

I knew multiple kids who got 1580 and 1600 without studying or prepping in the 1980s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it’s a real problem. You aren’t going to find a T20 that isn’t largely populated by Tracy Flicks. Sorry.

Especially nowadays given what it takes to get into a t 20. Might have been different 25 years ago

25 years ago you could get the disorganized geniuses who walked into the SATs and got 1600 without studying and who kept up a 3.7 or so GPA by never doing the homework but acing the tests. Perfect and intense executive function wasn’t a skill set universally required for admissions back then. But the admissions have changed to essentially remove the quirky geniuses from the student population, because you are only getting into a T20 if you have the executive functioning skills of a mid-career project manager. Hence schools populated almost entirely by Tracy Flicks. Even the athletes are Tracy Flicks. It’s kind of bizarre.

Plenty of those kids could right to work now and do fine with a bit of training. These top universities are not for the faint of mind.

Well, they aren’t for the brilliant kids any more either.

Like the legions of privileged white dudes were the most brilliant minds of the day, right? Because that's what the class make up was. Those sure were the days of brilliant kids.

No, of course the legacy men weren’t brilliant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it’s a real problem. You aren’t going to find a T20 that isn’t largely populated by Tracy Flicks. Sorry.

Especially nowadays given what it takes to get into a t 20. Might have been different 25 years ago

25 years ago you could get the disorganized geniuses who walked into the SATs and got 1600 without studying and who kept up a 3.7 or so GPA by never doing the homework but acing the tests. Perfect and intense executive function wasn’t a skill set universally required for admissions back then. But the admissions have changed to essentially remove the quirky geniuses from the student population, because you are only getting into a T20 if you have the executive functioning skills of a mid-career project manager. Hence schools populated almost entirely by Tracy Flicks. Even the athletes are Tracy Flicks. It’s kind of bizarre.

Plenty of those kids could right to work now and do fine with a bit of training. These top universities are not for the faint of mind.

Well, they aren’t for the brilliant kids any more either.

Like the legions of privileged white dudes were the most brilliant minds of the day, right? Because that's what the class make up was. Those sure were the days of brilliant kids.

They were white men ergo they were brilliant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, it’s a real problem. You aren’t going to find a T20 that isn’t largely populated by Tracy Flicks. Sorry.

Especially nowadays given what it takes to get into a t 20. Might have been different 25 years ago

25 years ago you could get the disorganized geniuses who walked into the SATs and got 1600 without studying and who kept up a 3.7 or so GPA by never doing the homework but acing the tests. Perfect and intense executive function wasn’t a skill set universally required for admissions back then. But the admissions have changed to essentially remove the quirky geniuses from the student population, because you are only getting into a T20 if you have the executive functioning skills of a mid-career project manager. Hence schools populated almost entirely by Tracy Flicks. Even the athletes are Tracy Flicks. It’s kind of bizarre.

This whole notion that there were all these "disorganized geniuses " in earlier years, and kids now are just well organized with the "geniuses" getting shut out is silly. Back in my day 1600 was an unheard of score. Kids who did well were likely natural test takers with parents who valued education and/or in good schools. We weren't necessarily smarter than kids who didn't score as well. You didn't find these natural Good Will Hunting " geniuses laying about. That is just nonsense. Kids these days are working hard to demonstrate their intellect, artistic talent and work ethic. And, competition is tough. It's not like the "true geniuses" are getting shut out by average bureaucrats. In fact, back in the day, a lot more spaces were going to legacy and connected. Now, kids are submitting evidence of far more course rigor than we had plus talents, etc

I knew multiple kids who got 1580 and 1600 without studying or prepping in the 1980s.

Suuuuuure. In 85-86 only 9 out of 1.7 million got a 1600, but you knew at least half of them, right? I was NM in '88. Very few scored in upper 1500s, and they had excellent preparation in their schooling and support at home. They were also excellent students for the most part. Sure I know some high scorers who didn't organize their time well at school and could have gotten better grades. I was one of them! But this whole notion of "old days" "geniuses " vs. today's "pencil pushers" is just completely bogus. Sure kids are working harder. Because the competition is tougher -- with more applicants for limited spaces.