Bad Art Friend

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been wondering something about Dawn's class background and plain way of interacting with people: maybe one of the reasons the Chunky Monkeys maligned her is because she isn't adept at performing allyship/anti-racism as expected in bourgeois liberal writing and academic circles. My read of her is that she isn't so self-conscious of coming across as a Good White Person, which i personally respect as a black woman. The specific way the white writers in this group were salivating over her destruction is very fascinating to me. It's almost as if she was their rural-poor white woman sacrifice to the racial justice gods. I'm reminded of one of Alison Murphy's emails to Sonya in which she sheepishly admitted the campaign against Dawn is her worst nightmare. She pledged to stay on guard to make sure she never becomes (or is found out to be) an entitled White Savior or literary Karen, LOL. Except, this framing of Dawn was manufactured to obfuscate a clear case of plagiarism and, in my opinion, Sonya's envy of Dawn's superior writerly talent and skill. There was so much projection going on; the lack of self-awareness of these bullies is astounding.

I think you are right. Really thoughtful post.

Awhile ago, long before this story, I saw an interesting discussion about how a lot of current bourgeois liberal DEI efforts and language are strongly anti-union and anti-working-class, because the bourgeois promoters of that rhetoric are actually deeply invested in preventing solidarity across working class racially divided populations. In other words, if you engage in dialogue that fosters suspicion amongst race-divided groups, they will never be strong enough together to truly change the class structures that overwhelmingly favor the bourgeois who are promoting the DEI rhetoric. Being a Good White Person (or in the case of Gay, a Good Black Person) is actually a way of killing any chance of changing the societal class structures that actually prevent many poor people of all races from significant life improvement.

I am not sure what to think about all of that (like many discussions of race, it is, to my mind, interesting but not complete), but I feel like I see elements of the above in the behavior of the Chunky Monkeys. They don't care about race, not really. But they care extremely deeply about maintaining their power as against a working class interloper who is scrabbling into their exclusive world. Hence the suggestion of the white writers to weaponize race to keep a working class writer down, and why Ng and Gay, two wealth and influential POC, were so willing to use race so cynically. Viewed from a world in which they desperately want to slam the door shut to any threats to their wealth and influence, their actions have a twisted consistency.

There is an upper class entitlement element here that reminds me of the wealthy college that fired the cafeteria workers and security guards that they don’t even pay decently because a wealthy student of color felt profiled. Who are the true elites who has the power in this situation? Are they making the world a fairer, more just place by picking in this woman? That is their whole rationale. It does not withstand scrutiny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been wondering something about Dawn's class background and plain way of interacting with people: maybe one of the reasons the Chunky Monkeys maligned her is because she isn't adept at performing allyship/anti-racism as expected in bourgeois liberal writing and academic circles. My read of her is that she isn't so self-conscious of coming across as a Good White Person, which i personally respect as a black woman. The specific way the white writers in this group were salivating over her destruction is very fascinating to me. It's almost as if she was their rural-poor white woman sacrifice to the racial justice gods. I'm reminded of one of Alison Murphy's emails to Sonya in which she sheepishly admitted the campaign against Dawn is her worst nightmare. She pledged to stay on guard to make sure she never becomes (or is found out to be) an entitled White Savior or literary Karen, LOL. Except, this framing of Dawn was manufactured to obfuscate a clear case of plagiarism and, in my opinion, Sonya's envy of Dawn's superior writerly talent and skill. There was so much projection going on; the lack of self-awareness of these bullies is astounding.

I think you are right. Really thoughtful post.

Awhile ago, long before this story, I saw an interesting discussion about how a lot of current bourgeois liberal DEI efforts and language are strongly anti-union and anti-working-class, because the bourgeois promoters of that rhetoric are actually deeply invested in preventing solidarity across working class racially divided populations. In other words, if you engage in dialogue that fosters suspicion amongst race-divided groups, they will never be strong enough together to truly change the class structures that overwhelmingly favor the bourgeois who are promoting the DEI rhetoric. Being a Good White Person (or in the case of Gay, a Good Black Person) is actually a way of killing any chance of changing the societal class structures that actually prevent many poor people of all races from significant life improvement.

I am not sure what to think about all of that (like many discussions of race, it is, to my mind, interesting but not complete), but I feel like I see elements of the above in the behavior of the Chunky Monkeys. They don't care about race, not really. But they care extremely deeply about maintaining their power as against a working class interloper who is scrabbling into their exclusive world. Hence the suggestion of the white writers to weaponize race to keep a working class writer down, and why Ng and Gay, two wealth and influential POC, were so willing to use race so cynically. Viewed from a world in which they desperately want to slam the door shut to any threats to their wealth and influence, their actions have a twisted consistency.

There is an upper class entitlement element here that reminds me of the wealthy college that fired the cafeteria workers and security guards that they don’t even pay decently because a wealthy student of color felt profiled. Who are the true elites who has the power in this situation? Are they making the world a fairer, more just place by picking in this woman? That is their whole rationale. It does not withstand scrutiny.

Yes, what I see here is a group of elites who will do anything to prevent a working class woman from achieving success, including weaponizing deep issues of race in a horrifically cynical way.

[Anonymous]

I feel like this could be Jordan Peele’s next film project.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been wondering something about Dawn's class background and plain way of interacting with people: maybe one of the reasons the Chunky Monkeys maligned her is because she isn't adept at performing allyship/anti-racism as expected in bourgeois liberal writing and academic circles. My read of her is that she isn't so self-conscious of coming across as a Good White Person, which i personally respect as a black woman. The specific way the white writers in this group were salivating over her destruction is very fascinating to me. It's almost as if she was their rural-poor white woman sacrifice to the racial justice gods. I'm reminded of one of Alison Murphy's emails to Sonya in which she sheepishly admitted the campaign against Dawn is her worst nightmare. She pledged to stay on guard to make sure she never becomes (or is found out to be) an entitled White Savior or literary Karen, LOL. Except, this framing of Dawn was manufactured to obfuscate a clear case of plagiarism and, in my opinion, Sonya's envy of Dawn's superior writerly talent and skill. There was so much projection going on; the lack of self-awareness of these bullies is astounding.

I think you are right. Really thoughtful post.

Awhile ago, long before this story, I saw an interesting discussion about how a lot of current bourgeois liberal DEI efforts and language are strongly anti-union and anti-working-class, because the bourgeois promoters of that rhetoric are actually deeply invested in preventing solidarity across working class racially divided populations. In other words, if you engage in dialogue that fosters suspicion amongst race-divided groups, they will never be strong enough together to truly change the class structures that overwhelmingly favor the bourgeois who are promoting the DEI rhetoric. Being a Good White Person (or in the case of Gay, a Good Black Person) is actually a way of killing any chance of changing the societal class structures that actually prevent many poor people of all races from significant life improvement.

I am not sure what to think about all of that (like many discussions of race, it is, to my mind, interesting but not complete), but I feel like I see elements of the above in the behavior of the Chunky Monkeys. They don't care about race, not really. But they care extremely deeply about maintaining their power as against a working class interloper who is scrabbling into their exclusive world. Hence the suggestion of the white writers to weaponize race to keep a working class writer down, and why Ng and Gay, two wealth and influential POC, were so willing to use race so cynically. Viewed from a world in which they desperately want to slam the door shut to any threats to their wealth and influence, their actions have a twisted consistency.

All of this!

[Anonymous]

Thanks to whoever linked the Data lounge threads. Really interesting to read.

[Anonymous]

I am a Black woman and feel so sick that these people have used race as a red herring to obscure their nasty behavior. Racism is a real problem and situations like this do nothing but make it more challenging for people who are really being discriminated against to be believed.

I really hope Dawn Dorland publishes a book and it becomes an international best seller. I need for this story to end that way. Poor Dawn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a Black woman and feel so sick that these people have used race as a red herring to obscure their nasty behavior. Racism is a real problem and situations like this do nothing but make it more challenging for people who are really being discriminated against to be believed.

I really hope Dawn Dorland publishes a book and it becomes an international best seller. I need for this story to end that way. Poor Dawn.

+1

It's terrible how these people used race. Really awful.

I hope she publishes too, but I think if I were her, I would not trust any publishers.

[Anonymous]

This study was linked to in the Metafilter discussion. It’s fascinating and when you just look at the abstract, you aren’t surprised, are you? “What, you think you’re better than me?” “I haven’t said anything to or about you.” “So!! Who the hell are you to think you’re better than me? I’ll kill you!”

^ with “writerly” refinement, we have Grub Street.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1948550611415695

[Anonymous]

^ should’ve written that I’m a different poster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Kolker the victim now? He didn't want to pursue but what was he going to do -- there was a white woman in tears, lord help him.

Jesus. What a terrible person he is also turning out to be.

I'm so irritated. I really LOVED his book "Hidden Valley Road." He created a total mess with this one!

[Anonymous]

so, a question I feel I can ask you all, because this has been such a smart and thoughtful DCUM thread.

I am white and grew up middle class/flyover state/not connected, and without being specific, my creative work has landed in the (art field here) equivalent of the NYT. I went to a state school.

DD, whose side I am 100 percent on, went to Harvard. I understand that she grew up without money and will never be part of the rarified old money circles that DCUM is obsessed with; me neither! But wasn't Harvard supposed to put her in spitting distance or same level as these people, if not leapfrog them? Because of the connections and access it gave her alone? I mean, it's not like Ng and Larson are Kennedys or Bushes or something -- they are average people.

I guess this state school grad is asking: How can Larson "punch down" on a Harvard grad due to class? I understand that Larson is totally out of line; but I am not totally following DD cast as a *class* underdog.

I ask this honestly and without agenda; as mentioned, team DD and Larson is a bad person/bad artist: How is a Harvard grad a subject of classism from less-than-Harvard grads?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Kolker the victim now? He didn't want to pursue but what was he going to do -- there was a white woman in tears, lord help him.

Jesus. What a terrible person he is also turning out to be.

I'm so irritated. I really LOVED his book "Hidden Valley Road." He created a total mess with this one!

I was going to buy it (have multiple male family members who are bipolar), but now, eh, his credibility killed me wanting to read it for insight.

[Anonymous]

She went to a local college, I think, and Harvard Divinity school, which is different. You don't go to divinity school to increase your class status I think. There is a good discussion in the MetaFilter thread about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Kolker the victim now? He didn't want to pursue but what was he going to do -- there was a white woman in tears, lord help him.

Jesus. What a terrible person he is also turning out to be.

I'm so irritated. I really LOVED his book "Hidden Valley Road." He created a total mess with this one!

I was going to buy it (have multiple male family members who are bipolar), but now, eh, his credibility killed me wanting to read it for insight.

I was going to buy it too, but won't now, because I don't think I can trust him as an author.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She went to a local college, I think, and Harvard Divinity school, which is different. You don't go to divinity school to increase your class status I think. There is a good discussion in the MetaFilter thread about this.

link?