Looks like a new Gaza war has started

[Anonymous]

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A mother and daughter from the suburbs of Chicago were taken hostage by Hamas during their trip to Israel to celebrate a Jewish holiday season and a birthday party, according to their rabbi.

Judith Raanan and her 17-year-old daughter, Natalie Raanan, traveled to Nahal Oz in Israel, about a mile from the Gaza border, to celebrate a relative's 85th birthday and Simchat Torah.

"It has been confirmed to the family that both Judith and Natalie are alive and are hostages in Gaza," Rabbi Meir Hecht of Evanston, Illinois, told Fox News Digital. "The Israeli government and the State Department confirmed that information with the family."

I am glad they are alive. Is there a historical precedent for taking hostages in this part of the world? From Iran on, the hostage taking of civilians is constant. Or is it just part of the terrorist mindset-what you do when you don't want to fight actual armies? Pick on the defenseless?

Maybe if our foreign policy wasn’t so imbalanced they wouldn’t need to take hostages . People take hostages when they want leverage in a negotiation

Oh please. They take hostages because they are psychopaths.

Nope. Throughout history, people take live hostages as a desperate way to get powers that be to either pay them or listen to them .

It’s not psychopath behavior. It’s actually the most accepted form of warfare because it allows for negotiation and victims are alive throughout .

Keep acting shocked or surprised as to to why Hamas is doing it. It’s because they want leverage. What can one do? Bomb them to smithereens and kill the hostages as well. Nope.

That’s the point . They want to keep hostages alive and release them in exchange for something

Hams doesn't seem desperate. They have more money than God, and patiently stockpiled and planned this. They take hostages because they want to. Abbas isn't holding hostages. It speaks incredibly well of the West Bank to have condemned all of this. They are the light and the future for Palestinians. Not Hamas. I understand why they did it, but understanding their twisted motives doesn't justify them. Pretty much the entire world views this the same.

If they are the light and future of Palestinians, why did Israelis kill more Palestinians in the West Bank before 10/7? You didn’t reward the good guys at all.

Do you think the people there don’t see the victories Hamas has made , and aren’t thinking to themselves “Why are the Israelis afraid to go to the ground in Gaza but certainly aren’t afraid to come here and live among us and kill us”

They’re going to turn to Hamas soon so no more good guys there either.

You’ve worn on their patience

Israelis can't fight man to man, they will be slaughtered. This is why Bibi is itching to drop that tactical Nuclear bomb in Iran.

I mean, the number of IDF women who neutralized Hamas terrorists during the surprise attack undercuts your point.

Yes but those brave women were fighting in their neighborhoods. It’s different than fighting in enemy territory. I am sure none of the IDF soldiers if any have ever been to Gaza before.

That’s the trap Hamas created .

I don’t think Hamas anticipated the evacuation. Israel can take its time and continue to eliminate Hamas leadership and research Gaza.

If they truly want to eliminate Hamas leadership, they would have to fight in Lebanon and Syria as well and get Qatar to give them up

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.

Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.

The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.

The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”

So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.

+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.

So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?

Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?

To be evenhanded, Hamas will have to cease the war crime of placing its terrorists and equipment in, on, under, or around places like mosques and all that.

And if someone asks the question “what should Hamas do” that’s a reasonable answer, as well as releasing hostages and letting foreigners leave.

But the question was, what should Israel do. And the answer is: not commit war crimes.

Well, the matters cannot be addressed in isolation. To fight a war crime free fight, Israel needs its opponent to not engage in war crimes too.

That’s not true. Israel can— and should, and dare I say must— hold itself to a higher standard than Hamas.

Well if you apply that double standard, your concern may not actually be about war crimes.

It doesn't matter. It's in Israel's self-interest. Do you think Ukraine wants to treat the Russians they capture humanely? Russia certainly isn't treating Ukrainians humanely. Ukraine does so not because they want to but because that's how they maintain support, erode support for their enemy, and create the circumstances for a manageable post-conflict future.

Hamas has nothing to lose by treating Israelis inhumanely. Israel has a lot to lose by treating Palestinians inhumanely. That is the unfortunate dynamic at play.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.

Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.

The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.

The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”

So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.

+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.

So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?

Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?

You can’t win anything if you play by the rules while the others don’t.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.

Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.

The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.

The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”

So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.

+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.

So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?

Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?

You can’t win anything if you play by the rules while the others don’t.

Has anyone “won” anything here so far? I’m struggling to see any winners out of the last decade or more…

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.

Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.

The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.

The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”

So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.

+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.

So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?

Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?

What are we asking Israelis to do something American's wouldn't? So far deaths in Gaza and in the thousands. The body count Americans exacted after 9/11 (including from an uninvolved country just because) ran into the hundreds of thousands

This is a reductionist, and a frankly bad, argument. Many of us think the U.S. response to 9/11 was also wrong. And I think the 20+ years of history since then has clearly proved that it was the wrong reaction.

OK. And I'm sure Israel is willing to suffer the same consequences that the US government and military suffered for those hundreds of thousands of civilians- i.e. none.

Unfortunately for Israel, it's not the U.S. and its geopolitical reality is that it's surrounded by hostile neighbors who are apparently willing to join the hostilities under the right circumstances. So it actually might see some pretty bad consequences.

Fortunately for Israel, the US cares more about Israeli security than it's hostile neighbors existence and the US has experience toppling middle eastern governments and letting countries descend into lawless hell holes. Do you think the Jordanian government looks at Iraq and thinking that looks fun?

Are you suggesting that the U.S. is going to topple Middle Eastern governments in defense of Israel? It will not. There's not popular support for that, and that's a good thing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.

Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.

The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.

The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”

So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.

+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.

So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?

Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?

You can’t win anything if you play by the rules while the others don’t.

The "rules" are don't commit war crimes. Those rules separate civil society and civilized governments (which Israel claims to be) from brutal terrorists, like Hamas.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.

Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.

The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.

The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”

So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.

+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.

So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?

Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?

What are we asking Israelis to do something American's wouldn't? So far deaths in Gaza and in the thousands. The body count Americans exacted after 9/11 (including from an uninvolved country just because) ran into the hundreds of thousands

This is a reductionist, and a frankly bad, argument. Many of us think the U.S. response to 9/11 was also wrong. And I think the 20+ years of history since then has clearly proved that it was the wrong reaction.

OK. And I'm sure Israel is willing to suffer the same consequences that the US government and military suffered for those hundreds of thousands of civilians- i.e. none.

Unfortunately for Israel, it's not the U.S. and its geopolitical reality is that it's surrounded by hostile neighbors who are apparently willing to join the hostilities under the right circumstances. So it actually might see some pretty bad consequences.

Fortunately for Israel, the US cares more about Israeli security than it's hostile neighbors existence and the US has experience toppling middle eastern governments and letting countries descend into lawless hell holes. Do you think the Jordanian government looks at Iraq and thinking that looks fun?

Are you suggesting that the U.S. is going to topple Middle Eastern governments in defense of Israel? It will not. There's not popular support for that, and that's a good thing.

Have you seen the polling? Americans would absolutely support going to war with any country that tries to intervene against Israel and the US going to war would topple that government

[Anonymous]

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A mother and daughter from the suburbs of Chicago were taken hostage by Hamas during their trip to Israel to celebrate a Jewish holiday season and a birthday party, according to their rabbi.

Judith Raanan and her 17-year-old daughter, Natalie Raanan, traveled to Nahal Oz in Israel, about a mile from the Gaza border, to celebrate a relative's 85th birthday and Simchat Torah.

"It has been confirmed to the family that both Judith and Natalie are alive and are hostages in Gaza," Rabbi Meir Hecht of Evanston, Illinois, told Fox News Digital. "The Israeli government and the State Department confirmed that information with the family."

I am glad they are alive. Is there a historical precedent for taking hostages in this part of the world? From Iran on, the hostage taking of civilians is constant. Or is it just part of the terrorist mindset-what you do when you don't want to fight actual armies? Pick on the defenseless?

Maybe if our foreign policy wasn’t so imbalanced they wouldn’t need to take hostages . People take hostages when they want leverage in a negotiation

Oh please. They take hostages because they are psychopaths.

Nope. Throughout history, people take live hostages as a desperate way to get powers that be to either pay them or listen to them .

It’s not psychopath behavior. It’s actually the most accepted form of warfare because it allows for negotiation and victims are alive throughout .

Keep acting shocked or surprised as to to why Hamas is doing it. It’s because they want leverage. What can one do? Bomb them to smithereens and kill the hostages as well. Nope.

That’s the point . They want to keep hostages alive and release them in exchange for something

Hams doesn't seem desperate. They have more money than God, and patiently stockpiled and planned this. They take hostages because they want to. Abbas isn't holding hostages. It speaks incredibly well of the West Bank to have condemned all of this. They are the light and the future for Palestinians. Not Hamas. I understand why they did it, but understanding their twisted motives doesn't justify them. Pretty much the entire world views this the same.

If they are the light and future of Palestinians, why did Israelis kill more Palestinians in the West Bank before 10/7? You didn’t reward the good guys at all.

Do you think the people there don’t see the victories Hamas has made , and aren’t thinking to themselves “Why are the Israelis afraid to go to the ground in Gaza but certainly aren’t afraid to come here and live among us and kill us”

They’re going to turn to Hamas soon so no more good guys there either.

You’ve worn on their patience

Israelis can't fight man to man, they will be slaughtered. This is why Bibi is itching to drop that tactical Nuclear bomb in Iran.

I mean, the number of IDF women who neutralized Hamas terrorists during the surprise attack undercuts your point.

Lol. Tuff girlz are soooo hot, my dude. I’m sure you can get a similar scenario with a credit card.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.

Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.

The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.

The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”

So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.

+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.

So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?

Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?

What are we asking Israelis to do something American's wouldn't? So far deaths in Gaza and in the thousands. The body count Americans exacted after 9/11 (including from an uninvolved country just because) ran into the hundreds of thousands

This is a reductionist, and a frankly bad, argument. Many of us think the U.S. response to 9/11 was also wrong. And I think the 20+ years of history since then has clearly proved that it was the wrong reaction.

OK. And I'm sure Israel is willing to suffer the same consequences that the US government and military suffered for those hundreds of thousands of civilians- i.e. none.

Unfortunately for Israel, it's not the U.S. and its geopolitical reality is that it's surrounded by hostile neighbors who are apparently willing to join the hostilities under the right circumstances. So it actually might see some pretty bad consequences.

Fortunately for Israel, the US cares more about Israeli security than it's hostile neighbors existence and the US has experience toppling middle eastern governments and letting countries descend into lawless hell holes. Do you think the Jordanian government looks at Iraq and thinking that looks fun?

Are you suggesting that the U.S. is going to topple Middle Eastern governments in defense of Israel? It will not. There's not popular support for that, and that's a good thing.

Have you seen the polling? Americans would absolutely support going to war with any country that tries to intervene against Israel and the US going to war would topple that government

Hahahahaha

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.

Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.

The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.

The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”

So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.

+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.

So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?

Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?

To be evenhanded, Hamas will have to cease the war crime of placing its terrorists and equipment in, on, under, or around places like mosques and all that.

And if someone asks the question “what should Hamas do” that’s a reasonable answer, as well as releasing hostages and letting foreigners leave.

But the question was, what should Israel do. And the answer is: not commit war crimes.

Well, the matters cannot be addressed in isolation. To fight a war crime free fight, Israel needs its opponent to not engage in war crimes too.

That’s not true. Israel can— and should, and dare I say must— hold itself to a higher standard than Hamas.

Well if you apply that double standard, your concern may not actually be about war crimes.

Israel should apply that double standard to itself and many, many Israelis do. Many Israelis do not want to be held to the same standard as a terrorist group that kills children and therefore do not want to see their government kill children. What is their concern?

That’s why the IDF states that it takes all possible steps to avoid civilian casualties.

[Anonymous]

Why is Biden going to Israel?

[Anonymous]

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A mother and daughter from the suburbs of Chicago were taken hostage by Hamas during their trip to Israel to celebrate a Jewish holiday season and a birthday party, according to their rabbi.

Judith Raanan and her 17-year-old daughter, Natalie Raanan, traveled to Nahal Oz in Israel, about a mile from the Gaza border, to celebrate a relative's 85th birthday and Simchat Torah.

"It has been confirmed to the family that both Judith and Natalie are alive and are hostages in Gaza," Rabbi Meir Hecht of Evanston, Illinois, told Fox News Digital. "The Israeli government and the State Department confirmed that information with the family."

I am glad they are alive. Is there a historical precedent for taking hostages in this part of the world? From Iran on, the hostage taking of civilians is constant. Or is it just part of the terrorist mindset-what you do when you don't want to fight actual armies? Pick on the defenseless?

Maybe if our foreign policy wasn’t so imbalanced they wouldn’t need to take hostages . People take hostages when they want leverage in a negotiation

Oh please. They take hostages because they are psychopaths.

Nope. Throughout history, people take live hostages as a desperate way to get powers that be to either pay them or listen to them .

It’s not psychopath behavior. It’s actually the most accepted form of warfare because it allows for negotiation and victims are alive throughout .

Keep acting shocked or surprised as to to why Hamas is doing it. It’s because they want leverage. What can one do? Bomb them to smithereens and kill the hostages as well. Nope.

That’s the point . They want to keep hostages alive and release them in exchange for something

Hams doesn't seem desperate. They have more money than God, and patiently stockpiled and planned this. They take hostages because they want to. Abbas isn't holding hostages. It speaks incredibly well of the West Bank to have condemned all of this. They are the light and the future for Palestinians. Not Hamas. I understand why they did it, but understanding their twisted motives doesn't justify them. Pretty much the entire world views this the same.

If they are the light and future of Palestinians, why did Israelis kill more Palestinians in the West Bank before 10/7? You didn’t reward the good guys at all.

Do you think the people there don’t see the victories Hamas has made , and aren’t thinking to themselves “Why are the Israelis afraid to go to the ground in Gaza but certainly aren’t afraid to come here and live among us and kill us”

They’re going to turn to Hamas soon so no more good guys there either.

You’ve worn on their patience

Israelis can't fight man to man, they will be slaughtered. This is why Bibi is itching to drop that tactical Nuclear bomb in Iran.

I mean, the number of IDF women who neutralized Hamas terrorists during the surprise attack undercuts your point.

Lol. Tuff girlz are soooo hot, my dude. I’m sure you can get a similar scenario with a credit card.

Uh, the poster asserted that Israelis can’t fight “man to man.” As a counterfactual, I pointed out that Israeli women neutralized terrorists. The weird tangent you went on is your own matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.

Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.

The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.

The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”

So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.

+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.

So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?

Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?

To be evenhanded, Hamas will have to cease the war crime of placing its terrorists and equipment in, on, under, or around places like mosques and all that.

And if someone asks the question “what should Hamas do” that’s a reasonable answer, as well as releasing hostages and letting foreigners leave.

But the question was, what should Israel do. And the answer is: not commit war crimes.

Well, the matters cannot be addressed in isolation. To fight a war crime free fight, Israel needs its opponent to not engage in war crimes too.

That’s not true. Israel can— and should, and dare I say must— hold itself to a higher standard than Hamas.

Well if you apply that double standard, your concern may not actually be about war crimes.

Israel should apply that double standard to itself and many, many Israelis do. Many Israelis do not want to be held to the same standard as a terrorist group that kills children and therefore do not want to see their government kill children. What is their concern?

That’s why the IDF states that it takes all possible steps to avoid civilian casualties.

Then hopefully it will begin to take “all possible steps” sometime soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A mother and daughter from the suburbs of Chicago were taken hostage by Hamas during their trip to Israel to celebrate a Jewish holiday season and a birthday party, according to their rabbi.

Judith Raanan and her 17-year-old daughter, Natalie Raanan, traveled to Nahal Oz in Israel, about a mile from the Gaza border, to celebrate a relative's 85th birthday and Simchat Torah.

"It has been confirmed to the family that both Judith and Natalie are alive and are hostages in Gaza," Rabbi Meir Hecht of Evanston, Illinois, told Fox News Digital. "The Israeli government and the State Department confirmed that information with the family."

I am glad they are alive. Is there a historical precedent for taking hostages in this part of the world? From Iran on, the hostage taking of civilians is constant. Or is it just part of the terrorist mindset-what you do when you don't want to fight actual armies? Pick on the defenseless?

Maybe if our foreign policy wasn’t so imbalanced they wouldn’t need to take hostages . People take hostages when they want leverage in a negotiation

Oh please. They take hostages because they are psychopaths.

Nope. Throughout history, people take live hostages as a desperate way to get powers that be to either pay them or listen to them .

It’s not psychopath behavior. It’s actually the most accepted form of warfare because it allows for negotiation and victims are alive throughout .

Keep acting shocked or surprised as to to why Hamas is doing it. It’s because they want leverage. What can one do? Bomb them to smithereens and kill the hostages as well. Nope.

That’s the point . They want to keep hostages alive and release them in exchange for something

Hams doesn't seem desperate. They have more money than God, and patiently stockpiled and planned this. They take hostages because they want to. Abbas isn't holding hostages. It speaks incredibly well of the West Bank to have condemned all of this. They are the light and the future for Palestinians. Not Hamas. I understand why they did it, but understanding their twisted motives doesn't justify them. Pretty much the entire world views this the same.

If they are the light and future of Palestinians, why did Israelis kill more Palestinians in the West Bank before 10/7? You didn’t reward the good guys at all.

Do you think the people there don’t see the victories Hamas has made , and aren’t thinking to themselves “Why are the Israelis afraid to go to the ground in Gaza but certainly aren’t afraid to come here and live among us and kill us”

They’re going to turn to Hamas soon so no more good guys there either.

You’ve worn on their patience

Israelis can't fight man to man, they will be slaughtered. This is why Bibi is itching to drop that tactical Nuclear bomb in Iran.

I mean, the number of IDF women who neutralized Hamas terrorists during the surprise attack undercuts your point.

Yes but those brave women were fighting in their neighborhoods. It’s different than fighting in enemy territory. I am sure none of the IDF soldiers if any have ever been to Gaza before.

That’s the trap Hamas created .

I don’t think Hamas anticipated the evacuation. Israel can take its time and continue to eliminate Hamas leadership and research Gaza.

If they truly want to eliminate Hamas leadership, they would have to fight in Lebanon and Syria as well and get Qatar to give them up

Again: the focus is on Hamas in Gaza. Those dudes living large in those other countries don’t want to get near Gaza.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamas is not the Palestinian people. Why do people keep identifying Hamas with all who live on Gaza? Yes they are there, yes they are Arab/Palestinian. No they are not 100% of the population living on Gaza and you can condemn Hamas without suggesting all Palestinians are barbarians. Why is this such a problem for Jewish people? I mean I condemn the Hamas attacks. I do not support Israel's right to kill everyone on Gaza which is essentially what they are doing. Allies of Israel claim it's not but look at what's happening. It sure is. You are killing everyone there which amounts to killing all Palestinians, Hamas or not. It is every bit as tragic as Hamas killing innocents because Israel is knowingly killing innocents as well. You just can't say well we want to kill Hamas so it makes killing innocent people OK. It's not. It's never OK. EVER. To do it accidentally or because there's no way around it is different than simply dropping bombs to wipe out as many as you can at once. You really think this is about Hamas? It's about wiping the Palestinian people off the face of the earth. It's sick. As sick as Hamas.

Your point seems to be that Israel defending itself is sick.

The point is that war crimes are sick, even when Israel is the perpetrator.

The point seems to be that anything Israel does to defend itself is a “war crime.”

So Israel is allowed to do anything it wants in defense of it's security? I'm sure you'd be applauding if Israel nuked Gaza, which is what they seem to be doing in small doses. It's like you and the pro-Israel people have blinders one. Nothing Israel does is wrong. God's chosen people are infallible. Everything they do is justified, including killing and stealing land from West Bank Palestinians. Israel's murder of 13,000 Palestinians is viewed as negligible and inconsequential compared to Hamas' murder of 1,400 Israelis.

+1. Israel suffered a terrorist attack. It was brutal and very sad, and I am so sorry for the families and people affected. Obviously they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

That said, the Israeli government’s plan to essentially carpet-bomb Gaza and withhold basic supplies like food, water, and power from the entire strip, is a war crime against the civilian population. They and everyone else know that this plan is going to indiscriminately kill Palestinian civilians (who are not Hamas). And their warnings to civilians to evacuate the northern part of the strip are pretty hollow. There are civilians there who cannot evacuate, as the UN pointed out. And there’s nowhere to go. They’re still bombing the southern part.

War crimes aren’t permissible just because it’s “self-defense” and it’s totally disingenuous to say that it’s antisemitic to point that out. Israel doesn’t get a pass on that because they suffered a terrorist attack.

So, if you agree that Hamas is a terrorist entity guilty of war crimes that does not serve the Palestinian people, what should Israel do?

Not commit additional war crimes in its response? Why is this controversial?

To be evenhanded, Hamas will have to cease the war crime of placing its terrorists and equipment in, on, under, or around places like mosques and all that.

And if someone asks the question “what should Hamas do” that’s a reasonable answer, as well as releasing hostages and letting foreigners leave.

But the question was, what should Israel do. And the answer is: not commit war crimes.

Well, the matters cannot be addressed in isolation. To fight a war crime free fight, Israel needs its opponent to not engage in war crimes too.

That’s not true. Israel can— and should, and dare I say must— hold itself to a higher standard than Hamas.

Well if you apply that double standard, your concern may not actually be about war crimes.

Israel should apply that double standard to itself and many, many Israelis do. Many Israelis do not want to be held to the same standard as a terrorist group that kills children and therefore do not want to see their government kill children. What is their concern?

That’s why the IDF states that it takes all possible steps to avoid civilian casualties.

Then hopefully it will begin to take “all possible steps” sometime soon.

One hopes!