Boycott/ Divest and Pull your College App from All States which violate Our Daughters' Civil Rights

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

I'm pro-choice, but this is an excellent point. If the fetus isn't a person, why worry about any of that?

How far down the line are we going to judge and penalize bad parenting?

No one should be forced to carry a pregnancy, give birth, or become a parent against their will. Period.

You're (deliberately?) missing the point. If the fetus isn't a human (according to you), then a pregnant woman is not a parent. So why do you consider it "bad parenting" if a pregnant woman eats poorly and/or uses drugs and alcohol while pregnant?

You are trying way too hard with this and it is tiresome.

Truth can hurt.

Yawn. Most pregnancies are wanted and the pregnant women tries to have a safe pregnancy and a healthy baby. Some are unwanted and are terminated for many different reasons. None of them are any of your business if they are not yours or of you are not invited in.

63 million should be worth more than a yawn.

63 women who had control of their own body, their own future, their own life.

Disgusting that you want to crush the personal liberties of each and every one of those women. To oppress them. Take away their basic rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

I'm pro-choice, but this is an excellent point. If the fetus isn't a person, why worry about any of that?

How far down the line are we going to judge and penalize bad parenting?

No one should be forced to carry a pregnancy, give birth, or become a parent against their will. Period.

You're (deliberately?) missing the point. If the fetus isn't a human (according to you), then a pregnant woman is not a parent. So why do you consider it "bad parenting" if a pregnant woman eats poorly and/or uses drugs and alcohol while pregnant?

I never said a fetus isn’t human.

I said it’s not a “person” - not legally.

When a pregnant woman is murdered, the murderer is accused of 2 murders. Not a woman and her fetus, but a woman and her baby.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

I'm pro-choice, but this is an excellent point. If the fetus isn't a person, why worry about any of that?

How far down the line are we going to judge and penalize bad parenting?

No one should be forced to carry a pregnancy, give birth, or become a parent against their will. Period.

You're (deliberately?) missing the point. If the fetus isn't a human (according to you), then a pregnant woman is not a parent. So why do you consider it "bad parenting" if a pregnant woman eats poorly and/or uses drugs and alcohol while pregnant?

You are trying way too hard with this and it is tiresome.

Truth can hurt.

Yawn. Most pregnancies are wanted and the pregnant women tries to have a safe pregnancy and a healthy baby. Some are unwanted and are terminated for many different reasons. None of them are any of your business if they are not yours or of you are not invited in.

63 million should be worth more than a yawn.

63 women who had control of their own body, their own future, their own life.

Disgusting that you want to crush the personal liberties of each and every one of those women. To oppress them. Take away their basic rights.

Not 63 women. 63 MIllion

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you honestly think 63 million women had medical reasons for aborting their babies? How about we start using our brains and planning abilities and use birth control.


Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

I'm pro-choice, but this is an excellent point. If the fetus isn't a person, why worry about any of that?

How far down the line are we going to judge and penalize bad parenting?

No one should be forced to carry a pregnancy, give birth, or become a parent against their will. Period.

You're (deliberately?) missing the point. If the fetus isn't a human (according to you), then a pregnant woman is not a parent. So why do you consider it "bad parenting" if a pregnant woman eats poorly and/or uses drugs and alcohol while pregnant?

You are trying way too hard with this and it is tiresome.

Truth can hurt.

Yawn. Most pregnancies are wanted and the pregnant women tries to have a safe pregnancy and a healthy baby. Some are unwanted and are terminated for many different reasons. None of them are any of your business if they are not yours or of you are not invited in.

63 million should be worth more than a yawn.

63 women who had control of their own body, their own future, their own life.

Disgusting that you want to crush the personal liberties of each and every one of those women. To oppress them. Take away their basic rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So individuals can decide what life matters, right? We are each I. Our separate driver’s seat and can pick and chose? If the unborn child has one kidney - abort? Or perhaps a gene for a certain disease that is not curable- driver says abort. My point is that the walk here is a very slippery slope. In a time when we have all witnessed the utter disregard for human life in many situations - we need to approach this issue with caution and respectful discussion.

Not quite, but you are almost there. Take away the word "matters" and add "women who are pregnant" and you will get it.

Individual women who are pregnant get to decide what life they choose to share their organs and blood and nervous system and digestive system with.

and it isn't a slippery slope at all. If and when a baby is born ill, missing a kidney, or has any other problem, society can then step in and shower that baby with all kind of support. Whatever it needs. All medical care, therapies, treatments and so on. In this way society can show respect for human life.

Make all that happen -- make it EASY or at least EASIER to raise children who are medically fragile, or have Down Syndrome, or any of a number of other issues. Make it so no parent even has to use the word "wait list" when talking about a Medicare waiver for therapies, and so no parent has to fight insurance companies for appropriate services and in home care. Make it so no parent has to quite his or her job to get the kid to therapies and treatments.'

If society can show that kind of love and financial support to ALL children including those with intensive and expensive needs, that would do a lot to reduce the number of abortions that happen because the parents fear they won't be able to provide the support the the medically needy child. But until society is providing that kind of care to already born children, don't make this about the pregnant woman having a disregard for human life. That disregard already exists in society and forcing her to bring the baby to term does nothing to change that.

Exactly. Don’t like abortions? Neither do we. Work with us to reduce the need for abortions. Imagine if you used your political power to actually help women and families, instead of sh1tting all over them again and again.

Relentlessly omiting up your moral judgements won’t change a thing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

I'm pro-choice, but this is an excellent point. If the fetus isn't a person, why worry about any of that?

How far down the line are we going to judge and penalize bad parenting?

No one should be forced to carry a pregnancy, give birth, or become a parent against their will. Period.

You're (deliberately?) missing the point. If the fetus isn't a human (according to you), then a pregnant woman is not a parent. So why do you consider it "bad parenting" if a pregnant woman eats poorly and/or uses drugs and alcohol while pregnant?

You are trying way too hard with this and it is tiresome.

Truth can hurt.

Yawn. Most pregnancies are wanted and the pregnant women tries to have a safe pregnancy and a healthy baby. Some are unwanted and are terminated for many different reasons. None of them are any of your business if they are not yours or of you are not invited in.

63 million should be worth more than a yawn.

63 women who had control of their own body, their own future, their own life.

Disgusting that you want to crush the personal liberties of each and every one of those women. To oppress them. Take away their basic rights.

Not 63 women. 63 MIllion

Yes. A typo. Thank you.

63 million women who have a better life today because they had the personal liberty to make decisions about their bodies and their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So individuals can decide what life matters, right? We are each I. Our separate driver’s seat and can pick and chose? If the unborn child has one kidney - abort? Or perhaps a gene for a certain disease that is not curable- driver says abort. My point is that the walk here is a very slippery slope. In a time when we have all witnessed the utter disregard for human life in many situations - we need to approach this issue with caution and respectful discussion.

Not quite, but you are almost there. Take away the word "matters" and add "women who are pregnant" and you will get it.

Individual women who are pregnant get to decide what life they choose to share their organs and blood and nervous system and digestive system with.

and it isn't a slippery slope at all. If and when a baby is born ill, missing a kidney, or has any other problem, society can then step in and shower that baby with all kind of support. Whatever it needs. All medical care, therapies, treatments and so on. In this way society can show respect for human life.

Make all that happen -- make it EASY or at least EASIER to raise children who are medically fragile, or have Down Syndrome, or any of a number of other issues. Make it so no parent even has to use the word "wait list" when talking about a Medicare waiver for therapies, and so no parent has to fight insurance companies for appropriate services and in home care. Make it so no parent has to quite his or her job to get the kid to therapies and treatments.'

If society can show that kind of love and financial support to ALL children including those with intensive and expensive needs, that would do a lot to reduce the number of abortions that happen because the parents fear they won't be able to provide the support the the medically needy child. But until society is providing that kind of care to already born children, don't make this about the pregnant woman having a disregard for human life. That disregard already exists in society and forcing her to bring the baby to term does nothing to change that.

Exactly. Don’t like abortions? Neither do we. Work with us to reduce the need for abortions. Imagine if you used your political power to actually help women and families, instead of sh1tting all over them again and again.

Relentlessly vomiting up your moral judgements won’t change a thing.

^ relentlessly vomiting

Too many typos. Time for bed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

I'm pro-choice, but this is an excellent point. If the fetus isn't a person, why worry about any of that?

How far down the line are we going to judge and penalize bad parenting?

No one should be forced to carry a pregnancy, give birth, or become a parent against their will. Period.

You're (deliberately?) missing the point. If the fetus isn't a human (according to you), then a pregnant woman is not a parent. So why do you consider it "bad parenting" if a pregnant woman eats poorly and/or uses drugs and alcohol while pregnant?

I never said a fetus isn’t human.

I said it’s not a “person” - not legally.

When a pregnant woman is murdered, the murderer is accused of 2 murders. Not a woman and her fetus, but a woman and her baby.

Not a 14th amendment person.

No social security number, no child support, etc.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

Is it ok to feed your kid crap food or expose them to secondhand smoke?

Parents have made bad choices since the beginning of time. Are you going to judge and penalize them next?

No one should be forced to carry a pregnancy, give birth, or become a parent against their will.

Then act responsibly on the front end. Use birth control.

There are countless reasons why women may not want to be pregnant. Most have nothing to do with birth control.

And none of those women need to justify their reasons to you. Mind your own body.

So individuals can decide what life matters, right? We are each I. Our separate driver’s seat and can pick and chose? If the unborn child has one kidney - abort? Or perhaps a gene for a certain disease that is not curable- driver says abort. My point is that the walk here is a very slippery slope. In a time when we have all witnessed the utter disregard for human life in many situations - we need to approach this issue with caution and respectful discussion.

^^^ This is how religion warps your brain. Here is a human who actually thinks they are making a coherent point. “Check-mate” they smugly say to themselves without any clue in the world.

Religion? What are you taking about?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

I think it’s murder that some people are dying waiting for a kidney while others have two. They could save that recipient’s life and continue living themselves with a low risk medical procedure. How is this different?

So then, you yourself are a murderer if you currently have two kidneys? Wow. Your "logic" is really... something.
DP

My family has a history of genetic kidney disease. Don’t assume that I have two or that I don’t need one. Anyone who needs an organ (that people can survive without) should be able to get one from a live donor, if infertile women can carry signs that say, “I will adopt your baby!”
It is exactly the same thing. You can compel me to use my body to save the “life” of a fetus but not to save the actual life of a person? No.

This has got to be the worst attempt at an analogy I've ever seen. You make absolutely zero sense. Essentially, you're saying anyone walking around with two kidneys is a "murderer" because they could have/should have donated one of their kidneys. Do you even hear yourself?

Sure. So if the fetus is “alive” (which it would have to be, before it could be “murdered” then go ahead and deliver it. Oh, a first or second trimester fetus can’t survive outside the womb? Guess it isn’t alive, then.

With every post, you're proving to be sicker and sicker. Just stop posting and embarrassing yourself.

You should be embarrassed. Is cancer a person?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

We don't agree with their beliefs, but aren't telling them to change their beliefs. We are telling them to not impose their beliefs on us. We aren't forcing our beliefs on them by forcing them to have abortions. We are choosing it for ourselves and it is absolutely none of their business that we do.

^ this sums it up.

Pro-choice people aren't forcing their views onto others, because they aren't forcing others to have abortions. They are choosing when to have their children and when not to have them. A choice for THEMSELVES.
Pro-lifers ARE forcing their views onto others, because they are forcing people to have children even when it is under horrible circumstances such as rape, incest, in cases of birth defects, in cases where it puts the mother's life at risk, in cases where the timing is all wrong and would be financially devastating, and so on.
WHEN someone decides to have or not have a child is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, pro-lifers. You stick to your own kids and your own bodies, leave everyone else out of it. And if you don't believe in abortions, don't have one. But you are OUT OF LINE forcing your views onto others.

Exactly. FORCING a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy and deliver an unwanted child is a lot like RAPING the woman.

No wonder conservatives get off on it.

Is it? Generally speaking, being pregnant is a result of consensual actions. Its not like the babies are implanted by aliens and then harvested by doctors.

Sometimes not, and even if it is, "consequences" is a value judgment that should not apply here. If a woman did everything on earth to get pregnant, and then her life circumstances change and she decides to end the pregnancy... THAT SHOULD BE ALLOWED. Because of bodily autonomy. Do you want me to force you do certain things to your body, against your will? Then keep out of mine.

I’m perplexed by the “forced birth” construction and what it is intended to achieve. During a pregnancy resulting from consensual sex between adults, is there any point in time after which an abortion should be restricted? After viability, for example? After the first trimester? Are folks pushing for a Roe standard? Or pushing for elective abortions up to the point of birth? And if Roe is the standard, why isn’t generally banning abortion after the first trimester referred to as “forced birth”? I think Roe was a reasonable and practical way to balance the competing interests of the mother and developing baby, but it certainly isn’t the only reasonable balancing.

The only “restriction” should be working with doctor on the right decision. Doctors are well equipped to understand the situation (unlike politicians) and balance out the options.

That’s fundamentally different from the bright line tests in Roe, but could be workable if the AMA (and/or other appropriate medical ethics and self-regulatory bodies established and published guidelines). Like generally no abortion after [x] weeks, with exceptions when conditions (a, b, or c) are present, with medical licensure penalties for violating the established ethics, etc.

And this is exactly what France and other European countries have. Abortion is legal only up to certain gestational weeks. After that, they have restrictions. Which is common sense.

So “forced birth” after [x] gestational weeks is fine? That’s my point about the term “forced birth” being quite perplexing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

I'm pro-choice, but this is an excellent point. If the fetus isn't a person, why worry about any of that?

How far down the line are we going to judge and penalize bad parenting?

No one should be forced to carry a pregnancy, give birth, or become a parent against their will. Period.

You're (deliberately?) missing the point. If the fetus isn't a human (according to you), then a pregnant woman is not a parent. So why do you consider it "bad parenting" if a pregnant woman eats poorly and/or uses drugs and alcohol while pregnant?

You are trying way too hard with this and it is tiresome.

Truth can hurt.

Yawn. Most pregnancies are wanted and the pregnant women tries to have a safe pregnancy and a healthy baby. Some are unwanted and are terminated for many different reasons. None of them are any of your business if they are not yours or of you are not invited in.

63 million should be worth more than a yawn.

The yawn was for your tiresome attempts with the gotcha....see abortion is murder.

You think abortion is wrong and I respect that and you should never have one. That is none of my business.

I have a different view and you should respect my view.

Reproduction can not be tied up in your neat little black and white, right and wrong package. It is a a dangerous, bloody, messy, painful, fraught, sometimes joyful and sometimes sorrowful and intensely personal experience and the decisions surrounding it are private.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

I'm pro-choice, but this is an excellent point. If the fetus isn't a person, why worry about any of that?

How far down the line are we going to judge and penalize bad parenting?

No one should be forced to carry a pregnancy, give birth, or become a parent against their will. Period.

You're (deliberately?) missing the point. If the fetus isn't a human (according to you), then a pregnant woman is not a parent. So why do you consider it "bad parenting" if a pregnant woman eats poorly and/or uses drugs and alcohol while pregnant?

I never said a fetus isn’t human.

I said it’s not a “person” - not legally.

When a pregnant woman is murdered, the murderer is accused of 2 murders. Not a woman and her fetus, but a woman and her baby.

Not a 14th amendment person.

No social security number, no child support, etc.

I obtained a social security number at age 16. Someone in another country has no social security number. Stop mentioning it as determining personhood.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

I'm pro-choice, but this is an excellent point. If the fetus isn't a person, why worry about any of that?

How far down the line are we going to judge and penalize bad parenting?

No one should be forced to carry a pregnancy, give birth, or become a parent against their will. Period.

You're (deliberately?) missing the point. If the fetus isn't a human (according to you), then a pregnant woman is not a parent. So why do you consider it "bad parenting" if a pregnant woman eats poorly and/or uses drugs and alcohol while pregnant?

I never said a fetus isn’t human.

I said it’s not a “person” - not legally.

When a pregnant woman is murdered, the murderer is accused of 2 murders. Not a woman and her fetus, but a woman and her baby.

Not a 14th amendment person.

No social security number, no child support, etc.

So do you think the murderer should not be charged for the pregnancy-related death?

[Anonymous]

The pro-murder crowd is never going to see the light.

No one is forcing you to have sex in a majority of pregnancies. Can’t handle the result of sex, stop having it murderers!