Cry it out is the most heartless and cruel thing you can do to a child…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s get real. The only reason to CIO is to support parents’ sanity, livelihood, marital relationship, etc. It doesn’t help children sleep more or better—that’s delusion parents use to justify their choice. Happens to be the same reasoning people used when spanking kids “for their own good”. They too believed it was important for establishing boundaries, learning to self-regulate, etc.

Any infant who is on a good schedule, gets enough sunlight early and has a caregiver willing to work with the child’s clock rather than their own (yes that usually means rocking and soothing them to sleep for several months) will get enough sleep. Any outliers are ill—the last kids who should be left to cry

+1

CIO was developed as a "method" in order to facilitate the way we raise kids in the US -- dual income families, minimal family or community support. Babies are expected to get on adult schedules as quickly as possible because there is such limited accommodation for children.

In countries with sufficient parental leave and more support for young families, CIO is not a thing because it's not necessary. Even when both parents work, there is often extended family or communal support that enables the parents to work. Or families work alternate schedules. The idea that a couple will get their child STTN by month 2 or 3 so that the parents can get uninterrupted sleep without the assistance of extended family and then return to pre-baby schedules at work, is a uniquely American phenomenon.

Go ask people in other societies about Ferber or CIO or any of this. They don't know what you are talking about. Babies don't need to be "trained" to sleep. It's just in the country we train them to function as much like adults as possible to accommodate a culture that does not accommodate children or families but expects them to accommodate everyone else.

Ha! My German family recommended CIO to me before I ever considered it myself.

You're holding up your German heritage as an example of warmth and compassion? You've got to be kidding me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have known plenty of sleep deprived babies and toddlers. It impacts everything, just like in adults. They’re moody, quick to get upset, have difficulty training. People that let their kids go for their first most formative years in that state are misguided and doing their kids a disservice. I pity those kids, same as you probably pity mine.

Why do you assume all non-CIO kids are sleep deprived? My kids slept great and were no sleep deprived at all - they just needed to be held and fed frequently. My kids sleep twelve hours a night now at 2 and 4 and never once cried for more than a minute where they were unattended to.

Sleep training is for parents not the baby.

+1 It's for parents who want to have it all. At their kids' expense....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s so funny that proponents of CIO think babies not subjected to this are sleep deprived and their parents are up all night. Not at all. Babies don’t need to be trained to sleep.
I coslept with mine for years. Once they were past needing diaper changes at night (a few weeks?), all I had to do was roll over, nurse, go back to sleep. Didn’t even need to fully wake up, & there was literally no crying. My kids are older now & sleep just fine. No “training” required.
There’s a reason it feels so wrong to ignore a young baby’s cries.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had a kid who cried constantly. Rocking him or holding him didn't help. At 6 weeks I just put him down and let him scream.

One night of that, and he slept through the night from then on. His whole disposition was happier, as was ours.

Kids are different. But sleep is good for everyone.

You let you baby in pain and abandoned. He gave up because there was no hope of anyone coming to help him.

Blah blah blah. He is an adult now and laughing at your comment.

See, someone who has no problem posting like this is exactly the kind of hardened jerk who can let their kids CIO. Bitter, hard-hearted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Terrible parenting. You will pay.

how will those of us who sleep trained pay?

I don’t think the poster was serious. But there are studies that say CIO sleep training before a year damages the structure of a child’s brain increasing aggression and learning disabilities. If true, the child will pay not the parents.

Pubmed citations, please.

You can google it, PP. There are hundreds and various groups dedicated to stopping CIO sleep training.

No, there are not “hundreds” of high-quality studies showing brain damage, increased aggression, and learning disabilities in kids who did CIO. Try again.

There are various groups dedicated to stopping plenty of things. That doesn’t mean there’s quality evidence supporting their efforts.

Just google it.

NP
Translation: I like making claims without any real basis that I know of, and if you can't find any legitimate basis for my claim either, I can always just say you didn't look hard enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think CIO (done correctly, especially) and giving your child (and you) the gift of sleep is the cruelest thing you can do to a child, you’ve led a very charmed life and need to get some perspective.

There is no “gift of sleep” any more thanks there is a “gift of suckling” or “gift of appetite”.

Funny you say that. My kid actually needed significant help learning how to feed as a newborn. Just like some babies need help with sleep!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s crueler to have an exhausted baby because you’re too scared to fix a problem. “Oh, I just couldn’t make him sad!” is a terrible way to parent.

This.

[Anonymous]

I think kids and parents are different and people need to do what is right for their family.

Me - I could never do it. Not in a million years. But I was a SAHM and she was my only.

I was not a perfect mother but I tried. That said, again I think everyone needs to do what is right for their family.

[Anonymous]

I mean the baby is sobbing because they are exhausted and can’t sleep. That has made me want to sob too! Have some compassion and let your baby fall asleep and get a good nights rest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean the baby is sobbing because they are exhausted and can’t sleep. That has made me want to sob too! Have some compassion and let your baby fall asleep and get a good nights rest.

Are you under the impression that parents who don't CIO are taking their babies out to bars or making them watch Kubrick movies instead of "letting them sleep"?

Soothing your child when they cry does not stop them from falling asleep. It facilitates their sleep. It disrupts the adults' sleep, but you can greatly mitigate this by sleeping near your baby and adapting your own sleeping routines to accommodate your newborn until they STTN. Like going to bed early, avoiding alcohol and caffeine, and managing your stress well. You just do this for 6 months or so, it's not a huge sacrifice! And then you, too, can give your child the "gift of sleep" without having to listen to them scream and sob until they pass out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have known plenty of sleep deprived babies and toddlers. It impacts everything, just like in adults. They’re moody, quick to get upset, have difficulty training. People that let their kids go for their first most formative years in that state are misguided and doing their kids a disservice. I pity those kids, same as you probably pity mine.

Why do you assume all non-CIO kids are sleep deprived? My kids slept great and were no sleep deprived at all - they just needed to be held and fed frequently. My kids sleep twelve hours a night now at 2 and 4 and never once cried for more than a minute where they were unattended to.

Sleep training is for parents not the baby.

+1 It's for parents who want to have it all. At their kids' expense....

So your kids slept great...meaning you didn't have to sleep train. If my kids slept great they wouldn't have to either. But they woke up frequently and cried a ton despite me holding and rocking them. Trust me that I wasn't letting a baby who just woke up 1-2 times a night to CIO. I would have rocked them as long as they needed. But try waking up every 45 minutes to a hysterical baby who can't put themselves back to sleep and wake up the minute you put them down and also don't co sleep well....I'm guessing you would have done sleep training too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean the baby is sobbing because they are exhausted and can’t sleep. That has made me want to sob too! Have some compassion and let your baby fall asleep and get a good nights rest.

Are you under the impression that parents who don't CIO are taking their babies out to bars or making them watch Kubrick movies instead of "letting them sleep"?

Soothing your child when they cry does not stop them from falling asleep. It facilitates their sleep. It disrupts the adults' sleep, but you can greatly mitigate this by sleeping near your baby and adapting your own sleeping routines to accommodate your newborn until they STTN. Like going to bed early, avoiding alcohol and caffeine, and managing your stress well. You just do this for 6 months or so, it's not a huge sacrifice! And then you, too, can give your child the "gift of sleep" without having to listen to them scream and sob until they pass out.

The baby is not sobbing due to exhaustion. The baby is crying to summon a parent for comfort/reassurance/etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean the baby is sobbing because they are exhausted and can’t sleep. That has made me want to sob too! Have some compassion and let your baby fall asleep and get a good nights rest.

Are you under the impression that parents who don't CIO are taking their babies out to bars or making them watch Kubrick movies instead of "letting them sleep"?

Soothing your child when they cry does not stop them from falling asleep. It facilitates their sleep. It disrupts the adults' sleep, but you can greatly mitigate this by sleeping near your baby and adapting your own sleeping routines to accommodate your newborn until they STTN. Like going to bed early, avoiding alcohol and caffeine, and managing your stress well. You just do this for 6 months or so, it's not a huge sacrifice! And then you, too, can give your child the "gift of sleep" without having to listen to them scream and sob until they pass out.

The baby is not sobbing due to exhaustion. The baby is crying to summon a parent for comfort/reassurance/etc.

Yes -- they are babies. They wake up completely helpless alone and need to be comforted and reassured. What about that is hard to understand? Good God, did you give birth to Boss Baby?

[Anonymous]

And yet, somehow, all of these CIO babies grow up to be perfectly fine and normal kids. My son has always been a great sleeper so we never had to do CIO, but plenty of people do and there isn’t some epidemic of damaged kids. It doesn’t make a difference longterm and those who claim it does are likely the same people who must be a martyr about everything around parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Terrible parenting. You will pay.

how will those of us who sleep trained pay?

I don’t think the poster was serious. But there are studies that say CIO sleep training before a year damages the structure of a child’s brain increasing aggression and learning disabilities. If true, the child will pay not the parents.

Pubmed citations, please.

You can google it, PP. There are hundreds and various groups dedicated to stopping CIO sleep training.

No, there are not “hundreds” of high-quality studies showing brain damage, increased aggression, and learning disabilities in kids who did CIO. Try again.

There are various groups dedicated to stopping plenty of things. That doesn’t mean there’s quality evidence supporting their efforts.

Just google it.

Translation: you have no idea what you’re talking about. “Just google it” is not research.