Are the NESCACs worth the money?

[Anonymous]

Just to be clear: There are multiple posters responding to comments about Emory. I provided the link to Emory Scholars which I also noted was not a secure website.

It was a Williams College & NESCAC supporter who introduced Emory University in this thread (presumably because the Wall Street Journal/Times Higher Education 2022 college ranking ranks Emory University at #20 and ranks Williams College a bit lower at #23.

I am well aware of the stature of Williams College as well of that of Emory University.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Emory anyone's first choice?

https://college.emory.edu/scholars/

Ahh...so if they pay people to go there, Emory is a first choice. Got it.

In some cases. But, many students target schools which offer significant merit scholarship money as a first choice school.

A school like Emory will do that because it doesn't have the cache to attract those students otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: “If, however, you are of the ilk who think Williams is superior to Emory, so much so that even comparing the two is silly (let alone ranking Williams lower), then the NESCAC’s, even the lower NESCAC’s, are indeed for you. This isn’t really a discussion issue: these are two different types of people. You know who you are, and that won’t change”

I ❤️ You

-SLAC grad

Although I prefer National Universities, I do understand the attraction to SLACs.

I do not want to be impolite, but the writing above is unfair and suggests that the writer probably does not have an experienced understanding of an elite National University undergraduate education.

To many, LACs and SLACs are an advanced continuation of high school / prep school. Nothing wrong with this. Rural, isolated LACs delay entry into the real world while providing a somewhat insulated learning experience. Understandable why many parents would want this for their children / students. However, the LAC experience is romanticized easily because it is simple to understand a small campus, daily contact with professors and--sometimes--administrators, easy, convenient administrative matters, familiar faces all around. Gets old after a year or so. Especially so regarding the social scene.

While Williams College is arguably the greatest LAC in the country--and deservedly so-- Emory University is a well respected elite National University. Two different arenas. Their is no comparison as to which educational institution contributes more to the world through research and scholarly publications.

There is no doubt that the students at each school are outstanding. Different stages, however. Different leagues.

Emory is a much larger institution than Williams so not an apples to apples comparison and most of their publications come from the graduate division

Emorys research is number 17 in the country. That's more than almost all public schools which are much larger. Also if you compare alumni Emory also wins. How many past or present ceos does Williams have.

Presumably this thread is about undergrad education.

Per US News, Williams is #32 for undergrad research. Emory is not in the top 100.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/undergrad-research-programs

I’m not sure what the claim that “Emory research is number 17 in the country” is supposed to mean. The nearest thing I could find is that Emory ranks 18th in National Institutes of Health funding, which is a very different statistic.

https://news.emory.edu/stories/2021/02/blueridge_research_funding_rankings/index.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Emory anyone's first choice?

https://college.emory.edu/scholars/

Ahh...so if they pay people to go there, Emory is a first choice. Got it.

In some cases. But, many students target schools which offer significant merit scholarship money as a first choice school.

A school like Emory will do that because it doesn't have the cache to attract those students otherwise.

Merit scholarship awards are often given to attract students accepted to higher ranked schools. If it helps: Emory University reports its application overlap schools as: Duke, Johns Hopkins, Univ. of Pennsylvania, Vanderbilt, WashUStL, and Georgetown.

Williams College reports its overlap schools as: Amherst, Brown, Dartmouth, Harvard, Yale, Middlebury, Princeton, and Stanford.

I think that it is fair to assert that Emory University could be the #1 choice for a student who applied Emory and its 6 overlap schools.

I do not think that is the case with respect to Williams College--which I regard as an outstanding school--and its 8 overlap schools. I doubt that a student accepted to Williams and to any of Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, or Yale is likely to enroll at Williams. And none of Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Brown,or Yale report Williams College as an overlap school. Of course, it could and probably does occur on rare occasions. I think that Amherst, Dartmouth,and Middlebury are true overlap schools for those who apply to Williams College, therefore, Williams College could reasonably be a first choice school for one who applies to Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, and--possibbly--Dartmouth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Emory anyone's first choice?

I think that it is fair to assert that Emory University could be the #1 choice for a student who applied Emory and its 6 overlap schools.

I do not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Emory anyone's first choice?

https://college.emory.edu/scholars/

Ahh...so if they pay people to go there, Emory is a first choice. Got it.

In some cases. But, many students target schools which offer significant merit scholarship money as a first choice school.

A school like Emory will do that because it doesn't have the cache to attract those students otherwise.

Merit scholarship awards are often given to attract students accepted to higher ranked schools. If it helps: Emory University reports its application overlap schools as: Duke, Johns Hopkins, Univ. of Pennsylvania, Vanderbilt, WashUStL, and Georgetown.

Williams College reports its overlap schools as: Amherst, Brown, Dartmouth, Harvard, Yale, Middlebury, Princeton, and Stanford.

I think that it is fair to assert that Emory University could be the #1 choice for a student who applied Emory and its 6 overlap schools.

I do not think that is the case with respect to Williams College--which I regard as an outstanding school--and its 8 overlap schools. I doubt that a student accepted to Williams and to any of Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, or Yale is likely to enroll at Williams. And none of Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Brown,or Yale report Williams College as an overlap school. Of course, it could and probably does occur on rare occasions. I think that Amherst, Dartmouth,and Middlebury are true overlap schools for those who apply to Williams College, therefore, Williams College could reasonably be a first choice school for one who applies to Williams, Amherst, Middlebury, and--possibbly--Dartmouth.

Citation please.

You don't know this for a fact. It isn't a fact. Your "doubt" is your own opinion about the relative merits of the overlap schools.

[Anonymous]

https://www.collegeevaluator.com/rankings/highest-admission-yield/

Williams yield: #28, 52% yield (9% acceptance rate)
Emory yield: #92, 34% yield (13% acceptance rate)

Williams is more of a "first choice" than Emory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.collegeevaluator.com/rankings/highest-admission-yield/

Williams yield: #28, 52% yield (9% acceptance rate)
Emory yield: #92, 34% yield (13% acceptance rate)

Williams is more of a "first choice" than Emory.

Great information, but I think that you may have missed the point of my earlier post.

My earlier post focused just on the schools that Williams College listed as its overlap schools. If you think that 52% of those accepted to Williams and any of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford are selectig Williams,you are engaging in wishful thinking--not reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: “If, however, you are of the ilk who think Williams is superior to Emory, so much so that even comparing the two is silly (let alone ranking Williams lower), then the NESCAC’s, even the lower NESCAC’s, are indeed for you. This isn’t really a discussion issue: these are two different types of people. You know who you are, and that won’t change”

I ❤️ You

-SLAC grad

Although I prefer National Universities, I do understand the attraction to SLACs.

I do not want to be impolite, but the writing above is unfair and suggests that the writer probably does not have an experienced understanding of an elite National University undergraduate education.

To many, LACs and SLACs are an advanced continuation of high school / prep school. Nothing wrong with this. Rural, isolated LACs delay entry into the real world while providing a somewhat insulated learning experience. Understandable why many parents would want this for their children / students. However, the LAC experience is romanticized easily because it is simple to understand a small campus, daily contact with professors and--sometimes--administrators, easy, convenient administrative matters, familiar faces all around. Gets old after a year or so. Especially so regarding the social scene.

While Williams College is arguably the greatest LAC in the country--and deservedly so-- Emory University is a well respected elite National University. Two different arenas. Their is no comparison as to which educational institution contributes more to the world through research and scholarly publications.

There is no doubt that the students at each school are outstanding. Different stages, however. Different leagues.

Emory is a much larger institution than Williams so not an apples to apples comparison and most of their publications come from the graduate division

Emorys research is number 17 in the country. That's more than almost all public schools which are much larger. Also if you compare alumni Emory also wins. How many past or present ceos does Williams have.

Number of CEOs? Really?! You have a warped sense of priority

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: “If, however, you are of the ilk who think Williams is superior to Emory, so much so that even comparing the two is silly (let alone ranking Williams lower), then the NESCAC’s, even the lower NESCAC’s, are indeed for you. This isn’t really a discussion issue: these are two different types of people. You know who you are, and that won’t change”

I ❤️ You

-SLAC grad

Although I prefer National Universities, I do understand the attraction to SLACs.

I do not want to be impolite, but the writing above is unfair and suggests that the writer probably does not have an experienced understanding of an elite National University undergraduate education.

To many, LACs and SLACs are an advanced continuation of high school / prep school. Nothing wrong with this. Rural, isolated LACs delay entry into the real world while providing a somewhat insulated learning experience. Understandable why many parents would want this for their children / students. However, the LAC experience is romanticized easily because it is simple to understand a small campus, daily contact with professors and--sometimes--administrators, easy, convenient administrative matters, familiar faces all around. Gets old after a year or so. Especially so regarding the social scene.

While Williams College is arguably the greatest LAC in the country--and deservedly so-- Emory University is a well respected elite National University. Two different arenas. Their is no comparison as to which educational institution contributes more to the world through research and scholarly publications.

There is no doubt that the students at each school are outstanding. Different stages, however. Different leagues.

Emory is a much larger institution than Williams so not an apples to apples comparison and most of their publications come from the graduate division

Emorys research is number 17 in the country. That's more than almost all public schools which are much larger. Also if you compare alumni Emory also wins. How many past or present ceos does Williams have.

Number of CEOs? Really?! You have a warped sense of priority

They also could not be more wrong, as a PP shows with the link to all the esteemed Williams alumni. But that poster won’t respond to that of course.

[Anonymous]

There have been studies done regarding "cross-admits" and on college bound high school students preferences.
You can research the Parchment cross admit data on your own.

One other researcher on another website (Quora) shared a study--now dated--from 2004 of the preferences of college bound high school students. Again, this study is dated 2004 so take it as you like.

The college preferences of high school students:

1) Harvard
2) Yale
3) Stanford
4) Caltech
5) MIT
6) Princeton
7) Brown
8) Columbia
9) Amherst College
10) Dartmouth College
11) Wellesley College
12) Univ. of Penn.
13) Notre Dame
14) Swarthmore College
15) Cornell
16) Georgetown
17) Rice
18) Williams College
19) Duke
20) Virginia
21) Northwestern
22) Pomona College
23) UCal-Berkeley
24) Georgia Tech
25) Middlebury College
26) Wesleyan University
27) Univ. of Chicago
28) Johns Hopkins

Williams College is listed at #18. This is interesting because during this time period Williams College was consistently ranked at #1 or #2 Best LAC by US News.

I realize that this is not the same as an actual cross-admit preference data study, but it might be helpful to some.

Among LACS, #9 Amherst College was the top ranked preference followed by Wellesley College, then Swarthmore College, then Williams, Pomona, & Middlebury.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.collegeevaluator.com/rankings/highest-admission-yield/

Williams yield: #28, 52% yield (9% acceptance rate)
Emory yield: #92, 34% yield (13% acceptance rate)

Williams is more of a "first choice" than Emory.

Great information, but I think that you may have missed the point of my earlier post.

My earlier post focused just on the schools that Williams College listed as its overlap schools. If you think that 52% of those accepted to Williams and any of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford are selectig Williams,you are engaging in wishful thinking--not reality.

And yet the yield numbers suggest that a Willliams admit making that choice with respect to its overlap schools is significantly more likely than an Emory admit choosing Emory over its respective overlap schools (which are themselves less selective than the Williams overlap schools).

[Anonymous]

As I noted earlier in this thread, there are multiple posters who have raised the comparison between Williams & Emory & CEOs & research ranking. I am not that (or those) poster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Emory anyone's first choice?

https://college.emory.edu/scholars/

Ahh...so if they pay people to go there, Emory is a first choice. Got it.

Don't understand why PP posted the Emory scholars link as it didn't make sense to the initial question. Either way 55% of Emory students are ED so those students clearly has it as their first choice. Same as Williams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Emory anyone's first choice?

https://college.emory.edu/scholars/

Ahh...so if they pay people to go there, Emory is a first choice. Got it.

In some cases. But, many students target schools which offer significant merit scholarship money as a first choice school.

A school like Emory will do that because it doesn't have the cache to attract those students otherwise.

You're an idiot, only 10% of Emory students have scholarships. Those scholarships are for HYP level students not Williams.