Is Johns Hopkins still desirable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the #7 school in the only ranking that matters to the overwhelming majority of people. That alone makes JHU desirable. Based on the formulas USNWR uses, that ranking is likely to go up.

I like JHU but it struggles to win students from other schools despite whatever US News ranks it, which indicates US News isn't really that influential and the perceptions of schools that people have are fairly fixed. Obviously it loses to Harvard, MIT, and Princeton by a lot, but here's how it fairs against some other top schools:

Some of the Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 16% - Yale 84%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Columbia 81%
Johns Hopkins 41% - Dartmouth 59%
Johns Hopkins 49% - Cornell 51%

The closest Johns Hopkins gets to winning a cross-admit battle is with Cornell, otherwise it gets handily defeated. It also does quite well against Dartmouth.

Some of the Top Non-Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 15% - Stanford 85%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Duke 81%
Johns Hopkins 31% - UChicago 69%
Johns Hopkins 35% - Northwestern 65%
Johns Hopkins 44% - Rice 56%
Johns Hopkins 53% - WashU 47%
Johns Hopkins 61% - Vanderbilt 39%

It looks like Johns Hopkins is closer to schools like Rice, WashU, and Vanderbilt than the tippy-top schools like Stanford and Duke which are better than most of the Ivies anyways.

Who cares? We just got ranked #7 on US News this year so preferences won't change overnight. Of course I don't expect us to win the cross-admit battle with Yale, Stanford, or Duke, but the other schools you listed are fair game. We got the biggest donation in higher ed history from Bloomberg a few years ago the more time it has to take effect, the more cross-admits we'll win.

USNWR is influential, but there is a limit. Princeton has been ranked ahead of Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc., for quite a while now, but it doesn't seem to have made any inroads in cross-admit preferences. Harvard, despite not being at the top of USNWR or top in focus on undergraduate experience remains the number one choice among cross-admits.

+1 Stanford was ranked #6 on US News for a long time, but still only lost the cross-admit battle to Harvard. Columbia was #2 for a while on US News while MIT was around #7, but it still got destroyed by MIT in the cross-admit battle. Duke keeps getting ranked super low on US News but it wins the cross admit battle against every school except HYPSM and ties with Penn and Columbia. UChicago was even ranked higher than Penn for a while but Penn still handily wins the cross-admit battle.

MIT has become overrated by local parents and rankings that consider early career income as a large factor. Their STEM grads are not earning more than STEM grads at other elite schools. It is an excellent school but not in that Harvard and Stanford category. The "brand name" isn't the same either. MIT is associated with engineering in the same way Hopkins is associated with medicine, even though both are solid but probably not spectacular in other areas.

You're just wrong. MIT excels in far more than just engineering: it's arguably the best school for economics, biology, psychology, math, and chemistry. It's also one of the top handful of schools in physics, political science, architecture, earth sciences, marine sciences, linguistics, media studies, business, statistics, astronomy, and more. It's a phenomenal, no-BS school that attracts the best students in the world.

More to the rankings and cross-admit point, MIT is just not at the Stanford level overall. Stanford has been ranked behind MIT 5 years in a row by USNWR but still beats MIT badly cross-admit wise.

Hopkins also has a number of strong areas. MIT and Hopkins are still widely perceived as an Eng/CS school and a biological science and med-related school. Harvard and Stanford just are not like that.

It doesn't beat MIT "badly," it's often pretty close. Most years the cross-admit battle stays around 60-40 in favor of Stanford. I imagine ~5% of that is due to weather alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the #7 school in the only ranking that matters to the overwhelming majority of people. That alone makes JHU desirable. Based on the formulas USNWR uses, that ranking is likely to go up.

I like JHU but it struggles to win students from other schools despite whatever US News ranks it, which indicates US News isn't really that influential and the perceptions of schools that people have are fairly fixed. Obviously it loses to Harvard, MIT, and Princeton by a lot, but here's how it fairs against some other top schools:

Some of the Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 16% - Yale 84%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Columbia 81%
Johns Hopkins 41% - Dartmouth 59%
Johns Hopkins 49% - Cornell 51%

The closest Johns Hopkins gets to winning a cross-admit battle is with Cornell, otherwise it gets handily defeated. It also does quite well against Dartmouth.

Some of the Top Non-Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 15% - Stanford 85%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Duke 81%
Johns Hopkins 31% - UChicago 69%
Johns Hopkins 35% - Northwestern 65%
Johns Hopkins 44% - Rice 56%
Johns Hopkins 53% - WashU 47%
Johns Hopkins 61% - Vanderbilt 39%

It looks like Johns Hopkins is closer to schools like Rice, WashU, and Vanderbilt than the tippy-top schools like Stanford and Duke which are better than most of the Ivies anyways.

Who cares? We just got ranked #7 on US News this year so preferences won't change overnight. Of course I don't expect us to win the cross-admit battle with Yale, Stanford, or Duke, but the other schools you listed are fair game. We got the biggest donation in higher ed history from Bloomberg a few years ago the more time it has to take effect, the more cross-admits we'll win.

USNWR is influential, but there is a limit. Princeton has been ranked ahead of Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc., for quite a while now, but it doesn't seem to have made any inroads in cross-admit preferences. Harvard, despite not being at the top of USNWR or top in focus on undergraduate experience remains the number one choice among cross-admits.

+1 Stanford was ranked #6 on US News for a long time, but still only lost the cross-admit battle to Harvard. Columbia was #2 for a while on US News while MIT was around #7, but it still got destroyed by MIT in the cross-admit battle. Duke keeps getting ranked super low on US News but it wins the cross admit battle against every school except HYPSM and ties with Penn and Columbia. UChicago was even ranked higher than Penn for a while but Penn still handily wins the cross-admit battle.

MIT has become overrated by local parents and rankings that consider early career income as a large factor. Their STEM grads are not earning more than STEM grads at other elite schools. It is an excellent school but not in that Harvard and Stanford category. The "brand name" isn't the same either. MIT is associated with engineering in the same way Hopkins is associated with medicine, even though both are solid but probably not spectacular in other areas.

You're just wrong. MIT excels in far more than just engineering: it's arguably the best school for economics, biology, psychology, math, and chemistry. It's also one of the top handful of schools in physics, political science, architecture, earth sciences, marine sciences, linguistics, media studies, business, statistics, astronomy, and more. It's a phenomenal, no-BS school that attracts the best students in the world.

More to the rankings and cross-admit point, MIT is just not at the Stanford level overall. Stanford has been ranked behind MIT 5 years in a row by USNWR but still beats MIT badly cross-admit wise.

Hopkins also has a number of strong areas. MIT and Hopkins are still widely perceived as an Eng/CS school and a biological science and med-related school. Harvard and Stanford just are not like that.

Saying MIT is not at Stanford's level is ridiculous. The problem is Stanford is a better choice for more people who want to coast by, there's no easy way to get through MIT on the other hand. The rigor of MIT likely detracts many potential students. To me, Harvard, Stanford, and MIT make a clear triumvirate at the top.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

+1 Penn offers a bunch of crap to win cross-admits from HPSM, Yale, Duke, Columbia, Caltech. I don't think Caltech offers anything either but I could be wrong. But it definitely gets punished for that, its yield rate is below 50%.

[Anonymous]

Currently have a kid attending Hopkins and playing a sport. They absolutely love it and are having the time of their life. It was highly desirable for my kid and a perfect fit. But you do you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Agreed it's never easy to figure out what goes behind each cross-admit decision. I think the point of PP is that every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers perks or packages that could make the decision not a 1:1 choice. So you can't single out one school and not mention the others, which is seemingly all of them except HPSM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the #7 school in the only ranking that matters to the overwhelming majority of people. That alone makes JHU desirable. Based on the formulas USNWR uses, that ranking is likely to go up.

I like JHU but it struggles to win students from other schools despite whatever US News ranks it, which indicates US News isn't really that influential and the perceptions of schools that people have are fairly fixed. Obviously it loses to Harvard, MIT, and Princeton by a lot, but here's how it fairs against some other top schools:

Some of the Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 16% - Yale 84%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Columbia 81%
Johns Hopkins 41% - Dartmouth 59%
Johns Hopkins 49% - Cornell 51%

The closest Johns Hopkins gets to winning a cross-admit battle is with Cornell, otherwise it gets handily defeated. It also does quite well against Dartmouth.

Some of the Top Non-Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 15% - Stanford 85%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Duke 81%
Johns Hopkins 31% - UChicago 69%
Johns Hopkins 35% - Northwestern 65%
Johns Hopkins 44% - Rice 56%
Johns Hopkins 53% - WashU 47%
Johns Hopkins 61% - Vanderbilt 39%

It looks like Johns Hopkins is closer to schools like Rice, WashU, and Vanderbilt than the tippy-top schools like Stanford and Duke which are better than most of the Ivies anyways.

Who cares? We just got ranked #7 on US News this year so preferences won't change overnight. Of course I don't expect us to win the cross-admit battle with Yale, Stanford, or Duke, but the other schools you listed are fair game. We got the biggest donation in higher ed history from Bloomberg a few years ago the more time it has to take effect, the more cross-admits we'll win.

USNWR is influential, but there is a limit. Princeton has been ranked ahead of Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc., for quite a while now, but it doesn't seem to have made any inroads in cross-admit preferences. Harvard, despite not being at the top of USNWR or top in focus on undergraduate experience remains the number one choice among cross-admits.

+1 Stanford was ranked #6 on US News for a long time, but still only lost the cross-admit battle to Harvard. Columbia was #2 for a while on US News while MIT was around #7, but it still got destroyed by MIT in the cross-admit battle. Duke keeps getting ranked super low on US News but it wins the cross admit battle against every school except HYPSM and ties with Penn and Columbia. UChicago was even ranked higher than Penn for a while but Penn still handily wins the cross-admit battle.

MIT has become overrated by local parents and rankings that consider early career income as a large factor. Their STEM grads are not earning more than STEM grads at other elite schools. It is an excellent school but not in that Harvard and Stanford category. The "brand name" isn't the same either. MIT is associated with engineering in the same way Hopkins is associated with medicine, even though both are solid but probably not spectacular in other areas.

You're just wrong. MIT excels in far more than just engineering: it's arguably the best school for economics, biology, psychology, math, and chemistry. It's also one of the top handful of schools in physics, political science, architecture, earth sciences, marine sciences, linguistics, media studies, business, statistics, astronomy, and more. It's a phenomenal, no-BS school that attracts the best students in the world.

More to the rankings and cross-admit point, MIT is just not at the Stanford level overall. Stanford has been ranked behind MIT 5 years in a row by USNWR but still beats MIT badly cross-admit wise.

Hopkins also has a number of strong areas. MIT and Hopkins are still widely perceived as an Eng/CS school and a biological science and med-related school. Harvard and Stanford just are not like that.

Saying MIT is not at Stanford's level is ridiculous. The problem is Stanford is a better choice for more people who want to coast by, there's no easy way to get through MIT on the other hand. The rigor of MIT likely detracts many potential students. To me, Harvard, Stanford, and MIT make a clear triumvirate at the top.

At this point, MIT just can't afford to be the overall type of university that Harvard and Stanford are (or the whole HYSP group for that matter). They have a little more prestige name wise but they also have at least $7 billion more than MIT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the #7 school in the only ranking that matters to the overwhelming majority of people. That alone makes JHU desirable. Based on the formulas USNWR uses, that ranking is likely to go up.

I like JHU but it struggles to win students from other schools despite whatever US News ranks it, which indicates US News isn't really that influential and the perceptions of schools that people have are fairly fixed. Obviously it loses to Harvard, MIT, and Princeton by a lot, but here's how it fairs against some other top schools:

Some of the Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 16% - Yale 84%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Columbia 81%
Johns Hopkins 41% - Dartmouth 59%
Johns Hopkins 49% - Cornell 51%

The closest Johns Hopkins gets to winning a cross-admit battle is with Cornell, otherwise it gets handily defeated. It also does quite well against Dartmouth.

Some of the Top Non-Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 15% - Stanford 85%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Duke 81%
Johns Hopkins 31% - UChicago 69%
Johns Hopkins 35% - Northwestern 65%
Johns Hopkins 44% - Rice 56%
Johns Hopkins 53% - WashU 47%
Johns Hopkins 61% - Vanderbilt 39%

It looks like Johns Hopkins is closer to schools like Rice, WashU, and Vanderbilt than the tippy-top schools like Stanford and Duke which are better than most of the Ivies anyways.

Who cares? We just got ranked #7 on US News this year so preferences won't change overnight. Of course I don't expect us to win the cross-admit battle with Yale, Stanford, or Duke, but the other schools you listed are fair game. We got the biggest donation in higher ed history from Bloomberg a few years ago the more time it has to take effect, the more cross-admits we'll win.

USNWR is influential, but there is a limit. Princeton has been ranked ahead of Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc., for quite a while now, but it doesn't seem to have made any inroads in cross-admit preferences. Harvard, despite not being at the top of USNWR or top in focus on undergraduate experience remains the number one choice among cross-admits.

+1 Stanford was ranked #6 on US News for a long time, but still only lost the cross-admit battle to Harvard. Columbia was #2 for a while on US News while MIT was around #7, but it still got destroyed by MIT in the cross-admit battle. Duke keeps getting ranked super low on US News but it wins the cross admit battle against every school except HYPSM and ties with Penn and Columbia. UChicago was even ranked higher than Penn for a while but Penn still handily wins the cross-admit battle.

MIT has become overrated by local parents and rankings that consider early career income as a large factor. Their STEM grads are not earning more than STEM grads at other elite schools. It is an excellent school but not in that Harvard and Stanford category. The "brand name" isn't the same either. MIT is associated with engineering in the same way Hopkins is associated with medicine, even though both are solid but probably not spectacular in other areas.

You're just wrong. MIT excels in far more than just engineering: it's arguably the best school for economics, biology, psychology, math, and chemistry. It's also one of the top handful of schools in physics, political science, architecture, earth sciences, marine sciences, linguistics, media studies, business, statistics, astronomy, and more. It's a phenomenal, no-BS school that attracts the best students in the world.

More to the rankings and cross-admit point, MIT is just not at the Stanford level overall. Stanford has been ranked behind MIT 5 years in a row by USNWR but still beats MIT badly cross-admit wise.

Hopkins also has a number of strong areas. MIT and Hopkins are still widely perceived as an Eng/CS school and a biological science and med-related school. Harvard and Stanford just are not like that.

Saying MIT is not at Stanford's level is ridiculous. The problem is Stanford is a better choice for more people who want to coast by, there's no easy way to get through MIT on the other hand. The rigor of MIT likely detracts many potential students. To me, Harvard, Stanford, and MIT make a clear triumvirate at the top.

At this point, MIT just can't afford to be the overall type of university that Harvard and Stanford are (or the whole HYSP group for that matter). They have a little more prestige name wise but they also have at least $7 billion more than MIT.

If that's your logic, then wouldn't Princeton just be the best? They have more money per student than other school by far ($40B with no professional graduate schools)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

I've heard that as well about Stanford. Columbia also offers a bunch of scholars programs to its admits. I think Dartmouth is clean though, do they offer any special programs to admits?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Currently have a kid attending Hopkins and playing a sport. They absolutely love it and are having the time of their life. It was highly desirable for my kid and a perfect fit. But you do you.

That is great! Their mixed D1/3 athletic department has always struck me as an oddity. Even at the D3 level, they keep swimming out of a conference all together.

Hopkins fields strong teams in almost everything they compete in, so awesome to hear your kid is enjoying it.

Lacrosse is obviously the big sport on campus but the Hopkins Swarthmore basketball rivalry of the last 5 or so years has been exciting and is among the best in D3 (especially high-academic school wise).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

I've heard that as well about Stanford. Columbia also offers a bunch of scholars programs to its admits. I think Dartmouth is clean though, do they offer any special programs to admits?

Clean isn't a word I'd use in this context. It isn't like there is illegal backroom dealing going on at Penn and Duke!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

I've heard that as well about Stanford. Columbia also offers a bunch of scholars programs to its admits. I think Dartmouth is clean though, do they offer any special programs to admits?

Clean isn't a word I'd use in this context. It isn't like there is illegal backroom dealing going on at Penn and Duke!

Dartmouth doesn't have legacy or donation admission?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

I've heard that as well about Stanford. Columbia also offers a bunch of scholars programs to its admits. I think Dartmouth is clean though, do they offer any special programs to admits?

Clean isn't a word I'd use in this context. It isn't like there is illegal backroom dealing going on at Penn and Duke!

Dartmouth doesn't have legacy or donation admission?

We're talking about special programs for newly admitted freshmen, not that shady stuff. I think every school at this point except maybe MIT and Caltech do the donation admission/legacy stuff.