Is Johns Hopkins still desirable?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It is the #7 school in the only ranking that matters to the overwhelming majority of people. That alone makes JHU desirable. Based on the formulas USNWR uses, that ranking is likely to go up.

I like JHU but it struggles to win students from other schools despite whatever US News ranks it, which indicates US News isn't really that influential and the perceptions of schools that people have are fairly fixed. Obviously it loses to Harvard, MIT, and Princeton by a lot, but here's how it fairs against some other top schools:

Some of the Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 16% - Yale 84%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Columbia 81%
Johns Hopkins 41% - Dartmouth 59%
Johns Hopkins 49% - Cornell 51%

The closest Johns Hopkins gets to winning a cross-admit battle is with Cornell, otherwise it gets handily defeated. It also does quite well against Dartmouth.

Some of the Top Non-Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 15% - Stanford 85%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Duke 81%
Johns Hopkins 31% - UChicago 69%
Johns Hopkins 35% - Northwestern 65%
Johns Hopkins 44% - Rice 56%
Johns Hopkins 53% - WashU 47%
Johns Hopkins 61% - Vanderbilt 39%

It looks like Johns Hopkins is closer to schools like Rice, WashU, and Vanderbilt than the tippy-top schools like Stanford and Duke which are better than most of the Ivies anyways.

Who cares? We just got ranked #7 on US News this year so preferences won't change overnight. Of course I don't expect us to win the cross-admit battle with Yale, Stanford, or Duke, but the other schools you listed are fair game. We got the biggest donation in higher ed history from Bloomberg a few years ago the more time it has to take effect, the more cross-admits we'll win.

USNWR is influential, but there is a limit. Princeton has been ranked ahead of Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc., for quite a while now, but it doesn't seem to have made any inroads in cross-admit preferences. Harvard, despite not being at the top of USNWR or top in focus on undergraduate experience remains the number one choice among cross-admits.

+1 Stanford was ranked #6 on US News for a long time, but still only lost the cross-admit battle to Harvard. Columbia was #2 for a while on US News while MIT was around #7, but it still got destroyed by MIT in the cross-admit battle. Duke keeps getting ranked super low on US News but it wins the cross admit battle against every school except HYPSM and ties with Penn and Columbia. UChicago was even ranked higher than Penn for a while but Penn still handily wins the cross-admit battle.

MIT has become overrated by local parents and rankings that consider early career income as a large factor. Their STEM grads are not earning more than STEM grads at other elite schools. It is an excellent school but not in that Harvard and Stanford category. The "brand name" isn't the same either. MIT is associated with engineering in the same way Hopkins is associated with medicine, even though both are solid but probably not spectacular in other areas.

You're just wrong. MIT excels in far more than just engineering: it's arguably the best school for economics, biology, psychology, math, and chemistry. It's also one of the top handful of schools in physics, political science, architecture, earth sciences, marine sciences, linguistics, media studies, business, statistics, astronomy, and more. It's a phenomenal, no-BS school that attracts the best students in the world.

More to the rankings and cross-admit point, MIT is just not at the Stanford level overall. Stanford has been ranked behind MIT 5 years in a row by USNWR but still beats MIT badly cross-admit wise.

Hopkins also has a number of strong areas. MIT and Hopkins are still widely perceived as an Eng/CS school and a biological science and med-related school. Harvard and Stanford just are not like that.

Saying MIT is not at Stanford's level is ridiculous. The problem is Stanford is a better choice for more people who want to coast by, there's no easy way to get through MIT on the other hand. The rigor of MIT likely detracts many potential students. To me, Harvard, Stanford, and MIT make a clear triumvirate at the top.

But nobody asked you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It is the #7 school in the only ranking that matters to the overwhelming majority of people. That alone makes JHU desirable. Based on the formulas USNWR uses, that ranking is likely to go up.

I like JHU but it struggles to win students from other schools despite whatever US News ranks it, which indicates US News isn't really that influential and the perceptions of schools that people have are fairly fixed. Obviously it loses to Harvard, MIT, and Princeton by a lot, but here's how it fairs against some other top schools:

Some of the Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 16% - Yale 84%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Columbia 81%
Johns Hopkins 41% - Dartmouth 59%
Johns Hopkins 49% - Cornell 51%

The closest Johns Hopkins gets to winning a cross-admit battle is with Cornell, otherwise it gets handily defeated. It also does quite well against Dartmouth.

Some of the Top Non-Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 15% - Stanford 85%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Duke 81%
Johns Hopkins 31% - UChicago 69%
Johns Hopkins 35% - Northwestern 65%
Johns Hopkins 44% - Rice 56%
Johns Hopkins 53% - WashU 47%
Johns Hopkins 61% - Vanderbilt 39%

It looks like Johns Hopkins is closer to schools like Rice, WashU, and Vanderbilt than the tippy-top schools like Stanford and Duke which are better than most of the Ivies anyways.

Who cares? We just got ranked #7 on US News this year so preferences won't change overnight. Of course I don't expect us to win the cross-admit battle with Yale, Stanford, or Duke, but the other schools you listed are fair game. We got the biggest donation in higher ed history from Bloomberg a few years ago the more time it has to take effect, the more cross-admits we'll win.

USNWR is influential, but there is a limit. Princeton has been ranked ahead of Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc., for quite a while now, but it doesn't seem to have made any inroads in cross-admit preferences. Harvard, despite not being at the top of USNWR or top in focus on undergraduate experience remains the number one choice among cross-admits.

+1 Stanford was ranked #6 on US News for a long time, but still only lost the cross-admit battle to Harvard. Columbia was #2 for a while on US News while MIT was around #7, but it still got destroyed by MIT in the cross-admit battle. Duke keeps getting ranked super low on US News but it wins the cross admit battle against every school except HYPSM and ties with Penn and Columbia. UChicago was even ranked higher than Penn for a while but Penn still handily wins the cross-admit battle.

MIT has become overrated by local parents and rankings that consider early career income as a large factor. Their STEM grads are not earning more than STEM grads at other elite schools. It is an excellent school but not in that Harvard and Stanford category. The "brand name" isn't the same either. MIT is associated with engineering in the same way Hopkins is associated with medicine, even though both are solid but probably not spectacular in other areas.

You're just wrong. MIT excels in far more than just engineering: it's arguably the best school for economics, biology, psychology, math, and chemistry. It's also one of the top handful of schools in physics, political science, architecture, earth sciences, marine sciences, linguistics, media studies, business, statistics, astronomy, and more. It's a phenomenal, no-BS school that attracts the best students in the world.

More to the rankings and cross-admit point, MIT is just not at the Stanford level overall. Stanford has been ranked behind MIT 5 years in a row by USNWR but still beats MIT badly cross-admit wise.

Hopkins also has a number of strong areas. MIT and Hopkins are still widely perceived as an Eng/CS school and a biological science and med-related school. Harvard and Stanford just are not like that.

Saying MIT is not at Stanford's level is ridiculous. The problem is Stanford is a better choice for more people who want to coast by, there's no easy way to get through MIT on the other hand. The rigor of MIT likely detracts many potential students. To me, Harvard, Stanford, and MIT make a clear triumvirate at the top.

But nobody asked you.

Nobody asked you either

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Currently have a kid attending Hopkins and playing a sport. They absolutely love it and are having the time of their life. It was highly desirable for my kid and a perfect fit. But you do you.

That is great! Their mixed D1/3 athletic department has always struck me as an oddity. Even at the D3 level, they keep swimming out of a conference all together.

Hopkins fields strong teams in almost everything they compete in, so awesome to hear your kid is enjoying it.

Lacrosse is obviously the big sport on campus but the Hopkins Swarthmore basketball rivalry of the last 5 or so years has been exciting and is among the best in D3 (especially high-academic school wise).

I loved going to Hopkins basketball games as an undergrad because the kids on the team were my friends Also, let’s not forgot Hopkins basketball alum Andy Enfield is currently the head basketball coach at USC.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read the thread, but for the foreseeable future, well-known universities associated with extremely well-funded research departments will only increase in academic stature. People might not like Johns Hopkins for various frivolous reasons, but it's expanding and wealthy and only going to get better known.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It is the #7 school in the only ranking that matters to the overwhelming majority of people. That alone makes JHU desirable. Based on the formulas USNWR uses, that ranking is likely to go up.

I like JHU but it struggles to win students from other schools despite whatever US News ranks it, which indicates US News isn't really that influential and the perceptions of schools that people have are fairly fixed. Obviously it loses to Harvard, MIT, and Princeton by a lot, but here's how it fairs against some other top schools:

Some of the Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 16% - Yale 84%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Columbia 81%
Johns Hopkins 41% - Dartmouth 59%
Johns Hopkins 49% - Cornell 51%

The closest Johns Hopkins gets to winning a cross-admit battle is with Cornell, otherwise it gets handily defeated. It also does quite well against Dartmouth.

Some of the Top Non-Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 15% - Stanford 85%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Duke 81%
Johns Hopkins 31% - UChicago 69%
Johns Hopkins 35% - Northwestern 65%
Johns Hopkins 44% - Rice 56%
Johns Hopkins 53% - WashU 47%
Johns Hopkins 61% - Vanderbilt 39%

It looks like Johns Hopkins is closer to schools like Rice, WashU, and Vanderbilt than the tippy-top schools like Stanford and Duke which are better than most of the Ivies anyways.

Who cares? We just got ranked #7 on US News this year so preferences won't change overnight. Of course I don't expect us to win the cross-admit battle with Yale, Stanford, or Duke, but the other schools you listed are fair game. We got the biggest donation in higher ed history from Bloomberg a few years ago the more time it has to take effect, the more cross-admits we'll win.

USNWR is influential, but there is a limit. Princeton has been ranked ahead of Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc., for quite a while now, but it doesn't seem to have made any inroads in cross-admit preferences. Harvard, despite not being at the top of USNWR or top in focus on undergraduate experience remains the number one choice among cross-admits.

+1 Stanford was ranked #6 on US News for a long time, but still only lost the cross-admit battle to Harvard. Columbia was #2 for a while on US News while MIT was around #7, but it still got destroyed by MIT in the cross-admit battle. Duke keeps getting ranked super low on US News but it wins the cross admit battle against every school except HYPSM and ties with Penn and Columbia. UChicago was even ranked higher than Penn for a while but Penn still handily wins the cross-admit battle.

MIT has become overrated by local parents and rankings that consider early career income as a large factor. Their STEM grads are not earning more than STEM grads at other elite schools. It is an excellent school but not in that Harvard and Stanford category. The "brand name" isn't the same either. MIT is associated with engineering in the same way Hopkins is associated with medicine, even though both are solid but probably not spectacular in other areas.

You're just wrong. MIT excels in far more than just engineering: it's arguably the best school for economics, biology, psychology, math, and chemistry. It's also one of the top handful of schools in physics, political science, architecture, earth sciences, marine sciences, linguistics, media studies, business, statistics, astronomy, and more. It's a phenomenal, no-BS school that attracts the best students in the world.

More to the rankings and cross-admit point, MIT is just not at the Stanford level overall. Stanford has been ranked behind MIT 5 years in a row by USNWR but still beats MIT badly cross-admit wise.

Hopkins also has a number of strong areas. MIT and Hopkins are still widely perceived as an Eng/CS school and a biological science and med-related school. Harvard and Stanford just are not like that.

Saying MIT is not at Stanford's level is ridiculous. The problem is Stanford is a better choice for more people who want to coast by, there's no easy way to get through MIT on the other hand. The rigor of MIT likely detracts many potential students. To me, Harvard, Stanford, and MIT make a clear triumvirate at the top.

At this point, MIT just can't afford to be the overall type of university that Harvard and Stanford are (or the whole HYSP group for that matter). They have a little more prestige name wise but they also have at least $7 billion more than MIT.

If that's your logic, then wouldn't Princeton just be the best? They have more money per student than other school by far ($40B with no professional graduate schools)

That makes sense. Lots of students that could make it through HYS would struggle to hack it at MIT or Princeton.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the #7 school in the only ranking that matters to the overwhelming majority of people. That alone makes JHU desirable. Based on the formulas USNWR uses, that ranking is likely to go up.

I like JHU but it struggles to win students from other schools despite whatever US News ranks it, which indicates US News isn't really that influential and the perceptions of schools that people have are fairly fixed. Obviously it loses to Harvard, MIT, and Princeton by a lot, but here's how it fairs against some other top schools:

Some of the Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 16% - Yale 84%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Columbia 81%
Johns Hopkins 41% - Dartmouth 59%
Johns Hopkins 49% - Cornell 51%

The closest Johns Hopkins gets to winning a cross-admit battle is with Cornell, otherwise it gets handily defeated. It also does quite well against Dartmouth.

Some of the Top Non-Ivy League

Johns Hopkins 15% - Stanford 85%
Johns Hopkins 19% - Duke 81%
Johns Hopkins 31% - UChicago 69%
Johns Hopkins 35% - Northwestern 65%
Johns Hopkins 44% - Rice 56%
Johns Hopkins 53% - WashU 47%
Johns Hopkins 61% - Vanderbilt 39%

It looks like Johns Hopkins is closer to schools like Rice, WashU, and Vanderbilt than the tippy-top schools like Stanford and Duke which are better than most of the Ivies anyways.

Who cares? We just got ranked #7 on US News this year so preferences won't change overnight. Of course I don't expect us to win the cross-admit battle with Yale, Stanford, or Duke, but the other schools you listed are fair game. We got the biggest donation in higher ed history from Bloomberg a few years ago the more time it has to take effect, the more cross-admits we'll win.

USNWR is influential, but there is a limit. Princeton has been ranked ahead of Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc., for quite a while now, but it doesn't seem to have made any inroads in cross-admit preferences. Harvard, despite not being at the top of USNWR or top in focus on undergraduate experience remains the number one choice among cross-admits.

+1 Stanford was ranked #6 on US News for a long time, but still only lost the cross-admit battle to Harvard. Columbia was #2 for a while on US News while MIT was around #7, but it still got destroyed by MIT in the cross-admit battle. Duke keeps getting ranked super low on US News but it wins the cross admit battle against every school except HYPSM and ties with Penn and Columbia. UChicago was even ranked higher than Penn for a while but Penn still handily wins the cross-admit battle.

MIT has become overrated by local parents and rankings that consider early career income as a large factor. Their STEM grads are not earning more than STEM grads at other elite schools. It is an excellent school but not in that Harvard and Stanford category. The "brand name" isn't the same either. MIT is associated with engineering in the same way Hopkins is associated with medicine, even though both are solid but probably not spectacular in other areas.

You're just wrong. MIT excels in far more than just engineering: it's arguably the best school for economics, biology, psychology, math, and chemistry. It's also one of the top handful of schools in physics, political science, architecture, earth sciences, marine sciences, linguistics, media studies, business, statistics, astronomy, and more. It's a phenomenal, no-BS school that attracts the best students in the world.

More to the rankings and cross-admit point, MIT is just not at the Stanford level overall. Stanford has been ranked behind MIT 5 years in a row by USNWR but still beats MIT badly cross-admit wise.

Hopkins also has a number of strong areas. MIT and Hopkins are still widely perceived as an Eng/CS school and a biological science and med-related school. Harvard and Stanford just are not like that.

Saying MIT is not at Stanford's level is ridiculous. The problem is Stanford is a better choice for more people who want to coast by, there's no easy way to get through MIT on the other hand. The rigor of MIT likely detracts many potential students. To me, Harvard, Stanford, and MIT make a clear triumvirate at the top.

But nobody asked you.

This is exactly why this board is worthless.

[Anonymous]

Once acceptances are out, the balance of power negotiation wise changes quite a bit. I've heard of Harvard and Stanford being willing to play ball (especially with cross admits). Many schools have merit programs but they will also have financial aid take a look at things again in terms of need too if you really want to make it work and an award is a little higher elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Have you been to Baltimore in the last 5-10 years. SCARY! It's the most rundown, drug laden, crime ridden place in the world. You can NOT cross an intersection without some druggie try to sit on your car, knock on your window or just plan wandering around the road. I literally run every red light so I do not have to stop for 5 seconds in B'more.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student!

Agreed. It would be great to know about the crossover and head-to-head results on more of these large merit offers!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student!

I'm pretty sure Yale beats Princeton in cross-admits. You'd think Princeton would benefit from the STEM shift, but it shot its own foot with grade deflation which scared off a lot of pre-med/pre-law students that need to maintain a high GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Once acceptances are out, the balance of power negotiation wise changes quite a bit. I've heard of Harvard and Stanford being willing to play ball (especially with cross admits). Many schools have merit programs but they will also have financial aid take a look at things again in terms of need too if you really want to make it work and an award is a little higher elsewhere.

OK, this is a complete word salad. Let's get real people...how many of you on this board have a kid been, in or going to one of these schools. If not shut your mouth, your input is worthless. Yes, JHU is still an amazing university, your kid would be honored to be accepted and attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Currently have a kid attending Hopkins and playing a sport. They absolutely love it and are having the time of their life. It was highly desirable for my kid and a perfect fit. But you do you.

That is great! Their mixed D1/3 athletic department has always struck me as an oddity. Even at the D3 level, they keep swimming out of a conference all together.

Hopkins fields strong teams in almost everything they compete in, so awesome to hear your kid is enjoying it.

Lacrosse is obviously the big sport on campus but the Hopkins Swarthmore basketball rivalry of the last 5 or so years has been exciting and is among the best in D3 (especially high-academic school wise).

My kid is playing a D3 sport and it is confusing bc sports folks assume it's D1 and there was money involved. Don't I wish. Some of the conference rivals are great, there is also seems to a fair amount of teams supporting each other at games/meets when they can. I understand the unease with Baltimore but kid rarely leaves the immediate area and if they do it's usually with friends in an Uber bc there's plenty to do in Baltimore.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Seems very overranked.

+1

You can believe that it is overrated but the fact of the matter is that US News, which publishes by far the most important ranking in terms of reach, has ranked Hopkins as a top 10 school in each of the last 5 years. They also received a great $1.8 billion donation from Bloomberg specifically for financial aid. His gifts of over $3.5 billion have been a game changer and make the future look very bright there since it is unlikely he won't pledge even more money to his alma mater.

“Important?”

You seem quite status conscious. USNWR has no idea what schools are best for MY child.

But if you want to outsource that call, go ahead and take the shortcut that might impress other parents.

My kid and I were willing to put in the time and research to identify schools tailored ton HER.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cross admit data is also skewed in many cases though. Duke, for example, throws a lot of non-need based money at a subset of students. It isn't always just choosing Duke over Penn or Yale, for example, it is choosing Duke with a large financial award.

Every school except for Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and Princeton offers those things though. Online it says Duke offers about 75 scholarships a year. Penn, on the other hand, admits over 100 dual-degree students in programs like Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, Hunstman, etc. which are meant to take away kids from other top schools. On top of that each year Penn provides over 100 offers of admission to its scholar programs such as Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. So if anything, Penn does more of that skewing than Duke, and many of these dual degree students and scholarship program students at Penn would not have chosen Penn otherwise. Even Yale just a few years ago started the Hahn Scholars Program to enroll more of the top STEM kids because it was losing too many of them to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton.

Aren't these two posts just describing why we need more info on the cross admit choices? I'm not sure why the 2nd poster got fired up and took things as a big attack against Duke . The Duke crowd on DCUM gets defensive quickly.

Me and my kid have no ties to Duke, I was just pointing out that basically every school tries to sweeten the deal for a lot of their admits. We have looked strongly at Penn and we recognize they offer a lot beyond standard admission to the school.

+1 Other schools, especially Penn, do more of that scholarship and special programs crap than Duke. But really all of them try to pull kids in through their own means. I've heard that although Stanford's official policy is they only match need based aid, they care so much about their yield that they'll often match merit aid at other top schools so they don't lose more students.

It's not a bad thing that these schools have these programs, they have every right to fight for the best students. Yale, Duke, Penn, and Columbia all offer these special programs to win students from Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Princeton, because they all share so many cross-admits and the former 4 lose a lot to the latter 4. Beyond that, they also use these programs to win students from each other: Penn might offer a spot in Jerome Fisher M&T to a top student in the country at the same time that Duke offers an AB Scholarship while Columbia offers an Egleston Scholarship. All I know is that would be a really tough choice for the student!

I'm pretty sure Yale beats Princeton in cross-admits. You'd think Princeton would benefit from the STEM shift, but it shot its own foot with grade deflation which scared off a lot of pre-med/pre-law students that need to maintain a high GPA.

Princeton's departments are generally much better in STEM, but Yale has the humanities edge and it attracts many of the top history, english, and political science majors. I think Yale has also done better marketing around it being a "happier" place, and it pushes itself as a liberal haven (no pun intended). But Yale is still feeling the struggle in attracting STEM students which is why it started the Hahn Scholars Program. I get the sense Princeton is very secure in what it offers so it probably won't create a program like that - it attracts students who are up for a rigorous education.