Everything you know about obesity is wrong.

[Anonymous]

While I think subsidizing healthy food is good, it will not make much of a dent in the hesitant epidemic. Portion control is free and you don’t see overweight people doing this.

Just look at which foods kids choose when given the option. Every class party, the donuts get eaten in five seconds while the apple slices or bags of carrots get left behind. Adults are no different. Adults are choosing to eat crap because it tastes good, is satisfying, and gives them pleasure. They aren’t controlling their portions because they aren’t eating to address hunger.

With inflation now, I’ve noticed that the fresher healthy food IS cheaper than the nutrition less, high calorie, processed snack food. A large bag of apples was 2.99 while a bag of cookies Oreo, Nilla wafers and all the rest of the brands were 4.59 or more. A dozen eggs were $3 while the cheapest on sale cereal was 3.99. Yet people who can afford it and probably a lot who can’t are still buying cookies and cereal.

There was an article a while back on why lower income families give in to kids asking for junk food more than UMC parents. The researchers discovered that since the lower income parents couldn’t afford other rewards/gifts like toys or experiences they used junk food as something they could afford to make their kids happy.

Food companies sell products that people buy. They have focus groups and adding sweetener wins, so they make this. During the lockdowns, the cookie and chip aisle was bare while the kale chips still didn’t move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The part about the author’s mother killed me. My mom always wore black pants growing up, she had probably three pairs and never wore other colors. I’ve never even seen her in a bathing suit. Swimming was just not a thing she would do. She didn’t like pictures and I have few of them with her. My mom is such a beautiful person and she always cared about her makeup and hair, but her weight was such a central part of her life that it took away from living it.

This spoke to me too. My mother was obsessed with her weight and it left me and my sister with seriously disordered eating habits. My mother called me "Little Chubby" as a child, presumably to humiliate me so that I would lose weight, and of course, I obliged. I began counting calories at age 12 and have never been able to stop. I became anorexic and bulimic at age 16 and have struggled to eat normally my whole life. Family dinners were a nightmare - my parents always commented on whether or not we were eating too much, and acted like having seconds was a moral failing.

My father is a pediatrician who - wait for it - views fat people as disgusting, lazy, and out-of-control. He's retired now, but I have no doubt he told every single overweight child who came into his office (and probably their parents, too) to lose weight. He can't go anywhere without commenting on people's weight, especially women's: "The woman sitting next to me on the plane was so fat, I barely had any room."

I feel sorry for him and his inability to see beyond people's appearance and treat them with dignity and respect. I call him out every time he makes a remark about someone's weight, but it doesn't make any difference (he's 85). I have done my best to model healthy eating habits for my kids, to show them that good-quality, well-prepared food is something to be savored and enjoyed. I never talk about calories or weight - I talk about "healthy." I don't want their self-esteem linked in any way to their eating habits or weight.

If you saw me, you'd see a normal weight (but not skinny) woman and would probably never imagine the mental energy I expend on whether or not I'm overweight. Our culture's obsession with size is shitty for everyone. I always wonder whether my life would have been a lot different if my mother hadn't called me "chubby" and my father hadn't been harshly critical of fat people.

The bolded is so important and why I push back on the idea that fat shaming is beneficial by fostering eating habits centered around fear of getting fat. I've previously written about this issue in this forum and won't repeat the details of my struggle. The short story is that I was a thin to a borderline emaciated young person whose entire existence became wrapped up in being thin. Nothing was healthy about my eating habits. I restricted my food intake because of my fear of being fat through a mindset that was grounded in self-loathing.

No one should be guided or inspired by fear of getting fat. Instead, healthy eating, activity, and sleeping habits should be touted as cornerstones of happy lives. On a societal level, we should consider as many measures as possible that will make it easier for people to eat more healthfully, move more, and get enough sleep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aside from the shaming aspect, we aren't giving enough attention to the fact that metabolism decreases with weight loss. Maintaining can be harder than losing and once you lose the first time you will never be at the same level as a naturally thin person. I once lost a significant amount of weight and maintaining it (which I did for two years) was harder than losing it. I was working out 2+ hours a day and eating around 1,000 calories. When I got pregnant with my first I gained a lot of it back, and the rest of it back when I was pregnant for my second (which also required bed rest). I've done weight watchers since and lost nothing. I still work out. I am significantly overweight.

The shaming is very real, too. Both DH and I have larger families. Our babies were born normal weight but gained weight quickly even EBF. Both of my kids had their weight flagged as problematic from about 3 months on... They already hate doctors.

Were you overweight as a child? It changes your physiology when you are fat as a child and makes it virtually impossible to be a normal weight adult. Stopping obesity before it starts is the only way to combat it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While I think subsidizing healthy food is good, it will not make much of a dent in the hesitant epidemic. Portion control is free and you don’t see overweight people doing this.

Just look at which foods kids choose when given the option. Every class party, the donuts get eaten in five seconds while the apple slices or bags of carrots get left behind. Adults are no different. Adults are choosing to eat crap because it tastes good, is satisfying, and gives them pleasure. They aren’t controlling their portions because they aren’t eating to address hunger.

With inflation now, I’ve noticed that the fresher healthy food IS cheaper than the nutrition less, high calorie, processed snack food. A large bag of apples was 2.99 while a bag of cookies Oreo, Nilla wafers and all the rest of the brands were 4.59 or more. A dozen eggs were $3 while the cheapest on sale cereal was 3.99. Yet people who can afford it and probably a lot who can’t are still buying cookies and cereal.

There was an article a while back on why lower income families give in to kids asking for junk food more than UMC parents. The researchers discovered that since the lower income parents couldn’t afford other rewards/gifts like toys or experiences they used junk food as something they could afford to make their kids happy.

Food companies sell products that people buy. They have focus groups and adding sweetener wins, so they make this. During the lockdowns, the cookie and chip aisle was bare while the kale chips still didn’t move.

I honestly don’t know where to begin with the profound ignorance shown here. Every sentence demonstrates a deep lack of comprehension.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While I think subsidizing healthy food is good, it will not make much of a dent in the hesitant epidemic. Portion control is free and you don’t see overweight people doing this.

Just look at which foods kids choose when given the option. Every class party, the donuts get eaten in five seconds while the apple slices or bags of carrots get left behind. Adults are no different. Adults are choosing to eat crap because it tastes good, is satisfying, and gives them pleasure. They aren’t controlling their portions because they aren’t eating to address hunger.

With inflation now, I’ve noticed that the fresher healthy food IS cheaper than the nutrition less, high calorie, processed snack food. A large bag of apples was 2.99 while a bag of cookies Oreo, Nilla wafers and all the rest of the brands were 4.59 or more. A dozen eggs were $3 while the cheapest on sale cereal was 3.99. Yet people who can afford it and probably a lot who can’t are still buying cookies and cereal.

There was an article a while back on why lower income families give in to kids asking for junk food more than UMC parents. The researchers discovered that since the lower income parents couldn’t afford other rewards/gifts like toys or experiences they used junk food as something they could afford to make their kids happy.

Food companies sell products that people buy. They have focus groups and adding sweetener wins, so they make this. During the lockdowns, the cookie and chip aisle was bare while the kale chips still didn’t move.

So what do you make of the research that obese AND FORMERLY people experience more hunger and have more hunger triggering hormones than non-obese people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a "skinny" person and probably get some very small fraction of body shaming in people telling me I'm too thin, offering me cookies, etc. I eat healthy and I eat a lot, and I also want to be left alone. But bullies will bully you for whatever they can articulate, and there are a surprisingly high number of the.

While I really like the article, I really wish we would stop talking about bullies so much (who are unlikely to change after reading the article, no matter how factual it is) and start integrating healthy food and habits into society so they are accessible. It is very hard to choose healthy foods when they are either MUCH more expensive or MUCH more time consuming to prepare. It's also harder to walk or bike to work in most of the USA. Systemically removing sugar and processed foods from the food chain and building livable cities is nowhere in the policy conversation. We are adding bike lanes, which is great, but that's about the only real initiative I've seen in major American cities. I am surprised insurance companies aren't lobbying for these changes.

Very good analysis, PP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a "skinny" person and probably get some very small fraction of body shaming in people telling me I'm too thin, offering me cookies, etc. I eat healthy and I eat a lot, and I also want to be left alone. But bullies will bully you for whatever they can articulate, and there are a surprisingly high number of the.

While I really like the article, I really wish we would stop talking about bullies so much (who are unlikely to change after reading the article, no matter how factual it is) and start integrating healthy food and habits into society so they are accessible. It is very hard to choose healthy foods when they are either MUCH more expensive or MUCH more time consuming to prepare. It's also harder to walk or bike to work in most of the USA. Systemically removing sugar and processed foods from the food chain and building livable cities is nowhere in the policy conversation. We are adding bike lanes, which is great, but that's about the only real initiative I've seen in major American cities. I am surprised insurance companies aren't lobbying for these changes.

Very good analysis, PP!

not really she skipped over the metabolically unhealthy skinny people. those skinny people are eating the same foods and not exercising and are still unhealthy. its about individual choices.

we shuold do these things because they are good for everyone and the environment not because of obese people. the problem is that skinny people dont want these changes because they cost money, and they are able to be virtue signaling skinny (just try harder fatty!) while possibly as metabolically unhealthy as an obese person or even more than an overweight person.

those interventions are for lifestyle not just a response to obesity. obesity=lifestyle which is something you seem to have issues understanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a "skinny" person and probably get some very small fraction of body shaming in people telling me I'm too thin, offering me cookies, etc. I eat healthy and I eat a lot, and I also want to be left alone. But bullies will bully you for whatever they can articulate, and there are a surprisingly high number of the.

While I really like the article, I really wish we would stop talking about bullies so much (who are unlikely to change after reading the article, no matter how factual it is) and start integrating healthy food and habits into society so they are accessible. It is very hard to choose healthy foods when they are either MUCH more expensive or MUCH more time consuming to prepare. It's also harder to walk or bike to work in most of the USA. Systemically removing sugar and processed foods from the food chain and building livable cities is nowhere in the policy conversation. We are adding bike lanes, which is great, but that's about the only real initiative I've seen in major American cities. I am surprised insurance companies aren't lobbying for these changes.

Very good analysis, PP!

not really she skipped over the metabolically unhealthy skinny people. those skinny people are eating the same foods and not exercising and are still unhealthy. its about individual choices.

we shuold do these things because they are good for everyone and the environment not because of obese people. the problem is that skinny people dont want these changes because they cost money, and they are able to be virtue signaling skinny (just try harder fatty!) while possibly as metabolically unhealthy as an obese person or even more than an overweight person.

those interventions are for lifestyle not just a response to obesity. obesity=lifestyle which is something you seem to have issues understanding.

***does not equal ***

[Anonymous]

For everyone pointing to more walking/biking/exercise, what did you make of the fact that studies where kids got more exercise didn’t change the obesity rates in the test population?

SMH it’s astonishing how people absolutely refuse to review and absorb data on obesity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't disagree with anything in the article except that the "biggest" problem is shaming... is that really the biggest problem, or is it the stuff they're putting in our food? The article states that Americans eat fewer calories today than they did in 2003, but we're still fatter. So even if nobody was shaming us from 2003-2022, wouldn't we still have gained weight because of our food?

The shaming is used by the lobbyists for the food companies that are actually killing us to stop any productive conversation about regulation of poisonous food and the deeply harmful food supply. Food companies, taking a page from cigarette companies, publish articles and get doctors to grow that narrative. But they rely heavily on popular culture shame to push their agenda.

So I disagree with your presumption, because I think without the shaming, as a society we would be much further along in the conversation about what will really eventually have to happen to solve this issue: significant legislation and regulation. So while I don’t think the shame is the root cause, I do think it is the biggest problem because it has effectively stopped the change that really needs to happen.

I'm the PP, and I appreciate your perspective, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For everyone pointing to more walking/biking/exercise, what did you make of the fact that studies where kids got more exercise didn’t change the obesity rates in the test population?

SMH it’s astonishing how people absolutely refuse to review and absorb data on obesity.

They don’t want to learn. They like being ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a nutshell: fat shaming does not help.

I get that. I also get that the US needs to stop subsidies to big Agra and their health wrecking foods. Perhaps subsidize healthy foods instead and revamp the school lunch program so kids learn to eat better from a young age. Snap benefits should encourage purchase of healthy food over unhealthy food. Doctors should not fat shame but get to the root of the problem (whether endocrine or some other disorder, prescribe proven drugs, address mental health issues). Build trails and bike lanes in more places to encourage activity or subsidize gyms. I don’t what else, but address it like an epidemic. It’s a public health crisis. Use some of the money from defense to fight this.

Do all that. Where does that leave personal responsibility though? Not sure the article addresses that and I don’t have an answer. I personally know MC and UMC educated people (doctors even) who are clinically super-morbidly obese. Money and education are not an issue. They are not limited to eating processed foods like some poorer people are. They live in nice neighborhoods with green space. They choose to go on cruises, steakhouses, Disney, etc and eat at the food and festivals. Desserts and sugary cocktails galore. Fat shaming doesn’t work. They have access to healthcare and healthful foods. What more can be done for them? Or do we accept that they are just fine the way they are. It’s a lifestyle and they have similar weight friends so have support from each other—to stay the way they are, to celebrate it. Don’t fat shame but what? Give them a tax incentive or disincentive?

[Anonymous]

Thank you again to OP for posting this. This has been one of the more intelligent and interesting dialogues here on the topic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a nutshell: fat shaming does not help.

I get that. I also get that the US needs to stop subsidies to big Agra and their health wrecking foods. Perhaps subsidize healthy foods instead and revamp the school lunch program so kids learn to eat better from a young age. Snap benefits should encourage purchase of healthy food over unhealthy food. Doctors should not fat shame but get to the root of the problem (whether endocrine or some other disorder, prescribe proven drugs, address mental health issues). Build trails and bike lanes in more places to encourage activity or subsidize gyms. I don’t what else, but address it like an epidemic. It’s a public health crisis. Use some of the money from defense to fight this.

Do all that. Where does that leave personal responsibility though? Not sure the article addresses that and I don’t have an answer. I personally know MC and UMC educated people (doctors even) who are clinically super-morbidly obese. Money and education are not an issue. They are not limited to eating processed foods like some poorer people are. They live in nice neighborhoods with green space. They choose to go on cruises, steakhouses, Disney, etc and eat at the food and festivals. Desserts and sugary cocktails galore. Fat shaming doesn’t work. They have access to healthcare and healthful foods. What more can be done for them? Or do we accept that they are just fine the way they are. It’s a lifestyle and they have similar weight friends so have support from each other—to stay the way they are, to celebrate it. Don’t fat shame but what? Give them a tax incentive or disincentive?

Obesity rates are increasing globally including in places with the consumer friendly food regulations you’re calling for AND with the kinds of kids lunch programs you’re calling for. Why do you still think that will help?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a nutshell: fat shaming does not help.

I get that. I also get that the US needs to stop subsidies to big Agra and their health wrecking foods. Perhaps subsidize healthy foods instead and revamp the school lunch program so kids learn to eat better from a young age. Snap benefits should encourage purchase of healthy food over unhealthy food. Doctors should not fat shame but get to the root of the problem (whether endocrine or some other disorder, prescribe proven drugs, address mental health issues). Build trails and bike lanes in more places to encourage activity or subsidize gyms. I don’t what else, but address it like an epidemic. It’s a public health crisis. Use some of the money from defense to fight this.

Do all that. Where does that leave personal responsibility though? Not sure the article addresses that and I don’t have an answer. I personally know MC and UMC educated people (doctors even) who are clinically super-morbidly obese. Money and education are not an issue. They are not limited to eating processed foods like some poorer people are. They live in nice neighborhoods with green space. They choose to go on cruises, steakhouses, Disney, etc and eat at the food and festivals. Desserts and sugary cocktails galore. Fat shaming doesn’t work. They have access to healthcare and healthful foods. What more can be done for them? Or do we accept that they are just fine the way they are. It’s a lifestyle and they have similar weight friends so have support from each other—to stay the way they are, to celebrate it. Don’t fat shame but what? Give them a tax incentive or disincentive?

Did you know that when this population changes their lifestyle and moves from obesity to a healthy weight they, as a population, fail to maintain it? That dropping all those cruises and churros does not result in long term weight maintenance, even after they have proven they can and will change their lifestyle?