That Brock Allen Turner is a dirtbag

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

I think it's been posted 70x because some loon kept posting some crap about helping rapists rape.

You mean the person who was pointing out those posters who insist on identifying all the reasons why Emily Doe brought this on herself and what she should've done differently, as opposed to looking at why the guy felt so entitled and how we change that mentality to stop these crimes?

That's a good point. Look back at this thread, and compare the number of posts talking about what the victim did wrong and how the victim (and other women) can "avoid rape" in the future to the number of posts trying to figure out what got the rapist to this place and how he can avoid THAT in the future?

Well I'm not a rapist and I don't know what motivates them so I'm a little lost there. Suggestions?

I do feel personally responsible for myself and my daughters though so for my little family I'll focus on personal safety and looking out for others. That's just an easier/more relevant conversation for me.

Suggestions? Sure. How about, you have no right to touch another person without their consent. Yes means yes. Know right versus wrong, etc., etc., etc. It doesn't start or stop with personal safety. We need to teach people to respect other people. If some dude is horny, he needs to keep it in his pants unless the other consenting party has said YES...and even simpler, is conscious.

Brock's Dad must have had your mentality, which is why he failed to teach his son that rape isn't right.

And how about, women are not puzzles to solve so you can score. Women are human beings, and sex is not the end goal of an obstacle course.

So who are these boys I can teach and how do I do this given that I'm not their parent/teacher?

You're being facetious here, but regardless: teach your girls to expect and demand that they will be treated as human beings. Teach them to speak up when they see women and girls being belittled.

What about also teaching your girls what to do if they meet up with a Brock Allen, Jessie Matthew, or Joran van der Sloop? How can they speak up for themselves and defend themselves in a similar situation? Many of us think they have a better chance of doing that if they're not drinking heavily.

I assume you're sending them for martial arts training as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

How is that irrelevant? If the hook up culture has guys having sex with a bunch of wasted girls that black out and can't remember a thing and tell him what a great time they had and they come back for more... how is that not relevant to the problem on college campuses. How is a guy to know when a girl is going to say, they didn't consent, when the same situation happened 20 times before and it was consent?

I'm pretty an unconscious woman is not able to consent to being fucked behind a dumpster.

She is able to consent she was just unable to take it back once she passed out.

That's not what happened, but if we assume your facts for the sake of argument, you're missing a key point: when your partner passes out, you have to stop fucking her. Play time is over.

Legally, you stop when you are aware they can no longer consent or when you are canard they have passed out... 1am, dark, wasted... Was she unconsciense for 1 second, 1 minute, 20 minutes.... .? Does anybody know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe she did consent and was too drunk to remember. Maybe she hadn't passed out until they were in the middle of the act.

When your partner passes out, play time is over. Don't fuck unconscious people.

It's not hard. It's a very black letter rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guaranteed that once he leaves jail, sooner or later someone is going to beat the crap out of him. GOOD!!! Forget about violence doesn't solve anything or don't you lower yourself to their level. He needs to be taught a lesson big time.

What about the drunk antelope? When is she going to learn a lesson? Woke up in the hospital, felt embarrassed and decided to ruin his future. His name is smeared all over the media and she is remaining anonymous.

His name is smeared all over the media because he committed, was arrested for, and found guilty of several felonies.

His name was published before he was convicted.

Of course. You may note above that I mentioned he was ARRESTED. Arrest records are public.

[Anonymous]

Some people are defending the rapist? Seriously?

[Anonymous]

Does anybody have a link to the police report?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

I think it's been posted 70x because some loon kept posting some crap about helping rapists rape.

You mean the person who was pointing out those posters who insist on identifying all the reasons why Emily Doe brought this on herself and what she should've done differently, as opposed to looking at why the guy felt so entitled and how we change that mentality to stop these crimes?

That's a good point. Look back at this thread, and compare the number of posts talking about what the victim did wrong and how the victim (and other women) can "avoid rape" in the future to the number of posts trying to figure out what got the rapist to this place and how he can avoid THAT in the future?

Well I'm not a rapist and I don't know what motivates them so I'm a little lost there. Suggestions?

I do feel personally responsible for myself and my daughters though so for my little family I'll focus on personal safety and looking out for others. That's just an easier/more relevant conversation for me.

Suggestions? Sure. How about, you have no right to touch another person without their consent. Yes means yes. Know right versus wrong, etc., etc., etc. It doesn't start or stop with personal safety. We need to teach people to respect other people. If some dude is horny, he needs to keep it in his pants unless the other consenting party has said YES...and even simpler, is conscious.

Brock's Dad must have had your mentality, which is why he failed to teach his son that rape isn't right.

And how about, women are not puzzles to solve so you can score. Women are human beings, and sex is not the end goal of an obstacle course.

So who are these boys I can teach and how do I do this given that I'm not their parent/teacher?

You're being facetious here, but regardless: teach your girls to expect and demand that they will be treated as human beings. Teach them to speak up when they see women and girls being belittled.

What about also teaching your girls what to do if they meet up with a Brock Allen, Jessie Matthew, or Joran van der Sloop? How can they speak up for themselves and defend themselves in a similar situation? Many of us think they have a better chance of doing that if they're not drinking heavily.

I assume you're sending them for martial arts training as well.

Not necessarily martial arts training, although nothing wrong with it. Trying to be physically, mentally, and emotionally strong? You bet!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe she did consent and was too drunk to remember. Maybe she hadn't passed out until they were in the middle of the act.

When your partner passes out, play time is over. Don't fuck unconscious people.

It's not hard. It's a very black letter rule.

How many times have you been in that situation? How long did it take you to realize your partner was passed out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

I think it's been posted 70x because some loon kept posting some crap about helping rapists rape.

You mean the person who was pointing out those posters who insist on identifying all the reasons why Emily Doe brought this on herself and what she should've done differently, as opposed to looking at why the guy felt so entitled and how we change that mentality to stop these crimes?

That's a good point. Look back at this thread, and compare the number of posts talking about what the victim did wrong and how the victim (and other women) can "avoid rape" in the future to the number of posts trying to figure out what got the rapist to this place and how he can avoid THAT in the future?

Well I'm not a rapist and I don't know what motivates them so I'm a little lost there. Suggestions?

I do feel personally responsible for myself and my daughters though so for my little family I'll focus on personal safety and looking out for others. That's just an easier/more relevant conversation for me.

Suggestions? Sure. How about, you have no right to touch another person without their consent. Yes means yes. Know right versus wrong, etc., etc., etc. It doesn't start or stop with personal safety. We need to teach people to respect other people. If some dude is horny, he needs to keep it in his pants unless the other consenting party has said YES...and even simpler, is conscious.

Brock's Dad must have had your mentality, which is why he failed to teach his son that rape isn't right.

And how about, women are not puzzles to solve so you can score. Women are human beings, and sex is not the end goal of an obstacle course.

So who are these boys I can teach and how do I do this given that I'm not their parent/teacher?

You're being facetious here, but regardless: teach your girls to expect and demand that they will be treated as human beings. Teach them to speak up when they see women and girls being belittled.

What about also teaching your girls what to do if they meet up with a Brock Allen, Jessie Matthew, or Joran van der Sloop? How can they speak up for themselves and defend themselves in a similar situation? Many of us think they have a better chance of doing that if they're not drinking heavily.

I assume you're sending them for martial arts training as well.

Not necessarily martial arts training, although nothing wrong with it. Trying to be physically, mentally, and emotionally strong? You bet!

Sounds good to me too!

[Anonymous]

Two relevant SLATE items: rape-drinking connection and Brock Allen Turner

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/10/sexual_assault_and_drinking_teach_women_the_connection.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe she did consent and was too drunk to remember. Maybe she hadn't passed out until they were in the middle of the act.

When your partner passes out, play time is over. Don't fuck unconscious people.

It's not hard. It's a very black letter rule.

How many times have you been in that situation? How long did it take you to realize your partner was passed out?

Definitely BEFORE two passing bicyclists had to tackle my ass

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guaranteed that once he leaves jail, sooner or later someone is going to beat the crap out of him. GOOD!!! Forget about violence doesn't solve anything or don't you lower yourself to their level. He needs to be taught a lesson big time.

What about the drunk antelope? When is she going to learn a lesson? Woke up in the hospital, felt embarrassed and decided to ruin his future. His name is smeared all over the media and she is remaining anonymous.

Some of the comments have been eye opening. Just out of curiosity PP and other PPs who are defending Brock or assigning equal blame on the victim, are you male or female?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guaranteed that once he leaves jail, sooner or later someone is going to beat the crap out of him. GOOD!!! Forget about violence doesn't solve anything or don't you lower yourself to their level. He needs to be taught a lesson big time.

What about the drunk antelope? When is she going to learn a lesson? Woke up in the hospital, felt embarrassed and decided to ruin his future. His name is smeared all over the media and she is remaining anonymous.

Some of the comments have been eye opening. Just out of curiosity PP and other PPs who are defending Brock or assigning equal blame on the victim, are you male or female?

Who has assigned "equal blame" on both Brock and the victim? Which posts?

[Anonymous]

Speaking of the bicyclists....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/07/the-swedish-stanford-students-who-rescued-an-unconscious-sexual-assault-victim-speak-out/?tid=sm_fb

Swoon. Beautiful. Smart. Kind. Brave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guaranteed that once he leaves jail, sooner or later someone is going to beat the crap out of him. GOOD!!! Forget about violence doesn't solve anything or don't you lower yourself to their level. He needs to be taught a lesson big time.

What about the drunk antelope? When is she going to learn a lesson? Woke up in the hospital, felt embarrassed and decided to ruin his future. His name is smeared all over the media and she is remaining anonymous.

Some of the comments have been eye opening. Just out of curiosity PP and other PPs who are defending Brock or assigning equal blame on the victim, are you male or female?

Who has assigned "equal blame" on both Brock and the victim? Which posts?

Maybe not equal blame, but posts who mention that she (and women generally) played a role because of dress, intoxication, flirtation.... you get the picture.