Cry it out is the most heartless and cruel thing you can do to a child…

[Anonymous]

I’m the PP who brought up not relying on a pediatrician re: your child’s emotional health.

I married into a family with two pediatricians who went to top schools and work in respected practices. By all accounts they are excellent clinicians and I was so grateful for their Covid-related advice. But they know *very little* about potty training, sleep, picky eating, shyness…all the things we obsess about on dcum. They freely admit this and, now that they have kids, ask the advice of other parents in the family.

My experience is that peds who work in small practices in expensive neighborhoods develop their own set of opinions that complement the demographic. Peds at larger hospital based systems tend to be neutral since they see parents with hugely varied cultural norms and resources. My child’s doc is the latter and I’ve grown to appreciate her neutral stance even though I was frustrated at first. I would never CIO and she totally respects that. She was fine with purées or BLW. Gave me pros and cons for circumcision, etc. When we’ve had actual medical issues, she has a much stronger POV and plan and that’s what matters.

I’m not saying not to consult your ped, but don’t let it be your last call. The best advice I’ve received has been from speech therapists, podcasters without degrees and other moms. And some amazing nuggets from dcum!

[Anonymous]

I dunno, I just had to CIO with my 7 year old because she NEVER learned how to fall asleep on her own. You never know how your newborn will turn out. Better at 7 months than 7 years when they know and remember.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I dunno, I just had to CIO with my 7 year old because she NEVER learned how to fall asleep on her own. You never know how your newborn will turn out. Better at 7 months than 7 years when they know and remember.

True that babies can’t “remember” trauma in the same way that an older child does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dunno. Subjecting your kid to sleep deprivation is pretty cruel, too. We sleep trained because our baby was *clearly* exhausted. She needed sleep, too.

+1000. Sleep deprivation is recognized as a form of torture by the UN Convention Against Torture. Letting my child cry it out tortured me, but the immediate change in his temperament-- from cranky and unhappy to cheerful and energetic-- was dramatic and a total vindication. One of the best parenting decisions I ever made.

Comments like this lead me to believe that a lot of this argument is based on having very different babies with very different sleep issues.

I didn't sleep train my baby and this in no way led to sleep deprivation for her. It was at times challenging for me but I figured out how to get the sleep I needed. But she slept fine, it's just that she didn't STTN until 9 or 10 months. She'd wake up once or twice, I'd nurse her, she'd fall back asleep within 5-10 minutes. Eventually she stopped waking up. At no point was she getting so little sleep that she was cranky. She also napped well that first year. And she's never had any sleep issues beyond a few minor regressions since learning to sleep at night on her own.

I am guessing people who sleep train have babies who are not merely waking up at night, but doing so frequently and are not going back to sleep quickly or easily as mine did. I'm guessing this is precisely what sleep training is for -- babies who have a hard enough time sleeping that it impacts their mood and temperament.

So for some people, sleep training is essential, and for others, it is superfluous. That's why these comments about how people who sleep train are cruel, or people who don't are cruel, make no sense. You should only do it if your baby has a problem with sleep that needs solving. My baby didn't have a problem with sleep -- she was good at it and got plenty of it. It's just that for a long while she'd wake up in the middle of the night and want a snuggle and something to eat, and we gave it to her. No sleep deprivation. Not cruel at all.

+1 we sleep trained at 12 months because DD was waking up every 1-2 hours. She was miserable and we were miserable. We tried "gentle" methods but she would cry if we changed anything at all. So CIO extinction it was and after 25 minutes she was suddenly a great sleeper.

[Anonymous]

...ok


Why do people even debate in these threads? Just move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dunno, I just had to CIO with my 7 year old because she NEVER learned how to fall asleep on her own. You never know how your newborn will turn out. Better at 7 months than 7 years when they know and remember.

True that babies can’t “remember” trauma in the same way that an older child does.

I don’t know… a 7 year old understands a great deal more and won’t feel scared/abandoned knowing that her parents are in their room. A 7 year old is just manipulating mom and dad… a 7 months old is not and it does not matter tht they won’t remember it. Why is that important?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I dunno, I just had to CIO with my 7 year old because she NEVER learned how to fall asleep on her own. You never know how your newborn will turn out. Better at 7 months than 7 years when they know and remember.

True that babies can’t “remember” trauma in the same way that an older child does.

Trauma is coded into the DNA via epigenetic modifications of chromatin. So, yeah, your baby may not have an episodic memory of the time you let her cry all night, but depending on how long it went on for (weeks vs a few nights), it could permanently change aspects of the stress response system. Personally I came up with my own system for my babies: get on a really rigid schedule, and let them cry for a max of ten minutes. If still crying after ten, I'd comfort them to sleep, but usually they were out well before that. The rigid schedule is key because it means your child's sleep/wake hormone secretion is properly tuned to drive sleep onset at the desired time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:...ok


Why do people even debate in these threads? Just move on.

It really doesn’t matter one way or the other in the end.
This article I feel has a balanced discussion of pros and cons.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220322-how-sleep-training-affects-babies

Personally have not sleep trained. One we cosleep and it is not necessary. Two if she wakes up before I’m in bed she either fusses for a minute or two and falls back asleep or goes full out on crying (usually when she is hungry). She has been capable of falling back asleep on her own since early on without sleep training.

I actually do recall being a toddler and screaming for my parents at night and then not coming and worry that sleep training does not train sleep but rather learned helplessness (one you learn it’s futile to cry for your parents, you just stop doing it.) so I am biased against it but also think people need to do what’s right for their family. If it helps parents be https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220322-how-sleep-training-affects-babies more well rested that is a good reason to do it. Evidence shows it minimally increases the amounts babies actually sleep.