TJ Discrimination Case

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not in the United States of America. Asians are like 6% of the population so that doesn’t add up. My daughter has 26 Asian students in a class of 31 but the whole state of Virginia is like 7%. SMH

FCPS is about 20% Asian students.

Then it's crazy to think there's discrimination when TJ is like 70% Asian.

Especially since selection is a race-blind process.

Many would prefer to believe in wacky conspiracies even if there's no evidence to support this

My favorite conspiracy theory - Asian kids bought the answers from Curie.

They didn’t buy the answers. They bought access to materials from a secured exam.

That’s not up for debate among serious people who know what is going on in Northern Virginia.

It was clear to everyone that this was going on. Not sure why some are trying to sweep it under the rug. Things had gotten so bad that the school board had to change the admission process since only wealthy applicants could afford to buy their way in.

Yes, it does seem odd they're trying to rewrite history to support this false narrative of a past that never was. Everyone who knows anything also was aware there was widespread cheating.

Agree under the new system the top kids are getting in not just those who require prep to give the appearance of gifted.

Test scores and the remedial math classes don't support your conclusion that "the top kids are getting in." I know the truth hurts, but just own it. Come out and say I don't care if the best and brightest are getting in, it's a county-wide school that needs to serve all of the taxpayers in the county so each middle school gets some seats and we aren't going to require a competitive math test to get in as we think a student body with ESL, URM, and low income students that may not fare as well on such a test is more important. Why is that so hard to come out and say that? FCPS pretty much said exactly this. Why can't the rest of us?

They actually do but some parents insist on spreading this false narrative. TJ is stronger than ever now that the playing field is level and they've put an end to cheaeting.

Discrimination against Asians does not make TJ stronger. And back up that cheating accusation with something. The county did not raise any alleged "cheating" in the lawsuit brought by Coalition for TJ. If there was any basis for the cheating narrative it would have come out. No such accusation has ever been made in a public forum.

DP. There was no need to bring it up from a legal perspective and would have just made the case muckier from an evidentiary standpoint.

Good points. The facts were already bad enough from FCPS's perspective than calling additional attention the facts would have made things that much worse for FCPS. They will only prevail if the appellate courts shut their eyes to the facts and pretend FCPS was starting from a blank slate when it adopted the new system.

LOL, you fancy yourself quite the legal eagle, don’t you.

It's hard to claim discrimination with a straight face when your 70% of a school.

The new racist admission policy illegally excluded qualified Asians and TJ is now about 56% Asians and it would be at least 85% Asians w/o the new form of illegal 'Chinese exclusion acts'.

Let’s make sure we don’t forget that the largest beneficiary group of the admissions changes were poor Asian students. By a WIDE margin.

Independent research has backed this up. 36 Asian students who were admitted received bonus points for economic disadvantage. That was the largest group of students admitted to receive any of the “experience factor” points. No other group received more than 15 in any area.

In the mean time, at least 360 qualified Asian applicants were excluded. Learn to do some basic math.

Qualified students are excluded from every application and test in school in the world every year. There aren't enough seats in the classroom for everyone you think is "qualified." That's life. Why is that so hard to understand? And isn't it wonderful that a great education can be obtained in many different places such that it actually doesn't matter which school you attend? Grow where you are planted. Any kid as bright at you say they are will be able to excel anywhere. This is also true of preschools and colleges.

The other notion I object to is qualified according to who? Certainly not the committee that made a selection. They picked the applicants who they believed were most qualified. Sure, some privileged kids may score higher than kids in a low-income school, but that doesn't mean they're more qualified or deserving. I'm more impressed with kids who are succeeding in spite of the obstacles they face than a few kids who had every possible advantage and still weren't able to rise to the top of their school.

DP - this is important. Many parents in this area believe that TJ admissions is ultimately a reward for the hard work of the family in optimizing their child's application - this is why on many Facebook posts within one specific community (more granular than just "Asians") you will see the parents congratulated rather than the child. It's kind of gross to watch, honestly.

More than anything, I see the admissions changes as an attempt to mitigate the influence of parents who are hyper-focused on TJ as an outcome - and when I see which parents are the ones yelling and screaming about their convoluted definition of "merit", it seems to me that it's working exactly according to plan.

If all goes well, hopefully we'll see parent behaviors start to change as over-advancement in math, a narrow focus on STEM extracurriculars at too-early ages, and standardized exam prep are disincentivized by the new process. Perhaps those families will indeed find somewhere else to take their kids, which would be a huge win across the board for the region.

My family is Korean-American and this poster is spot on. I’m tired of us getting lumped in to this broad “Asian” category when everyone knows what is actually happening under the surface. Families like mine have been in America for multiple generations (I grew up in Annandale) and this is the case for most of the East and Southeast Asian families that are in this area. We raise our children to understand the value of a great education just like our parents did for us, but we do not equate that with prestige or try to box anyone else out using our resources.

It sickens me when I see people like Nomani and Dutta and Jackson and Miller claiming to stand up for “Asians”. You don’t stand up for Asians - you stand up for a small group of well-resourced Asians who are conflating privilege with merit. And you’re evil and disgusting for claiming that you represent us. We deserve better than you.

Second-generation Chinese American and I agree 100%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.

You assume all the top students in each school apply to TJ. Not everyone is interested in that sideshow.

Maybe not all, but most did. The ones who were accepted were not the top of those who applied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.

That is incorrect only the top 1.5% of students are selected from each school.

The top according to their scoring, which unfortunately doesn't do a good job of identifying the top students.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not in the United States of America. Asians are like 6% of the population so that doesn’t add up. My daughter has 26 Asian students in a class of 31 but the whole state of Virginia is like 7%. SMH

FCPS is about 20% Asian students.

Then it's crazy to think there's discrimination when TJ is like 70% Asian.

Especially since selection is a race-blind process.

Many would prefer to believe in wacky conspiracies even if there's no evidence to support this

My favorite conspiracy theory - Asian kids bought the answers from Curie.

They didn’t buy the answers. They bought access to materials from a secured exam.

That’s not up for debate among serious people who know what is going on in Northern Virginia.

It was clear to everyone that this was going on. Not sure why some are trying to sweep it under the rug. Things had gotten so bad that the school board had to change the admission process since only wealthy applicants could afford to buy their way in.

Yes, it does seem odd they're trying to rewrite history to support this false narrative of a past that never was. Everyone who knows anything also was aware there was widespread cheating.

Agree under the new system the top kids are getting in not just those who require prep to give the appearance of gifted.

Test scores and the remedial math classes don't support your conclusion that "the top kids are getting in." I know the truth hurts, but just own it. Come out and say I don't care if the best and brightest are getting in, it's a county-wide school that needs to serve all of the taxpayers in the county so each middle school gets some seats and we aren't going to require a competitive math test to get in as we think a student body with ESL, URM, and low income students that may not fare as well on such a test is more important. Why is that so hard to come out and say that? FCPS pretty much said exactly this. Why can't the rest of us?

They actually do but some parents insist on spreading this false narrative. TJ is stronger than ever now that the playing field is level and they've put an end to cheaeting.

Discrimination against Asians does not make TJ stronger. And back up that cheating accusation with something. The county did not raise any alleged "cheating" in the lawsuit brought by Coalition for TJ. If there was any basis for the cheating narrative it would have come out. No such accusation has ever been made in a public forum.

DP. There was no need to bring it up from a legal perspective and would have just made the case muckier from an evidentiary standpoint.

Good points. The facts were already bad enough from FCPS's perspective than calling additional attention the facts would have made things that much worse for FCPS. They will only prevail if the appellate courts shut their eyes to the facts and pretend FCPS was starting from a blank slate when it adopted the new system.

LOL, you fancy yourself quite the legal eagle, don’t you.

It's hard to claim discrimination with a straight face when your 70% of a school.

The new racist admission policy illegally excluded qualified Asians and TJ is now about 56% Asians and it would be at least 85% Asians w/o the new form of illegal 'Chinese exclusion acts'.

Let’s make sure we don’t forget that the largest beneficiary group of the admissions changes were poor Asian students. By a WIDE margin.

Independent research has backed this up. 36 Asian students who were admitted received bonus points for economic disadvantage. That was the largest group of students admitted to receive any of the “experience factor” points. No other group received more than 15 in any area.

In the mean time, at least 360 qualified Asian applicants were excluded. Learn to do some basic math.

Qualified students are excluded from every application and test in school in the world every year. There aren't enough seats in the classroom for everyone you think is "qualified." That's life. Why is that so hard to understand? And isn't it wonderful that a great education can be obtained in many different places such that it actually doesn't matter which school you attend? Grow where you are planted. Any kid as bright at you say they are will be able to excel anywhere. This is also true of preschools and colleges.

The other notion I object to is qualified according to who? Certainly not the committee that made a selection. They picked the applicants who they believed were most qualified. Sure, some privileged kids may score higher than kids in a low-income school, but that doesn't mean they're more qualified or deserving. I'm more impressed with kids who are succeeding in spite of the obstacles they face than a few kids who had every possible advantage and still weren't able to rise to the top of their school.

DP - this is important. Many parents in this area believe that TJ admissions is ultimately a reward for the hard work of the family in optimizing their child's application - this is why on many Facebook posts within one specific community (more granular than just "Asians") you will see the parents congratulated rather than the child. It's kind of gross to watch, honestly.

More than anything, I see the admissions changes as an attempt to mitigate the influence of parents who are hyper-focused on TJ as an outcome - and when I see which parents are the ones yelling and screaming about their convoluted definition of "merit", it seems to me that it's working exactly according to plan.

If all goes well, hopefully we'll see parent behaviors start to change as over-advancement in math, a narrow focus on STEM extracurriculars at too-early ages, and standardized exam prep are disincentivized by the new process. Perhaps those families will indeed find somewhere else to take their kids, which would be a huge win across the board for the region.

My family is Korean-American and this poster is spot on. I’m tired of us getting lumped in to this broad “Asian” category when everyone knows what is actually happening under the surface. Families like mine have been in America for multiple generations (I grew up in Annandale) and this is the case for most of the East and Southeast Asian families that are in this area. We raise our children to understand the value of a great education just like our parents did for us, but we do not equate that with prestige or try to box anyone else out using our resources.

It sickens me when I see people like Nomani and Dutta and Jackson and Miller claiming to stand up for “Asians”. You don’t stand up for Asians - you stand up for a small group of well-resourced Asians who are conflating privilege with merit. And you’re evil and disgusting for claiming that you represent us. We deserve better than you.

The Korean parent I spoke to wasn't too happy to find out that their child's chance of admission went down 90% because of the reforms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not in the United States of America. Asians are like 6% of the population so that doesn’t add up. My daughter has 26 Asian students in a class of 31 but the whole state of Virginia is like 7%. SMH

FCPS is about 20% Asian students.

Then it's crazy to think there's discrimination when TJ is like 70% Asian.

Especially since selection is a race-blind process.

Many would prefer to believe in wacky conspiracies even if there's no evidence to support this

My favorite conspiracy theory - Asian kids bought the answers from Curie.

They didn’t buy the answers. They bought access to materials from a secured exam.

That’s not up for debate among serious people who know what is going on in Northern Virginia.

It was clear to everyone that this was going on. Not sure why some are trying to sweep it under the rug. Things had gotten so bad that the school board had to change the admission process since only wealthy applicants could afford to buy their way in.

Yes, it does seem odd they're trying to rewrite history to support this false narrative of a past that never was. Everyone who knows anything also was aware there was widespread cheating.

Agree under the new system the top kids are getting in not just those who require prep to give the appearance of gifted.

Test scores and the remedial math classes don't support your conclusion that "the top kids are getting in." I know the truth hurts, but just own it. Come out and say I don't care if the best and brightest are getting in, it's a county-wide school that needs to serve all of the taxpayers in the county so each middle school gets some seats and we aren't going to require a competitive math test to get in as we think a student body with ESL, URM, and low income students that may not fare as well on such a test is more important. Why is that so hard to come out and say that? FCPS pretty much said exactly this. Why can't the rest of us?

They actually do but some parents insist on spreading this false narrative. TJ is stronger than ever now that the playing field is level and they've put an end to cheaeting.

Discrimination against Asians does not make TJ stronger. And back up that cheating accusation with something. The county did not raise any alleged "cheating" in the lawsuit brought by Coalition for TJ. If there was any basis for the cheating narrative it would have come out. No such accusation has ever been made in a public forum.

DP. There was no need to bring it up from a legal perspective and would have just made the case muckier from an evidentiary standpoint.

Good points. The facts were already bad enough from FCPS's perspective than calling additional attention the facts would have made things that much worse for FCPS. They will only prevail if the appellate courts shut their eyes to the facts and pretend FCPS was starting from a blank slate when it adopted the new system.

LOL, you fancy yourself quite the legal eagle, don’t you.

It's hard to claim discrimination with a straight face when your 70% of a school.

The new racist admission policy illegally excluded qualified Asians and TJ is now about 56% Asians and it would be at least 85% Asians w/o the new form of illegal 'Chinese exclusion acts'.

Let’s make sure we don’t forget that the largest beneficiary group of the admissions changes were poor Asian students. By a WIDE margin.

Independent research has backed this up. 36 Asian students who were admitted received bonus points for economic disadvantage. That was the largest group of students admitted to receive any of the “experience factor” points. No other group received more than 15 in any area.

In the mean time, at least 360 qualified Asian applicants were excluded. Learn to do some basic math.

Qualified students are excluded from every application and test in school in the world every year. There aren't enough seats in the classroom for everyone you think is "qualified." That's life. Why is that so hard to understand? And isn't it wonderful that a great education can be obtained in many different places such that it actually doesn't matter which school you attend? Grow where you are planted. Any kid as bright at you say they are will be able to excel anywhere. This is also true of preschools and colleges.

The other notion I object to is qualified according to who? Certainly not the committee that made a selection. They picked the applicants who they believed were most qualified. Sure, some privileged kids may score higher than kids in a low-income school, but that doesn't mean they're more qualified or deserving. I'm more impressed with kids who are succeeding in spite of the obstacles they face than a few kids who had every possible advantage and still weren't able to rise to the top of their school.

DP - this is important. Many parents in this area believe that TJ admissions is ultimately a reward for the hard work of the family in optimizing their child's application - this is why on many Facebook posts within one specific community (more granular than just "Asians") you will see the parents congratulated rather than the child. It's kind of gross to watch, honestly.

More than anything, I see the admissions changes as an attempt to mitigate the influence of parents who are hyper-focused on TJ as an outcome - and when I see which parents are the ones yelling and screaming about their convoluted definition of "merit", it seems to me that it's working exactly according to plan.

If all goes well, hopefully we'll see parent behaviors start to change as over-advancement in math, a narrow focus on STEM extracurriculars at too-early ages, and standardized exam prep are disincentivized by the new process. Perhaps those families will indeed find somewhere else to take their kids, which would be a huge win across the board for the region.

My family is Korean-American and this poster is spot on. I’m tired of us getting lumped in to this broad “Asian” category when everyone knows what is actually happening under the surface. Families like mine have been in America for multiple generations (I grew up in Annandale) and this is the case for most of the East and Southeast Asian families that are in this area. We raise our children to understand the value of a great education just like our parents did for us, but we do not equate that with prestige or try to box anyone else out using our resources.

It sickens me when I see people like Nomani and Dutta and Jackson and Miller claiming to stand up for “Asians”. You don’t stand up for Asians - you stand up for a small group of well-resourced Asians who are conflating privilege with merit. And you’re evil and disgusting for claiming that you represent us. We deserve better than you.

The Korean parent I spoke to wasn't too happy to find out that their child's chance of admission went down 90% because of the reforms.

Well, you're in luck then since there is no broad Asian category. Admissions are race-blind and solely based on merit using local norms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.

That is incorrect only the top 1.5% of students are selected from each school.

The top according to their scoring, which unfortunately doesn't do a good job of identifying the top students.

It absolutely does identify the top students. The old system just identified those who could afford to buy the test. This is vastly better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not in the United States of America. Asians are like 6% of the population so that doesn’t add up. My daughter has 26 Asian students in a class of 31 but the whole state of Virginia is like 7%. SMH

FCPS is about 20% Asian students.

Then it's crazy to think there's discrimination when TJ is like 70% Asian.

Especially since selection is a race-blind process.

Many would prefer to believe in wacky conspiracies even if there's no evidence to support this

My favorite conspiracy theory - Asian kids bought the answers from Curie.

They didn’t buy the answers. They bought access to materials from a secured exam.

That’s not up for debate among serious people who know what is going on in Northern Virginia.

It was clear to everyone that this was going on. Not sure why some are trying to sweep it under the rug. Things had gotten so bad that the school board had to change the admission process since only wealthy applicants could afford to buy their way in.

Yes, it does seem odd they're trying to rewrite history to support this false narrative of a past that never was. Everyone who knows anything also was aware there was widespread cheating.

Agree under the new system the top kids are getting in not just those who require prep to give the appearance of gifted.

Test scores and the remedial math classes don't support your conclusion that "the top kids are getting in." I know the truth hurts, but just own it. Come out and say I don't care if the best and brightest are getting in, it's a county-wide school that needs to serve all of the taxpayers in the county so each middle school gets some seats and we aren't going to require a competitive math test to get in as we think a student body with ESL, URM, and low income students that may not fare as well on such a test is more important. Why is that so hard to come out and say that? FCPS pretty much said exactly this. Why can't the rest of us?

They actually do but some parents insist on spreading this false narrative. TJ is stronger than ever now that the playing field is level and they've put an end to cheaeting.

Discrimination against Asians does not make TJ stronger. And back up that cheating accusation with something. The county did not raise any alleged "cheating" in the lawsuit brought by Coalition for TJ. If there was any basis for the cheating narrative it would have come out. No such accusation has ever been made in a public forum.

DP. There was no need to bring it up from a legal perspective and would have just made the case muckier from an evidentiary standpoint.

Good points. The facts were already bad enough from FCPS's perspective than calling additional attention the facts would have made things that much worse for FCPS. They will only prevail if the appellate courts shut their eyes to the facts and pretend FCPS was starting from a blank slate when it adopted the new system.

LOL, you fancy yourself quite the legal eagle, don’t you.

It's hard to claim discrimination with a straight face when your 70% of a school.

The new racist admission policy illegally excluded qualified Asians and TJ is now about 56% Asians and it would be at least 85% Asians w/o the new form of illegal 'Chinese exclusion acts'.

Let’s make sure we don’t forget that the largest beneficiary group of the admissions changes were poor Asian students. By a WIDE margin.

Independent research has backed this up. 36 Asian students who were admitted received bonus points for economic disadvantage. That was the largest group of students admitted to receive any of the “experience factor” points. No other group received more than 15 in any area.

In the mean time, at least 360 qualified Asian applicants were excluded. Learn to do some basic math.

Qualified students are excluded from every application and test in school in the world every year. There aren't enough seats in the classroom for everyone you think is "qualified." That's life. Why is that so hard to understand? And isn't it wonderful that a great education can be obtained in many different places such that it actually doesn't matter which school you attend? Grow where you are planted. Any kid as bright at you say they are will be able to excel anywhere. This is also true of preschools and colleges.

The other notion I object to is qualified according to who? Certainly not the committee that made a selection. They picked the applicants who they believed were most qualified. Sure, some privileged kids may score higher than kids in a low-income school, but that doesn't mean they're more qualified or deserving. I'm more impressed with kids who are succeeding in spite of the obstacles they face than a few kids who had every possible advantage and still weren't able to rise to the top of their school.

DP - this is important. Many parents in this area believe that TJ admissions is ultimately a reward for the hard work of the family in optimizing their child's application - this is why on many Facebook posts within one specific community (more granular than just "Asians") you will see the parents congratulated rather than the child. It's kind of gross to watch, honestly.

More than anything, I see the admissions changes as an attempt to mitigate the influence of parents who are hyper-focused on TJ as an outcome - and when I see which parents are the ones yelling and screaming about their convoluted definition of "merit", it seems to me that it's working exactly according to plan.

If all goes well, hopefully we'll see parent behaviors start to change as over-advancement in math, a narrow focus on STEM extracurriculars at too-early ages, and standardized exam prep are disincentivized by the new process. Perhaps those families will indeed find somewhere else to take their kids, which would be a huge win across the board for the region.

My family is Korean-American and this poster is spot on. I’m tired of us getting lumped in to this broad “Asian” category when everyone knows what is actually happening under the surface. Families like mine have been in America for multiple generations (I grew up in Annandale) and this is the case for most of the East and Southeast Asian families that are in this area. We raise our children to understand the value of a great education just like our parents did for us, but we do not equate that with prestige or try to box anyone else out using our resources.

It sickens me when I see people like Nomani and Dutta and Jackson and Miller claiming to stand up for “Asians”. You don’t stand up for Asians - you stand up for a small group of well-resourced Asians who are conflating privilege with merit. And you’re evil and disgusting for claiming that you represent us. We deserve better than you.

The Korean parent I spoke to wasn't too happy to find out that their child's chance of admission went down 90% because of the reforms.

How exactly did she calculate that 90% statistic?

[Anonymous]

It’s time to eliminate the magnet program at TJ. It is way too divisive and it runs counter to the idea of excellence for all.

All the latest admissions changes did was to allocate more seats by geography. That doesn’t mean equal opportunity or excellence for all students, as the fatuous narcissists in the TJAAG pretend; at most, it somewhat tempered the alleged unfairness under the prior admissions process for TJ in a very crude manner that was politically driven snd reflects its own biases. The matter will be tied up in litigation for years, and meanwhile other issues affecting far more students in FCPS will continue to go unaddressed.

Enough is enough. Far better to convert TJ to a full-time Academy program or return the building to serving the immediate community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not in the United States of America. Asians are like 6% of the population so that doesn’t add up. My daughter has 26 Asian students in a class of 31 but the whole state of Virginia is like 7%. SMH

FCPS is about 20% Asian students.

Then it's crazy to think there's discrimination when TJ is like 70% Asian.

Especially since selection is a race-blind process.

Many would prefer to believe in wacky conspiracies even if there's no evidence to support this

My favorite conspiracy theory - Asian kids bought the answers from Curie.

They didn’t buy the answers. They bought access to materials from a secured exam.

That’s not up for debate among serious people who know what is going on in Northern Virginia.

It was clear to everyone that this was going on. Not sure why some are trying to sweep it under the rug. Things had gotten so bad that the school board had to change the admission process since only wealthy applicants could afford to buy their way in.

Yes, it does seem odd they're trying to rewrite history to support this false narrative of a past that never was. Everyone who knows anything also was aware there was widespread cheating.

Agree under the new system the top kids are getting in not just those who require prep to give the appearance of gifted.

Test scores and the remedial math classes don't support your conclusion that "the top kids are getting in." I know the truth hurts, but just own it. Come out and say I don't care if the best and brightest are getting in, it's a county-wide school that needs to serve all of the taxpayers in the county so each middle school gets some seats and we aren't going to require a competitive math test to get in as we think a student body with ESL, URM, and low income students that may not fare as well on such a test is more important. Why is that so hard to come out and say that? FCPS pretty much said exactly this. Why can't the rest of us?

They actually do but some parents insist on spreading this false narrative. TJ is stronger than ever now that the playing field is level and they've put an end to cheaeting.

Discrimination against Asians does not make TJ stronger. And back up that cheating accusation with something. The county did not raise any alleged "cheating" in the lawsuit brought by Coalition for TJ. If there was any basis for the cheating narrative it would have come out. No such accusation has ever been made in a public forum.

DP. There was no need to bring it up from a legal perspective and would have just made the case muckier from an evidentiary standpoint.

Good points. The facts were already bad enough from FCPS's perspective than calling additional attention the facts would have made things that much worse for FCPS. They will only prevail if the appellate courts shut their eyes to the facts and pretend FCPS was starting from a blank slate when it adopted the new system.

LOL, you fancy yourself quite the legal eagle, don’t you.

It's hard to claim discrimination with a straight face when your 70% of a school.

The new racist admission policy illegally excluded qualified Asians and TJ is now about 56% Asians and it would be at least 85% Asians w/o the new form of illegal 'Chinese exclusion acts'.

Let’s make sure we don’t forget that the largest beneficiary group of the admissions changes were poor Asian students. By a WIDE margin.

Independent research has backed this up. 36 Asian students who were admitted received bonus points for economic disadvantage. That was the largest group of students admitted to receive any of the “experience factor” points. No other group received more than 15 in any area.

In the mean time, at least 360 qualified Asian applicants were excluded. Learn to do some basic math.

Qualified students are excluded from every application and test in school in the world every year. There aren't enough seats in the classroom for everyone you think is "qualified." That's life. Why is that so hard to understand? And isn't it wonderful that a great education can be obtained in many different places such that it actually doesn't matter which school you attend? Grow where you are planted. Any kid as bright at you say they are will be able to excel anywhere. This is also true of preschools and colleges.

The other notion I object to is qualified according to who? Certainly not the committee that made a selection. They picked the applicants who they believed were most qualified. Sure, some privileged kids may score higher than kids in a low-income school, but that doesn't mean they're more qualified or deserving. I'm more impressed with kids who are succeeding in spite of the obstacles they face than a few kids who had every possible advantage and still weren't able to rise to the top of their school.

DP - this is important. Many parents in this area believe that TJ admissions is ultimately a reward for the hard work of the family in optimizing their child's application - this is why on many Facebook posts within one specific community (more granular than just "Asians") you will see the parents congratulated rather than the child. It's kind of gross to watch, honestly.

More than anything, I see the admissions changes as an attempt to mitigate the influence of parents who are hyper-focused on TJ as an outcome - and when I see which parents are the ones yelling and screaming about their convoluted definition of "merit", it seems to me that it's working exactly according to plan.

If all goes well, hopefully we'll see parent behaviors start to change as over-advancement in math, a narrow focus on STEM extracurriculars at too-early ages, and standardized exam prep are disincentivized by the new process. Perhaps those families will indeed find somewhere else to take their kids, which would be a huge win across the board for the region.

My family is Korean-American and this poster is spot on. I’m tired of us getting lumped in to this broad “Asian” category when everyone knows what is actually happening under the surface. Families like mine have been in America for multiple generations (I grew up in Annandale) and this is the case for most of the East and Southeast Asian families that are in this area. We raise our children to understand the value of a great education just like our parents did for us, but we do not equate that with prestige or try to box anyone else out using our resources.

It sickens me when I see people like Nomani and Dutta and Jackson and Miller claiming to stand up for “Asians”. You don’t stand up for Asians - you stand up for a small group of well-resourced Asians who are conflating privilege with merit. And you’re evil and disgusting for claiming that you represent us. We deserve better than you.

The Korean parent I spoke to wasn't too happy to find out that their child's chance of admission went down 90% because of the reforms.

PP. I wouldn’t be happy either if that were true. But it’s not in any sense. No school or group saw a 90% drop in their space allocation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s time to eliminate the magnet program at TJ. It is way too divisive and it runs counter to the idea of excellence for all.

All the latest admissions changes did was to allocate more seats by geography. That doesn’t mean equal opportunity or excellence for all students, as the fatuous narcissists in the TJAAG pretend; at most, it somewhat tempered the alleged unfairness under the prior admissions process for TJ in a very crude manner that was politically driven snd reflects its own biases. The matter will be tied up in litigation for years, and meanwhile other issues affecting far more students in FCPS will continue to go unaddressed.

Enough is enough. Far better to convert TJ to a full-time Academy program or return the building to serving the immediate community.

Would you believe me if I told you that there’s an option to NOT tie the process up in litigation that has very little hope of success?

Or that there is an option to NOT try to destroy a thriving program just because you’re butthurt that parents have less control over admissions than they used to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s time to eliminate the magnet program at TJ. It is way too divisive and it runs counter to the idea of excellence for all.

All the latest admissions changes did was to allocate more seats by geography. That doesn’t mean equal opportunity or excellence for all students, as the fatuous narcissists in the TJAAG pretend; at most, it somewhat tempered the alleged unfairness under the prior admissions process for TJ in a very crude manner that was politically driven snd reflects its own biases. The matter will be tied up in litigation for years, and meanwhile other issues affecting far more students in FCPS will continue to go unaddressed.

Enough is enough. Far better to convert TJ to a full-time Academy program or return the building to serving the immediate community.

Would you believe me if I told you that there’s an option to NOT tie the process up in litigation that has very little hope of success?

Or that there is an option to NOT try to destroy a thriving program just because you’re butthurt that parents have less control over admissions than they used to?

You lost me when you used the word “butthurt,” but in any event the “options” you suggest are illusory because you’re basically saying those opposed to the current direction of TJ should just stand down and there’s absolutely no sign that’s going to occur. To the contrary, the same folks who successfully got a district court judge to side with them that the change in the TJ admissions process was racially motivated and violated the Constitution are the ones now calling for TJ administrators to be fired over the alleged failures to have promptly notified students at TJ of their commended status. It never ends, and this type of carping has been going on for many years (except earlier it was the NAACP filing complaints over the admissions process with the Department of Education).

Meanwhile the needs of the 96% of FCPS students attending over high schools, including the vast majority of Black and Hispanic kids in FCPS, often get ignored, due in no small part to the constant obsession over how to build a better admissions mousetrap at TJ.

It’s time to move on, especially if Dr. Reid truly cares about equal opportunities and better outcomes for all students. As a separate school (as opposed to a full-time Academy center that could serve more students), TJ has outlived its usefulness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s time to eliminate the magnet program at TJ. It is way too divisive and it runs counter to the idea of excellence for all.

All the latest admissions changes did was to allocate more seats by geography. That doesn’t mean equal opportunity or excellence for all students, as the fatuous narcissists in the TJAAG pretend; at most, it somewhat tempered the alleged unfairness under the prior admissions process for TJ in a very crude manner that was politically driven snd reflects its own biases. The matter will be tied up in litigation for years, and meanwhile other issues affecting far more students in FCPS will continue to go unaddressed.

Enough is enough. Far better to convert TJ to a full-time Academy program or return the building to serving the immediate community.

Would you believe me if I told you that there’s an option to NOT tie the process up in litigation that has very little hope of success?

Or that there is an option to NOT try to destroy a thriving program just because you’re butthurt that parents have less control over admissions than they used to?

You lost me when you used the word “butthurt,” but in any event the “options” you suggest are illusory because you’re basically saying those opposed to the current direction of TJ should just stand down and there’s absolutely no sign that’s going to occur. To the contrary, the same folks who successfully got a district court judge to side with them that the change in the TJ admissions process was racially motivated and violated the Constitution are the ones now calling for TJ administrators to be fired over the alleged failures to have promptly notified students at TJ of their commended status. It never ends, and this type of carping has been going on for many years (except earlier it was the NAACP filing complaints over the admissions process with the Department of Education).

Meanwhile the needs of the 96% of FCPS students attending over high schools, including the vast majority of Black and Hispanic kids in FCPS, often get ignored, due in no small part to the constant obsession over how to build a better admissions mousetrap at TJ.

It’s time to move on, especially if Dr. Reid truly cares about equal opportunities and better outcomes for all students. As a separate school (as opposed to a full-time Academy center that could serve more students), TJ has outlived its usefulness.

Paragraph 1, condensed: A very small group of people are very upset, and they have succeeded in being annoying as hell about multiple things that they don’t know squat about.

Paragraph 2, condensed: This group of annoying people are successfully wasting enough people’s time that they don’t have time to address other issues in FCPS.

Paragraph 3, condensed: because of the success of these annoying people, we should shut down a great school and essentially give them what they want - because if they can’t have exclusive control over the prestige that comes with admissions then NO ONE should have it.

Clown show.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not in the United States of America. Asians are like 6% of the population so that doesn’t add up. My daughter has 26 Asian students in a class of 31 but the whole state of Virginia is like 7%. SMH

FCPS is about 20% Asian students.

Then it's crazy to think there's discrimination when TJ is like 70% Asian.

Especially since selection is a race-blind process.

Many would prefer to believe in wacky conspiracies even if there's no evidence to support this

My favorite conspiracy theory - Asian kids bought the answers from Curie.

They didn’t buy the answers. They bought access to materials from a secured exam.

That’s not up for debate among serious people who know what is going on in Northern Virginia.

It was clear to everyone that this was going on. Not sure why some are trying to sweep it under the rug. Things had gotten so bad that the school board had to change the admission process since only wealthy applicants could afford to buy their way in.

Yes, it does seem odd they're trying to rewrite history to support this false narrative of a past that never was. Everyone who knows anything also was aware there was widespread cheating.

Agree under the new system the top kids are getting in not just those who require prep to give the appearance of gifted.

Test scores and the remedial math classes don't support your conclusion that "the top kids are getting in." I know the truth hurts, but just own it. Come out and say I don't care if the best and brightest are getting in, it's a county-wide school that needs to serve all of the taxpayers in the county so each middle school gets some seats and we aren't going to require a competitive math test to get in as we think a student body with ESL, URM, and low income students that may not fare as well on such a test is more important. Why is that so hard to come out and say that? FCPS pretty much said exactly this. Why can't the rest of us?

They actually do but some parents insist on spreading this false narrative. TJ is stronger than ever now that the playing field is level and they've put an end to cheaeting.

Discrimination against Asians does not make TJ stronger. And back up that cheating accusation with something. The county did not raise any alleged "cheating" in the lawsuit brought by Coalition for TJ. If there was any basis for the cheating narrative it would have come out. No such accusation has ever been made in a public forum.

DP. There was no need to bring it up from a legal perspective and would have just made the case muckier from an evidentiary standpoint.

Good points. The facts were already bad enough from FCPS's perspective than calling additional attention the facts would have made things that much worse for FCPS. They will only prevail if the appellate courts shut their eyes to the facts and pretend FCPS was starting from a blank slate when it adopted the new system.

LOL, you fancy yourself quite the legal eagle, don’t you.

It's hard to claim discrimination with a straight face when your 70% of a school.

The new racist admission policy illegally excluded qualified Asians and TJ is now about 56% Asians and it would be at least 85% Asians w/o the new form of illegal 'Chinese exclusion acts'.

Let’s make sure we don’t forget that the largest beneficiary group of the admissions changes were poor Asian students. By a WIDE margin.

Independent research has backed this up. 36 Asian students who were admitted received bonus points for economic disadvantage. That was the largest group of students admitted to receive any of the “experience factor” points. No other group received more than 15 in any area.

In the mean time, at least 360 qualified Asian applicants were excluded. Learn to do some basic math.

Qualified students are excluded from every application and test in school in the world every year. There aren't enough seats in the classroom for everyone you think is "qualified." That's life. Why is that so hard to understand? And isn't it wonderful that a great education can be obtained in many different places such that it actually doesn't matter which school you attend? Grow where you are planted. Any kid as bright at you say they are will be able to excel anywhere. This is also true of preschools and colleges.

The other notion I object to is qualified according to who? Certainly not the committee that made a selection. They picked the applicants who they believed were most qualified. Sure, some privileged kids may score higher than kids in a low-income school, but that doesn't mean they're more qualified or deserving. I'm more impressed with kids who are succeeding in spite of the obstacles they face than a few kids who had every possible advantage and still weren't able to rise to the top of their school.

DP - this is important. Many parents in this area believe that TJ admissions is ultimately a reward for the hard work of the family in optimizing their child's application - this is why on many Facebook posts within one specific community (more granular than just "Asians") you will see the parents congratulated rather than the child. It's kind of gross to watch, honestly.

More than anything, I see the admissions changes as an attempt to mitigate the influence of parents who are hyper-focused on TJ as an outcome - and when I see which parents are the ones yelling and screaming about their convoluted definition of "merit", it seems to me that it's working exactly according to plan.

If all goes well, hopefully we'll see parent behaviors start to change as over-advancement in math, a narrow focus on STEM extracurriculars at too-early ages, and standardized exam prep are disincentivized by the new process. Perhaps those families will indeed find somewhere else to take their kids, which would be a huge win across the board for the region.

My family is Korean-American and this poster is spot on. I’m tired of us getting lumped in to this broad “Asian” category when everyone knows what is actually happening under the surface. Families like mine have been in America for multiple generations (I grew up in Annandale) and this is the case for most of the East and Southeast Asian families that are in this area. We raise our children to understand the value of a great education just like our parents did for us, but we do not equate that with prestige or try to box anyone else out using our resources.

It sickens me when I see people like Nomani and Dutta and Jackson and Miller claiming to stand up for “Asians”. You don’t stand up for Asians - you stand up for a small group of well-resourced Asians who are conflating privilege with merit. And you’re evil and disgusting for claiming that you represent us. We deserve better than you.

The Korean parent I spoke to wasn't too happy to find out that their child's chance of admission went down 90% because of the reforms.

How exactly did she calculate that 90% statistic?

She was told it in a dream.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s time to eliminate the magnet program at TJ. It is way too divisive and it runs counter to the idea of excellence for all.

All the latest admissions changes did was to allocate more seats by geography. That doesn’t mean equal opportunity or excellence for all students, as the fatuous narcissists in the TJAAG pretend; at most, it somewhat tempered the alleged unfairness under the prior admissions process for TJ in a very crude manner that was politically driven snd reflects its own biases. The matter will be tied up in litigation for years, and meanwhile other issues affecting far more students in FCPS will continue to go unaddressed.

Enough is enough. Far better to convert TJ to a full-time Academy program or return the building to serving the immediate community.

Would you believe me if I told you that there’s an option to NOT tie the process up in litigation that has very little hope of success?

Or that there is an option to NOT try to destroy a thriving program just because you’re butthurt that parents have less control over admissions than they used to?

You lost me when you used the word “butthurt,” but in any event the “options” you suggest are illusory because you’re basically saying those opposed to the current direction of TJ should just stand down and there’s absolutely no sign that’s going to occur. To the contrary, the same folks who successfully got a district court judge to side with them that the change in the TJ admissions process was racially motivated and violated the Constitution are the ones now calling for TJ administrators to be fired over the alleged failures to have promptly notified students at TJ of their commended status. It never ends, and this type of carping has been going on for many years (except earlier it was the NAACP filing complaints over the admissions process with the Department of Education).

Meanwhile the needs of the 96% of FCPS students attending over high schools, including the vast majority of Black and Hispanic kids in FCPS, often get ignored, due in no small part to the constant obsession over how to build a better admissions mousetrap at TJ.

It’s time to move on, especially if Dr. Reid truly cares about equal opportunities and better outcomes for all students. As a separate school (as opposed to a full-time Academy center that could serve more students), TJ has outlived its usefulness.

Paragraph 1, condensed: A very small group of people are very upset, and they have succeeded in being annoying as hell about multiple things that they don’t know squat about.

Paragraph 2, condensed: This group of annoying people are successfully wasting enough people’s time that they don’t have time to address other issues in FCPS.

Paragraph 3, condensed: because of the success of these annoying people, we should shut down a great school and essentially give them what they want - because if they can’t have exclusive control over the prestige that comes with admissions then NO ONE should have it.

Clown show.

Makes sense to shut it down but because we're just tired of the never ending complaints.

[Anonymous]

There are clowns on both sides, and they’ve been sucking all the oxygen out of the room and wasting everyone’s time for years. It didn’t start with, nor will it end with, the Coalition for TJ. When you set a single school up as the scarce resource that is infinitely superior to the alternatives, of course people will fight incessantly over access.

Rather than continue to incentivize parents and local activists to keep fighting over access to TJ like a bunch of rab lats, which is all the various groups like the NAACP, TJAAG, and Coalition for TJ have been doing for years, it is time to realize families could have access to far greater resources, if only FCPS was not allowing those resources to lose value because we elect a bunch of cretins to the School Board who think it’s their prime mission in life to favor some of the lab rats over others and not to consider the bigger picture.

Shut it down.