Do men really not care about a woman’s career?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:In my circle women’s college and profession matters but once married, it’s usually her decision if she wants to work or stay home after kids, men are okay with both choices. Men with high IQ tend to enjoy beauty but they crave intelligence.

Same.

This is what I've noticed. Career accomplishments optional, education not.

All things said "education"/ "intelligence"/ "success" is shorthand for other capacities and character traits that may come in handy when building a life with someone.

No. Educated men generally marry educated women because they meet them in school or in the same social circles. But education is not a must-have criteria. Most men would trade in an educated woman whose looks had declined for a hot, kind, great-in-bed woman. In fact, high status men often do just that after divorcing their first wife.

I guess they don't care if they have dumb children. Mother's education/intelligence greatly impacts the child's intelligence.

Umm they do care. They usually have children with wife #1 and divorce around 50 when his wife has already done all the hard work of parenting and right as he’s reaching his career peak. Wife #2 is for him to feel like a big shot with a younger woman and convince himself he’s still young.

Okay, the one couple I know that fits this description - 49yo married 33yo, and yes, she's hot, but she was also working in big law when they got married and a T20 law school graduate. She's barely working part time now and they have young kids and they seem as happy as any other family. I don't know how important earnings are, but pretty much all of the guys in my circle married women who are intellectually compatible, even the aforementioned outlier who remarried after his first marriage failed.

ok, but clearly she's not dumb. That's the point. A mother's intelligence impacts the child's intelligence.

Yes, I'm the PP that wrote about the age gap couple. I was agreeing with you. They fit the cliché in that he's wealthy and she's younger and pretty, but she was a college athlete, then t20 law school, then big law, and he brings these things up on conversation quite a bit, so clearly it mattered to him.

Of course he cares. Why wouldn’t you want a woman who is beautiful AND smart and capable? I don’t think anyone who values those qualities in himself or his friends looks at that and thinks no, I’d rather have someone dumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this is hard for many women to accept. But good sex is really the most important quality in a wife. A man will stay in a marriage if the sex is good, even if a lot other things are lacking. But once the sex is lacking, a man will be thinking about heading for the exit every day even if his wife is educated/successful and a nice person.

Eh. I think you underestimate how much men of a certain class still consider marriage an institution for breeding. They are looking for genes and someone who can function at work events and family events. Kind of like JFK and Jackie. Sexless marriage but she fit the bill.

A wife represents you in public, gestates and educates your children, manages the home environment so the holidays and hosting go smoothly. You definitely need someone educated and classy to fill these roles.

Ok, sure, but normal men (unlike JFK) can't just routinely and openly cheat with a parade of women to satisfy their libido while maintaining a sexless marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread would be more interesting if men were answering

What about a slightly butch lesbian?

I like women who are educated and who have less high-power jobs than mine. I work in DCUM's favorite career: Big Law.

I like to be seen as the breadwinner and I like to play the role of financial caretaker in a relationship.

My wife is a teacher. She's attractive - a solid DC 7. I love hearing her say things like, "Wife is treating me to a getaway to ___ this weekend" when she's chatting with friends and family. I love the smile she gives me when she says "you're too good to me" when I surprise her with a random gift. I love that, for the most part, she's home when I get home. Her job doesn't have a ton of carryover hours like mine does. By 5 pm, she's finished with work and home, with dinner cooking. She does all the little micromanaging things that I hate about life...dry cleaning, shopping, doctor & dentist appointment scheduling, house maintenance appointments, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this is hard for many women to accept. But good sex is really the most important quality in a wife. A man will stay in a marriage if the sex is good, even if a lot other things are lacking. But once the sex is lacking, a man will be thinking about heading for the exit every day even if his wife is educated/successful and a nice person.

Eh. I think you underestimate how much men of a certain class still consider marriage an institution for breeding. They are looking for genes and someone who can function at work events and family events. Kind of like JFK and Jackie. Sexless marriage but she fit the bill.

A wife represents you in public, gestates and educates your children, manages the home environment so the holidays and hosting go smoothly. You definitely need someone educated and classy to fill these roles.

Ok, sure, but normal men (unlike JFK) can't just routinely and openly cheat with a parade of women to satisfy their libido while maintaining a sexless marriage.

Yeah. But UMC/UC men are looking for all that in one package. Sex alone is fine for before marriage. Marriage is a big deal and the choice of the woman is considered from many facets.

Of course they will be unhappy if the sex isn’t there over time but they are likely to be able to sacrifice and let this go on for years, to protect the legacy they are building in the form of a family. You don’t usually get to that place in life without having given up things you want in the short term for things you want in the long term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How true is it that men would rather marry a hot woman with no career of her own than marry an average woman with a career that matched his?

Depends. There are all types of men. However, educated successful men with upper middle class educated families tend to care a lot even if they want her to become a SHAM after kids.

[Anonymous]

. I think you underestimate how much men of a certain class still consider marriage an institution for breeding.

Based on DCUM I’d say the class of women here look at marriage as primarily for breeding, too. Once they’ve had the desired number of kids, they lose all interest in their husbands, first sexually then in any other way, then they decide he’s a contemptible irritant they can live without. Oh sure, this is always rationalized as “he failed me” but the bottom line is once he has done his duty as a breeding stud she has no more use for him.

[Anonymous]

(She still demands his money, of course…)

[Anonymous]

Economy dictates choices, it’s not possible for men without high income or family wealth to afford SHAMS, two income is a survival issue, not necessarily a preference. Lifestyle costs money, women also want better lifestyles and doesn’t want to face problems if marriage fails. Jobs also provide a source of daily adult interaction at work and conversation material at social events. It doesn’t make sense for women to sacrifice all that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

. I think you underestimate how much men of a certain class still consider marriage an institution for breeding.

Based on DCUM I’d say the class of women here look at marriage as primarily for breeding, too. Once they’ve had the desired number of kids, they lose all interest in their husbands, first sexually then in any other way, then they decide he’s a contemptible irritant they can live without. Oh sure, this is always rationalized as “he failed me” but the bottom line is once he has done his duty as a breeding stud she has no more use for him.

Everyone wants the total package, for lots of reasons. Everyone wants smart, hot, capable, good earning potential, nurturing, kind — men and women. Obviously. This is the person who you’re going to parent with, build a nest egg with, behold a social circle and community with, and have an emotional, sexual, and intellectual connection. The more they bring to the table the higher value.

Of course there are always surprises down the line that no one can predict. But most people are looking for someone who checks the boxes and who has that indefinable something that makes you crazy about them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my circle women’s college and profession matters but once married, it’s usually her decision if she wants to work or stay home after kids, men are okay with both choices. Men with high IQ tend to enjoy beauty but they crave intelligence.

Same.

This is what I've noticed. Career accomplishments optional, education not.

All things said "education"/ "intelligence"/ "success" is shorthand for other capacities and character traits that may come in handy when building a life with someone.

No. Educated men generally marry educated women because they meet them in school or in the same social circles. But education is not a must-have criteria. Most men would trade in an educated woman whose looks had declined for a hot, kind, great-in-bed woman. In fact, high status men often do just that after divorcing their first wife.

I guess they don't care if they have dumb children. Mother's education/intelligence greatly impacts the child's intelligence.

Except most "high status" men don't divorce. I also think the stereotype of the partner running away with his secretary is somewhat dying because of a sea change of gender roles. Divorces peaked in the late 1970s and early 1980s because you had a clash of expectations. Certainly, women worked before then, but it was much seen as a long-term, fulfilling career. By the 70s and 80s, men tended to view a wife's career as something of a side hobby. Great for them to have a career unless it impacted the smooth operation of the home. If you are a professional man who is 20 or 30 now and you want to get married, your expectations are going to be different. If you just want sex, it's never been easier to find a willing partner. Of the men that I have known who have been with someone that much more attractive but who they didn't particularly respect, it never works out, even if they sex was really good. Plenty of people deciding to have children or a buy a home without being married. Both marriage and divorce is down, but divorce is particularly down among what PP would call the "high status" men.

I can't speak for most men, but for myself and the group of men that I know enough to have some sense of their answer here, I don't think it's accurate that many are looking to swap for a second wife. Of course, it might also become more important at a certain age where drive levels depart more frequently.

First, let's make it clear that you are a woman, the one obsessed with high status men and low value women. Wealthy men cheat at exponentially higher rates than middle income ones, because of high ego and more opportunities. They do divorce a lot, simply because they have the means to divorce. They don't run away with the secretary, but with younger women who are better educated and better looking than their starter wives. I can come up with a huge list. My FIL was one of these guys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my circles, men marry the hot women with the great career. If you are in a highly educated professional group, you will see many of these women have it all: smoking hot, athletic, smart as a whip and a career to match (even if they mommy track or step back a bit when kids come along).

Those are the type of genetics intelligent men look for in a mate.

Now--if we are talking about a no-strings thing or frivolous temporary girlfriends, they don't care if they are as dumb as a bunch of rocks.

GD can we please retire smart as a whip? It makes you sound stupid, it is only used for women and never men, and is about as old and dusty as calling a women a "badass." You might as well use the term rockstar while you're at it.

[Anonymous]

It's true. Men care about your looks, and your personality. Are you thin, and attractive? (Luckily, "attractive" is in the eye of the beholder.) Are you kind, cooperative, and easy to be around? A man wants a woman who creates peace in his life above all. Who brings calm, tranquility. That is why a man will go for the woman with the associates degree over the woman with a JD. She is a lot more fun, a lot more easy, to be around. It's all about her looks, and her ability to create peace and calm. That is the cold, hard truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my circle women’s college and profession matters but once married, it’s usually her decision if she wants to work or stay home after kids, men are okay with both choices. Men with high IQ tend to enjoy beauty but they crave intelligence.

Same.

This is what I've noticed. Career accomplishments optional, education not.

All things said "education"/ "intelligence"/ "success" is shorthand for other capacities and character traits that may come in handy when building a life with someone.

No. Educated men generally marry educated women because they meet them in school or in the same social circles. But education is not a must-have criteria. Most men would trade in an educated woman whose looks had declined for a hot, kind, great-in-bed woman. In fact, high status men often do just that after divorcing their first wife.

I guess they don't care if they have dumb children. Mother's education/intelligence greatly impacts the child's intelligence.

Except most "high status" men don't divorce. I also think the stereotype of the partner running away with his secretary is somewhat dying because of a sea change of gender roles. Divorces peaked in the late 1970s and early 1980s because you had a clash of expectations. Certainly, women worked before then, but it was much seen as a long-term, fulfilling career. By the 70s and 80s, men tended to view a wife's career as something of a side hobby. Great for them to have a career unless it impacted the smooth operation of the home. If you are a professional man who is 20 or 30 now and you want to get married, your expectations are going to be different. If you just want sex, it's never been easier to find a willing partner. Of the men that I have known who have been with someone that much more attractive but who they didn't particularly respect, it never works out, even if they sex was really good. Plenty of people deciding to have children or a buy a home without being married. Both marriage and divorce is down, but divorce is particularly down among what PP would call the "high status" men.

I can't speak for most men, but for myself and the group of men that I know enough to have some sense of their answer here, I don't think it's accurate that many are looking to swap for a second wife. Of course, it might also become more important at a certain age where drive levels depart more frequently.

First, let's make it clear that you are a woman, the one obsessed with high status men and low value women. Wealthy men cheat at exponentially higher rates than middle income ones, because of high ego and more opportunities. They do divorce a lot, simply because they have the means to divorce. They don't run away with the secretary, but with younger women who are better educated and better looking than their starter wives. I can come up with a huge list. My FIL was one of these guys.

I'm a man. See bold.

I'm not sure why you think I have a particular interest in high status men. I'm just responding to PP suggesting that most men are looking to trade up. And regardless of the anecdotal evidence you may know, the truth is that divorce rates are falling and are under 30% for high-income marriages after 25.

[Anonymous]

I’ve seen men falling in love with quite plain women so even though I think most want looks, not everyone does.

[Anonymous]

Divorce rate is really low among college educated high earners.