Did Ellen Greenberg’s fiancé kill her?

[Anonymous]

Definitely possible. Also possible she was anxious and withdrawn not due to her partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Definitely possible. Also possible she was anxious and withdrawn not due to her partner.

It’s still not physically possible for her to have done it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Definitely possible. Also possible she was anxious and withdrawn not due to her partner.

It’s still not physically possible for her to have done it.

Especially the stab wound to the head that occurred after her heart stopped beating.

Her poor parents.

[Anonymous]

How have I not heard about this? Just looked it up. Fascinating! Someone should do a documentary on this

[Anonymous]

Me again. On the one hand this definitely seems like a murder. But this article raises a some doubt. Mainly the hesitation wounds and also she was under the care of a psychiatrist. Plus the parents said no sign of abuse. But who would do that to themselves and how even?
https://www.oxygen.com/crime-time/ellen-greenberg-philadelphia-teacher-death-still-stokes-questions-from-family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah I do know something about state courts. I’m a PA litigator unfortunately lol
I think you’ve watched too many tv shows

No, I’m a litigator, too. There are so many corrupt judges. I can’t believe you haven’t noticed that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah I do know something about state courts. I’m a PA litigator unfortunately lol
I think you’ve watched too many tv shows

No, I’m a litigator, too. There are so many corrupt judges. I can’t believe you haven’t noticed that!

Especially the elected state ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Me again. On the one hand this definitely seems like a murder. But this article raises a some doubt. Mainly the hesitation wounds and also she was under the care of a psychiatrist. Plus the parents said no sign of abuse. But who would do that to themselves and how even?
https://www.oxygen.com/crime-time/ellen-greenberg-philadelphia-teacher-death-still-stokes-questions-from-family

Her psychiatrist has repeatedly stated that she was not suicidal!

She had defensive wounds on her wrists!

Also, when people use a knife to commit suicide they slash their wrists. They don’t stab themselves 20 times. That’s overkill. That type of overkill is always personal and shows rage, not suicide.

I cannot believe the circles people will run to call this violent murder a suicide. My heart aches for her poor parents!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah I do know something about state courts. I’m a PA litigator unfortunately lol
I think you’ve watched too many tv shows

No, I’m a litigator, too. There are so many corrupt judges. I can’t believe you haven’t noticed that!

Incompetent, yes. Some corrupt but not in this way. Just dumb and self serving at worst. I don’t care what the hired experts say. Anyone in litigation knows you can find (pay) experts to say anything. Dr Lee is the worst.

Also not that impressed with her psychiatrist’s opinion. They miss things. I’ve actually defended a psychologist who was sued for malpractice for failing to stop a suicide of a college girl.

I feel awful for her poor parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah I do know something about state courts. I’m a PA litigator unfortunately lol
I think you’ve watched too many tv shows

No, I’m a litigator, too. There are so many corrupt judges. I can’t believe you haven’t noticed that!

Incompetent, yes. Some corrupt but not in this way. Just dumb and self serving at worst. I don’t care what the hired experts say. Anyone in litigation knows you can find (pay) experts to say anything. Dr Lee is the worst.

Also not that impressed with her psychiatrist’s opinion. They miss things. I’ve actually defended a psychologist who was sued for malpractice for failing to stop a suicide of a college girl.

I feel awful for her poor parents.

By “incompetent” do you mean like these PA judges?

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/18/1118108084/michael-conahan-mark-ciavarella-kids-for-cash

Are you really this obtruse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah I do know something about state courts. I’m a PA litigator unfortunately lol
I think you’ve watched too many tv shows

No, I’m a litigator, too. There are so many corrupt judges. I can’t believe you haven’t noticed that!

Incompetent, yes. Some corrupt but not in this way. Just dumb and self serving at worst. I don’t care what the hired experts say. Anyone in litigation knows you can find (pay) experts to say anything. Dr Lee is the worst.

Also not that impressed with her psychiatrist’s opinion. They miss things. I’ve actually defended a psychologist who was sued for malpractice for failing to stop a suicide of a college girl.

I feel awful for her poor parents.

By “incompetent” do you mean like these PA judges?

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/18/1118108084/michael-conahan-mark-ciavarella-kids-for-cash

Are you really this obtruse?

I meant obtuse. My autocorrect is awful.

Either way, I think you’re faking it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol I’ve never met Sam or his family. Actually know nothing about them. I’m Just sharing what Ive heard from someone who actually knew her.

You know someone who knew her who said she had mental health problems? Name names are you’re full of bs.

Here’s an interview from a friend of Ellen’s who isn’t hiding behind a keyboard. She says Ellen was mentally healthy and happy. I believe her.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/ellen-greenberg-suicide-philadelphia-teacher-excited-life-never-spoke-self-harm-friend.amp

It’s pretty disgusting to reignite a zombie thread about a murdered girl. I didn’t know Ellen, but I’m genuinely outraged!

Wow I certainly didn’t mean to outrage you! Are you connected to Ellen? I don’t know if he murdered her or not. My friend went to high school with Ellen. I cannot name her name, that would be unfair as she has never spoken publicly. But she said Ellen definitely had mental health issues dating back to high school. I’m not saying they were severe or suicidal, but definitely issues. My friend thinks is was probably suicide. I really don’t know what to think. I have followed this story over the years and live in Philadelphia so it’s been covered pretty consistently. There are experts who say it’s possible she did it, although I agree it’s difficult to believe. I have a passing interest in unsolved crime cases like many people and assumed this was a venue to discuss without causing outrage

No, I’m not connected to Ellen. I said that from the start. I’ve followed the case on and off for years, because I was also (at around the same time) once engaged to an abusive man. And yes, it also caused me to have anxiety. Who would have thought that being with an abuser causes anxiety, lol?

But I didn’t really dig into it until the recent appellate decision against her poor parents.

I couldn’t fathom what the f was going on. And then I see who Sam Goldberg’s uncle is, James Schwartman, a former US District Attorney and now a judge in charge of the Disciplinary Board of the PA Supreme Court. I learn how immediately after her death, this uncle collected Ellen’s personal computer and phone before handing it over to the police several days later. And then I come to find out that Sam’s dad ran a confidential document destruction plant in Delaware. I also learn that one of the original medical experts who allegedly ruled that it was a suicide, has testified in court that she never reviewed the case. Perhaps, you can’t put two and two together, but I can.

I don’t care how boy crazy or emotional or depressed your friend says Ellen was in high school. She didn’t stab herself in the heart after she’d already severed her spinal cord.

There’s no mystery here, just a lot of corruption.

There is no need to personally insult me. I have no personal interest in the matter. Clearly you are triggered by it. I have all the sympathy for people who are abused, whether mentally or physically, by their partners. Is there actual evidence he was abusive? Im genuinely curious. Perhaps he was, I know it can be very difficult for friends and family to identify abuse. To my knowledge, there is no evidence but I’m not sure about that.

I don’t believe there was a coverup to the extent you do. But Like I said, it’s a crazy case. Nothing really makes sense about it to me either way. I can’t come up with a theory that fits or makes sense.

Nobody insulted you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ellen Greenberg was killed on Jan. 26, 2011 and Sam Goldberg married Caroline Schnay in early January 2014, just 3 years later, when Sam was 31 and Caroline was 32. Can you imagine being like, OK, so, your former fiance died of suicide by self-inflicted stab wounds? Sounds reasonable, I'm saying yes to the dress.

I don’t think this is fair. People grieve and move on, I know of people in loving relationships who were widowed and remarried shortly thereafter.

+1. 3 years is not 3 months. It’s sufficient time to grieve and meet someone else and remarry - especially for someone in their late 20s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ellen Greenberg was killed on Jan. 26, 2011 and Sam Goldberg married Caroline Schnay in early January 2014, just 3 years later, when Sam was 31 and Caroline was 32. Can you imagine being like, OK, so, your former fiance died of suicide by self-inflicted stab wounds? Sounds reasonable, I'm saying yes to the dress.

I don’t think this is fair. People grieve and move on, I know of people in loving relationships who were widowed and remarried shortly thereafter.

+1. 3 years is not 3 months. It’s sufficient time to grieve and meet someone else and remarry - especially for someone in their late 20s.

Except the part where he is a murderer.

[Anonymous]

I was totally on board with this being a murder until I read that Oxygen story. It sounds to me like the grieving parents are trying to convince themselves and the world that it isn’t suicide, not because suicide is not possible or even not indicated here but because it’s sometimes easier to focus on exterior factors (solving a mystery, finding justice) than dealing with the real tragedy of a depressed, probably mis-medicated young woman. It is so, so sad. But even that diagram of the stab wounds from several pages back, which first had me convinced it was a murder, seems more like evidence for suicide. It’s super hard to stab yourself in the mid or lower back. But not that hard to reach the back of your head or base of your skull. It looks to me like she was in a frenzy.