Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

I know more about that history than most people on this thread. Guarantee you.

Including the fact that Palestinians have never had a sovereign state called “Palestine.”

That doesn’t mean they’re not entitled to one now. I think they are.

But the history just isn’t there like it is for the Jews.

My favorite “rebuttal” is when people point to Syria Palaestina as though it was some sort of independent Palestinian, Muslim entity. It was a Roman province formed from the Kingdom of Judea, when they conquered and expelled the Jews. It had mostly Romans. Some Arabic, Phonecian, and Syrian people briefly lived there, but by the 5th century AD it was majority Christian.

This is quite interesting. It reminds me of Northern Greeks wrapping themselves in the identity of ancient Macedonia when ethnically, they are of the same Albanian lineage folks across the border. That sort of thing.

It's all fascinating but our dear PP friend left out the Philistines. However if the Palestinians are the Philistines and the Israelis are the Israelites then according to the archeological record the Israelis are indigenous (no exodus) while the Palestinians were settled there from Crete by Egypt 3000 years ago.

It's insane. It's truly all insane.

? Is there any evidence Palestinians are related to the Philistines?

Actually, I think this is a known thing. The ancient Philistines are the Palestinians -- I would distance myself too, given the what 'philistine' means as an adjective.

No it’s not. The Philistines basically disappeared as a people quite a long time ago, into the Persian empire.

They seem to be one of MANY groups that left a fingerprint. TBH Palestinians may be one of the least distinct groups I've ever seen. Wow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians

That’s because there was no such thing as a Palestinian as a self-identifying Muslim community until more recently.

Functionally, they are simply the people living in Palestine.

One could have been a Palestinian Jew in Mandatory Palestine and indeed there were 500,000 of them there. A common refrain during the pre-WWII period was to tell Jews to “go back to Palestine.” There were also a lot of Palestinian Christians.

This is actually how I think of Palestine. However, it seems like both the Jews and Christians dispersed and who was left claiming it is the Muslim community that has become ever more dominant in its affairs?

Nope. In 1945, there were 1 million Palestinian Arabs and 500,000 Palestinian Jews in Mandatory Palestine.

I meant recently. But tell us more about Palestinian Jews. I'm curious about their trajectory. Where are they today, and how do they identify?

They’re just Jews. There’s nothing inherently ethnic about Palestinian. It’s geographic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:There is no chance Israel would purposely target that hospital hours before the US president is scheduled to arrive. It is a well known hospital. It's been there for years. It's a Christian hospital. It's largely staffed by Doctors Without Borders. Israel is not targeting that building.

Abbas has just cancelled his meeting with Biden and the West Bank is presently rioting. This hospital strike is working out very well for Hamas.

I would hope that is the case (that Israel did not authorize this barbaric attack). Mainstream media are reporting it as carried out by Israel though.

It sounds more like a a Russian move (they bombed hospitals and clinics in Syria also). Russians were recorded training HAMAS fighters.

Is there any proof as to whom authorized this terrible act?

CNN headline said it was Israel. Now read the body of the article….

What a strange twist of events when Al Jazeera is supporting the Israeli side, and CNN is supporting the Palestinian perspective regarding this hospital bombing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We've reached the "who bombed the hospital" phase two days early. We can proceed to "we were unprepared for the challenge of house-to-house urban warfare" followed by "whose fault is it that these children are starving"?

huh?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one curious to know the age/race/income/education level of some of the posters on this board? I find it all fascinating from a sociological perspective.

I 100% condemn Israel's atrocities. They are war criminals. I am 40+, female, attorney, and make a good amount of money. The more education you have about the region, the more likely you are to understand that Israel is not a good actor.

My far right Christian neighbors, however, believe that Israel has the second coming of Christ on their side and God is working with them to destroy Muslims.

There is a large discrepancy in education here.

Interesting. Similar age/income/education here and couldn't disagree more.

Are you Jewish?

Most of my friends with higher levels of education and having any level or insight into the region have understood that Israel has created an apartheid state. The only lawyers that I know that disagree with me are Jewish.

Are you in public interest or government? Makes sense if so.

Most private practice/corporate attorneys I know are anti-Hamas, anti-terrorist (but would like to see a 2 state solution).

In private practice and also anti-terrorist, which is why I do not support Israel.

Fascinating that you made the leap to "do not support Israel".

From the river to the sea, huh?

You saw all the marches here supporting Hamas’ actions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:https://x.com/AdamBienkov/status/1714382690420449586?s=20

Israel keeps lying.

Plus, none of Hamas prior rockets have had anywhere near the capacity of this one. Now all of a sudden they have the capacity to obliterate a hospital.

Israel are lying.

Exactly! They took credit for killing a lot of terrorist when they first bombed the hospital. Posted a tweet they later deleted. Once they found out how many civilians had been killed there stated blaming Hamas. The Israeli government is no better than Hamas.

US media will report whatever Israel says. If you do not toe the line you will be off the air. See MSNBC and wealthy Harvard alumni. Are people still saying Israel did not target the refugees convoys?

Now, now, that attitude is not helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Formal education and income aside, I've noticed that it's generally people on the anti-Israel side who seem really ignorant about basic things.
Like not realizing that Jordan is a country, as opposed to someone's surname, not realizing that there are non-Jews in Israel, not realizing that Jews don't all wear kippas,

I've notice that pro-Israel people barely ever seem to know anything about the Ottoman Empire and its involvement in the history of both the Jews and the Palestinians.

I know more about that history than most people on this thread. Guarantee you.

Including the fact that Palestinians have never had a sovereign state called “Palestine.”

That doesn’t mean they’re not entitled to one now. I think they are.

But the history just isn’t there like it is for the Jews.

My favorite “rebuttal” is when people point to Syria Palaestina as though it was some sort of independent Palestinian, Muslim entity. It was a Roman province formed from the Kingdom of Judea, when they conquered and expelled the Jews. It had mostly Romans. Some Arabic, Phonecian, and Syrian people briefly lived there, but by the 5th century AD it was majority Christian.

This is quite interesting. It reminds me of Northern Greeks wrapping themselves in the identity of ancient Macedonia when ethnically, they are of the same Albanian lineage folks across the border. That sort of thing.

It's all fascinating but our dear PP friend left out the Philistines. However if the Palestinians are the Philistines and the Israelis are the Israelites then according to the archeological record the Israelis are indigenous (no exodus) while the Palestinians were settled there from Crete by Egypt 3000 years ago.

It's insane. It's truly all insane.

? Is there any evidence Palestinians are related to the Philistines?

Actually, I think this is a known thing. The ancient Philistines are the Palestinians -- I would distance myself too, given the what 'philistine' means as an adjective.

No it’s not. The Philistines basically disappeared as a people quite a long time ago, into the Persian empire.

They seem to be one of MANY groups that left a fingerprint. TBH Palestinians may be one of the least distinct groups I've ever seen. Wow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians

That’s because there was no such thing as a Palestinian as a self-identifying Muslim community until more recently.

Functionally, they are simply the people living in Palestine.

One could have been a Palestinian Jew in Mandatory Palestine and indeed there were 500,000 of them there. A common refrain during the pre-WWII period was to tell Jews to “go back to Palestine.” There were also a lot of Palestinian Christians.

This is actually how I think of Palestine. However, it seems like both the Jews and Christians dispersed and who was left claiming it is the Muslim community that has become ever more dominant in its affairs?

Nope. In 1945, there were 1 million Palestinian Arabs and 500,000 Palestinian Jews in Mandatory Palestine.

I meant recently. But tell us more about Palestinian Jews. I'm curious about their trajectory. Where are they today, and how do they identify?

They’re just Jews. There’s nothing inherently ethnic about Palestinian. It’s geographic.

One can make the argument that Jewish and Arabs were all stateless and didn’t have any state prior to WW2.

The Ottoman Empire controlled the whole Middle East. There was no such thing as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, Palestine back in 1917.

The Arab nationalist and Jewish nationalist movements both came at the same time. Late 19th century-Early 20th century.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We've reached the "who bombed the hospital" phase two days early. We can proceed to "we were unprepared for the challenge of house-to-house urban warfare" followed by "whose fault is it that these children are starving"?

The White House is staying mum. They know. As do military experts from across the world. The Arabs have canceled the summits. The administration can hold the bag on this catastrophe, including American Boots on the ground.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I noted that as soon as the hospital was hit, Hamas blamed Israel. Immediately.

Israel's response was - "we need to research this before responding." They looked for video evidence, drone evidence and other evidence and it showed that the rocket was fired from within Gaza.

But, the media believed the terrorists. With no evidence.

big surprise.

The western media have been nothing but pure Israeli mouth pieces. Israel bombed a Reuters news team in Lebanon and Reuters even refused to say who did it. They just said that their reporter was killed by rockets coming from the direction of Israel. Because media can never hold Israel accountable.

It is part of the Israeli fascism. And employers here will fire anyone who shows even a modicum of support for Palestine. And who's the persecuted group?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So are the same people in this thread who said that the beheaded babies were Israeli propaganda also uncritically repeating Hamas claims about the origin of the rocket and hospital strike? It’s hard to take people seriously when they only promote propaganda from one side. And that goes for both sides.

I guess in general, please be careful about calling one side or the other perpetuators of atrocities without hard evidence. I know emotions are high and that’s hard to do but if you are asking the other side to stop promoting what you consider propaganda, please be as rigorous with your own side. I’ve failed this too before and I’m trying to be better. I know nobody is perfect. But please try.

Israel has already removed videos it posted on Twitter after they realized the time stamp was not correct for the strike on the hospital. Who knows what happened right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've reached the "who bombed the hospital" phase two days early. We can proceed to "we were unprepared for the challenge of house-to-house urban warfare" followed by "whose fault is it that these children are starving"?

The White House is staying mum. They know. As do military experts from across the world. The Arabs have canceled the summits. The administration can hold the bag on this catastrophe, including American Boots on the ground.

Quite the opposite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I noted that as soon as the hospital was hit, Hamas blamed Israel. Immediately.

Israel's response was - "we need to research this before responding." They looked for video evidence, drone evidence and other evidence and it showed that the rocket was fired from within Gaza.

But, the media believed the terrorists. With no evidence.

LOL that's because Israel is in fact bombing Gaza so it's not a big stretch to believe they've hit a hospital in an incredibly dense urban environment.

You can't install an extra toilet in Gaza without displacing someone and people say stupid things like "hiding behind the civilians."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I noted that as soon as the hospital was hit, Hamas blamed Israel. Immediately.

Israel's response was - "we need to research this before responding." They looked for video evidence, drone evidence and other evidence and it showed that the rocket was fired from within Gaza.

But, the media believed the terrorists. With no evidence.

WTF. That was NOT their response. Their response was that terrorists were hiding there, and then they deleted it.

Israeli officials admitted it and we believed them

You keep saying that. I have not seen the tweet or the screenshot. Could you post it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've reached the "who bombed the hospital" phase two days early. We can proceed to "we were unprepared for the challenge of house-to-house urban warfare" followed by "whose fault is it that these children are starving"?

The White House is staying mum. They know. As do military experts from across the world. The Arabs have canceled the summits. The administration can hold the bag on this catastrophe, including American Boots on the ground.

FFS we just got there and now we own this??

[Anonymous]

What we've been saying all along - and as the reporter states. Hamas' rockets have not traditionally shown to have the capacity to wipe out entire buildings. They do not do the same damage as Israeli firepower. It is highly unlikely that a Hamas rocket can cause this level of destruction.

Israel admitted it, then deleted, then provided falsified evidence, then deleted some more. I mean, why does anyone actually beleive them at this point?

https://x.com/MirzaMahan/status/1714377238823469399?s=20

[Anonymous]

They have so much in common.

Shalom Aleichem
Salam Alaikum

It’s sad they hate each other . Hebrew and Arabic are practically the same language .