TJ admissions now verifying free and reduced price meal status for successful 2026 applicants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the long excerpt:
“ She loved racial diversity and the prospect of a “flat world,” but when these things threatened her son’s academic position, that love seemed to sour.”

If 18 out of 21 kids in the class are one group then it’s not very diverse.

18 out of 21 kids in the honors math class are one group. This is a perfect example of the thought process of a lot of white people. Diversity is great when the URMs are in the regular class or occupying a small handful of seats in the honors class. It's concerning when a non-white racial group starts dominating the highest level class and ousting white people from their rightful place at the top.

Cram schools for everyone who wants to be on the top track, sounds like a great idea.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't see much evidence that Asian kids flooded into "under-represented" middle schools like Whitman and Holmes this past year to "game" the new process.

It seems more likely to me that Asian families will just anchor in the top pyramids so they can hedge their bets (still have their kids apply to TJ, but rest assured that the alternative is Langley/McLean/Oakton/Chantilly/Woodson). And, as TJ becomes seen primarily as an alternative to lower-performing high schools, fewer of their kids will apply, just like Asian families in MoCo send their kids to Wootton with only some considering the Blair magnet.

Correct. Asian will stay in top school zones.

Some will have a small house in a lower ranked area and a larger house in the top zone.

Seems so overkill for high school. TJ is just a high school in the end. No one cares if you went to TJ later in life and college outcomes aren’t really better because it’s so competitive. If you read their confessional page, cheating is rampant and kids are totally unhappy. It’s crazy to me that folks are this desperate for TJ. Get a life.

TJ is soooo shiny.

This thread is intended for people interested in TJ. This is not a place to bash TJ as that point is going to fall on deaf ears. What is your purpose except maybe as someone embittered that TJ is unattainable?

I’m not bashing TJ. I’m bashing the parents who have been plotting their child’s path for TJ admissions since 2nd grade because they are obsessed with the prestige.

Why would you bash parents who want their kids to be successful? You seem to be obsessed with perpetuating a particular stereotype of a TJ applicant in the past in order to justify a new process that, as this thread indicates, has been anything but smooth. You've offered next to nothing to suggest that the new process is better at identifying students who may have an actual interest in, or aptitude for, STEM.

I'm bashing parents fostering an unhealthy, toxic environment for our kids.

You could always raise your kids as you see fit, and stop interfering with how other parents raise theirs.

It reeks of privilege for people like you to assert that other parents are somehow fostering an "unhealthy, toxic environment" for your kids. It's like you think you're the ones who should always decide the rules and the appropriate cultural norms.

Hmm. I wonder why teen suicides are out of control. Don’t get me wrong, I blame the sports parents, too. It’s all too much! I feel horrible for these kids who have been robbed of their childhood and expected to plan for a career (or to be an Olympian, get a scholarship, etc) from early childhood. It’s so messed up.

You could just as readily ascribe blame to FCPS officials for keeping schools closed so long, with the resultant isolation, lack of social interaction with peers, and loss of learning. That seems to have much more of an impact on students' mental health than parents encouraging their kids to participate in a Science Olympiad or to apply to TJ.

But, again, if you think it's up to FCPS to counter parents who "rob kids of their childhood," then the logical inference is that you should be advocating for the elimination of the STEM magnet at TJ, and not tinkering with the admissions process to admit more kids who may not be up to the school's challenges.

See, if is all very obvious. The white parents have a playbook which kept them on top. And which they think is the right thing to do. The Asians have a different playbook that they saw. Now that the Asian playbook is winning, whites want to say it is a bad toxi playbook. For a while, whites were embarassed that a minority was doing well. And grudgingly let it go. Then the envy got too much and they started saying you are no longer a minority - let's use the URM weapon to bash them. And here we are. Whatever argument you have - there is a counter. You Asians are just privileged, overworking, cheating, unidimensina, toxic people who need to be replaced. Never mind what your background/income levels are. This is a moment in time to vilify you. There is an absolute problem with the black community which needs to be addressed, but we just have some immigrant kids with motivated patents from Africa and South America being accidental winners here. All power to them. No real impact in areas where there should be. Of course as long as the end result is less Asians. whites are heaving a sigh of temporary relief. There!

Nope.

Whites DGAF. When we looked at the application data on an earlier thread, only 50% of eligible white kids even bothered to apply compared to 90%+ black and Asian kids. White families aren’t “envious” at all.

The community looked at how this valuable resource was being utilized and it was monopolized by a small group of wealthy middle schools. And there were embarrassingly few URMs or ED kids. 0.6% ED in 2024.

Maybe it’s white guilt for building such an unfair system. But it’s certainly not “envy”. You are totally off base.

I disagree. I'm white, and for the most part, white people love the prestige. They just don't want to put in the work like Asian kids do. In this forum alone, there have been numerous threads with parents complaining that their white kids are behind the Asian kids, despite their white kids' superior "natural aptitude." White people want to disincentivize anyone getting rewarded for working harder than they're willing to work. Even in this thread, there are suggestions that the Asian work ethic is toxic, the kids are suffering due to the high expectations, and Asians are doing things wrong because no one is supposed to work that hard in America.

The TJ reform is all about taking away any and all incentives for Asian kids to dominate in academics. If Asian kids are knocked down a few pegs or stop trying so hard, it flows that white kids will look better in comparison. White kids weren't especially interested in TJ because it required too much work for too little gain. If TJ gets watered down and no longer has so many strong Asian students at the top of the class, white kids will flock back.

I 100% disagree (at least for me-I concede that there are probably some white folks who feel as you express). I don’t mind hard work and I expect my kids to work very hard. I hate the aggressive and formulaic approach and I guess I do fear it becomes the norm. I hate the grade grubbing and cheating and all that it leads to (the obsession with test scores, number of APs and GPAs). I also mourn the loss of individuality and creativity. I understand that not all Asian families fit these stereotypes and I definitely knows white families who take similar approaches, so I’m going to say I hate the approach that is the stereotype of an Asian approach no matter what race the parent is. I think it’s destructive and takes the joy out of learning. I’ve worked with people raised under this approach and have found them to be rote and non-creative. Many are in careers they did not choose and hate. I want so much more for my kids than some false idea of prestige and a grind life. You all have a great time at TJ. I suspect it will be the high point of some of your kids’ careers. (Seriously, I saw TJ on the resume of someone in their 30’s. I laughed. We ended up hiring the candidate and they were ok, not great, not terrible.)

If you perceive the "stereotypical Asian" to be aggressive, formulaic, grade grubbing, cheating, non-individual, non-creative, rote, and dissatisfied with their career path, then I am 100% certain that the issue isn't Asians. It's that you're racist. I understand that you'll get defensive and insist that you're somehow not racist, but if you were capable of normal levels of introspection, you'd realize that you're quite racist.

Perhaps you are correct and I think about that a lot because I truly do not want to be racist. I would venture that most people on this thread are racist: the white people think the Asian people are formulaic, the Asians think the white folks are lazy and dumb and many folks (white and Asian?) seem to think the URM are underrepresented at TJ because they simply don’t want to do the work and that poverty and the like doesn’t matter. We should all look at our biases, I 100% agree.

I will say, I think the culture at TJ is toxic. I think white kids grade grub and cheat, too. It’s a shame because it is meant to be a place for kids who like STEM to learn but it has become a hyper competitive nightmare, as has AAP. People push and scheme to get their 8 year olds into AAP, which let’s be honest, is not that special. Most of the other kids in the grade could do the AAP work if they had the opportunity. Yet these kids are taught from third grade on that they are somehow better than everyone else and they are expected to achieve great things. It creates a weird sense of arrogance, combined with fear of not living up to the expectations. My kid hated AAP and was so grateful to get out, not because she hates learning but because of the atmosphere. Math, science and everything fun turned into winning competitions (AMC, Math Counts, Science Olympiad, etc). What could be amazing is totally polluted with an emphasis on getting perfect grades and winning instead of learning and exploring.

Racist? Probably. I think we all are racist in our own way. I will work on being introspective about that, but I ask you to take an honest look at the TJ culture and tell me honestly whether you think it’s healthy and conducive to higher learning and creative thought.

First paragraph: You're absolutely correct. The distasteful part, though, is that white people are the ones with all of the political power, and thus they're the ones who are able to push their own brand of racism on everyone else. The TJ reforms are a perfect example of typical white person racism. They're painting Asians as toxic prep robots and they're also painting URMs as kids who couldn't possibly succeed without their white saviors to swoop in and lower the standards for them. The TJ reforms would have been handled better if non white people had much more input into the process.

2nd paragraph: I don't think the TJ culture is toxic. A lot of the kids thrive there, achieve amazing things, and have a wonderful time. Many of them are quite successful in college and beyond. Some kids there are toxic, but they would be just as toxic at their base schools. Your kid sounds like she has some degree of anxiety if she felt very pressured about winning or perfection. I have a similar kid who also hates seeing everything turn competitive. TJ is likely not a good fit for kids like that. It can't be everything for everyone.

Agree that “non-white” people should have a larger role in the reform process; that means Asian folks and black and brown folks. It should be a representative group. I disagree that white folks necessarily want to “lower” the standards for URM. I think the idea is to find a way to capture bright kids who can achieve but haven’t had the advantages (their school is underperforming and may not offer the advanced classes, their parents didn’t know they could get them accelerated by pushing or putting them in AAP, they can’t afford prep or don’t understand that other kids prep). The ideal is not to “lower” the standard but to find a way to identify those kids. I totally agree that FCPS bungled it. I’m not sure what the right way is, but I don’t think this was it.

You mention that I am biased in suggesting that Asians are “toxic prep robots.” Will you also admit your bias that you think white kids are lazy and stupid?

I’m glad your kid is happy at TJ, truly. I hope most kids there are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the long excerpt:
“ She loved racial diversity and the prospect of a “flat world,” but when these things threatened her son’s academic position, that love seemed to sour.”

If 18 out of 21 kids in the class are one group then it’s not very diverse.

18 out of 21 kids in the honors math class are one group. This is a perfect example of the thought process of a lot of white people. Diversity is great when the URMs are in the regular class or occupying a small handful of seats in the honors class. It's concerning when a non-white racial group starts dominating the highest level class and ousting white people from their rightful place at the top.

Cram schools for everyone who wants to be on the top track, sounds like a great idea.

Ugh. Supplemental classes are not the same as cram school. There's nothing wrong with doing an AoPS or RSM class, especially considering how poorly public schools teach math. Also, you don't get to control other people. Asian kids want to be on top and put in work to make it happen. White kids want to be on top, but the only work they want to do is complain about Asian strivers.

The lady in the article places a lot of value on having her kid in the top group and feels that her kid deserves to be there even when outperformed by a lot of other kids. For the lady in the article, there are two obvious solutions: Put your kid in supplemental math, or accept that your kid might not be in the top group. Unfortunately, there's also the 3rd solution: Leverage your white privilege to eliminate the top group altogether, so your less qualified white kid looks no worse than the more qualified Asian kids. This is happening across the country. It is not a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the long excerpt:
“ She loved racial diversity and the prospect of a “flat world,” but when these things threatened her son’s academic position, that love seemed to sour.”

If 18 out of 21 kids in the class are one group then it’s not very diverse.

18 out of 21 kids in the honors math class are one group. This is a perfect example of the thought process of a lot of white people. Diversity is great when the URMs are in the regular class or occupying a small handful of seats in the honors class. It's concerning when a non-white racial group starts dominating the highest level class and ousting white people from their rightful place at the top.

Cram schools for everyone who wants to be on the top track, sounds like a great idea.

Ugh. Supplemental classes are not the same as cram school. There's nothing wrong with doing an AoPS or RSM class, especially considering how poorly public schools teach math. Also, you don't get to control other people. Asian kids want to be on top and put in work to make it happen. White kids want to be on top, but the only work they want to do is complain about Asian strivers.

The lady in the article places a lot of value on having her kid in the top group and feels that her kid deserves to be there even when outperformed by a lot of other kids. For the lady in the article, there are two obvious solutions: Put your kid in supplemental math, or accept that your kid might not be in the top group. Unfortunately, there's also the 3rd solution: Leverage your white privilege to eliminate the top group altogether, so your less qualified white kid looks no worse than the more qualified Asian kids. This is happening across the country. It is not a good thing.

I'll go with option 3. Placement in public school classes shouldn't depend on the ability to supplement after school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't see much evidence that Asian kids flooded into "under-represented" middle schools like Whitman and Holmes this past year to "game" the new process.

It seems more likely to me that Asian families will just anchor in the top pyramids so they can hedge their bets (still have their kids apply to TJ, but rest assured that the alternative is Langley/McLean/Oakton/Chantilly/Woodson). And, as TJ becomes seen primarily as an alternative to lower-performing high schools, fewer of their kids will apply, just like Asian families in MoCo send their kids to Wootton with only some considering the Blair magnet.

Correct. Asian will stay in top school zones.

Some will have a small house in a lower ranked area and a larger house in the top zone.

Seems so overkill for high school. TJ is just a high school in the end. No one cares if you went to TJ later in life and college outcomes aren’t really better because it’s so competitive. If you read their confessional page, cheating is rampant and kids are totally unhappy. It’s crazy to me that folks are this desperate for TJ. Get a life.

TJ is soooo shiny.

This thread is intended for people interested in TJ. This is not a place to bash TJ as that point is going to fall on deaf ears. What is your purpose except maybe as someone embittered that TJ is unattainable?

I’m not bashing TJ. I’m bashing the parents who have been plotting their child’s path for TJ admissions since 2nd grade because they are obsessed with the prestige.

Why would you bash parents who want their kids to be successful? You seem to be obsessed with perpetuating a particular stereotype of a TJ applicant in the past in order to justify a new process that, as this thread indicates, has been anything but smooth. You've offered next to nothing to suggest that the new process is better at identifying students who may have an actual interest in, or aptitude for, STEM.

I'm bashing parents fostering an unhealthy, toxic environment for our kids.

You could always raise your kids as you see fit, and stop interfering with how other parents raise theirs.

It reeks of privilege for people like you to assert that other parents are somehow fostering an "unhealthy, toxic environment" for your kids. It's like you think you're the ones who should always decide the rules and the appropriate cultural norms.

Hmm. I wonder why teen suicides are out of control. Don’t get me wrong, I blame the sports parents, too. It’s all too much! I feel horrible for these kids who have been robbed of their childhood and expected to plan for a career (or to be an Olympian, get a scholarship, etc) from early childhood. It’s so messed up.

You could just as readily ascribe blame to FCPS officials for keeping schools closed so long, with the resultant isolation, lack of social interaction with peers, and loss of learning. That seems to have much more of an impact on students' mental health than parents encouraging their kids to participate in a Science Olympiad or to apply to TJ.

But, again, if you think it's up to FCPS to counter parents who "rob kids of their childhood," then the logical inference is that you should be advocating for the elimination of the STEM magnet at TJ, and not tinkering with the admissions process to admit more kids who may not be up to the school's challenges.

See, if is all very obvious. The white parents have a playbook which kept them on top. And which they think is the right thing to do. The Asians have a different playbook that they saw. Now that the Asian playbook is winning, whites want to say it is a bad toxi playbook. For a while, whites were embarassed that a minority was doing well. And grudgingly let it go. Then the envy got too much and they started saying you are no longer a minority - let's use the URM weapon to bash them. And here we are. Whatever argument you have - there is a counter. You Asians are just privileged, overworking, cheating, unidimensina, toxic people who need to be replaced. Never mind what your background/income levels are. This is a moment in time to vilify you. There is an absolute problem with the black community which needs to be addressed, but we just have some immigrant kids with motivated patents from Africa and South America being accidental winners here. All power to them. No real impact in areas where there should be. Of course as long as the end result is less Asians. whites are heaving a sigh of temporary relief. There!

Nope.

Whites DGAF. When we looked at the application data on an earlier thread, only 50% of eligible white kids even bothered to apply compared to 90%+ black and Asian kids. White families aren’t “envious” at all.

The community looked at how this valuable resource was being utilized and it was monopolized by a small group of wealthy middle schools. And there were embarrassingly few URMs or ED kids. 0.6% ED in 2024.

Maybe it’s white guilt for building such an unfair system. But it’s certainly not “envy”. You are totally off base.

I disagree. I'm white, and for the most part, white people love the prestige. They just don't want to put in the work like Asian kids do. In this forum alone, there have been numerous threads with parents complaining that their white kids are behind the Asian kids, despite their white kids' superior "natural aptitude." White people want to disincentivize anyone getting rewarded for working harder than they're willing to work. Even in this thread, there are suggestions that the Asian work ethic is toxic, the kids are suffering due to the high expectations, and Asians are doing things wrong because no one is supposed to work that hard in America.

The TJ reform is all about taking away any and all incentives for Asian kids to dominate in academics. If Asian kids are knocked down a few pegs or stop trying so hard, it flows that white kids will look better in comparison. White kids weren't especially interested in TJ because it required too much work for too little gain. If TJ gets watered down and no longer has so many strong Asian students at the top of the class, white kids will flock back.

I 100% disagree (at least for me-I concede that there are probably some white folks who feel as you express). I don’t mind hard work and I expect my kids to work very hard. I hate the aggressive and formulaic approach and I guess I do fear it becomes the norm. I hate the grade grubbing and cheating and all that it leads to (the obsession with test scores, number of APs and GPAs). I also mourn the loss of individuality and creativity. I understand that not all Asian families fit these stereotypes and I definitely knows white families who take similar approaches, so I’m going to say I hate the approach that is the stereotype of an Asian approach no matter what race the parent is. I think it’s destructive and takes the joy out of learning. I’ve worked with people raised under this approach and have found them to be rote and non-creative. Many are in careers they did not choose and hate. I want so much more for my kids than some false idea of prestige and a grind life. You all have a great time at TJ. I suspect it will be the high point of some of your kids’ careers. (Seriously, I saw TJ on the resume of someone in their 30’s. I laughed. We ended up hiring the candidate and they were ok, not great, not terrible.)

If you perceive the "stereotypical Asian" to be aggressive, formulaic, grade grubbing, cheating, non-individual, non-creative, rote, and dissatisfied with their career path, then I am 100% certain that the issue isn't Asians. It's that you're racist. I understand that you'll get defensive and insist that you're somehow not racist, but if you were capable of normal levels of introspection, you'd realize that you're quite racist.

Perhaps you are correct and I think about that a lot because I truly do not want to be racist. I would venture that most people on this thread are racist: the white people think the Asian people are formulaic, the Asians think the white folks are lazy and dumb and many folks (white and Asian?) seem to think the URM are underrepresented at TJ because they simply don’t want to do the work and that poverty and the like doesn’t matter. We should all look at our biases, I 100% agree.

I will say, I think the culture at TJ is toxic. I think white kids grade grub and cheat, too. It’s a shame because it is meant to be a place for kids who like STEM to learn but it has become a hyper competitive nightmare, as has AAP. People push and scheme to get their 8 year olds into AAP, which let’s be honest, is not that special. Most of the other kids in the grade could do the AAP work if they had the opportunity. Yet these kids are taught from third grade on that they are somehow better than everyone else and they are expected to achieve great things. It creates a weird sense of arrogance, combined with fear of not living up to the expectations. My kid hated AAP and was so grateful to get out, not because she hates learning but because of the atmosphere. Math, science and everything fun turned into winning competitions (AMC, Math Counts, Science Olympiad, etc). What could be amazing is totally polluted with an emphasis on getting perfect grades and winning instead of learning and exploring.

Racist? Probably. I think we all are racist in our own way. I will work on being introspective about that, but I ask you to take an honest look at the TJ culture and tell me honestly whether you think it’s healthy and conducive to higher learning and creative thought.

First paragraph: You're absolutely correct. The distasteful part, though, is that white people are the ones with all of the political power, and thus they're the ones who are able to push their own brand of racism on everyone else. The TJ reforms are a perfect example of typical white person racism. They're painting Asians as toxic prep robots and they're also painting URMs as kids who couldn't possibly succeed without their white saviors to swoop in and lower the standards for them. The TJ reforms would have been handled better if non white people had much more input into the process.

2nd paragraph: I don't think the TJ culture is toxic. A lot of the kids thrive there, achieve amazing things, and have a wonderful time. Many of them are quite successful in college and beyond. Some kids there are toxic, but they would be just as toxic at their base schools. Your kid sounds like she has some degree of anxiety if she felt very pressured about winning or perfection. I have a similar kid who also hates seeing everything turn competitive. TJ is likely not a good fit for kids like that. It can't be everything for everyone.

Agree that “non-white” people should have a larger role in the reform process; that means Asian folks and black and brown folks. It should be a representative group. I disagree that white folks necessarily want to “lower” the standards for URM. I think the idea is to find a way to capture bright kids who can achieve but haven’t had the advantages (their school is underperforming and may not offer the advanced classes, their parents didn’t know they could get them accelerated by pushing or putting them in AAP, they can’t afford prep or don’t understand that other kids prep). The ideal is not to “lower” the standard but to find a way to identify those kids. I totally agree that FCPS bungled it. I’m not sure what the right way is, but I don’t think this was it.

You mention that I am biased in suggesting that Asians are “toxic prep robots.” Will you also admit your bias that you think white kids are lazy and stupid?

I’m glad your kid is happy at TJ, truly. I hope most kids there are.

Hunting for unicorns in the lower SES schools is basically the same thing as lowering standards for URMs in an attempt to act as a white savior. The new system assumes that within FCPS, there are gifted STEM diamonds in the rough who somehow failed to earn high scores on NNAT/CogAT, failed to impress any teacher along the way, as a result, failed to get into AAP, failed to qualify for Algebra I in 7th, failed to impress any MS teachers enough to get a good recommendation, and failed to do anything in the way of STEM ECs, and would fail to score highly enough on any standardized TJ test, yet still belong at TJ. This is also with all tests being normed for an un-prepped population, such that a naturally gifted kid ought to be able to score 98th% or higher with no prep.

I get that there was a huge problem with the Quant-Q and the way they used local percentile ranks to gatekeep Semifinalist status. The obvious solution is to get rid of the Quant Q, but keep the rest of the process the same as it was. They could even add essays about the biggest obstacle a kid has faced or whatever unique perspective the kid could bring to TJ, and then review those holistically with the rest of the file. Instead, they gutted the process such that they can't possibly differentiate between the gifted kids and the somewhat above average kids.

I am white. I've also coached math teams. The white kids IME are generally much lazier and much less successful than the Asian kids. There is nothing wrong with a kid deciding that he would rather spend his time pursuing other hobbies than he would studying for math contests. But, he doesn't get to complain when some of the Asian kids earn higher scores. Talent + effort beats talent alone. There is nothing wrong or unhealthy with teaching kids this fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the long excerpt:
“ She loved racial diversity and the prospect of a “flat world,” but when these things threatened her son’s academic position, that love seemed to sour.”

If 18 out of 21 kids in the class are one group then it’s not very diverse.

18 out of 21 kids in the honors math class are one group. This is a perfect example of the thought process of a lot of white people. Diversity is great when the URMs are in the regular class or occupying a small handful of seats in the honors class. It's concerning when a non-white racial group starts dominating the highest level class and ousting white people from their rightful place at the top.

Cram schools for everyone who wants to be on the top track, sounds like a great idea.

Ugh. Supplemental classes are not the same as cram school. There's nothing wrong with doing an AoPS or RSM class, especially considering how poorly public schools teach math. Also, you don't get to control other people. Asian kids want to be on top and put in work to make it happen. White kids want to be on top, but the only work they want to do is complain about Asian strivers.

The lady in the article places a lot of value on having her kid in the top group and feels that her kid deserves to be there even when outperformed by a lot of other kids. For the lady in the article, there are two obvious solutions: Put your kid in supplemental math, or accept that your kid might not be in the top group. Unfortunately, there's also the 3rd solution: Leverage your white privilege to eliminate the top group altogether, so your less qualified white kid looks no worse than the more qualified Asian kids. This is happening across the country. It is not a good thing.

I'll go with option 3. Placement in public school classes shouldn't depend on the ability to supplement after school.

How about sports and musical instruments? We should not enroll the kids in any classes outside of the school system? What about their own interests? Why are we assume the kids in AoPS or RSM classes only because they want to be on top of the class....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the long excerpt:
“ She loved racial diversity and the prospect of a “flat world,” but when these things threatened her son’s academic position, that love seemed to sour.”

If 18 out of 21 kids in the class are one group then it’s not very diverse.

18 out of 21 kids in the honors math class are one group. This is a perfect example of the thought process of a lot of white people. Diversity is great when the URMs are in the regular class or occupying a small handful of seats in the honors class. It's concerning when a non-white racial group starts dominating the highest level class and ousting white people from their rightful place at the top.

There isn’t an issue with 18 out of 21 - it’s just not “diverse”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the long excerpt:
“ She loved racial diversity and the prospect of a “flat world,” but when these things threatened her son’s academic position, that love seemed to sour.”

If 18 out of 21 kids in the class are one group then it’s not very diverse.

18 out of 21 kids in the honors math class are one group. This is a perfect example of the thought process of a lot of white people. Diversity is great when the URMs are in the regular class or occupying a small handful of seats in the honors class. It's concerning when a non-white racial group starts dominating the highest level class and ousting white people from their rightful place at the top.

Cram schools for everyone who wants to be on the top track, sounds like a great idea.

Ugh. Supplemental classes are not the same as cram school. There's nothing wrong with doing an AoPS or RSM class, especially considering how poorly public schools teach math. Also, you don't get to control other people. Asian kids want to be on top and put in work to make it happen. White kids want to be on top, but the only work they want to do is complain about Asian strivers.

The lady in the article places a lot of value on having her kid in the top group and feels that her kid deserves to be there even when outperformed by a lot of other kids. For the lady in the article, there are two obvious solutions: Put your kid in supplemental math, or accept that your kid might not be in the top group. Unfortunately, there's also the 3rd solution: Leverage your white privilege to eliminate the top group altogether, so your less qualified white kid looks no worse than the more qualified Asian kids. This is happening across the country. It is not a good thing.

I'll go with option 3. Placement in public school classes shouldn't depend on the ability to supplement after school.

Why are you placing so much importance on having your kid in the top class? It shouldn't matter which class is the "top" one. The only thing that should matter is that every kid is learning new material at a level appropriate to that kid's current achievement level. If some kids are ready for Algebra I earlier than your kid is, how is that really hurting your child? They will take the class when they're ready. Your kid will take it when he's ready. Everyone wins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the long excerpt:
“ She loved racial diversity and the prospect of a “flat world,” but when these things threatened her son’s academic position, that love seemed to sour.”

If 18 out of 21 kids in the class are one group then it’s not very diverse.

18 out of 21 kids in the honors math class are one group. This is a perfect example of the thought process of a lot of white people. Diversity is great when the URMs are in the regular class or occupying a small handful of seats in the honors class. It's concerning when a non-white racial group starts dominating the highest level class and ousting white people from their rightful place at the top.

Cram schools for everyone who wants to be on the top track, sounds like a great idea.

Ugh. Supplemental classes are not the same as cram school. There's nothing wrong with doing an AoPS or RSM class, especially considering how poorly public schools teach math. Also, you don't get to control other people. Asian kids want to be on top and put in work to make it happen. White kids want to be on top, but the only work they want to do is complain about Asian strivers.

The lady in the article places a lot of value on having her kid in the top group and feels that her kid deserves to be there even when outperformed by a lot of other kids. For the lady in the article, there are two obvious solutions: Put your kid in supplemental math, or accept that your kid might not be in the top group. Unfortunately, there's also the 3rd solution: Leverage your white privilege to eliminate the top group altogether, so your less qualified white kid looks no worse than the more qualified Asian kids. This is happening across the country. It is not a good thing.

I'll go with option 3. Placement in public school classes shouldn't depend on the ability to supplement after school.

Agreed, which is why I think that it is ok to require Geometry for TJ. Kids who are in AAP or Advanced Math across the County have access to a math track that could get them to Geometry in 8th Grade. There is no need for outside supplementation to get there. TJ is a STEM school where there are classes that require math above Calculus, so making sure kids have the math background to take advantage of those classes is fair. Every MS in the County should be able to produce 6-9 kids who have completed Geometry and have a 3.5 or even a 3.75 GPA.

I get that there are kids who are able to take Algebra in 6th grade, and even some that take Algebra earlier, but that track is not universally available. I don't think kids should feel like they have to take Geometry in summer school to get to Algebra II by 8th grade to qualify for TJ.

I don't think that extra curricular activities or supplementation should be included on the application because it is not universally available. And a kid who is great at math and has the GPA and has completed Algebra 1 and Geometry H by 8th grade might not be able to stay after school for extra curriculars because they have other requirements at home. The lack of extra curriculars should not be assumed to be a lack of interest in STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the long excerpt:
“ She loved racial diversity and the prospect of a “flat world,” but when these things threatened her son’s academic position, that love seemed to sour.”

If 18 out of 21 kids in the class are one group then it’s not very diverse.

18 out of 21 kids in the honors math class are one group. This is a perfect example of the thought process of a lot of white people. Diversity is great when the URMs are in the regular class or occupying a small handful of seats in the honors class. It's concerning when a non-white racial group starts dominating the highest level class and ousting white people from their rightful place at the top.

There isn’t an issue with 18 out of 21 - it’s just not “diverse”.

Reading comprehension? The school as a whole is diverse. The honors math class isn't. The lady in the article loves diversity when it's a lot of URMs in the lower tracks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the long excerpt:
“ She loved racial diversity and the prospect of a “flat world,” but when these things threatened her son’s academic position, that love seemed to sour.”

If 18 out of 21 kids in the class are one group then it’s not very diverse.

Overly qualified students are rejected every year. This happens because there are more qualified students than there are spots in these programs.

Overly qualified students were not rejected every year. If a kid had a 4.0, was taking Honors Pre-Calc in 8th, and had some national level STEM achievement, that kid was getting accepted in the past. Now, it's a huge crapshoot since there's no mechanism whatsoever for identifying the top kids at the higher SES schools. It's not about Carson kids vs. Whitman kids. It's about the 4.0 Carson kid receiving tons of tutoring to keep that 4.0 in Algebra I with no STEM ECs or achievements vs. the 4.0 Carson kid in Pre-Calc with national level STEM achievements. Both look the same on paper, even though the first kid is completely average for the high SES cohort.

+1 This is what bugging me most about the new process. There is no way to identify the talent when the only two things considered are unweighted GPA and a massive importance to the essays. That leaves SPS as the only place where kids can 'brag' about their achievements, where any kid can absolutely say anything or exaggerate even tiniest achievements while knowing there will be absolutely no validation at all. Introverted kids are generally shy about bragging and they might even underrepresent their real achievements. Moreover, essays do not really test STEM and grading is very subjecting depending on who is reading them.

There is a whole another angle that few others tried to point out earlier, but got overlooked. TJ used to be hard to get in and hard to keep up school and kids who got in were considered much smarter than average - I used to hear (from kids) that only about top 5% of AAP kids generally get into TJ. Now the MS kids no longer consider TJ is hard to get in and even implying its like a lottery as there is absolutely no correlation among who got in vs who didn't. It is true that they are some smarter kids got in, but there are actual AAP kids who couldn't even get into algebra I in 7th grade, have zero stem electives or activities, not all As/A-s also got into TJ. Where as, many straight A students with tons of STEM didn't get the admission. So far TJ has the impression that it is hard to keep up even after you get in, but that might likely change and the school may even be forced to lower their standards to cater to new set of students to prevent them from failing or dropping out.

You might want to call the TJ environment as toxic, which might very well be the case, but it was actually an environment that rewarded the hard work on top of the intelligence. Kids/Parents always understood that only one of the factors (intelligence or hard work) don't usually cut it. The new process wanted to completely eliminate the hard work from the equation, but the side effect likely eliminated the intelligence as well. Imagine the companies like google (or any other hard to get in companies) or agencies like CIA changed or lowered their standards for more inclusivity when acceptance is no longer considered exclusive, but random with some min qualification, how would your perception change? Everyone, both who are pro and against the new process, wants more diversity, but did TJ fix the problem the right way?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the long excerpt:
“ She loved racial diversity and the prospect of a “flat world,” but when these things threatened her son’s academic position, that love seemed to sour.”

If 18 out of 21 kids in the class are one group then it’s not very diverse.

18 out of 21 kids in the honors math class are one group. This is a perfect example of the thought process of a lot of white people. Diversity is great when the URMs are in the regular class or occupying a small handful of seats in the honors class. It's concerning when a non-white racial group starts dominating the highest level class and ousting white people from their rightful place at the top.

Cram schools for everyone who wants to be on the top track, sounds like a great idea.

Ugh. Supplemental classes are not the same as cram school. There's nothing wrong with doing an AoPS or RSM class, especially considering how poorly public schools teach math. Also, you don't get to control other people. Asian kids want to be on top and put in work to make it happen. White kids want to be on top, but the only work they want to do is complain about Asian strivers.

The lady in the article places a lot of value on having her kid in the top group and feels that her kid deserves to be there even when outperformed by a lot of other kids. For the lady in the article, there are two obvious solutions: Put your kid in supplemental math, or accept that your kid might not be in the top group. Unfortunately, there's also the 3rd solution: Leverage your white privilege to eliminate the top group altogether, so your less qualified white kid looks no worse than the more qualified Asian kids. This is happening across the country. It is not a good thing.

I'll go with option 3. Placement in public school classes shouldn't depend on the ability to supplement after school.

Why are you placing so much importance on having your kid in the top class? It shouldn't matter which class is the "top" one. The only thing that should matter is that every kid is learning new material at a level appropriate to that kid's current achievement level. If some kids are ready for Algebra I earlier than your kid is, how is that really hurting your child? They will take the class when they're ready. Your kid will take it when he's ready. Everyone wins.

Not every kid has the opportunity to supplement. Not every kid has the money to supplement. And they might not know about scholarships. Or they might not have the time because they are needed to help the family in some way. Not every kid knows that these programs exist and their parents might not know that these programs exist.

Why do you have such a problem with the idea that a Public School should be looking to serve the entire population and not just the population that has the ability/interest/knowledge to supplement so that a child has the chance to participate.

I am assuming that the kids who are attending these extra programs enjoy them and want to be there. They should continue to enjoy those programs and classes even if they are not attending TJ. They will help on college applications and they do help to improve grades and school performance. They are important educational programs and life skills programs regardless of going to TJ or not.

Acceptance into a public school should be based on opportunities that all kids have.

If you want the extra curriculars and supplementation to influence your child's acceptance then apply to Private Schools where they are able to look at those for acceptance because their schools can look however they want them to look. Public Schools are different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The toxic exists in everybody’s mind, if there is any of them.
You can enjoy study without considering winning competition.
Some other kids enjoys competition and decide to work hard. There is nothing wrong with it. No toxic.
Toxic comes when you think those diligent kids takes your opportunities away. Toxic is in your mind.

Go ahead and tell yourself that, but one day you may be honest with yourself.

PP was right that there’s a lot of projection. Resentful parents call other parents/kids “toxic” because they want their own kids to be on top without working as hard.

Or they fear for our (collective) children’s mental health. I’m perfectly fine with my kid not being at the top because they are older now and I’ve seen the toll this sort of approach has on many kids. My own kid has gotten therapy and is in a much better place (although admittedly, we recently got a crisis phone call about a B+ in a college class). Take whatever approach you want, but do it at your peril. My kid is out of high school now and not competing with yours so it does not impact me except in the sense of watching the collective mental health decline.

Exactly.

I was top in my class. Top schools for undergrad and grad. Prestigious grants, internships, and job offers. Years later, I’m working with an amazing group of people from extremely diverse backgrounds. “Prestige” isn’t all that.

And I’m not pushing my kids to be at the top. I do push them to work hard and do their best but not at the cost of a social life, athletics, hobbies, etc. Or risk of anxiety/extreme stress.

My 8th grader is at the top of his HS class and he didn’t get into TJ. We are completely fine with that. He will have a great outcome at his base school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the long excerpt:
“ She loved racial diversity and the prospect of a “flat world,” but when these things threatened her son’s academic position, that love seemed to sour.”

If 18 out of 21 kids in the class are one group then it’s not very diverse.

18 out of 21 kids in the honors math class are one group. This is a perfect example of the thought process of a lot of white people. Diversity is great when the URMs are in the regular class or occupying a small handful of seats in the honors class. It's concerning when a non-white racial group starts dominating the highest level class and ousting white people from their rightful place at the top.

There isn’t an issue with 18 out of 21 - it’s just not “diverse”.

Reading comprehension? The school as a whole is diverse. The honors math class isn't. The lady in the article loves diversity when it's a lot of URMs in the lower tracks.

That was my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From the long excerpt:
“ She loved racial diversity and the prospect of a “flat world,” but when these things threatened her son’s academic position, that love seemed to sour.”

If 18 out of 21 kids in the class are one group then it’s not very diverse.

18 out of 21 kids in the honors math class are one group. This is a perfect example of the thought process of a lot of white people. Diversity is great when the URMs are in the regular class or occupying a small handful of seats in the honors class. It's concerning when a non-white racial group starts dominating the highest level class and ousting white people from their rightful place at the top.

Cram schools for everyone who wants to be on the top track, sounds like a great idea.

Ugh. Supplemental classes are not the same as cram school. There's nothing wrong with doing an AoPS or RSM class, especially considering how poorly public schools teach math. Also, you don't get to control other people. Asian kids want to be on top and put in work to make it happen. White kids want to be on top, but the only work they want to do is complain about Asian strivers.

The lady in the article places a lot of value on having her kid in the top group and feels that her kid deserves to be there even when outperformed by a lot of other kids. For the lady in the article, there are two obvious solutions: Put your kid in supplemental math, or accept that your kid might not be in the top group. Unfortunately, there's also the 3rd solution: Leverage your white privilege to eliminate the top group altogether, so your less qualified white kid looks no worse than the more qualified Asian kids. This is happening across the country. It is not a good thing.

I'll go with option 3. Placement in public school classes shouldn't depend on the ability to supplement after school.

Agreed, which is why I think that it is ok to require Geometry for TJ. Kids who are in AAP or Advanced Math across the County have access to a math track that could get them to Geometry in 8th Grade. There is no need for outside supplementation to get there. TJ is a STEM school where there are classes that require math above Calculus, so making sure kids have the math background to take advantage of those classes is fair. Every MS in the County should be able to produce 6-9 kids who have completed Geometry and have a 3.5 or even a 3.75 GPA.

I get that there are kids who are able to take Algebra in 6th grade, and even some that take Algebra earlier, but that track is not universally available. I don't think kids should feel like they have to take Geometry in summer school to get to Algebra II by 8th grade to qualify for TJ.

I don't think that extra curricular activities or supplementation should be included on the application because it is not universally available. And a kid who is great at math and has the GPA and has completed Algebra 1 and Geometry H by 8th grade might not be able to stay after school for extra curriculars because they have other requirements at home. The lack of extra curriculars should not be assumed to be a lack of interest in STEM.