Cry it out is the most heartless and cruel thing you can do to a child…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Terrible parenting. You will pay.

Great parenting! My kids began getting all the sleep they needed and were much happier!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have known plenty of sleep deprived babies and toddlers. It impacts everything, just like in adults. They’re moody, quick to get upset, have difficulty training. People that let their kids go for their first most formative years in that state are misguided and doing their kids a disservice. I pity those kids, same as you probably pity mine.

Only those in daycare settings or home with lots of other kids. If you let a baby and toddler sleep when and how they want, they aren’t sleep deprived.

DP. This is a laughably ignorant statement.

No, it isn’t. When a baby can sleep on their own schedule they aren’t sleep deprived. A baby cannot sleep on his/her own schedule in daycare.

Since when can’t a baby sleep on their schedule in daycare? Any high quality daycare follows an infants sleep and feeding cues. They are not on a schedule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have known plenty of sleep deprived babies and toddlers. It impacts everything, just like in adults. They’re moody, quick to get upset, have difficulty training. People that let their kids go for their first most formative years in that state are misguided and doing their kids a disservice. I pity those kids, same as you probably pity mine.

Only those in daycare settings or home with lots of other kids. If you let a baby and toddler sleep when and how they want, they aren’t sleep deprived.

DP. This is a laughably ignorant statement.

No, it isn’t. When a baby can sleep on their own schedule they aren’t sleep deprived. A baby cannot sleep on his/her own schedule in daycare.

Since when can’t a baby sleep on their schedule in daycare? Any high quality daycare follows an infants sleep and feeding cues. They are not on a schedule.

Oof, this is not how most daycares function. It's not realistic.

My child's natural schedule as a baby was to wake at 6am, nap from 8:30-10:30, eat and play, then nap from noon-1:30 or so, then eat and play, then another 15-30 minute nap before dinner. No daycare was going to accommodate that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And yet, somehow, all of these CIO babies grow up to be perfectly fine and normal kids. My son has always been a great sleeper so we never had to do CIO, but plenty of people do and there isn’t some epidemic of damaged kids. It doesn’t make a difference longterm and those who claim it does are likely the same people who must be a martyr about everything around parenting.

Seriously, you don't notice the damaged people walking around? Yes, we are in an epidemic of damaged people. Our society is shot to hell. Parents are not even moved by their own babies crying. Not a good sign about our society.

[Anonymous]

My kid cried just as much when they could not get themselves to sleep and it was a constant cycle of breaking my back swinging an 18 lb nine month old to bed for two hours then having him cry the second he went down. On repeat. Cry it out was hard for a few days and then a complete godsend for everyone.

[Anonymous]

My first STTN pretty much from day one. We never let him cry it out but we never could have even if we had wanted to bc he just hardly ever would wake/cry at bedtime or nap time or during the sleep times anyway. We’d put him down at consistent times and he’d just miraculously put himself to sleep.

Then we had my 2nd. She could not be put down to sleep without screaming. We tried drowsy but awake, we tried nursing to sleep, we tried everything but nothing worked. She would scream and cry whenever you put her down to sleep. We didn’t want to do CIO so we tried co sleeping. Even that wasn’t good enough/she’d still scream and cry unless she was held and we obviously couldn’t hold her all night long or even for all naps during the day since we had another child. So we finally tried CIO when she was 9 months old. We were exhausted. We were miserable. We felt like we’d tried everything. Then guess what? CIO didn’t work either. She just was a nightmare sleeper for the first 12-18 months of her life. I wonder if we had tried CIO earlier w her it would’ve worked? Who knows. She’s now 5 and sleeps great. Haha

I feel like a lot of this is just there is no right answer. You try to do what you think is best for your kid/your family. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet, somehow, all of these CIO babies grow up to be perfectly fine and normal kids. My son has always been a great sleeper so we never had to do CIO, but plenty of people do and there isn’t some epidemic of damaged kids. It doesn’t make a difference longterm and those who claim it does are likely the same people who must be a martyr about everything around parenting.

Seriously, you don't notice the damaged people walking around? Yes, we are in an epidemic of damaged people. Our society is shot to hell. Parents are not even moved by their own babies crying. Not a good sign about our society.

Yes, I’m sure the root of our messed up society is babies being left to cry themselves to sleep for 2-3 nights when they are 6 months old.

[Anonymous]

CIO saves lives. Babies lives, parents lives. Regardless of your feelings about it, driver fatigue is a leading contributor to car accidents, and car accidents are a leading cause of death for children and infants in the United States. I know we as humans are very bad at assessing risk, but the math says you’re protecting your baby more by getting a good object sleep than you are by staying up all night with them.

In our case we trained at 14M when our daughter was clearly ready (had slept through the night on her own many times, had a transition object, didn’t need night feedings).

[Anonymous]

We do it for our own convenience. It’s a first world problem. This is not how our species has evolved and how the rest of the world raises babies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet, somehow, all of these CIO babies grow up to be perfectly fine and normal kids. My son has always been a great sleeper so we never had to do CIO, but plenty of people do and there isn’t some epidemic of damaged kids. It doesn’t make a difference longterm and those who claim it does are likely the same people who must be a martyr about everything around parenting.

Seriously, you don't notice the damaged people walking around? Yes, we are in an epidemic of damaged people. Our society is shot to hell. Parents are not even moved by their own babies crying. Not a good sign about our society.

My friend who nursed her babies till 3 and co slept much longer...has a kid with major anger issues. Guess you're wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We do it for our own convenience. It’s a first world problem. This is not how our species has evolved and how the rest of the world raises babies.

So if it’s an adaptation to how our society functions…okay? There’s no village that’s going to magically show up and help with baby sleep issues for most US women and we’re told by pediatricians that cosleeping is incredibly dangerous. Sleep training works for lots of people.

[Anonymous]

The problem is that those who are insensitive enough to do CIO aren’t sensitive enough to understand the potential downsides—and they probably don’t even believe that some children are highly sensitive and need more support than others. They aren’t second-guessers or worriers and hopefully their children inherit their toughness.

We have an epidemic of anxiety in this country and so many successful people who are over reactive or have intimacy issues. It’s not about attachment…it’s about the infant brain and emotional patterning we barely understand. It’s very tough to study this stuff but the one neonatologist I know says she would never CIO because of the unknowns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do it for our own convenience. It’s a first world problem. This is not how our species has evolved and how the rest of the world raises babies.

So if it’s an adaptation to how our society functions…okay? There’s no village that’s going to magically show up and help with baby sleep issues for most US women and we’re told by pediatricians that cosleeping is incredibly dangerous. Sleep training works for lots of people.

I'm not anti-sleep training, but... Cosleeping can be done safely and any pediatrician who simply advises against it without explaining the safe options for it is doing a disservice to kids and parents. There are a broad range of cosleeping arrangements that are totally safe. A lot of my friends just used a cosleeper. I had another friend who slept in the bed with the baby and followed strict rules about minimal bedding and absolutely no drugs/alcohol/medication, which enabled her to safely cosleep with her baby (her DH slept in another bed during this time). We decided to use a regular crib instead of a cosleeper, but just kept it next to the bed for the first 8 months, and I could reach in and get the baby without getting out of bed. By the time DD was down to one feed a night, I actually preferred to get out of bed for that feed and do it in the rocking chair -- once she was back asleep, I'd use the bathroom and get some water and then go back to sleep. This was my schedule for months and it did not leave me sleep deprived -- it was a quiet 15-20 minute disruption in the middle of the night that also allowed me to satisfy other needs, and once I acclimated, it had no negative impact on my sleep. Sleep training would have worked too, but it turned out not to be necessary, and my kid started STTN around 9 months on her own with this approach.

I think families should do what is right for them, but I also think lots of new parents are told the HAVE to sleep train or their child won't learn to sleep correctly. This isn't true. New parents should be given tools and encouraged to use them safely, whether that's cosleeping, sleep training, or other methods. Most sleep training experts I know actually don't advocate for much CIO at all. They will suggest you let your child cry for short periods to see if they resettle on their own, or go in at intervals to soothe but limit the soothing (i.e. don't immediately pick up, soothe for a moment so they know you are there but then leave even if they are still a little fussy), but I don't know anyone who suggests just letting a baby cry until they fall asleep unless it happens very quickly.

The problem on this thread are the people saying that you HAVE to sleep train or your child will have messed up sleep (not true at all) or that you CANNOT sleep train because it is cruel (also not cruel unless done in an inappropriate way).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that those who are insensitive enough to do CIO aren’t sensitive enough to understand the potential downsides—and they probably don’t even believe that some children are highly sensitive and need more support than others. They aren’t second-guessers or worriers and hopefully their children inherit their toughness.

We have an epidemic of anxiety in this country and so many successful people who are over reactive or have intimacy issues. It’s not about attachment…it’s about the infant brain and emotional patterning we barely understand. It’s very tough to study this stuff but the one neonatologist I know says she would never CIO because of the unknowns.

Is CIO why there are so many anxious people in DC? Lots of unsupported claims here. Your neonatologist friend might not sleep train, but many more pediatricians would. And it is unhealthy to go through life constantly second guessing yourself. You do the best you can and keep moving forward.

[Anonymous]

Who knows if CIO leads to anxiety etc etc. It’s on a spectrum of “firm but loving” things that have been done to children for generations that we are evolving out of. Thank goodness.

Re: pediatricians. They don’t know any more than the rest of us about the neuroscience of babies. Trust them when your kid gets RSV or has torticollis. Follow their vaccine recs. Emotional health? No way.