Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.
Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.
The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.
The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”
So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.
+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.
That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.
War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.
So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?
Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?
What are we asking Israelis to do something American's wouldn't? So far deaths in Gaza and in the thousands. The body count Americans exacted after 9/11 (including from an uninvolved country just because) ran into the hundreds of thousands
This is a reductionist, and a frankly bad, argument. Many of us think the U.S. response to 9/11 was also wrong. And I think the 20+ years of history since then has clearly proved that it was the wrong reaction.
OK. And I'm sure Israel is willing to suffer the same consequences that the US government and military suffered for those hundreds of thousands of civilians- i.e. none.
Unfortunately for Israel, it's not the U.S. and its geopolitical reality is that it's surrounded by hostile neighbors who are apparently willing to join the hostilities under the right circumstances. So it actually might see some pretty bad consequences.
Fortunately for Israel, the US cares more about Israeli security than it's hostile neighbors existence and the US has experience toppling middle eastern governments and letting countries descend into lawless hell holes. Do you think the Jordanian government looks at Iraq and thinking that looks fun?
Are you suggesting that the U.S. is going to topple Middle Eastern governments in defense of Israel? It will not. There's not popular support for that, and that's a good thing.
Have you seen the polling? Americans would absolutely support going to war with any country that tries to intervene against Israel and the US going to war would topple that government
Hahahahaha
Do you hear anyone opposing two carrier battle groups being stationed off the coast of Israel? Who has spoken out over an MEU moving to the Eastern Med? We're deploying 2k troops to Israel, have you heard anyone objecting? If Iran decides to attack or if Syria tries to do something, do you think they're there to observe?
It's called posturing dummy! The US has immense interest in the region, it cannot afford a war in a region where the world's oil supply lies, a war it is most definitely not prepared for. It's the surrounding countries, beginning with the Saudis, that hold all the cards, not Israel.
Exactly. Also, polls are one thing but when our own sons/daughters start dying on the ground, Americans will want Biden’s hide as they should. I hope this stays to posturing only, this is not our circus, not our monkeys.
+1. And that's why I said American polling now, when our military is sitting on a carrier in the eastern Mediterranean, is different than American polling when an actual, real-life ground war is on the table. Americans are not going to support their kids going to the Middle East to die again, nor should they.
Why do people assume a ground war with tons of American casualties. The last few governments that we've toppled (Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan) have been relatively free from casualties. Rebuilding the latter where extremely costly in terms of lives and money. Just letting the former burn cost us almost nothing.
The U.S. toppling a ME government in this context is going to cause serious broader geopolitical and/or military consequences, including potentially involvement from other countries outside the area. If you think it's going to be an isolated, easy thing to do that "costs us almost nothing", you are very, very wrong. Despite the U.S. posturing on this, Biden's foreign policy and military advisors are smart enough to know this. And Biden is not going to crash his chances at re-election and get the U.S. involved in protracted military action over Israel.
If Iran attacks Israel, Biden will respond with military force. If Syria attacks Israel, Biden will respond with military force if Israel requests it.
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.
Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.
The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.
The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”
So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.
+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.
That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.
War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.
So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?
Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?
What are we asking Israelis to do something American's wouldn't? So far deaths in Gaza and in the thousands. The body count Americans exacted after 9/11 (including from an uninvolved country just because) ran into the hundreds of thousands
This is a reductionist, and a frankly bad, argument. Many of us think the U.S. response to 9/11 was also wrong. And I think the 20+ years of history since then has clearly proved that it was the wrong reaction.
OK. And I'm sure Israel is willing to suffer the same consequences that the US government and military suffered for those hundreds of thousands of civilians- i.e. none.
Unfortunately for Israel, it's not the U.S. and its geopolitical reality is that it's surrounded by hostile neighbors who are apparently willing to join the hostilities under the right circumstances. So it actually might see some pretty bad consequences.
Fortunately for Israel, the US cares more about Israeli security than it's hostile neighbors existence and the US has experience toppling middle eastern governments and letting countries descend into lawless hell holes. Do you think the Jordanian government looks at Iraq and thinking that looks fun?
Are you suggesting that the U.S. is going to topple Middle Eastern governments in defense of Israel? It will not. There's not popular support for that, and that's a good thing.
Have you seen the polling? Americans would absolutely support going to war with any country that tries to intervene against Israel and the US going to war would topple that government
Hahahahaha
In theory. There's no way that, facing down an another, real-life ground war (especially in the Middle East), the American public is going to support it. Look at what's going on in Ukraine.
Why do you assume that it would be a real-life ground war?
Wars are won on the ground. Ask the US how it did in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. The only way for Israel, a country with a very small population, is either compromise or go Nuclear.
Nah. If the objective is to keep Syria out of the war, the US can eliminate their leadership from a distance. One of those carriers could get rid of what is left of the Syrian army relatively quickly. We could recognize one of the militias as the legitimate government and never have a soldier on the ground. You need boots on the ground if you care about rebuilding a country, if the goal is to just prevent them from intervening in a war then you can decapitate the government and leave what is left to deal with the chaos left behind.
You live in some kind of fantasy world where you think you are going to eliminate Syria's leadership, and Lebanon's leadership and Iran's leadership, level the region, create hundreds of millions of refugees, and maintain free flow of oil without boots on the ground. You are going to need a draft actually.
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.
Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.
The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.
The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”
So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.
+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.
That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.
War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.
So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?
Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?
What are we asking Israelis to do something American's wouldn't? So far deaths in Gaza and in the thousands. The body count Americans exacted after 9/11 (including from an uninvolved country just because) ran into the hundreds of thousands
This is a reductionist, and a frankly bad, argument. Many of us think the U.S. response to 9/11 was also wrong. And I think the 20+ years of history since then has clearly proved that it was the wrong reaction.
OK. And I'm sure Israel is willing to suffer the same consequences that the US government and military suffered for those hundreds of thousands of civilians- i.e. none.
Unfortunately for Israel, it's not the U.S. and its geopolitical reality is that it's surrounded by hostile neighbors who are apparently willing to join the hostilities under the right circumstances. So it actually might see some pretty bad consequences.
Fortunately for Israel, the US cares more about Israeli security than it's hostile neighbors existence and the US has experience toppling middle eastern governments and letting countries descend into lawless hell holes. Do you think the Jordanian government looks at Iraq and thinking that looks fun?
Are you suggesting that the U.S. is going to topple Middle Eastern governments in defense of Israel? It will not. There's not popular support for that, and that's a good thing.
Have you seen the polling? Americans would absolutely support going to war with any country that tries to intervene against Israel and the US going to war would topple that government
Not if Biden wants to win. No chance in hell would I vote for him if there's American boots on the ground in Israel or Gaza.
Yup. No way I will vote for Biden if he sends American troops to Israel. American taxpayer is already working very hard to send billions of dollars to Israel, on top of that we don’t want to sacrifice our kids for Israel. If Biden is so desperate then he can send his own grandkids.
Totally agree. It's time for table talk not war. Foreign interference should focus on negotiations and humanitarian aid, not war and supporting sides.
Unless the negotiations lead to the death of Hamas leaders, I don't see why Israel would be interested.
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.
Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.
The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.
The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”
So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.
+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.
That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.
War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.
So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?
Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?
What are we asking Israelis to do something American's wouldn't? So far deaths in Gaza and in the thousands. The body count Americans exacted after 9/11 (including from an uninvolved country just because) ran into the hundreds of thousands
This is a reductionist, and a frankly bad, argument. Many of us think the U.S. response to 9/11 was also wrong. And I think the 20+ years of history since then has clearly proved that it was the wrong reaction.
OK. And I'm sure Israel is willing to suffer the same consequences that the US government and military suffered for those hundreds of thousands of civilians- i.e. none.
Unfortunately for Israel, it's not the U.S. and its geopolitical reality is that it's surrounded by hostile neighbors who are apparently willing to join the hostilities under the right circumstances. So it actually might see some pretty bad consequences.
Fortunately for Israel, the US cares more about Israeli security than it's hostile neighbors existence and the US has experience toppling middle eastern governments and letting countries descend into lawless hell holes. Do you think the Jordanian government looks at Iraq and thinking that looks fun?
Are you suggesting that the U.S. is going to topple Middle Eastern governments in defense of Israel? It will not. There's not popular support for that, and that's a good thing.
Have you seen the polling? Americans would absolutely support going to war with any country that tries to intervene against Israel and the US going to war would topple that government
Hahahahaha
Do you hear anyone opposing two carrier battle groups being stationed off the coast of Israel? Who has spoken out over an MEU moving to the Eastern Med? We're deploying 2k troops to Israel, have you heard anyone objecting? If Iran decides to attack or if Syria tries to do something, do you think they're there to observe?
It's called posturing dummy! The US has immense interest in the region, it cannot afford a war in a region where the world's oil supply lies, a war it is most definitely not prepared for. It's the surrounding countries, beginning with the Saudis, that hold all the cards, not Israel.
Exactly. Also, polls are one thing but when our own sons/daughters start dying on the ground, Americans will want Biden’s hide as they should. I hope this stays to posturing only, this is not our circus, not our monkeys.
+1. And that's why I said American polling now, when our military is sitting on a carrier in the eastern Mediterranean, is different than American polling when an actual, real-life ground war is on the table. Americans are not going to support their kids going to the Middle East to die again, nor should they.
Why do people assume a ground war with tons of American casualties. The last few governments that we've toppled (Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan) have been relatively free from casualties. Rebuilding the latter where extremely costly in terms of lives and money. Just letting the former burn cost us almost nothing.
The U.S. toppling a ME government in this context is going to cause serious broader geopolitical and/or military consequences, including potentially involvement from other countries outside the area. If you think it's going to be an isolated, easy thing to do that "costs us almost nothing", you are very, very wrong. Despite the U.S. posturing on this, Biden's foreign policy and military advisors are smart enough to know this. And Biden is not going to crash his chances at re-election and get the U.S. involved in protracted military action over Israel.
If Iran attacks Israel, Biden will respond with military force. If Syria attacks Israel, Biden will respond with military force if Israel requests it.
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.
Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.
The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.
The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”
So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.
+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.
That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.
War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.
So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?
Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?
Now y’all want mercy? (NP)
No, we want Israel to not indiscriminately kill civilians in Gaza. Why do you think this is permissible?
They are not indiscriminately killing civilians.
As you know by now, Hamas operates from civilian locations. In order to take out these brutal terrorists, some civilians are going to perish as well. Such as this attack:
Wouldn't it be nice if Hamas followed the rules of war and didn't imbed themselves in civilian locations?
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.
Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.
The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.
The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”
So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.
+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.
That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.
War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.
So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?
Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?
What are we asking Israelis to do something American's wouldn't? So far deaths in Gaza and in the thousands. The body count Americans exacted after 9/11 (including from an uninvolved country just because) ran into the hundreds of thousands
This is a reductionist, and a frankly bad, argument. Many of us think the U.S. response to 9/11 was also wrong. And I think the 20+ years of history since then has clearly proved that it was the wrong reaction.
OK. And I'm sure Israel is willing to suffer the same consequences that the US government and military suffered for those hundreds of thousands of civilians- i.e. none.
Unfortunately for Israel, it's not the U.S. and its geopolitical reality is that it's surrounded by hostile neighbors who are apparently willing to join the hostilities under the right circumstances. So it actually might see some pretty bad consequences.
Fortunately for Israel, the US cares more about Israeli security than it's hostile neighbors existence and the US has experience toppling middle eastern governments and letting countries descend into lawless hell holes. Do you think the Jordanian government looks at Iraq and thinking that looks fun?
Are you suggesting that the U.S. is going to topple Middle Eastern governments in defense of Israel? It will not. There's not popular support for that, and that's a good thing.
Have you seen the polling? Americans would absolutely support going to war with any country that tries to intervene against Israel and the US going to war would topple that government
Hahahahaha
Do you hear anyone opposing two carrier battle groups being stationed off the coast of Israel? Who has spoken out over an MEU moving to the Eastern Med? We're deploying 2k troops to Israel, have you heard anyone objecting? If Iran decides to attack or if Syria tries to do something, do you think they're there to observe?
It's called posturing dummy! The US has immense interest in the region, it cannot afford a war in a region where the world's oil supply lies, a war it is most definitely not prepared for. It's the surrounding countries, beginning with the Saudis, that hold all the cards, not Israel.
Exactly. Also, polls are one thing but when our own sons/daughters start dying on the ground, Americans will want Biden’s hide as they should. I hope this stays to posturing only, this is not our circus, not our monkeys.
+1. And that's why I said American polling now, when our military is sitting on a carrier in the eastern Mediterranean, is different than American polling when an actual, real-life ground war is on the table. Americans are not going to support their kids going to the Middle East to die again, nor should they.
Why do people assume a ground war with tons of American casualties. The last few governments that we've toppled (Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan) have been relatively free from casualties. Rebuilding the latter where extremely costly in terms of lives and money. Just letting the former burn cost us almost nothing.
The U.S. toppling a ME government in this context is going to cause serious broader geopolitical and/or military consequences, including potentially involvement from other countries outside the area. If you think it's going to be an isolated, easy thing to do that "costs us almost nothing", you are very, very wrong. Despite the U.S. posturing on this, Biden's foreign policy and military advisors are smart enough to know this. And Biden is not going to crash his chances at re-election and get the U.S. involved in protracted military action over Israel.
If Iran attacks Israel, Biden will respond with military force. If Syria attacks Israel, Biden will respond with military force if Israel requests it.
The response will be no broader than selective strikes, like on Syria. Israel becomes a protracted war front like Ukraine.
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.
Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.
The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.
The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”
So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.
+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.
That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.
War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.
So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?
Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?
What are we asking Israelis to do something American's wouldn't? So far deaths in Gaza and in the thousands. The body count Americans exacted after 9/11 (including from an uninvolved country just because) ran into the hundreds of thousands
This is a reductionist, and a frankly bad, argument. Many of us think the U.S. response to 9/11 was also wrong. And I think the 20+ years of history since then has clearly proved that it was the wrong reaction.
OK. And I'm sure Israel is willing to suffer the same consequences that the US government and military suffered for those hundreds of thousands of civilians- i.e. none.
Unfortunately for Israel, it's not the U.S. and its geopolitical reality is that it's surrounded by hostile neighbors who are apparently willing to join the hostilities under the right circumstances. So it actually might see some pretty bad consequences.
Fortunately for Israel, the US cares more about Israeli security than it's hostile neighbors existence and the US has experience toppling middle eastern governments and letting countries descend into lawless hell holes. Do you think the Jordanian government looks at Iraq and thinking that looks fun?
Are you suggesting that the U.S. is going to topple Middle Eastern governments in defense of Israel? It will not. There's not popular support for that, and that's a good thing.
Have you seen the polling? Americans would absolutely support going to war with any country that tries to intervene against Israel and the US going to war would topple that government
Hahahahaha
In theory. There's no way that, facing down an another, real-life ground war (especially in the Middle East), the American public is going to support it. Look at what's going on in Ukraine.
Why do you assume that it would be a real-life ground war?
Wars are won on the ground. Ask the US how it did in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. The only way for Israel, a country with a very small population, is either compromise or go Nuclear.
Nah. If the objective is to keep Syria out of the war, the US can eliminate their leadership from a distance. One of those carriers could get rid of what is left of the Syrian army relatively quickly. We could recognize one of the militias as the legitimate government and never have a soldier on the ground. You need boots on the ground if you care about rebuilding a country, if the goal is to just prevent them from intervening in a war then you can decapitate the government and leave what is left to deal with the chaos left behind.
You live in some kind of fantasy world where you think you are going to eliminate Syria's leadership, and Lebanon's leadership and Iran's leadership, level the region, create hundreds of millions of refugees, and maintain free flow of oil without boots on the ground. You are going to need a draft actually.
Who said Lebanon and Iran? Syria already has refugees. Turkey is keeping its border closed and the rest of the world does not care. Lebanon does not have a functional government. Hezbollah is the de fact government in Southern Lebanon and they are staying on the sidelines. They are doing the bare minimum to maintain credibility and not even a tiny bit more. The hope with Hamas was they they would be more interested in governing than terror. That hope was utterly misplaced, but it looks like Hezbollah may have gone that route.
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.
Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.
The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.
The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”
So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.
+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.
That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.
War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.
So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?
Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?
Now y’all want mercy? (NP)
No, we want Israel to not indiscriminately kill civilians in Gaza. Why do you think this is permissible?
They are not indiscriminately killing civilians.
As you know by now, Hamas operates from civilian locations. In order to take out these brutal terrorists, some civilians are going to perish as well. Such as this attack:
Wouldn't it be nice if Hamas followed the rules of war and didn't imbed themselves in civilian locations?
Bombing locations you know to be full of civilians— because you instructed them to mass there— is by definition indiscriminately killing civilians.
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.
Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.
The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.
The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”
So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.
+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.
That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.
War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.
So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?
Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?
What are we asking Israelis to do something American's wouldn't? So far deaths in Gaza and in the thousands. The body count Americans exacted after 9/11 (including from an uninvolved country just because) ran into the hundreds of thousands
This is a reductionist, and a frankly bad, argument. Many of us think the U.S. response to 9/11 was also wrong. And I think the 20+ years of history since then has clearly proved that it was the wrong reaction.
OK. And I'm sure Israel is willing to suffer the same consequences that the US government and military suffered for those hundreds of thousands of civilians- i.e. none.
Unfortunately for Israel, it's not the U.S. and its geopolitical reality is that it's surrounded by hostile neighbors who are apparently willing to join the hostilities under the right circumstances. So it actually might see some pretty bad consequences.
Fortunately for Israel, the US cares more about Israeli security than it's hostile neighbors existence and the US has experience toppling middle eastern governments and letting countries descend into lawless hell holes. Do you think the Jordanian government looks at Iraq and thinking that looks fun?
Are you suggesting that the U.S. is going to topple Middle Eastern governments in defense of Israel? It will not. There's not popular support for that, and that's a good thing.
Have you seen the polling? Americans would absolutely support going to war with any country that tries to intervene against Israel and the US going to war would topple that government
Not if Biden wants to win. No chance in hell would I vote for him if there's American boots on the ground in Israel or Gaza.
Yup. No way I will vote for Biden if he sends American troops to Israel. American taxpayer is already working very hard to send billions of dollars to Israel, on top of that we don’t want to sacrifice our kids for Israel. If Biden is so desperate then he can send his own grandkids.
Totally agree. It's time for table talk not war. Foreign interference should focus on negotiations and humanitarian aid, not war and supporting sides.
Unless the negotiations lead to the death of Hamas leaders, I don't see why Israel would be interested.
Israel would be interested because in that region, Israel is NOTHING without U.S support, if Israel want to wager a war with Arabs on it’s own then they go right ahead. Without U.S support we can find out exactly how that goes.
All of Israel’s talk, posturing, actions are based on the premise that U.S will be supporting then, the question will be to what extent the support will be given.
Anonymous wrote:
Israel is like Will Smith on Oscar's night. Upset, and very rightly so. But just wanting to slap someone, long-term consequences be damned.
You are mistaken. Netanyahu is shrewd and knows exactly what he is doing. He is fomenting Israel and creating the environment for rapid depopulation in Gaza and West Bank, making a Palestinian state an impossibility and wrapping up the Palestinian issue.
Anonymous wrote:
Israel is like Will Smith on Oscar's night. Upset, and very rightly so. But just wanting to slap someone, long-term consequences be damned.
You are mistaken. Netanyahu is shrewd and knows exactly what he is doing. He is fomenting Israel and creating the environment for rapid depopulation in Gaza and West Bank, making a Palestinian state an impossibility and wrapping up the Palestinian issue.
Do you think Netanyahu is the only smart guy in that region, the Arabs are going to just sit quiet and take what Netanyahu gives them??
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.
Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.
The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.
The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”
So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.
+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.
That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.
War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.
So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?
Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?
What are we asking Israelis to do something American's wouldn't? So far deaths in Gaza and in the thousands. The body count Americans exacted after 9/11 (including from an uninvolved country just because) ran into the hundreds of thousands
This is a reductionist, and a frankly bad, argument. Many of us think the U.S. response to 9/11 was also wrong. And I think the 20+ years of history since then has clearly proved that it was the wrong reaction.
OK. And I'm sure Israel is willing to suffer the same consequences that the US government and military suffered for those hundreds of thousands of civilians- i.e. none.
Unfortunately for Israel, it's not the U.S. and its geopolitical reality is that it's surrounded by hostile neighbors who are apparently willing to join the hostilities under the right circumstances. So it actually might see some pretty bad consequences.
Fortunately for Israel, the US cares more about Israeli security than it's hostile neighbors existence and the US has experience toppling middle eastern governments and letting countries descend into lawless hell holes. Do you think the Jordanian government looks at Iraq and thinking that looks fun?
Are you suggesting that the U.S. is going to topple Middle Eastern governments in defense of Israel? It will not. There's not popular support for that, and that's a good thing.
Have you seen the polling? Americans would absolutely support going to war with any country that tries to intervene against Israel and the US going to war would topple that government
Hahahahaha
In theory. There's no way that, facing down an another, real-life ground war (especially in the Middle East), the American public is going to support it. Look at what's going on in Ukraine.
Why do you assume that it would be a real-life ground war?
Wars are won on the ground. Ask the US how it did in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. The only way for Israel, a country with a very small population, is either compromise or go Nuclear.
Nah. If the objective is to keep Syria out of the war, the US can eliminate their leadership from a distance. One of those carriers could get rid of what is left of the Syrian army relatively quickly. We could recognize one of the militias as the legitimate government and never have a soldier on the ground. You need boots on the ground if you care about rebuilding a country, if the goal is to just prevent them from intervening in a war then you can decapitate the government and leave what is left to deal with the chaos left behind.
You live in some kind of fantasy world where you think you are going to eliminate Syria's leadership, and Lebanon's leadership and Iran's leadership, level the region, create hundreds of millions of refugees, and maintain free flow of oil without boots on the ground. You are going to need a draft actually.
Who said Lebanon and Iran? Syria already has refugees. Turkey is keeping its border closed and the rest of the world does not care. Lebanon does not have a functional government. Hezbollah is the de fact government in Southern Lebanon and they are staying on the sidelines. They are doing the bare minimum to maintain credibility and not even a tiny bit more. The hope with Hamas was they they would be more interested in governing than terror. That hope was utterly misplaced, but it looks like Hezbollah may have gone that route.
All right Pollyanna, try containing it to "take Syrian leadership out" which we have not been able to do in a decade despite many attempts.
Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.
Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.
The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.
The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”
So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.
+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.
That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.
War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.
So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?
Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?
What are we asking Israelis to do something American's wouldn't? So far deaths in Gaza and in the thousands. The body count Americans exacted after 9/11 (including from an uninvolved country just because) ran into the hundreds of thousands
This is a reductionist, and a frankly bad, argument. Many of us think the U.S. response to 9/11 was also wrong. And I think the 20+ years of history since then has clearly proved that it was the wrong reaction.
OK. And I'm sure Israel is willing to suffer the same consequences that the US government and military suffered for those hundreds of thousands of civilians- i.e. none.
Unfortunately for Israel, it's not the U.S. and its geopolitical reality is that it's surrounded by hostile neighbors who are apparently willing to join the hostilities under the right circumstances. So it actually might see some pretty bad consequences.
Fortunately for Israel, the US cares more about Israeli security than it's hostile neighbors existence and the US has experience toppling middle eastern governments and letting countries descend into lawless hell holes. Do you think the Jordanian government looks at Iraq and thinking that looks fun?
Are you suggesting that the U.S. is going to topple Middle Eastern governments in defense of Israel? It will not. There's not popular support for that, and that's a good thing.
Have you seen the polling? Americans would absolutely support going to war with any country that tries to intervene against Israel and the US going to war would topple that government
Hahahahaha
In theory. There's no way that, facing down an another, real-life ground war (especially in the Middle East), the American public is going to support it. Look at what's going on in Ukraine.
Why do you assume that it would be a real-life ground war?
Wars are won on the ground. Ask the US how it did in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. The only way for Israel, a country with a very small population, is either compromise or go Nuclear.
Nah. If the objective is to keep Syria out of the war, the US can eliminate their leadership from a distance. One of those carriers could get rid of what is left of the Syrian army relatively quickly. We could recognize one of the militias as the legitimate government and never have a soldier on the ground. You need boots on the ground if you care about rebuilding a country, if the goal is to just prevent them from intervening in a war then you can decapitate the government and leave what is left to deal with the chaos left behind.
You live in some kind of fantasy world where you think you are going to eliminate Syria's leadership, and Lebanon's leadership and Iran's leadership, level the region, create hundreds of millions of refugees, and maintain free flow of oil without boots on the ground. You are going to need a draft actually.
Who said Lebanon and Iran? Syria already has refugees. Turkey is keeping its border closed and the rest of the world does not care. Lebanon does not have a functional government. Hezbollah is the de fact government in Southern Lebanon and they are staying on the sidelines. They are doing the bare minimum to maintain credibility and not even a tiny bit more. The hope with Hamas was they they would be more interested in governing than terror. That hope was utterly misplaced, but it looks like Hezbollah may have gone that route.
All right Pollyanna, try containing it to "take Syrian leadership out" which we have not been able to do in a decade despite many attempts.
We've never really attempted it because a weak Assad in charge of a rump state is great for us.
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