TJ admissions now verifying free and reduced price meal status for successful 2026 applicants

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They aren't looking for advanced problem solvers either. Each of the last two years, an 8th grade JMO qualifier got rejected from TJ.

I'm not even specifically stating that kids with high AMC 10 scores or kids taking Calculus in 8th or 9th grade ought to be guaranteed admissions. I think that if a child is taking precalc in 8th, has straight As throughout, and has qualified for AIME a couple times, that kid is the real deal. Kids like this should undoubtedly be accepted to TJ. I would not be surprised if the majority of kids that FCPS has accelerated to Algebra in 5th or earlier would fit this profile.

How would they know about it, since JMO qualifier is well after applications are in.

JMO qualifiers may not be known before applications are due, but the status is known well before TJ decisions are made. Even if the kid didn't state their status on the application, because they wouldn't have known at the time, it would be entirely possible for TJ admissions to take note of the 1 or 2 FCPS 8th graders who made JMO, and then take that into consideration when evaluating applications. The same is the case for Mathcounts. By the end of March, the top kids in the state are known. Someone could audit the TJ applications and make note of the kids who finish in the top 10 in the state.

Also, every JMO qualifier is going to have a very high AMC 10 score. These scores are known before the applications are due. When only 15 8th graders in VA are qualifying for AIME, and the bulk of those are within 10 points of the cutoff, the kids who are > 25 points above the cutoff should stand out.

How do you know that those things were NOT taken into consideration, and that those same students weren’t found wanting in other areas?

You don’t. Plain and simple.

Now come on that is just silly. You cannot know anything about the current application process if you say this.

I fully support the shift to having a minimum set of seats for all middle schools but WITHIN a middle school and/or for the extra kids not allocated seats from the middle school process I think you do need a way to ensure the tippy top off the charts math kids get in. And there is nothing to guarantee that now.

Some middle schools don’t have “top off the charts” kids but they are not freshmen and sophomores anyway.

You need to stop obsessing about this. TJ’s future has been decided - it will be an above-average high school in the future, not the #1 school in the country.

I know! When they eliminated the 2nd and 3rd tier preppers and replaced them with naturally gifted students in the selection it made the latest crop of TJ admits among the strongest in the school's history.

Agree all the metrics make it clear and I've heard the place is a lot less toxic now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They aren't looking for advanced problem solvers either. Each of the last two years, an 8th grade JMO qualifier got rejected from TJ.

I'm not even specifically stating that kids with high AMC 10 scores or kids taking Calculus in 8th or 9th grade ought to be guaranteed admissions. I think that if a child is taking precalc in 8th, has straight As throughout, and has qualified for AIME a couple times, that kid is the real deal. Kids like this should undoubtedly be accepted to TJ. I would not be surprised if the majority of kids that FCPS has accelerated to Algebra in 5th or earlier would fit this profile.

How would they know about it, since JMO qualifier is well after applications are in.

JMO qualifiers may not be known before applications are due, but the status is known well before TJ decisions are made. Even if the kid didn't state their status on the application, because they wouldn't have known at the time, it would be entirely possible for TJ admissions to take note of the 1 or 2 FCPS 8th graders who made JMO, and then take that into consideration when evaluating applications. The same is the case for Mathcounts. By the end of March, the top kids in the state are known. Someone could audit the TJ applications and make note of the kids who finish in the top 10 in the state.

Also, every JMO qualifier is going to have a very high AMC 10 score. These scores are known before the applications are due. When only 15 8th graders in VA are qualifying for AIME, and the bulk of those are within 10 points of the cutoff, the kids who are > 25 points above the cutoff should stand out.

How do you know that those things were NOT taken into consideration, and that those same students weren’t found wanting in other areas?

You don’t. Plain and simple.

What we all do know is that no points are awarded for being in Calc rather than Algebra I and having As throughout. No points are awarded for extraordinary STEM achievements. Very few points are awarded for kids with 4.0s vs. kids with 3.5s. Almost all of the points were based on essays about how the kid handles conflict, who the kid most admires, or other non merit based Portrait of a Graduate BS. The current process is not looking for exceptional STEM students, and it has no mechanism for identifying and rewarding them.

I also know of several very mediocre kids who were admitted at my AAP center. Had there been a comprehensive application or had pretty much anything of substance been considered, there's no way they would have been admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They aren't looking for advanced problem solvers either. Each of the last two years, an 8th grade JMO qualifier got rejected from TJ.

I'm not even specifically stating that kids with high AMC 10 scores or kids taking Calculus in 8th or 9th grade ought to be guaranteed admissions. I think that if a child is taking precalc in 8th, has straight As throughout, and has qualified for AIME a couple times, that kid is the real deal. Kids like this should undoubtedly be accepted to TJ. I would not be surprised if the majority of kids that FCPS has accelerated to Algebra in 5th or earlier would fit this profile.

How would they know about it, since JMO qualifier is well after applications are in.

JMO qualifiers may not be known before applications are due, but the status is known well before TJ decisions are made. Even if the kid didn't state their status on the application, because they wouldn't have known at the time, it would be entirely possible for TJ admissions to take note of the 1 or 2 FCPS 8th graders who made JMO, and then take that into consideration when evaluating applications. The same is the case for Mathcounts. By the end of March, the top kids in the state are known. Someone could audit the TJ applications and make note of the kids who finish in the top 10 in the state.

Also, every JMO qualifier is going to have a very high AMC 10 score. These scores are known before the applications are due. When only 15 8th graders in VA are qualifying for AIME, and the bulk of those are within 10 points of the cutoff, the kids who are > 25 points above the cutoff should stand out.

How do you know that those things were NOT taken into consideration, and that those same students weren’t found wanting in other areas?

You don’t. Plain and simple.

Now come on that is just silly. You cannot know anything about the current application process if you say this.

I fully support the shift to having a minimum set of seats for all middle schools but WITHIN a middle school and/or for the extra kids not allocated seats from the middle school process I think you do need a way to ensure the tippy top off the charts math kids get in. And there is nothing to guarantee that now.

If you have a way to GUARANTEE that any segment of kids get into TJ, two things will happen:

1) Parents will literally sell their souls to pose their children as one of those kids;

2) FCPS will be forced to admit kids who fit that segment who have no business at TJ. I’ve seen dozens of extremely advanced math students who should never have been allowed within a mile of TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They aren't looking for advanced problem solvers either. Each of the last two years, an 8th grade JMO qualifier got rejected from TJ.

I'm not even specifically stating that kids with high AMC 10 scores or kids taking Calculus in 8th or 9th grade ought to be guaranteed admissions. I think that if a child is taking precalc in 8th, has straight As throughout, and has qualified for AIME a couple times, that kid is the real deal. Kids like this should undoubtedly be accepted to TJ. I would not be surprised if the majority of kids that FCPS has accelerated to Algebra in 5th or earlier would fit this profile.

How would they know about it, since JMO qualifier is well after applications are in.

JMO qualifiers may not be known before applications are due, but the status is known well before TJ decisions are made. Even if the kid didn't state their status on the application, because they wouldn't have known at the time, it would be entirely possible for TJ admissions to take note of the 1 or 2 FCPS 8th graders who made JMO, and then take that into consideration when evaluating applications. The same is the case for Mathcounts. By the end of March, the top kids in the state are known. Someone could audit the TJ applications and make note of the kids who finish in the top 10 in the state.

Also, every JMO qualifier is going to have a very high AMC 10 score. These scores are known before the applications are due. When only 15 8th graders in VA are qualifying for AIME, and the bulk of those are within 10 points of the cutoff, the kids who are > 25 points above the cutoff should stand out.

How do you know that those things were NOT taken into consideration, and that those same students weren’t found wanting in other areas?

You don’t. Plain and simple.

Now come on that is just silly. You cannot know anything about the current application process if you say this.

I fully support the shift to having a minimum set of seats for all middle schools but WITHIN a middle school and/or for the extra kids not allocated seats from the middle school process I think you do need a way to ensure the tippy top off the charts math kids get in. And there is nothing to guarantee that now.

Some middle schools don’t have “top off the charts” kids but they are not freshmen and sophomores anyway.

You need to stop obsessing about this. TJ’s future has been decided - it will be an above-average high school in the future, not the #1 school in the country.

I know! When they eliminated the 2nd and 3rd tier preppers and replaced them with naturally gifted students in the selection it made the latest crop of TJ admits among the strongest in the school's history.

And that's why many of them can't even score pass-advanced on dumbed down SOLs. (They are referred to as LoLs at TJ since they are ridiculously easy to get pass advanced).

Literally no one at TJ cares about SOLs, to include the teachers and administration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They aren't looking for advanced problem solvers either. Each of the last two years, an 8th grade JMO qualifier got rejected from TJ.

I'm not even specifically stating that kids with high AMC 10 scores or kids taking Calculus in 8th or 9th grade ought to be guaranteed admissions. I think that if a child is taking precalc in 8th, has straight As throughout, and has qualified for AIME a couple times, that kid is the real deal. Kids like this should undoubtedly be accepted to TJ. I would not be surprised if the majority of kids that FCPS has accelerated to Algebra in 5th or earlier would fit this profile.

How would they know about it, since JMO qualifier is well after applications are in.

JMO qualifiers may not be known before applications are due, but the status is known well before TJ decisions are made. Even if the kid didn't state their status on the application, because they wouldn't have known at the time, it would be entirely possible for TJ admissions to take note of the 1 or 2 FCPS 8th graders who made JMO, and then take that into consideration when evaluating applications. The same is the case for Mathcounts. By the end of March, the top kids in the state are known. Someone could audit the TJ applications and make note of the kids who finish in the top 10 in the state.

Also, every JMO qualifier is going to have a very high AMC 10 score. These scores are known before the applications are due. When only 15 8th graders in VA are qualifying for AIME, and the bulk of those are within 10 points of the cutoff, the kids who are > 25 points above the cutoff should stand out.

How do you know that those things were NOT taken into consideration, and that those same students weren’t found wanting in other areas?

You don’t. Plain and simple.

What we all do know is that no points are awarded for being in Calc rather than Algebra I and having As throughout. No points are awarded for extraordinary STEM achievements. Very few points are awarded for kids with 4.0s vs. kids with 3.5s. Almost all of the points were based on essays about how the kid handles conflict, who the kid most admires, or other non merit based Portrait of a Graduate BS. The current process is not looking for exceptional STEM students, and it has no mechanism for identifying and rewarding them.

I also know of several very mediocre kids who were admitted at my AAP center. Had there been a comprehensive application or had pretty much anything of substance been considered, there's no way they would have been admitted.

There shouldn’t be points in the first place. There should be a comprehensive application that is evaluated with an eye towards putting together the class that is likely to create the best collaborative academic environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They aren't looking for advanced problem solvers either. Each of the last two years, an 8th grade JMO qualifier got rejected from TJ.

I'm not even specifically stating that kids with high AMC 10 scores or kids taking Calculus in 8th or 9th grade ought to be guaranteed admissions. I think that if a child is taking precalc in 8th, has straight As throughout, and has qualified for AIME a couple times, that kid is the real deal. Kids like this should undoubtedly be accepted to TJ. I would not be surprised if the majority of kids that FCPS has accelerated to Algebra in 5th or earlier would fit this profile.

How would they know about it, since JMO qualifier is well after applications are in.

JMO qualifiers may not be known before applications are due, but the status is known well before TJ decisions are made. Even if the kid didn't state their status on the application, because they wouldn't have known at the time, it would be entirely possible for TJ admissions to take note of the 1 or 2 FCPS 8th graders who made JMO, and then take that into consideration when evaluating applications. The same is the case for Mathcounts. By the end of March, the top kids in the state are known. Someone could audit the TJ applications and make note of the kids who finish in the top 10 in the state.

Also, every JMO qualifier is going to have a very high AMC 10 score. These scores are known before the applications are due. When only 15 8th graders in VA are qualifying for AIME, and the bulk of those are within 10 points of the cutoff, the kids who are > 25 points above the cutoff should stand out.

How do you know that those things were NOT taken into consideration, and that those same students weren’t found wanting in other areas?

You don’t. Plain and simple.

What we all do know is that no points are awarded for being in Calc rather than Algebra I and having As throughout. No points are awarded for extraordinary STEM achievements. Very few points are awarded for kids with 4.0s vs. kids with 3.5s. Almost all of the points were based on essays about how the kid handles conflict, who the kid most admires, or other non merit based Portrait of a Graduate BS. The current process is not looking for exceptional STEM students, and it has no mechanism for identifying and rewarding them.

I also know of several very mediocre kids who were admitted at my AAP center. Had there been a comprehensive application or had pretty much anything of substance been considered, there's no way they would have been admitted.

There shouldn’t be points in the first place. There should be a comprehensive application that is evaluated with an eye towards putting together the class that is likely to create the best collaborative academic environment.

We are in full agreement. Elite colleges take in a lot of information and then holistically review each candidate. TJ admissions takes in very little information, and then assigns points based on how well the kid brags about themselves or feeds them their portrait of a graduate BS points. If AIME and JMO qualifiers are legitimately filtered out through a comprehensive process, then fine. If they’re filtered out because they didn’t have a good enough answer about which famous person they most admire in an otherwise sparse process, that’s not fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They aren't looking for advanced problem solvers either. Each of the last two years, an 8th grade JMO qualifier got rejected from TJ.

I'm not even specifically stating that kids with high AMC 10 scores or kids taking Calculus in 8th or 9th grade ought to be guaranteed admissions. I think that if a child is taking precalc in 8th, has straight As throughout, and has qualified for AIME a couple times, that kid is the real deal. Kids like this should undoubtedly be accepted to TJ. I would not be surprised if the majority of kids that FCPS has accelerated to Algebra in 5th or earlier would fit this profile.

How would they know about it, since JMO qualifier is well after applications are in.

JMO qualifiers may not be known before applications are due, but the status is known well before TJ decisions are made. Even if the kid didn't state their status on the application, because they wouldn't have known at the time, it would be entirely possible for TJ admissions to take note of the 1 or 2 FCPS 8th graders who made JMO, and then take that into consideration when evaluating applications. The same is the case for Mathcounts. By the end of March, the top kids in the state are known. Someone could audit the TJ applications and make note of the kids who finish in the top 10 in the state.

Also, every JMO qualifier is going to have a very high AMC 10 score. These scores are known before the applications are due. When only 15 8th graders in VA are qualifying for AIME, and the bulk of those are within 10 points of the cutoff, the kids who are > 25 points above the cutoff should stand out.

How do you know that those things were NOT taken into consideration, and that those same students weren’t found wanting in other areas?

You don’t. Plain and simple.

What we all do know is that no points are awarded for being in Calc rather than Algebra I and having As throughout. No points are awarded for extraordinary STEM achievements. Very few points are awarded for kids with 4.0s vs. kids with 3.5s. Almost all of the points were based on essays about how the kid handles conflict, who the kid most admires, or other non merit based Portrait of a Graduate BS. The current process is not looking for exceptional STEM students, and it has no mechanism for identifying and rewarding them.

I also know of several very mediocre kids who were admitted at my AAP center. Had there been a comprehensive application or had pretty much anything of substance been considered, there's no way they would have been admitted.

There shouldn’t be points in the first place. There should be a comprehensive application that is evaluated with an eye towards putting together the class that is likely to create the best collaborative academic environment.

We are in full agreement. Elite colleges take in a lot of information and then holistically review each candidate. TJ admissions takes in very little information, and then assigns points based on how well the kid brags about themselves or feeds them their portrait of a graduate BS points. If AIME and JMO qualifiers are legitimately filtered out through a comprehensive process, then fine. If they’re filtered out because they didn’t have a good enough answer about which famous person they most admire in an otherwise sparse process, that’s not fine.

Theoretically, the surest way to water down a school is to slowly and systematically strip away all rigor from the process: For example just take away tests, take away recommendations, add subjectivity and feelings to any written essays, pose more essays as 'math problem solving', relax gpa and math/science class requirements, and you'll pretty much guarantee that the admission runs like a well oiled lottery, obfuscating any kind of comparison of candidate across meaningful metrics. Now with regards to TJ... oh wait....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They aren't looking for advanced problem solvers either. Each of the last two years, an 8th grade JMO qualifier got rejected from TJ.

I'm not even specifically stating that kids with high AMC 10 scores or kids taking Calculus in 8th or 9th grade ought to be guaranteed admissions. I think that if a child is taking precalc in 8th, has straight As throughout, and has qualified for AIME a couple times, that kid is the real deal. Kids like this should undoubtedly be accepted to TJ. I would not be surprised if the majority of kids that FCPS has accelerated to Algebra in 5th or earlier would fit this profile.

How would they know about it, since JMO qualifier is well after applications are in.

JMO qualifiers may not be known before applications are due, but the status is known well before TJ decisions are made. Even if the kid didn't state their status on the application, because they wouldn't have known at the time, it would be entirely possible for TJ admissions to take note of the 1 or 2 FCPS 8th graders who made JMO, and then take that into consideration when evaluating applications. The same is the case for Mathcounts. By the end of March, the top kids in the state are known. Someone could audit the TJ applications and make note of the kids who finish in the top 10 in the state.

Also, every JMO qualifier is going to have a very high AMC 10 score. These scores are known before the applications are due. When only 15 8th graders in VA are qualifying for AIME, and the bulk of those are within 10 points of the cutoff, the kids who are > 25 points above the cutoff should stand out.

How do you know that those things were NOT taken into consideration, and that those same students weren’t found wanting in other areas?

You don’t. Plain and simple.

What we all do know is that no points are awarded for being in Calc rather than Algebra I and having As throughout. No points are awarded for extraordinary STEM achievements. Very few points are awarded for kids with 4.0s vs. kids with 3.5s. Almost all of the points were based on essays about how the kid handles conflict, who the kid most admires, or other non merit based Portrait of a Graduate BS. The current process is not looking for exceptional STEM students, and it has no mechanism for identifying and rewarding them.

I also know of several very mediocre kids who were admitted at my AAP center. Had there been a comprehensive application or had pretty much anything of substance been considered, there's no way they would have been admitted.

There shouldn’t be points in the first place. There should be a comprehensive application that is evaluated with an eye towards putting together the class that is likely to create the best collaborative academic environment.

We are in full agreement. Elite colleges take in a lot of information and then holistically review each candidate. TJ admissions takes in very little information, and then assigns points based on how well the kid brags about themselves or feeds them their portrait of a graduate BS points. If AIME and JMO qualifiers are legitimately filtered out through a comprehensive process, then fine. If they’re filtered out because they didn’t have a good enough answer about which famous person they most admire in an otherwise sparse process, that’s not fine.

PP. I’m the most pro-reform person on this board and I’m glad we are able to find common ground

What I am hoping is that the new process increases interest among historically excluded communities, and thus as the process begins to hopefully add more relevant information and metrics, those students are still captured and represented. TJ has suffered from a horrible chicken and egg problem for far too long where the most talented Black and Hispanic students either transfer out, reject their offer of admission, or don’t apply in the first place because they knew they would be largely alone in the environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They aren't looking for advanced problem solvers either. Each of the last two years, an 8th grade JMO qualifier got rejected from TJ.

I'm not even specifically stating that kids with high AMC 10 scores or kids taking Calculus in 8th or 9th grade ought to be guaranteed admissions. I think that if a child is taking precalc in 8th, has straight As throughout, and has qualified for AIME a couple times, that kid is the real deal. Kids like this should undoubtedly be accepted to TJ. I would not be surprised if the majority of kids that FCPS has accelerated to Algebra in 5th or earlier would fit this profile.

How would they know about it, since JMO qualifier is well after applications are in.

JMO qualifiers may not be known before applications are due, but the status is known well before TJ decisions are made. Even if the kid didn't state their status on the application, because they wouldn't have known at the time, it would be entirely possible for TJ admissions to take note of the 1 or 2 FCPS 8th graders who made JMO, and then take that into consideration when evaluating applications. The same is the case for Mathcounts. By the end of March, the top kids in the state are known. Someone could audit the TJ applications and make note of the kids who finish in the top 10 in the state.

Also, every JMO qualifier is going to have a very high AMC 10 score. These scores are known before the applications are due. When only 15 8th graders in VA are qualifying for AIME, and the bulk of those are within 10 points of the cutoff, the kids who are > 25 points above the cutoff should stand out.

How do you know that those things were NOT taken into consideration, and that those same students weren’t found wanting in other areas?

You don’t. Plain and simple.

What we all do know is that no points are awarded for being in Calc rather than Algebra I and having As throughout. No points are awarded for extraordinary STEM achievements. Very few points are awarded for kids with 4.0s vs. kids with 3.5s. Almost all of the points were based on essays about how the kid handles conflict, who the kid most admires, or other non merit based Portrait of a Graduate BS. The current process is not looking for exceptional STEM students, and it has no mechanism for identifying and rewarding them.

I also know of several very mediocre kids who were admitted at my AAP center. Had there been a comprehensive application or had pretty much anything of substance been considered, there's no way they would have been admitted.

There shouldn’t be points in the first place. There should be a comprehensive application that is evaluated with an eye towards putting together the class that is likely to create the best collaborative academic environment.

We are in full agreement. Elite colleges take in a lot of information and then holistically review each candidate. TJ admissions takes in very little information, and then assigns points based on how well the kid brags about themselves or feeds them their portrait of a graduate BS points. If AIME and JMO qualifiers are legitimately filtered out through a comprehensive process, then fine. If they’re filtered out because they didn’t have a good enough answer about which famous person they most admire in an otherwise sparse process, that’s not fine.

PP. I’m the most pro-reform person on this board and I’m glad we are able to find common ground

What I am hoping is that the new process increases interest among historically excluded communities, and thus as the process begins to hopefully add more relevant information and metrics, those students are still captured and represented. TJ has suffered from a horrible chicken and egg problem for far too long where the most talented Black and Hispanic students either transfer out, reject their offer of admission, or don’t apply in the first place because they knew they would be largely alone in the environment.

There are very few black and hispanic students who can handle TJ full stop plain and simple. Watering down the standards helps no one. In fact all it has done is given more ammo to folks saying URM don't belong there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They aren't looking for advanced problem solvers either. Each of the last two years, an 8th grade JMO qualifier got rejected from TJ.

I'm not even specifically stating that kids with high AMC 10 scores or kids taking Calculus in 8th or 9th grade ought to be guaranteed admissions. I think that if a child is taking precalc in 8th, has straight As throughout, and has qualified for AIME a couple times, that kid is the real deal. Kids like this should undoubtedly be accepted to TJ. I would not be surprised if the majority of kids that FCPS has accelerated to Algebra in 5th or earlier would fit this profile.

How would they know about it, since JMO qualifier is well after applications are in.

JMO qualifiers may not be known before applications are due, but the status is known well before TJ decisions are made. Even if the kid didn't state their status on the application, because they wouldn't have known at the time, it would be entirely possible for TJ admissions to take note of the 1 or 2 FCPS 8th graders who made JMO, and then take that into consideration when evaluating applications. The same is the case for Mathcounts. By the end of March, the top kids in the state are known. Someone could audit the TJ applications and make note of the kids who finish in the top 10 in the state.

Also, every JMO qualifier is going to have a very high AMC 10 score. These scores are known before the applications are due. When only 15 8th graders in VA are qualifying for AIME, and the bulk of those are within 10 points of the cutoff, the kids who are > 25 points above the cutoff should stand out.

How do you know that those things were NOT taken into consideration, and that those same students weren’t found wanting in other areas?

You don’t. Plain and simple.

What we all do know is that no points are awarded for being in Calc rather than Algebra I and having As throughout. No points are awarded for extraordinary STEM achievements. Very few points are awarded for kids with 4.0s vs. kids with 3.5s. Almost all of the points were based on essays about how the kid handles conflict, who the kid most admires, or other non merit based Portrait of a Graduate BS. The current process is not looking for exceptional STEM students, and it has no mechanism for identifying and rewarding them.

I also know of several very mediocre kids who were admitted at my AAP center. Had there been a comprehensive application or had pretty much anything of substance been considered, there's no way they would have been admitted.

There shouldn’t be points in the first place. There should be a comprehensive application that is evaluated with an eye towards putting together the class that is likely to create the best collaborative academic environment.

We are in full agreement. Elite colleges take in a lot of information and then holistically review each candidate. TJ admissions takes in very little information, and then assigns points based on how well the kid brags about themselves or feeds them their portrait of a graduate BS points. If AIME and JMO qualifiers are legitimately filtered out through a comprehensive process, then fine. If they’re filtered out because they didn’t have a good enough answer about which famous person they most admire in an otherwise sparse process, that’s not fine.

Theoretically, the surest way to water down a school is to slowly and systematically strip away all rigor from the process: For example just take away tests, take away recommendations, add subjectivity and feelings to any written essays, pose more essays as 'math problem solving', relax gpa and math/science class requirements, and you'll pretty much guarantee that the admission runs like a well oiled lottery, obfuscating any kind of comparison of candidate across meaningful metrics. Now with regards to TJ... oh wait....

That's why I'm glad they were placed the third tier prep kids with the more naturally gifted applicants from less affluent schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They aren't looking for advanced problem solvers either. Each of the last two years, an 8th grade JMO qualifier got rejected from TJ.

I'm not even specifically stating that kids with high AMC 10 scores or kids taking Calculus in 8th or 9th grade ought to be guaranteed admissions. I think that if a child is taking precalc in 8th, has straight As throughout, and has qualified for AIME a couple times, that kid is the real deal. Kids like this should undoubtedly be accepted to TJ. I would not be surprised if the majority of kids that FCPS has accelerated to Algebra in 5th or earlier would fit this profile.

How would they know about it, since JMO qualifier is well after applications are in.

JMO qualifiers may not be known before applications are due, but the status is known well before TJ decisions are made. Even if the kid didn't state their status on the application, because they wouldn't have known at the time, it would be entirely possible for TJ admissions to take note of the 1 or 2 FCPS 8th graders who made JMO, and then take that into consideration when evaluating applications. The same is the case for Mathcounts. By the end of March, the top kids in the state are known. Someone could audit the TJ applications and make note of the kids who finish in the top 10 in the state.

Also, every JMO qualifier is going to have a very high AMC 10 score. These scores are known before the applications are due. When only 15 8th graders in VA are qualifying for AIME, and the bulk of those are within 10 points of the cutoff, the kids who are > 25 points above the cutoff should stand out.

How do you know that those things were NOT taken into consideration, and that those same students weren’t found wanting in other areas?

You don’t. Plain and simple.

What we all do know is that no points are awarded for being in Calc rather than Algebra I and having As throughout. No points are awarded for extraordinary STEM achievements. Very few points are awarded for kids with 4.0s vs. kids with 3.5s. Almost all of the points were based on essays about how the kid handles conflict, who the kid most admires, or other non merit based Portrait of a Graduate BS. The current process is not looking for exceptional STEM students, and it has no mechanism for identifying and rewarding them.

I also know of several very mediocre kids who were admitted at my AAP center. Had there been a comprehensive application or had pretty much anything of substance been considered, there's no way they would have been admitted.

There shouldn’t be points in the first place. There should be a comprehensive application that is evaluated with an eye towards putting together the class that is likely to create the best collaborative academic environment.

We are in full agreement. Elite colleges take in a lot of information and then holistically review each candidate. TJ admissions takes in very little information, and then assigns points based on how well the kid brags about themselves or feeds them their portrait of a graduate BS points. If AIME and JMO qualifiers are legitimately filtered out through a comprehensive process, then fine. If they’re filtered out because they didn’t have a good enough answer about which famous person they most admire in an otherwise sparse process, that’s not fine.

PP. I’m the most pro-reform person on this board and I’m glad we are able to find common ground

What I am hoping is that the new process increases interest among historically excluded communities, and thus as the process begins to hopefully add more relevant information and metrics, those students are still captured and represented. TJ has suffered from a horrible chicken and egg problem for far too long where the most talented Black and Hispanic students either transfer out, reject their offer of admission, or don’t apply in the first place because they knew they would be largely alone in the environment.

There are very few black and hispanic students who can handle TJ full stop plain and simple. Watering down the standards helps no one. In fact all it has done is given more ammo to folks saying URM don't belong there.

This is absolutely false.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They aren't looking for advanced problem solvers either. Each of the last two years, an 8th grade JMO qualifier got rejected from TJ.

I'm not even specifically stating that kids with high AMC 10 scores or kids taking Calculus in 8th or 9th grade ought to be guaranteed admissions. I think that if a child is taking precalc in 8th, has straight As throughout, and has qualified for AIME a couple times, that kid is the real deal. Kids like this should undoubtedly be accepted to TJ. I would not be surprised if the majority of kids that FCPS has accelerated to Algebra in 5th or earlier would fit this profile.

How would they know about it, since JMO qualifier is well after applications are in.

JMO qualifiers may not be known before applications are due, but the status is known well before TJ decisions are made. Even if the kid didn't state their status on the application, because they wouldn't have known at the time, it would be entirely possible for TJ admissions to take note of the 1 or 2 FCPS 8th graders who made JMO, and then take that into consideration when evaluating applications. The same is the case for Mathcounts. By the end of March, the top kids in the state are known. Someone could audit the TJ applications and make note of the kids who finish in the top 10 in the state.

Also, every JMO qualifier is going to have a very high AMC 10 score. These scores are known before the applications are due. When only 15 8th graders in VA are qualifying for AIME, and the bulk of those are within 10 points of the cutoff, the kids who are > 25 points above the cutoff should stand out.

How do you know that those things were NOT taken into consideration, and that those same students weren’t found wanting in other areas?

You don’t. Plain and simple.

What we all do know is that no points are awarded for being in Calc rather than Algebra I and having As throughout. No points are awarded for extraordinary STEM achievements. Very few points are awarded for kids with 4.0s vs. kids with 3.5s. Almost all of the points were based on essays about how the kid handles conflict, who the kid most admires, or other non merit based Portrait of a Graduate BS. The current process is not looking for exceptional STEM students, and it has no mechanism for identifying and rewarding them.

I also know of several very mediocre kids who were admitted at my AAP center. Had there been a comprehensive application or had pretty much anything of substance been considered, there's no way they would have been admitted.

There shouldn’t be points in the first place. There should be a comprehensive application that is evaluated with an eye towards putting together the class that is likely to create the best collaborative academic environment.

We are in full agreement. Elite colleges take in a lot of information and then holistically review each candidate. TJ admissions takes in very little information, and then assigns points based on how well the kid brags about themselves or feeds them their portrait of a graduate BS points. If AIME and JMO qualifiers are legitimately filtered out through a comprehensive process, then fine. If they’re filtered out because they didn’t have a good enough answer about which famous person they most admire in an otherwise sparse process, that’s not fine.

PP. I’m the most pro-reform person on this board and I’m glad we are able to find common ground

What I am hoping is that the new process increases interest among historically excluded communities, and thus as the process begins to hopefully add more relevant information and metrics, those students are still captured and represented. TJ has suffered from a horrible chicken and egg problem for far too long where the most talented Black and Hispanic students either transfer out, reject their offer of admission, or don’t apply in the first place because they knew they would be largely alone in the environment.

There are very few black and hispanic students who can handle TJ full stop plain and simple. Watering down the standards helps no one. In fact all it has done is given more ammo to folks saying URM don't belong there.

This is absolutely false.

+1

So racist.

We did this analysis already. Even the qualified black students were admitted at a lower rate than everyone else. The old process was broken and unacceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They aren't looking for advanced problem solvers either. Each of the last two years, an 8th grade JMO qualifier got rejected from TJ.

I'm not even specifically stating that kids with high AMC 10 scores or kids taking Calculus in 8th or 9th grade ought to be guaranteed admissions. I think that if a child is taking precalc in 8th, has straight As throughout, and has qualified for AIME a couple times, that kid is the real deal. Kids like this should undoubtedly be accepted to TJ. I would not be surprised if the majority of kids that FCPS has accelerated to Algebra in 5th or earlier would fit this profile.

How would they know about it, since JMO qualifier is well after applications are in.

JMO qualifiers may not be known before applications are due, but the status is known well before TJ decisions are made. Even if the kid didn't state their status on the application, because they wouldn't have known at the time, it would be entirely possible for TJ admissions to take note of the 1 or 2 FCPS 8th graders who made JMO, and then take that into consideration when evaluating applications. The same is the case for Mathcounts. By the end of March, the top kids in the state are known. Someone could audit the TJ applications and make note of the kids who finish in the top 10 in the state.

Also, every JMO qualifier is going to have a very high AMC 10 score. These scores are known before the applications are due. When only 15 8th graders in VA are qualifying for AIME, and the bulk of those are within 10 points of the cutoff, the kids who are > 25 points above the cutoff should stand out.

How do you know that those things were NOT taken into consideration, and that those same students weren’t found wanting in other areas?

You don’t. Plain and simple.

What we all do know is that no points are awarded for being in Calc rather than Algebra I and having As throughout. No points are awarded for extraordinary STEM achievements. Very few points are awarded for kids with 4.0s vs. kids with 3.5s. Almost all of the points were based on essays about how the kid handles conflict, who the kid most admires, or other non merit based Portrait of a Graduate BS. The current process is not looking for exceptional STEM students, and it has no mechanism for identifying and rewarding them.

I also know of several very mediocre kids who were admitted at my AAP center. Had there been a comprehensive application or had pretty much anything of substance been considered, there's no way they would have been admitted.

There shouldn’t be points in the first place. There should be a comprehensive application that is evaluated with an eye towards putting together the class that is likely to create the best collaborative academic environment.

We are in full agreement. Elite colleges take in a lot of information and then holistically review each candidate. TJ admissions takes in very little information, and then assigns points based on how well the kid brags about themselves or feeds them their portrait of a graduate BS points. If AIME and JMO qualifiers are legitimately filtered out through a comprehensive process, then fine. If they’re filtered out because they didn’t have a good enough answer about which famous person they most admire in an otherwise sparse process, that’s not fine.

PP. I’m the most pro-reform person on this board and I’m glad we are able to find common ground

What I am hoping is that the new process increases interest among historically excluded communities, and thus as the process begins to hopefully add more relevant information and metrics, those students are still captured and represented. TJ has suffered from a horrible chicken and egg problem for far too long where the most talented Black and Hispanic students either transfer out, reject their offer of admission, or don’t apply in the first place because they knew they would be largely alone in the environment.

There are very few black and hispanic students who can handle TJ full stop plain and simple. Watering down the standards helps no one. In fact all it has done is given more ammo to folks saying URM don't belong there.

This is absolutely false.

+1

So racist.

We did this analysis already. Even the qualified black students were admitted at a lower rate than everyone else. The old process was broken and unacceptable.

TJ has been bending over backwards to recruit black applicants even hiring a recruitment specialist to go out and visit middle schools to recruit black applicants in the past not to mention funding various programs to recruit black applicants such as Young Scholars etc. for many many years. There simply ain't enough black applicants who are interested ;et alone qualified.

You will have better luck recruiting Asians from MIT and CalTech to play in the NBA and NFL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
They aren't looking for advanced problem solvers either. Each of the last two years, an 8th grade JMO qualifier got rejected from TJ.

I'm not even specifically stating that kids with high AMC 10 scores or kids taking Calculus in 8th or 9th grade ought to be guaranteed admissions. I think that if a child is taking precalc in 8th, has straight As throughout, and has qualified for AIME a couple times, that kid is the real deal. Kids like this should undoubtedly be accepted to TJ. I would not be surprised if the majority of kids that FCPS has accelerated to Algebra in 5th or earlier would fit this profile.

How would they know about it, since JMO qualifier is well after applications are in.

JMO qualifiers may not be known before applications are due, but the status is known well before TJ decisions are made. Even if the kid didn't state their status on the application, because they wouldn't have known at the time, it would be entirely possible for TJ admissions to take note of the 1 or 2 FCPS 8th graders who made JMO, and then take that into consideration when evaluating applications. The same is the case for Mathcounts. By the end of March, the top kids in the state are known. Someone could audit the TJ applications and make note of the kids who finish in the top 10 in the state.

Also, every JMO qualifier is going to have a very high AMC 10 score. These scores are known before the applications are due. When only 15 8th graders in VA are qualifying for AIME, and the bulk of those are within 10 points of the cutoff, the kids who are > 25 points above the cutoff should stand out.

How do you know that those things were NOT taken into consideration, and that those same students weren’t found wanting in other areas?

You don’t. Plain and simple.

What we all do know is that no points are awarded for being in Calc rather than Algebra I and having As throughout. No points are awarded for extraordinary STEM achievements. Very few points are awarded for kids with 4.0s vs. kids with 3.5s. Almost all of the points were based on essays about how the kid handles conflict, who the kid most admires, or other non merit based Portrait of a Graduate BS. The current process is not looking for exceptional STEM students, and it has no mechanism for identifying and rewarding them.

I also know of several very mediocre kids who were admitted at my AAP center. Had there been a comprehensive application or had pretty much anything of substance been considered, there's no way they would have been admitted.

There shouldn’t be points in the first place. There should be a comprehensive application that is evaluated with an eye towards putting together the class that is likely to create the best collaborative academic environment.

We are in full agreement. Elite colleges take in a lot of information and then holistically review each candidate. TJ admissions takes in very little information, and then assigns points based on how well the kid brags about themselves or feeds them their portrait of a graduate BS points. If AIME and JMO qualifiers are legitimately filtered out through a comprehensive process, then fine. If they’re filtered out because they didn’t have a good enough answer about which famous person they most admire in an otherwise sparse process, that’s not fine.

PP. I’m the most pro-reform person on this board and I’m glad we are able to find common ground

What I am hoping is that the new process increases interest among historically excluded communities, and thus as the process begins to hopefully add more relevant information and metrics, those students are still captured and represented. TJ has suffered from a horrible chicken and egg problem for far too long where the most talented Black and Hispanic students either transfer out, reject their offer of admission, or don’t apply in the first place because they knew they would be largely alone in the environment.

There are very few black and hispanic students who can handle TJ full stop plain and simple. Watering down the standards helps no one. In fact all it has done is given more ammo to folks saying URM don't belong there.

This is absolutely false.

+1

So racist.

We did this analysis already. Even the qualified black students were admitted at a lower rate than everyone else. The old process was broken and unacceptable.

TJ has been bending over backwards to recruit black applicants even hiring a recruitment specialist to go out and visit middle schools to recruit black applicants in the past not to mention funding various programs to recruit black applicants such as Young Scholars etc. for many many years. There simply ain't enough black applicants who are interested ;et alone qualified.

You will have better luck recruiting Asians from MIT and CalTech to play in the NBA and NFL.

Not really; the problem is the racist attitude of many at TJ. That any black or Hispanic student is only there because of affirmative action. If TJ were a workplace, it would be a clear hostile workplace lawsuit waiting to happen. There is a clear racist attitude among Asra's crowd that is hostile and toxic to URMs. This needs to be addressed first and foremost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Not really; the problem is the racist attitude of many at TJ. That any black or Hispanic student is only there because of affirmative action.

Having affirmative action to admit more blacks and Hispanics would tend to reinforce that assumption.