What makes you think God cares?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“God isn’t real! Also: I hate God.”

First, congrats on having logic prevail and joining the ranks of rational non-believers and skeptics. However, you will find that most of your new peers don’t hate any gods because they do not believe there are any gods. Try that. It’s wonderful.

Mostly atheists and anti-theists post in the forum, asking questions an God, pointing out what they think are the harmful things God does, etc. Lots of my “peers” here daily…discussing a God they do not believe in. So, you are quite wrong.

Please find me a quote where someone who does not believe in a god hates one. It’s logically impossible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op—in answer to your question: The Bible —one of the greatest literary works of all time. So many detailed prophecies already fulfilled, so many archaeological findings backing the order of events up… countless people have turned to it for centuries as a great source of comfort over the ages. The Bible is God’s Word inspired in these writers. Yes, it takes faith to believe in God, but it also takes faith to not believe in a Creator. For example, to think that the human race was just a series of random mutations that simply occurred out of a Big Bang with no Master Creator also takes crazy faith. To think that mass, space, planets, galaxies, black holes, stars, and perfect physical phenomenons are not governed by some Higher Power is even greater faith in something not seen. There is a lot of mystery left in our universe. Be open to the possibilities.

"it also takes faith to not believe in a Creator" sounds like something people might hear in church, or something said to dissuade incipient atheists.

It doesn't take faith not to believe in a "Master creator" who is simply imagined to fill in for lack of knowledge. None at all.

Perhaps not faith then, but it takes willful ignorance not to believe in a Creator. God can be proven logically, at the level of natural reason. See: Aristotle and the unmoved mover. It takes supernatural faith to believe that that Creator loves each and every one of us as a father loves his child. Christianity is the only religion that posits that.

Of course, none of the people with faith will agree with this, but God has done amazing things for me in this life, even when I did not believe in Him. All things have worked together for good, even the evils that have befallen me. No series of random acts of chance could have done that. Especially since random, dispersonal chance can’t “do” anything, in the ontological sense. Chance has no will and certainly no love.

Sorry -- you can interpret how things happened in your own life anyway you want -- but please -- don't try to impose your way of thinking on others. It does not take "willful ignorance not to believe in a Creator" and God can NOT "be proven logically, at the level of natural reason." Even most religious people would disagree with that -- at least they are not taught that. Believing in God, or any being beyond nature, is a matter of faith.

I think "It takes willful ignorance" pp likes to put down non-believers, trying to make them look stupid in comparison to believers, as in ''How can you be so dumb, guys, OF COURSE there must be a god!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“God isn’t real! Also: I hate God.”

First, congrats on having logic prevail and joining the ranks of rational non-believers and skeptics. However, you will find that most of your new peers don’t hate any gods because they do not believe there are any gods. Try that. It’s wonderful.

Mostly atheists and anti-theists post in the forum, asking questions an God, pointing out what they think are the harmful things God does, etc. Lots of my “peers” here daily…discussing a God they do not believe in. So, you are quite wrong.

Please find me a quote where someone who does not believe in a god hates one. It’s logically impossible.

Correct - non believers don't think that "God" does anything - harmful or good - because they don't believe in the existence of God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op—in answer to your question: The Bible —one of the greatest literary works of all time. So many detailed prophecies already fulfilled, so many archaeological findings backing the order of events up… countless people have turned to it for centuries as a great source of comfort over the ages. The Bible is God’s Word inspired in these writers. Yes, it takes faith to believe in God, but it also takes faith to not believe in a Creator. For example, to think that the human race was just a series of random mutations that simply occurred out of a Big Bang with no Master Creator also takes crazy faith. To think that mass, space, planets, galaxies, black holes, stars, and perfect physical phenomenons are not governed by some Higher Power is even greater faith in something not seen. There is a lot of mystery left in our universe. Be open to the possibilities.

"it also takes faith to not believe in a Creator" sounds like something people might hear in church, or something said to dissuade incipient atheists.

It doesn't take faith not to believe in a "Master creator" who is simply imagined to fill in for lack of knowledge. None at all.

Perhaps not faith then, but it takes willful ignorance not to believe in a Creator. God can be proven logically, at the level of natural reason. See: Aristotle and the unmoved mover. It takes supernatural faith to believe that that Creator loves each and every one of us as a father loves his child. Christianity is the only religion that posits that.

Of course, none of the people with faith will agree with this, but God has done amazing things for me in this life, even when I did not believe in Him. All things have worked together for good, even the evils that have befallen me. No series of random acts of chance could have done that. Especially since random, dispersonal chance can’t “do” anything, in the ontological sense. Chance has no will and certainly no love.

Sorry -- you can interpret how things happened in your own life anyway you want -- but please -- don't try to impose your way of thinking on others. It does not take "willful ignorance not to believe in a Creator" and God can NOT "be proven logically, at the level of natural reason." Even most religious people would disagree with that -- at least they are not taught that. Believing in God, or any being beyond nature, is a matter of faith.

So what is the answer to the unmoved mover problem then? And where do you get that religious people aren’t taught that you can come to God using natural reason? It’s literally right there in the Catechism. Sounds like a fact that you just pulled out of your rear end tbh.

The Jansenists were correct in saying that one cannot come to religion logically. Jansenists like Rene Descartes said that atheism is a sign of intelligence because if you try to justify religion logically (without making logical errors as did the Jesuits) you will wind up an atheist. The Jansenists correctly said one could only be a Christian through faith. If religion could be proven logically, faith would be unnecessary. The problem with the Jansenists was, as they themselves recognized, what if one has no faith?

You’re conflating two different issues as if they are the same. My OP very distinctly said that reason can come to the conclusion that there was a creator. Simple examples: Something can not come from nothing, every design has a designer etc. That requires no religion. Supernatural faith initiated by Divine Revelation is what makes a person believe in the Christian god (who happens to be the one true God, with his various characteristics and interest in humanity) as creator. These two things do not contradict one another.

I will have to read more about how the Jansenists were anathematized at the time!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“God isn’t real! Also: I hate God.”

First, congrats on having logic prevail and joining the ranks of rational non-believers and skeptics. However, you will find that most of your new peers don’t hate any gods because they do not believe there are any gods. Try that. It’s wonderful.

Mostly atheists and anti-theists post in the forum, asking questions an God, pointing out what they think are the harmful things God does, etc. Lots of my “peers” here daily…discussing a God they do not believe in. So, you are quite wrong.

Please find me a quote where someone who does not believe in a god hates one. It’s logically impossible.

Correct - non believers don't think that "God" does anything - harmful or good - because they don't believe in the existence of God.

Yes, water is wet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op—in answer to your question: The Bible —one of the greatest literary works of all time. So many detailed prophecies already fulfilled, so many archaeological findings backing the order of events up… countless people have turned to it for centuries as a great source of comfort over the ages. The Bible is God’s Word inspired in these writers. Yes, it takes faith to believe in God, but it also takes faith to not believe in a Creator. For example, to think that the human race was just a series of random mutations that simply occurred out of a Big Bang with no Master Creator also takes crazy faith. To think that mass, space, planets, galaxies, black holes, stars, and perfect physical phenomenons are not governed by some Higher Power is even greater faith in something not seen. There is a lot of mystery left in our universe. Be open to the possibilities.

I would love to know which specific detailed prophecies have been fulfilled, and which archaeological findings back up the order of events as described in the Bible.

check out:
https://www.bibleed.com/the-miracle-of-the-bible.html

Above is the website of a christian group

“To call the Bible “a literary miracle” simply on the evidence of its unified message may seem to be a use of words which devalues the genuinely miraculous. But there are also other indicators of the Bible’s superhuman origin, not least of which is the evidence of fulfilled prophecy. Men often guess about the future, but they cannot predict it with any degree of accuracy – and least of all the distant future. Yet the God of the Bible offers precisely this ability to foretell long-distant events as evidence of His existence and of the reliability of His word. “Ask me of things to come”, said God through the prophet Isaiah, for “I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done” (Isaiah 45:11; 46:9-11).

Even the Bible’s strongest critics will admit that the Old Testament was in existence long before the birth of Christ. Yet the writings of Moses, of the Psalmists and of the prophets contain the most detailed predictions of the life and work of Jesus. Just look, for example, at Genesis 3:15 and, especially, at Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53, and ask yourself honestly how you can explain away the fact that such clear prophecies about Jesus came to be in the sacred scriptures of the Jews, who do not even yet recognise him as their Saviour. Similarly, it is possible to show that the unfolding misfortunes of the Jews, as well as the fate of the leading nations of the world, were outlined long before they happened, in prophecies of quite extraordinary detail (Deuteronomy 28, Ezekiel 26 and Daniel 2 are just three examples out of many). Yet such predictions are precisely what we should expect from the omniscient mind of a God who sees the whole of human history in a moment of time. They are clear evidence of the truly miraculous, revelatory character of the Bible.”

I'm afraid I'm going to need more than some copypasta from a website. You said there 'detailed prophesies already fulfilled'. I'd like you to quote specifics from the Bible that detail things to come, for things that we have evidence did happen (not more stuff from the Bible that says X or Y did happen, but we don't actually have any evidence of). Ditto archaeological findings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op—in answer to your question: The Bible —one of the greatest literary works of all time. So many detailed prophecies already fulfilled, so many archaeological findings backing the order of events up… countless people have turned to it for centuries as a great source of comfort over the ages. The Bible is God’s Word inspired in these writers. Yes, it takes faith to believe in God, but it also takes faith to not believe in a Creator. For example, to think that the human race was just a series of random mutations that simply occurred out of a Big Bang with no Master Creator also takes crazy faith. To think that mass, space, planets, galaxies, black holes, stars, and perfect physical phenomenons are not governed by some Higher Power is even greater faith in something not seen. There is a lot of mystery left in our universe. Be open to the possibilities.

"it also takes faith to not believe in a Creator" sounds like something people might hear in church, or something said to dissuade incipient atheists.

It doesn't take faith not to believe in a "Master creator" who is simply imagined to fill in for lack of knowledge. None at all.

Perhaps not faith then, but it takes willful ignorance not to believe in a Creator. God can be proven logically, at the level of natural reason. See: Aristotle and the unmoved mover. It takes supernatural faith to believe that that Creator loves each and every one of us as a father loves his child. Christianity is the only religion that posits that.

Of course, none of the people with faith will agree with this, but God has done amazing things for me in this life, even when I did not believe in Him. All things have worked together for good, even the evils that have befallen me. No series of random acts of chance could have done that. Especially since random, dispersonal chance can’t “do” anything, in the ontological sense. Chance has no will and certainly no love.

Sorry -- you can interpret how things happened in your own life anyway you want -- but please -- don't try to impose your way of thinking on others. It does not take "willful ignorance not to believe in a Creator" and God can NOT "be proven logically, at the level of natural reason." Even most religious people would disagree with that -- at least they are not taught that. Believing in God, or any being beyond nature, is a matter of faith.

So what is the answer to the unmoved mover problem then? And where do you get that religious people aren’t taught that you can come to God using natural reason? It’s literally right there in the Catechism. Sounds like a fact that you just pulled out of your rear end tbh.

The Jansenists were correct in saying that one cannot come to religion logically. Jansenists like Rene Descartes said that atheism is a sign of intelligence because if you try to justify religion logically (without making logical errors as did the Jesuits) you will wind up an atheist. The Jansenists correctly said one could only be a Christian through faith. If religion could be proven logically, faith would be unnecessary. The problem with the Jansenists was, as they themselves recognized, what if one has no faith?

You’re conflating two different issues as if they are the same. My OP very distinctly said that reason can come to the conclusion that there was a creator. Simple examples: Something can not come from nothing, every design has a designer etc. That requires no religion. Supernatural faith initiated by Divine Revelation is what makes a person believe in the Christian god (who happens to be the one true God, with his various characteristics and interest in humanity) as creator. These two things do not contradict one another.

I will have to read more about how the Jansenists were anathematized at the time!

Lucky you for picking the right one! /s

[Anonymous]

The number of people posting here that don’t believe in God, yet are asking questions about God and are mad at God, is unbelievably high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I know god doesn’t care.

-missionary kid

I know God cares.
-missionary kid and now missionary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“God isn’t real! Also: I hate God.”

First, congrats on having logic prevail and joining the ranks of rational non-believers and skeptics. However, you will find that most of your new peers don’t hate any gods because they do not believe there are any gods. Try that. It’s wonderful.

Mostly atheists and anti-theists post in the forum, asking questions an God, pointing out what they think are the harmful things God does, etc. Lots of my “peers” here daily…discussing a God they do not believe in. So, you are quite wrong.

Please find me a quote where someone who does not believe in a god hates one. It’s logically impossible.

Correct - non believers don't think that "God" does anything - harmful or good - because they don't believe in the existence of God.

Exactly. There’s no God so there’s nothing to hate. Remember in John Lennon’s song “Imagine,” he says that if there were no religion, there would be nothing to kill or die for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op—in answer to your question: The Bible —one of the greatest literary works of all time. So many detailed prophecies already fulfilled, so many archaeological findings backing the order of events up… countless people have turned to it for centuries as a great source of comfort over the ages. The Bible is God’s Word inspired in these writers. Yes, it takes faith to believe in God, but it also takes faith to not believe in a Creator. For example, to think that the human race was just a series of random mutations that simply occurred out of a Big Bang with no Master Creator also takes crazy faith. To think that mass, space, planets, galaxies, black holes, stars, and perfect physical phenomenons are not governed by some Higher Power is even greater faith in something not seen. There is a lot of mystery left in our universe. Be open to the possibilities.

"it also takes faith to not believe in a Creator" sounds like something people might hear in church, or something said to dissuade incipient atheists.

It doesn't take faith not to believe in a "Master creator" who is simply imagined to fill in for lack of knowledge. None at all.

Perhaps not faith then, but it takes willful ignorance not to believe in a Creator. God can be proven logically, at the level of natural reason. See: Aristotle and the unmoved mover. It takes supernatural faith to believe that that Creator loves each and every one of us as a father loves his child. Christianity is the only religion that posits that.

Of course, none of the people with faith will agree with this, but God has done amazing things for me in this life, even when I did not believe in Him. All things have worked together for good, even the evils that have befallen me. No series of random acts of chance could have done that. Especially since random, dispersonal chance can’t “do” anything, in the ontological sense. Chance has no will and certainly no love.

Sorry -- you can interpret how things happened in your own life anyway you want -- but please -- don't try to impose your way of thinking on others. It does not take "willful ignorance not to believe in a Creator" and God can NOT "be proven logically, at the level of natural reason." Even most religious people would disagree with that -- at least they are not taught that. Believing in God, or any being beyond nature, is a matter of faith.

So what is the answer to the unmoved mover problem then? And where do you get that religious people aren’t taught that you can come to God using natural reason? It’s literally right there in the Catechism. Sounds like a fact that you just pulled out of your rear end tbh.

The Jansenists were correct in saying that one cannot come to religion logically. Jansenists like Rene Descartes said that atheism is a sign of intelligence because if you try to justify religion logically (without making logical errors as did the Jesuits) you will wind up an atheist. The Jansenists correctly said one could only be a Christian through faith. If religion could be proven logically, faith would be unnecessary. The problem with the Jansenists was, as they themselves recognized, what if one has no faith?

You’re conflating two different issues as if they are the same. My OP very distinctly said that reason can come to the conclusion that there was a creator. Simple examples: Something can not come from nothing, every design has a designer etc. That requires no religion. Supernatural faith initiated by Divine Revelation is what makes a person believe in the Christian god (who happens to be the one true God, with his various characteristics and interest in humanity) as creator. These two things do not contradict one another.

I will have to read more about how the Jansenists were anathematized at the time!

Lucky you for picking the right one! /s

No one was anathemizing the Jansenists

[Anonymous]

Religion is the most evil thing man has ever created. War, crusades, pogroms, forced conversions, torture, the Holocaust, all because of religion. For thousands of years people have been fighting over a small strip of barren land in the Middle East that doesn’t even have any oil. How stupid is that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Religion is the most evil thing man has ever created. War, crusades, pogroms, forced conversions, torture, the Holocaust, all because of religion. For thousands of years people have been fighting over a small strip of barren land in the Middle East that doesn’t even have any oil. How stupid is that?

While I can't disagree with your reasoning, I think if it hadn't been religion, it would have been something else. Seems like people naturally find reasons to pick fights with each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op—in answer to your question: The Bible —one of the greatest literary works of all time. So many detailed prophecies already fulfilled, so many archaeological findings backing the order of events up… countless people have turned to it for centuries as a great source of comfort over the ages. The Bible is God’s Word inspired in these writers. Yes, it takes faith to believe in God, but it also takes faith to not believe in a Creator. For example, to think that the human race was just a series of random mutations that simply occurred out of a Big Bang with no Master Creator also takes crazy faith. To think that mass, space, planets, galaxies, black holes, stars, and perfect physical phenomenons are not governed by some Higher Power is even greater faith in something not seen. There is a lot of mystery left in our universe. Be open to the possibilities.

"it also takes faith to not believe in a Creator" sounds like something people might hear in church, or something said to dissuade incipient atheists.

It doesn't take faith not to believe in a "Master creator" who is simply imagined to fill in for lack of knowledge. None at all.

Perhaps not faith then, but it takes willful ignorance not to believe in a Creator. God can be proven logically, at the level of natural reason. See: Aristotle and the unmoved mover. It takes supernatural faith to believe that that Creator loves each and every one of us as a father loves his child. Christianity is the only religion that posits that.

Of course, none of the people with faith will agree with this, but God has done amazing things for me in this life, even when I did not believe in Him. All things have worked together for good, even the evils that have befallen me. No series of random acts of chance could have done that. Especially since random, dispersonal chance can’t “do” anything, in the ontological sense. Chance has no will and certainly no love.

Sorry -- you can interpret how things happened in your own life anyway you want -- but please -- don't try to impose your way of thinking on others. It does not take "willful ignorance not to believe in a Creator" and God can NOT "be proven logically, at the level of natural reason." Even most religious people would disagree with that -- at least they are not taught that. Believing in God, or any being beyond nature, is a matter of faith.

So what is the answer to the unmoved mover problem then? And where do you get that religious people aren’t taught that you can come to God using natural reason? It’s literally right there in the Catechism. Sounds like a fact that you just pulled out of your rear end tbh.

The Jansenists were correct in saying that one cannot come to religion logically. Jansenists like Rene Descartes said that atheism is a sign of intelligence because if you try to justify religion logically (without making logical errors as did the Jesuits) you will wind up an atheist. The Jansenists correctly said one could only be a Christian through faith. If religion could be proven logically, faith would be unnecessary. The problem with the Jansenists was, as they themselves recognized, what if one has no faith?

You’re conflating two different issues as if they are the same. My OP very distinctly said that reason can come to the conclusion that there was a creator. Simple examples: Something can not come from nothing, every design has a designer etc. That requires no religion. Supernatural faith initiated by Divine Revelation is what makes a person believe in the Christian god (who happens to be the one true God, with his various characteristics and interest in humanity) as creator. These two things do not contradict one another.

I will have to read more about how the Jansenists were anathematized at the time!

Lucky you for picking the right one! /s

No one was anathemizing the Jansenists

Jansenism was certainly declared a heresy. They believed that man did not have free will when it came to accepting God’s grace. Obviously he does, as evidenced by the people in this thread who are free to care so much about a God they don’t think exists lol. Man is totally free to consent, or refuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Religion is the most evil thing man has ever created. War, crusades, pogroms, forced conversions, torture, the Holocaust, all because of religion. For thousands of years people have been fighting over a small strip of barren land in the Middle East that doesn’t even have any oil. How stupid is that?

I think it’s politics, not religion. I think a lot of politicians use religion as an excuse to cause wars and seek power and influence. Politics is the most evil thing man ever created. Communism has killed 100+ million in the 20th century alone.