S/O The obsession with class/tackiness/social standing

[Anonymous]

I find the existence of the thousands of threads on this so interesting. Partly because my parents come from a country where lower class people have a much harder time changing their “class”- they can’t afford to take care of their teeth, they speak differently, dress differently, etc. It’s a much more marked difference than in America where the differences between a middle class person and an upper class person are more subtle. Personally it’s not something I think about with regards to my own standing- as long as my children grow up to be educated and civic-minded with decent jobs and teeth I think they will be fine. That’s mostly what I worry about.

What drives the interest in this? Do you think people feel insecure about their place in society? Like, if they are perceived as lower class then they and their children will be locked out of opportunities? Is this another symptom of the wealth gap in our country, that a bunch of middle class women obsess about this endlessly?

[Anonymous]

It's one person

[Anonymous]

Mental illness is rampant here.

[Anonymous]

Agree. I’ve posted here all over the place, and never have I ever desired to know what you think of “class.”

Most other people here also do not care.

It’s one, maybe two, person(s).

[Anonymous]

Well fwiw, I wouldn't say I am "obsessed" but I find the topic interesting. Primarily because I am a person who changed classes (maybe). Grew up poor, parents worked as a waitress and mechanic, barely got by, I'm a first generation college graduate, then I got a master's degree. Husband grew up the same way then through luck was involved in an IPO and made millions. Of course that was life changing. It kind of felt a little bit like winning the lottery. But I don't feel that the "social" part of our class changed that much.

The word is "social class" right? So I think it's interesting to question how much of it is social and how much is economic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well fwiw, I wouldn't say I am "obsessed" but I find the topic interesting. Primarily because I am a person who changed classes (maybe). Grew up poor, parents worked as a waitress and mechanic, barely got by, I'm a first generation college graduate, then I got a master's degree. Husband grew up the same way then through luck was involved in an IPO and made millions. Of course that was life changing. It kind of felt a little bit like winning the lottery. But I don't feel that the "social" part of our class changed that much.

The word is "social class" right? So I think it's interesting to question how much of it is social and how much is economic.

OP here. This doesn't really explain *why* you are concerned about your "social class." You are educated and wealthy- what is missing from your life? Are you ever in some social situation where you don't fit in despite having money and an education?

[Anonymous]

I think this is directed at me (profile writer) so I'll answer.

It started out as a fascination with other cultures and languages. I went to a private school (despite being WC, thank goodness for scholarships) and each year we covered a new country in depth. Most of my formal education revolves around international politics.

Then I found myself having trouble fitting in to British culture and picked up a book called Watching the English, which is an explainer on UK culture written by an anthropologist. I shared some of the passages of the book with some British colleagues and they were horrified. They said the book dissected their culture as though they were pygmies.

Then it occurred to me that very little is actually understood or written about powerful cultures- there's no explicit or systematic attempt to understand us. So I started trying to view our culture as though I was one of those safari hat wearing social scientists on National Geographic, explaining the customs and patterns of their extremely foreign hosts. It turns out, it's a lot of fun to see our culture in this light.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well fwiw, I wouldn't say I am "obsessed" but I find the topic interesting. Primarily because I am a person who changed classes (maybe). Grew up poor, parents worked as a waitress and mechanic, barely got by, I'm a first generation college graduate, then I got a master's degree. Husband grew up the same way then through luck was involved in an IPO and made millions. Of course that was life changing. It kind of felt a little bit like winning the lottery. But I don't feel that the "social" part of our class changed that much.

The word is "social class" right? So I think it's interesting to question how much of it is social and how much is economic.

OP here. This doesn't really explain *why* you are concerned about your "social class." You are educated and wealthy- what is missing from your life? Are you ever in some social situation where you don't fit in despite having money and an education?

To answer the bolded question, no. In my life, I've generally found that the only color people care about is green. If you have the money to be there (including "fancy" places like charity galas and country clubs), they think you belong. We're not trying to join the social elite though so I'm sure that makes a difference.

I'm not concerned about our standing at all, I just find the topic interesting.

According to the profile writer in the other thread, my DH and I are "nouveau riche" which I get the sense from her posts most people think is the worst, lol. It's perfectly fine with me. I'd much rather splurge and have fun on vacation, buy nice cars, have a nice house, etc. then live such parsimonious lives as she says the UC do in America.

Honestly, it's a head scratcher to me as to why anyone would want to live like those people (Old Money WASPs). Reusing tinfoil? Driving the same beat up Volvo for over 20 years? Not updating the finishes in your house or going to fancy restaurants or luxury destinations? No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Profile writer, I don't think this is directed at you. There is a 29 page thread of people arguing...there are plenty of people who are preoccupied with this. Also I disagree that there's no analysis...i mean, sociology has been on it for 150 years or so.

I think it's pretty funny but I also think it may be connected to both the huge amount of wealth and high cost of living in DC, lots of people make a lot of money but worry that it's not enough, their kids won't have the best opportunities to carry on the success, etc. A lot of people are also exposed to a degree of spending they didn't know existed. It seems like the anxiety of the successful and upwardly mobile.

I don't think it's the very average teachers, mid-level feds, park rangers, HR specialists, etc. who are perpetuating all ther class discussion. I think it's the lawyers and salespeople who want to know where they rank and how far to the top.

[Anonymous]

PW here- I actually never parsed old money from new money explicitly in my posts, apart from saying I personally prefer new money. New money worked for what they've got.

[Anonymous]

I think it's one person who loves to start crap with the threads. She titles the threads re: "social class" or "why do white women" or "why do white people." And then people fall all over themselves to argue and give her exactly what she wants. It's kind of gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PW here- I actually never parsed old money from new money explicitly in my posts, apart from saying I personally prefer new money. New money worked for what they've got.

8:29 here

Someone scoffed at me because I said I like Stickley furniture and used the dreaded phrase “dining set” instead of “table and chairs.” Oh the horror. That may not have been you. Also I would like to go to Portugal (and I’ve been to Iceland and thought it was amazing) so there’s that. We’re going to Banff/Lake Louise/Jasper this summer. Do I get demerits for that as well? I know it is Instagram popular.

Whatever. I never said I was UC. In fact, in that thread I said we were UMC at best despite having more money than most of them.

[Anonymous]

8:29 again

Also we genuinely enjoy the OBX and rent a house in the beach for the last two weeks of every August. I understand from reading on here that DCUM thinks the OBX is trashy and I’ve ne we understood that. I think it is pretty and laid back. Shrug. Also it is pretty expensive!

[Anonymous]

It is weird that people are obsessed. I only like reading books about it (Fussell etc). I find DCUM discussion of it banal.

[Anonymous]

I don't think there is an obsession with class, per se, in the United States. We don't have a class system as originally defined, like the old European and British class systems where there was a rigid pecking order of social classes from the king all the way to the poorest people, where you were born, lived and died in the same class no matter how much or little money you might have, where you were defined by not who you are or your accomplishments but by your family and the class they came from. We have never had anything like that, indeed, the whole point of the US was to get away from that.

But we do have socio-economic cultural groups. Everyone belongs to one. A clear difference between the class system and a socio-economic system is that you can change your groups very easily. So there is an element of wanting to fit in with your preferred group. You become aware of the little social rules and dos and don'ts and clothing and styles of your particular cultural group you want to join and that's where some of the obsession with tackiness comes from.

Then we do have some people who are obsessed with either their warped view of what constitutes "old money" families, or the pretty folks of the country club sets. Neither entity has any meaningful influence or social standing in today's world. Even Bill Gates has no "social" standing because there really isn't a class system that gives a person social precedence over others, and where lack of membership in certain clubs could exclude you from other opportunities.

The irony, given that the discussion is class, is that the most idealized "class" that you could say is aspired to by the most number of people is whitebread upper middle class. Race is not important here, it's the lifestyle, a.k.a Howard County McMansion and a house on a lake somewhere. The other idealized lifestyle that appeals to a much smaller number of people but one that is commonly aspired to in DC and familiar to many of us on DCUM is the educated urban upper middle class. The Chevy Chase/Bethesda/Arlington/NW DC and even Takoma Park if you're really liberal, well-travelled, well-read, Whole Foods shopping, New Yorker reading tribes. But they're not a class, just a socio-economic cultural group. There are no barriers to entry, just have the income and aspirations.