What SHOULD Dems do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seeing how lost Democrats are today, I am really struck by how remarkable Barack Obama was. He transcended all the stupid little boxes that progressives have these days. If he were to emerge today, I'd expect Democrats to be completely twisted into pretzels as they agonize over whether Obama is too black or not black enough.

Candidates matter much more than the boxes they are ticking. Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris lost not because they are women but because they were shitty candidates running on platforms that most Americans rejected. I'm pretty sure Nikki Haley would have won if she had been the Republican nominee. Voters rejected Harris not because she's a woman, but because Biden progressives suck - from illegal immigration to preferential racial hiring to soft on violent crime policies to wrecking an entire generation of public school students because of cruel blue state Covid restrictions. Jesus Christ Himself would have lost running as a Democrat in 2024.

So Democrats have both a candidate problem and a policy problem. What they need is a movement leader - a charismatic individual who can move Democrats away from losing social issues and toward winning economic issues. The economy is going to suck over the next few years. That is where Democrats can pick up heaps of voters if they can somehow re-orient to being the party of the working and middle class. Identity politics are death for Democrats. They need to walk away from that and focus on health insurance, income inequality, parental leave, safe neighborhoods, good schools, and all the other kitchen table issues that progressives have ignored for years. There is so much space for Democrats to be the dominant party in the US if they could just focus on the things that matter to the working and middle class - and that is not gender pronouns or Gaza.

Right now the only prominent voices I'm seeing that really resonate with working and middle class voters are Bernie Sanders and AOC. But Bernie is too old and AOC is too young. So that space is completely free for a more viable candidate. And I'm not seeing anyone. People like Buttigieg and Booker and Whitmer and Newsome will never do anything that pisses off donors and the DNC. But Democrats desperately need exactly the kind of candidate that pisses off donors and the DNC. I don't know who that person is, but that's what Democrats need. And their race or gender is completely irrelevant. It's their character, charisma, and policy that matters. But if Democrats choose to go with either a milquetoast DNC candidate or an identity politics candidate, they are doomed to irrelevancy. But a charismatic class warrior will win big against the party of Elon Musk.

LOL. You just listed, what 10 Dems and said none should have won, could have won, or will win. 🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That dream candidate might to better as an independent. Not only would today’s Dems get all fussy and nitpicky over Obama’s exact racial and sexual and religious identity, they would HATE his old stances on strong borders, marriage between a man and a woman, no men in girls’ locker rooms, etc. The party has progressed a ling way since Obama and since Hillary. And the candidate will have to adapt to the Party, not vice versa. Not even Bernie, with his deep understanding of how migrants suppress American wages, dares to talk about that anymore. He now toes the “no human is illegal” line. Obama and Hillary too. Their old principles have “evolved” massively. They aren’t even running for office! But just to stay relevant, they are all in on migrants and trans folks.

More nonsense. Dems can’t win unless they are independents?!

Trolling well, my friend.

[Anonymous]

Here’s what’s gonna happen. The Dem candidate is going to make some noise internally about the economy. He’ll say “Yes we’re all in on migrants and trans folks, but we also have to do some “messaging” on the economy. We have to say something about the concerns of the working class and tne middle class.” And that won’t be enough.

Dems have LOST the middle class and working class. Those groups are more Republicans now. Dems are LESS trusted than Republicans on the economy , even after recessions and stock corrections. OUR belief that Dems are better for the working and middle classes is wrong—income inequality has increased under every single Democratic administration in our lifetimes. And even if we were right, which we aren’t, the voters wouldn’t believe it.

We’re at a point where we need a hard reset to win back the working and middle classes. Messaging isn’t going to do it, even if we dropped all messaging about climate and race and migrants trans folks and bisexual folks and MAP folks and focused 100% on the economy.

Voters need us to show not tell. If we want to earn their votes back, we’ll have to help Trump lock down the border, do mass deportations, cut costs, bring back manufacturing, etc. In our polarized era, both teams are trained to obstruct everything, to deny the other team a win. But Dems need to actively work FOR the working and middle classes (and their Republican policy preferences) to have even a chance of our messaging landing with them in 2028.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That dream candidate might to better as an independent. Not only would today’s Dems get all fussy and nitpicky over Obama’s exact racial and sexual and religious identity, they would HATE his old stances on strong borders, marriage between a man and a woman, no men in girls’ locker rooms, etc. The party has progressed a ling way since Obama and since Hillary. And the candidate will have to adapt to the Party, not vice versa. Not even Bernie, with his deep understanding of how migrants suppress American wages, dares to talk about that anymore. He now toes the “no human is illegal” line. Obama and Hillary too. Their old principles have “evolved” massively. They aren’t even running for office! But just to stay relevant, they are all in on migrants and trans folks.

More nonsense. Dems can’t win unless they are independents?!

Trolling well, my friend.

Dems obviously have the structural advantages of a oarty apparatus. But they also have a lot of ideological and ego-related baggage. Obama 2008 would now be rejected by dcurbanmoms for his Nazi views on migrants and trans folks. There’s no humility. Losing voters is making us angrily double down. Rahm Emanuel wants to come teach us that “it’s the economy, stupid,” but he’s got an uphill battle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That dream candidate might to better as an independent. Not only would today’s Dems get all fussy and nitpicky over Obama’s exact racial and sexual and religious identity, they would HATE his old stances on strong borders, marriage between a man and a woman, no men in girls’ locker rooms, etc. The party has progressed a ling way since Obama and since Hillary. And the candidate will have to adapt to the Party, not vice versa. Not even Bernie, with his deep understanding of how migrants suppress American wages, dares to talk about that anymore. He now toes the “no human is illegal” line. Obama and Hillary too. Their old principles have “evolved” massively. They aren’t even running for office! But just to stay relevant, they are all in on migrants and trans folks.

More nonsense. Dems can’t win unless they are independents?!

Trolling well, my friend.

Dems obviously have the structural advantages of a oarty apparatus. But they also have a lot of ideological and ego-related baggage. Obama 2008 would now be rejected by dcurbanmoms for his Nazi views on migrants and trans folks. There’s no humility. Losing voters is making us angrily double down. Rahm Emanuel wants to come teach us that “it’s the economy, stupid,” but he’s got an uphill battle.

Obama was president a long time ago. Society evolves, people change. We’re not going back as much as you’d and all the other trolls on this thread would like to. I’m not 100% on board with the Dems, but I don’t have to be because I know without a doubt they are the better party to help American thrive. I’m also not afraid of change.

MAGA is constantly looking in the rear view, but the past is gone. BUT you might just be carving out a future you may very well not like because you are scared of change, you’re tapped into the fear.

I’d like to go back to the days where we talked about what tax rates should apply or debate which environmental policies are best for us, instead of debating whether we should tax billionaires and if climate change even exists. But, I realize we’re long past that too.

We have more in common that you think, if you’d only believe it.

[Anonymous]

It's a different time than in Obama's. Shit changes.

Lots of anger now and we are post Covid.

Joe F-up a lot. He was NOT Obama. I did not agree with all of Obama decisions but I did respect him. I also respected and sincerely believe that his ambition to be POTUS came from a place of honor. He was always going to try to do best he can and he is well positioned to manage effectives based on his experience and education. I did not feel this way about Biden.

Biden's strength was in his experience in Congress and legislation. He was a good partner for Obama to have. He was not someone who was right to become POTUS esp at his age. Maybe he should have run immediately after him but to have had Trump in there messed it up for all of us.

There was a leadership void (of sanity) and Trump being the last POTUS prior to Biden was able to leverage the opportunity to take the helm.

There was a lot of anger after Obama and I don't think it was all of his fault per se but I don't know. Things were messy post Obama thus Trump came to be as someone new, someone who may be different than status quo. People took that chance.

After Joe, there really was nobody else. I would suggest, after Obama there was nobody else.

If GOP had anyone other than Trump, it would still be GOP the victor. The Dems were never going to get the throne back after Obama. It's a different time moving forward and I'm unsure when GOP is going to fade. I truly see the near future as a time if new structures being established. I don't know that we will ever have a GOP/Dem establishment again.

I'm not as pessimistic as some who seem the apocalypse raising anarchy country wide, I don't think we will be a civil war but I do think that it's an interesting time and we are at the beginning of a radical change of gov system in US. No idea whether it will be good/bad but I do feel it'll be completely new.

I'd bet that we aren't going to be authoritarian regime but I do think the US is done being as powerful as we were. The reaction to the even policies currently happening doesn't compare to the results those will produce. Our reputation and standing globally and economically are going to be seen over long term as it's a question of relationship management not just internal reactions in this country.

[Anonymous]

People that run budget deficits are not your friend. It's like a someone that buys you a car on your credit card. Free money for the bank. Thanks for nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Voters need us to show not tell. If we want to earn their votes back, we’ll have to help Trump lock down the border, do mass deportations, cut costs, bring back manufacturing, etc. In our polarized era, both teams are trained to obstruct everything, to deny the other team a win. But Dems need to actively work FOR the working and middle classes (and their Republican policy preferences) to have even a chance of our messaging landing with them in 2028.

This is how I feel for sure. I give them ten to twenty, ten for good behavior, but I have yet to see good behavior.

Democrats don't have much they can do to show this as they don't control many states. They do have a large number of cities. I really need to see those cities roll back and reverse direction on sanctuary nonsense.

There can be no "trust us" on immigration until that happens. In practice the way immigration impacts everyone. Exhibit A: Chamber of Commerce wants immigration *extremely badly*, they don't seem to ever layoff it. There will be no trusting Democrats on anything until that happens.

[Anonymous]

The disconnect between Democratic Party attitudes and accomplishments has never been bigger. Upper middle class striver Dems are utterly convinced that they are classier, smarter, and more moral than anyone who has ever lived.

Meanwhile, voters defected to Trump and people are moving away from blue cities and states. Dems stand for forcing things on unwilling Americans: illegal immigrant gang members, forced injections, biological males in the girls’ room, tenure for DC bureaucrats, senile Presidents, rigged primaries, endless wars, failing schools, and on and on and on. All these terrible policies would be less off-putting if Democrats weren’t constantly praising themselves for them and calling everyone else stupid.

It’s clear from these attitudes that most upper middle class Dems don’t even realize how unpopular they and their Party are with normal people. They are like Wile E Coyote after walking offf the cliff but before looking down and starting to fall. It’s a long way down. Dems are still years away from even beginning to make the necessary changes to compete.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The disconnect between Democratic Party attitudes and accomplishments has never been bigger. Upper middle class striver Dems are utterly convinced that they are classier, smarter, and more moral than anyone who has ever lived.

Meanwhile, voters defected to Trump and people are moving away from blue cities and states. Dems stand for forcing things on unwilling Americans: illegal immigrant gang members, forced injections, biological males in the girls’ room, tenure for DC bureaucrats, senile Presidents, rigged primaries, endless wars, failing schools, and on and on and on. All these terrible policies would be less off-putting if Democrats weren’t constantly praising themselves for them and calling everyone else stupid.

It’s clear from these attitudes that most upper middle class Dems don’t even realize how unpopular they and their Party are with normal people. They are like Wile E Coyote after walking offf the cliff but before looking down and starting to fall. It’s a long way down. Dems are still years away from even beginning to make the necessary changes to compete.

+1 million agree with all of this

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The disconnect between Democratic Party attitudes and accomplishments has never been bigger. Upper middle class striver Dems are utterly convinced that they are classier, smarter, and more moral than anyone who has ever lived.

Meanwhile, voters defected to Trump and people are moving away from blue cities and states. Dems stand for forcing things on unwilling Americans: illegal immigrant gang members, forced injections, biological males in the girls’ room, tenure for DC bureaucrats, senile Presidents, rigged primaries, endless wars, failing schools, and on and on and on. All these terrible policies would be less off-putting if Democrats weren’t constantly praising themselves for them and calling everyone else stupid.

It’s clear from these attitudes that most upper middle class Dems don’t even realize how unpopular they and their Party are with normal people. They are like Wile E Coyote after walking offf the cliff but before looking down and starting to fall. It’s a long way down. Dems are still years away from even beginning to make the necessary changes to compete.

Maybe if you say the magic incantation “UpperMiddleClassStriverDems” AGAIN (for the 700th time in this thread) a genie will appear and make everything you said true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The disconnect between Democratic Party attitudes and accomplishments has never been bigger. Upper middle class striver Dems are utterly convinced that they are classier, smarter, and more moral than anyone who has ever lived.

Meanwhile, voters defected to Trump and people are moving away from blue cities and states. Dems stand for forcing things on unwilling Americans: illegal immigrant gang members, forced injections, biological males in the girls’ room, tenure for DC bureaucrats, senile Presidents, rigged primaries, endless wars, failing schools, and on and on and on. All these terrible policies would be less off-putting if Democrats weren’t constantly praising themselves for them and calling everyone else stupid.

It’s clear from these attitudes that most upper middle class Dems don’t even realize how unpopular they and their Party are with normal people. They are like Wile E Coyote after walking offf the cliff but before looking down and starting to fall. It’s a long way down. Dems are still years away from even beginning to make the necessary changes to compete.

Nobody takes you seriously. This is just Trumped up MAGA parroting a senile President who “constantly praises himself.”

[Anonymous]

New "OPT" bill is a GREAT SOLUTION to outrageous anti-U.S.-worker program

On Tuesday, Rep. Paul Gosar (AZ-09) introduced H.R. 2315, which would end the Optional Practical Training program (OPT) that provides incentives for employers to hire foreign students from U.S. colleges instead of American graduates for high-skill jobs. In a statement, Gosar said:

"OPT incentivizes greedy businesses to fire Americans and replace them with inexpensive foreign labor by avoiding having to pay FICA and Medicare payroll taxes and other employee benefits. The OPT program completely abandons young Americans who have spent years and tens of thousands of dollars pursuing careers in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics....Our government should not be incentivizing foreign employees over Americans."


Where are the democrats that claim they help US workers over business???????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New "OPT" bill is a GREAT SOLUTION to outrageous anti-U.S.-worker program

On Tuesday, Rep. Paul Gosar (AZ-09) introduced H.R. 2315, which would end the Optional Practical Training program (OPT) that provides incentives for employers to hire foreign students from U.S. colleges instead of American graduates for high-skill jobs. In a statement, Gosar said:

"OPT incentivizes greedy businesses to fire Americans and replace them with inexpensive foreign labor by avoiding having to pay FICA and Medicare payroll taxes and other employee benefits. The OPT program completely abandons young Americans who have spent years and tens of thousands of dollars pursuing careers in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics....Our government should not be incentivizing foreign employees over Americans."


Where are the democrats that claim they help US workers over business???????

Do you want to start by asking Musk and Bezos first? They’re the ones who, you know, actually employ foreign workers. Maybe MAGA should learn math and engineering, if they want a job with Musk. Bezos ships customer service jobs to India so he can $$$$, so maybe demand he actually MAGA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The disconnect between Democratic Party attitudes and accomplishments has never been bigger. Upper middle class striver Dems are utterly convinced that they are classier, smarter, and more moral than anyone who has ever lived.

Meanwhile, voters defected to Trump and people are moving away from blue cities and states. Dems stand for forcing things on unwilling Americans: illegal immigrant gang members, forced injections, biological males in the girls’ room, tenure for DC bureaucrats, senile Presidents, rigged primaries, endless wars, failing schools, and on and on and on. All these terrible policies would be less off-putting if Democrats weren’t constantly praising themselves for them and calling everyone else stupid.

It’s clear from these attitudes that most upper middle class Dems don’t even realize how unpopular they and their Party are with normal people. They are like Wile E Coyote after walking offf the cliff but before looking down and starting to fall. It’s a long way down. Dems are still years away from even beginning to make the necessary changes to compete.

+1 million agree with all of this

I became upper middle class. But I was not born that way and I retained a lot of connections and openness. Some things you don’t forget and my family keeps me humble I am in my 40s. At least a few times, I was shut down and shunned by leftists when I shared my more moderate views. And I’m not that moderate! it’s been an unpleasant ~four years— not terrible but i definitely felt out of sync. Now the extremists are in charge and I don’t feel so foolish for all of my moments of dissent

Please stop shutting down dissent. You may learn how to win back an election
Don’t tell me that this sounds ironic given the current situation. I am aware