What is the real reason MCPS uses Lottery for Middle School Magnet Program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s really a bummer they can just do leveled classrooms anymore. Then kids stay in their homeschools and get enriched instruction there. Sorting by ability is out though, sadly. It’s a mess.

unfortunately leveled classrooms have the same equity issues

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really a bummer they can just do leveled classrooms anymore. Then kids stay in their homeschools and get enriched instruction there. Sorting by ability is out though, sadly. It’s a mess.

unfortunately leveled classrooms have the same equity issues

There is no such thing as equity. We need to meet all kids needs were they are at. Forcing kids into classes they cannot handle and aren't successful in is not equity. Forcing kids in too slow classes where they are bored and then misbehave is not equity either.

[Anonymous]

There is nothing wrong with setting a high bar. Some kids will work hard for a C-. If their best effort earns a C- then so be it.

That is FAR better than not challenging them to put in their best effort.

And it gives some then chance to discover that they actually CAN do work at the level.

The endless arrogance that some kids should never be asked to work hard because you assume they can't do the work is disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM is so nice right now without all the trolls.

We have at least 4 right now. Maybe I'm missing one.

1) lottery troll
2) restorative justice troll
3) SRO troll
4) anti-vax anti-mask troll

Items 2, 3, 4 are just crazy-town. Not really thrilled about the lottery but it's also not the end of the world.

For the children who could have been world-class competitors, it certainly didn't do them any favors. Montgomery County is not in a bubble. Either the children are ready for global competition, or they are not. If you think a lottery will make any difference, you're wrong. If anything it will increase the equity difference.

Before the lottery, kids knew that only the absolute best were selected. If a kid worked hard or was a savant, they won the golden ticket. It meant something.

Now the Magnet program is nothing but a Las Vegas casino, and just as tacky. The Magnet program now teaches to the class anchors. This only breeds resentment amongst peers and demoralizes the students dragging everyone else behind. In the mean time, the local CES now have the majority of high-flyers. The parents who can are just paying for tutors, special program classes, and other things that leapfrog their children ahead of the others.

And the assessment is off. You forgot a few trolls as well. "The only reason why kids get 99+ on CogAT and get into the Magnet program is because the parents send the kid to prep courses troll", or "the crazy boundary maps look fine troll", or the MCPS "Everything is Awesome" troll?

You can ignore these threads if they bother you that much. Parents want to talk about this. If you want to make a point - make it - or move on.

[Anonymous]

The Magnet program now teaches to the class anchors.
[i]

And there it is in a nutshell. You presume that instructors tack in circles and wait for slow learners to trim while the rest of the class gets nowhere.

In my school days (graph paper and text books) our instructors just said "Well, you've already got this down. Just take these handouts and read ahead. Come see me if you need to. And if you don't ever need me then you're in the wrong classroom."

I REALLY REALLY don't get this whole resentment thing...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM is so nice right now without all the trolls.

We have at least 4 right now. Maybe I'm missing one.

1) lottery troll
2) restorative justice troll
3) SRO troll
4) anti-vax anti-mask troll

Items 2, 3, 4 are just crazy-town. Not really thrilled about the lottery but it's also not the end of the world.

For the children who could have been world-class competitors, it certainly didn't do them any favors. Montgomery County is not in a bubble. Either the children are ready for global competition, or they are not. If you think a lottery will make any difference, you're wrong. If anything it will increase the equity difference.

Before the lottery, kids knew that only the absolute best were selected. If a kid worked hard or was a savant, they won the golden ticket. It meant something.

Now the Magnet program is nothing but a Las Vegas casino, and just as tacky. The Magnet program now teaches to the class anchors. This only breeds resentment amongst peers and demoralizes the students dragging everyone else behind. In the mean time, the local CES now have the majority of high-flyers. The parents who can are just paying for tutors, special program classes, and other things that leapfrog their children ahead of the others.

And the assessment is off. You forgot a few trolls as well. "The only reason why kids get 99+ on CogAT and get into the Magnet program is because the parents send the kid to prep courses troll", or "the crazy boundary maps look fine troll", or the MCPS "Everything is Awesome" troll?

You can ignore these threads if they bother you that much. Parents want to talk about this. If you want to make a point - make it - or move on.

This year's 4th and 6th graders are the only magnet students to have gone through the lottery process, and they're in their first semester of in-person school since the middle of 2nd / 4th grade. So maybe, just maybe, you're overreacting a bit? Or making some unreasonable assumptions? Just a thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM is so nice right now without all the trolls.

We have at least 4 right now. Maybe I'm missing one.

1) lottery troll
2) restorative justice troll
3) SRO troll
4) anti-vax anti-mask troll

Items 2, 3, 4 are just crazy-town. Not really thrilled about the lottery but it's also not the end of the world.

You forgot the Covid deniers too.

[Anonymous]

The programs used to look for kids who were true outliers. Now we seem to think that the top 25% are outliers and need special programs. If we want to have a program for the top 25% in can be in every school. No need for any lottery based magnet. It is compact math + a high reading group + enrichment.

[Anonymous]

Gosh, it does seem like *resentment* is the operative word here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The programs used to look for kids who were true outliers. Now we seem to think that the top 25% are outliers and need special programs. If we want to have a program for the top 25% in can be in every school. No need for any lottery based magnet. It is compact math + a high reading group + enrichment.

Yep, these programs as we knew them are no more...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what is the real reason MCPS BOE uses lottery for CES program?
Why can't it be the consistency of performance against benchmarks in elementary school? and/or likewise consistency of performance in middle school for highschool magnet program

Are they using Lottery for selection into sports and games teams as well instead of performance benchmarks? or is the lottery exclusive for academic programs?

I agree with you. If academic programs are lotteries. Why can't other competitive programs (like sports teams, student government positions, etc.) be lotteries. My kid didn't make the basketball team and is pretty down about it. In his opinion half the kids they took were a lot better than him. The other half were only marginally better, and he thought that if he had a week or so for the coach to see him play, that the coach would have picked him over at least 2 of the guys. Might as well move everything in mcps to a lottery since we are only concerned about equity.

Can someone please provide counter arguments to this? I have never read anything good about the sports issue. The make up of the sports teams do not reflect the diversity of MCPS or the diversity of those trying out. A lot of Asian-American and a few Latino kids tried out for a fall sport at our school but zero made it. The teams are all white or black.

[Anonymous]

I call Bull.

Name the MCPS school with no Latino kids on the soccer team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The programs used to look for kids who were true outliers. Now we seem to think that the top 25% are outliers and need special programs. If we want to have a program for the top 25% in can be in every school. No need for any lottery based magnet. It is compact math + a high reading group + enrichment.

Yep, these programs as we knew them are no more...

I know right? We cannot game the system anymore.
Oh well, time to move to VA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They don’t want to get sued.

They do not want to get sued for what? Is this a relavent post?

Yes, it is. They want to avoid the legal problems of TJ and Harvard. I recall there also was similar legal action against TPMS the first year they changed the criteria.

I wonder what happened to those lawsuits. But MCPS is going equity over excellence route.

seems like they are choosing excellence but not at the expense of equity which is what many of the tigers want them to do

It is your guess right? MCPS claims that they do this for equity over excellence in the lawsuit. There is a link in the earlier thread for your to read. Do you care?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Define qualified...if you want to have a program for the top students, there is always a group at the top.

This is the fundamental misunderstanding of the CES program. It is not supposed to be for the "top students" in the school system. It was designed to meet the academic needs of students whose needs couldn't be met in their home elementary school. This really doesn't mean the top academic performers, it means students who learn differently, at a faster pace than their peers, and who thrive on independence and complex thinking. As more and more students over the years demonstrated they would benefit from the enriched curriculum, they began offering that curriculum at home schools, rather than shipping an entire class of 4th graders to a different school.

If parents stopped treating the CES as a coveted prize to be won by a select few students, and instead focused on advocating for better enriched curriculum (and GT trained teachers) at their school, everyone would be better off.

I remember the shouting match in 2016 that was in news. my recollection is different from how you perceived it