Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.
the plan is to improve bus transit …
Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...
It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.
Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.
Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.
Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.
Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.
You sound slow, so we'll break it down:
1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive 2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.
These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.
Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.
That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.
But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.
"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.
Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.
Those "very few" buses still manage to move some 20,000 people a day you realize, right? That's half the users on GA. With a bus lane, they still would only get 1/3 of the road surface.
This is a completely different situation than the bike lanes on CT, which you also oppose, which had a hypothetical daily use in the hundreds. GA has 20,000 people right now stuck in those never ending lines of cars. A bus lane would cut tens of thousands of commutes down, and potentially entice people out of their cars into the faster buses.
Thinking more broadly, emergency vehicles would be able to get to emergencies much faster using these bus lanes. It would also lead to less traffic and parking demand downtown. Seems like an absolute slam dunk.
Pfft. I'd be surprised if 10 percent of people on Georgia are on the bus.
Who needs data when you can just make stuff up based on what you see through your windshield while driving?
Look at the WMATA web site. There's a bus tracker! You can see how many buses are currently on Georgia Avenue! Spoiler alert: There's very few.
It's 9:49 am, I just looked at the 70 bus, and there are 12 of them on the route.
Here are some fun facts about buses:
1. They can carry a lot of people
2. People can get on and off along the way
12 buses on a route that's almost 10 miles long does not seem like very many buses.
When you consider that those 12 buses are ON AVERAGE carrying ~270 people a day (~440k trips and about 1,600 buses in service) where the average personal vehicle has 1.25, that's the equivalent of about 2,600 fewer vehicles a day on GA ave. That's a good amount fewer vehicles.
Oh, and the bus riders are 81% minority. And 55% zero car households. So it's also an accessibility thing for lower income folks.
But they're Maryland commuters and I thought we hated Maryland commuters.
They're obviously not all Maryland commuters. And even if every single one of them were Maryland commuters, they would be Maryland commuters on buses, which is better for DC residents than Maryland commuters in cars.
Some posters really are having difficulty with the concept that bus riders can get on and off the bus anywhere along the route.
The same can obviously be said about drivers so that's pretty ironic.
What I'm having difficulty with is the idea that we should punish DC residents to benefit MD commuters. It's about the hypocrisy and situational ethics.
How does a bus lane punish DC residents?
Georgia Avenue is a major thoroughfare in this city. A gazillion people drive on it every day. This plan would create total gridlock on Georgia Avenue, which drivers would avoid by taking every side street in Ward 4, streets that were never intended to accommodate that much traffic.
This, again?
Yes, it's a major thoroughfare, which is exactly why it needs bus lanes, which will improve mobility for people.
Metrobus is hardly an improvement in mobility - with or without dedicated bus lanes.
Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.
the plan is to improve bus transit …
Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...
It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.
Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.
Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.
Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.
Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.
You sound slow, so we'll break it down:
1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive 2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.
These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.
Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.
That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.
But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.
"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.
Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.
Those "very few" buses still manage to move some 20,000 people a day you realize, right? That's half the users on GA. With a bus lane, they still would only get 1/3 of the road surface.
This is a completely different situation than the bike lanes on CT, which you also oppose, which had a hypothetical daily use in the hundreds. GA has 20,000 people right now stuck in those never ending lines of cars. A bus lane would cut tens of thousands of commutes down, and potentially entice people out of their cars into the faster buses.
Thinking more broadly, emergency vehicles would be able to get to emergencies much faster using these bus lanes. It would also lead to less traffic and parking demand downtown. Seems like an absolute slam dunk.
Pfft. I'd be surprised if 10 percent of people on Georgia are on the bus.
Who needs data when you can just make stuff up based on what you see through your windshield while driving?
Look at the WMATA web site. There's a bus tracker! You can see how many buses are currently on Georgia Avenue! Spoiler alert: There's very few.
It's 9:49 am, I just looked at the 70 bus, and there are 12 of them on the route.
Here are some fun facts about buses:
1. They can carry a lot of people
2. People can get on and off along the way
12 buses on a route that's almost 10 miles long does not seem like very many buses.
When you consider that those 12 buses are ON AVERAGE carrying ~270 people a day (~440k trips and about 1,600 buses in service) where the average personal vehicle has 1.25, that's the equivalent of about 2,600 fewer vehicles a day on GA ave. That's a good amount fewer vehicles.
Oh, and the bus riders are 81% minority. And 55% zero car households. So it's also an accessibility thing for lower income folks.
But they're Maryland commuters and I thought we hated Maryland commuters.
They're obviously not all Maryland commuters. And even if every single one of them were Maryland commuters, they would be Maryland commuters on buses, which is better for DC residents than Maryland commuters in cars.
Some posters really are having difficulty with the concept that bus riders can get on and off the bus anywhere along the route.
The same can obviously be said about drivers so that's pretty ironic.
What I'm having difficulty with is the idea that we should punish DC residents to benefit MD commuters. It's about the hypocrisy and situational ethics.
How does a bus lane punish DC residents?
Georgia Avenue is a major thoroughfare in this city. A gazillion people drive on it every day. This plan would create total gridlock on Georgia Avenue, which drivers would avoid by taking every side street in Ward 4, streets that were never intended to accommodate that much traffic.
This, again?
Yes, it's a major thoroughfare, which is exactly why it needs bus lanes, which will improve mobility for people.
Metrobus is hardly an improvement in mobility - with or without dedicated bus lanes.
It certainly isn't for people who refuse to take it. For people who do take it, or at least don't refuse to take it, it absolutely is an improvement in mobility. Furthermore, even if you refuse to take it, you should want everybody else to take it. More people on the bus means fewer people in their cars, getting in the way of you in your car.
Anonymous wrote:DC needs to stop pretending it’s some enormous city and accept the fact that it’s a large car-centric town in a car-centric metropolitan area which is dominated by the suburbs.
Even assuming this "fact" were true (which it isn't), there would be no reason it had to stay that way forevermore.
NP. Sorry to burst your bubble but the PP is right and the region was gotten even more car-centric since COVID. Sure, DC can try to force people to change commuting preferences by restricting car capacity on roads but - in the long term - the only thing that’s going to do is drive even more jobs into safer and more car convenient locations in the suburbs.
Nobody is forcing you out of your car. You will still be able to drive.
Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.
the plan is to improve bus transit …
Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...
It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.
Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.
Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.
Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.
Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.
You sound slow, so we'll break it down:
1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive 2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.
These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.
Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.
That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.
But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.
"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.
Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.
Those "very few" buses still manage to move some 20,000 people a day you realize, right? That's half the users on GA. With a bus lane, they still would only get 1/3 of the road surface.
This is a completely different situation than the bike lanes on CT, which you also oppose, which had a hypothetical daily use in the hundreds. GA has 20,000 people right now stuck in those never ending lines of cars. A bus lane would cut tens of thousands of commutes down, and potentially entice people out of their cars into the faster buses.
Thinking more broadly, emergency vehicles would be able to get to emergencies much faster using these bus lanes. It would also lead to less traffic and parking demand downtown. Seems like an absolute slam dunk.
Pfft. I'd be surprised if 10 percent of people on Georgia are on the bus.
Who needs data when you can just make stuff up based on what you see through your windshield while driving?
Look at the WMATA web site. There's a bus tracker! You can see how many buses are currently on Georgia Avenue! Spoiler alert: There's very few.
It's 9:49 am, I just looked at the 70 bus, and there are 12 of them on the route.
Here are some fun facts about buses:
1. They can carry a lot of people
2. People can get on and off along the way
12 buses on a route that's almost 10 miles long does not seem like very many buses.
When you consider that those 12 buses are ON AVERAGE carrying ~270 people a day (~440k trips and about 1,600 buses in service) where the average personal vehicle has 1.25, that's the equivalent of about 2,600 fewer vehicles a day on GA ave. That's a good amount fewer vehicles.
Oh, and the bus riders are 81% minority. And 55% zero car households. So it's also an accessibility thing for lower income folks.
But they're Maryland commuters and I thought we hated Maryland commuters.
They're obviously not all Maryland commuters. And even if every single one of them were Maryland commuters, they would be Maryland commuters on buses, which is better for DC residents than Maryland commuters in cars.
Some posters really are having difficulty with the concept that bus riders can get on and off the bus anywhere along the route.
The same can obviously be said about drivers so that's pretty ironic.
What I'm having difficulty with is the idea that we should punish DC residents to benefit MD commuters. It's about the hypocrisy and situational ethics.
How does a bus lane punish DC residents?
Georgia Avenue is a major thoroughfare in this city. A gazillion people drive on it every day. This plan would create total gridlock on Georgia Avenue, which drivers would avoid by taking every side street in Ward 4, streets that were never intended to accommodate that much traffic.
This, again?
Yes, it's a major thoroughfare, which is exactly why it needs bus lanes, which will improve mobility for people.
Metrobus is hardly an improvement in mobility - with or without dedicated bus lanes.
It certainly isn't for people who refuse to take it. For people who do take it, or at least don't refuse to take it, it absolutely is an improvement in mobility. Furthermore, even if you refuse to take it, you should want everybody else to take it. More people on the bus means fewer people in their cars, getting in the way of you in your car.
Except that by reducing throughput in half to accommodate this it is a net negative. A net negative that harms DC residents the most in order to primarily benefit MD commuters.
Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the title of this entire post- isn't "destroying traffic" the goal? Do we want traffic?
For some reason people think replacing POV traffic, which has the highest fatality rate, with bus traffic, which has one of the lowest fatality rates, will somehow lead to an increase in fatalities because drivers will seek out kids on side-streets to run over in their rage and this is a good reason to maintain the status quo.
Except you're not actually replacing it and nobody "seeks out kids on side streets to run over in their rage".
I would have thought by now that you would have realized that your constant lies and attempts at demonization have backfired. But I guess not.
Eh. You're the one who's demonizing drivers, by asserting that they will drive dangerously through side streets and kill children.
You can tell the people in favor of this plan do not really care about safety, and that this plan is really just about spiting drivers, because this plan will *obviously* put a lot of children in danger by redirecting traffic from Georgia Avenue to the quiet streets of Ward 4, and advocates of this absurd plan are suddenly trivializing people's concerns about safety.
Let's face it. They wouldn't mind if some kids get killed. They'll just use that to further their arguments to clamp down on driving.
That’s a despicable thing to write.
Have you not been reading this thread? Some of the folks here will be doing cartwheels when this DDOT proposal inevitably gets children killed.
Your presumptions are so idiotic that I don’t know where to start.
Please show up to a public meeting and tell everyone that advocates of bus lanes celebrate the deaths of children.
Also give us a heads up where and when you plan to do this so that we can bear witness to what subsequently unfolds
There's lots of posters here saying if they don't want their kids killed as a result of this plan, then we have to agree to their plans to cripple traffic on every street surrounding Georgia Avenue. Sounds like you idiots are taking children hostage.
Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.
the plan is to improve bus transit …
Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...
It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.
Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.
Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.
Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.
Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.
You sound slow, so we'll break it down:
1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive 2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.
These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.
Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.
That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.
But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.
"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.
Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.
Those "very few" buses still manage to move some 20,000 people a day you realize, right? That's half the users on GA. With a bus lane, they still would only get 1/3 of the road surface.
This is a completely different situation than the bike lanes on CT, which you also oppose, which had a hypothetical daily use in the hundreds. GA has 20,000 people right now stuck in those never ending lines of cars. A bus lane would cut tens of thousands of commutes down, and potentially entice people out of their cars into the faster buses.
Thinking more broadly, emergency vehicles would be able to get to emergencies much faster using these bus lanes. It would also lead to less traffic and parking demand downtown. Seems like an absolute slam dunk.
Pfft. I'd be surprised if 10 percent of people on Georgia are on the bus.
Who needs data when you can just make stuff up based on what you see through your windshield while driving?
Look at the WMATA web site. There's a bus tracker! You can see how many buses are currently on Georgia Avenue! Spoiler alert: There's very few.
It's 9:49 am, I just looked at the 70 bus, and there are 12 of them on the route.
Here are some fun facts about buses:
1. They can carry a lot of people
2. People can get on and off along the way
12 buses on a route that's almost 10 miles long does not seem like very many buses.
When you consider that those 12 buses are ON AVERAGE carrying ~270 people a day (~440k trips and about 1,600 buses in service) where the average personal vehicle has 1.25, that's the equivalent of about 2,600 fewer vehicles a day on GA ave. That's a good amount fewer vehicles.
Oh, and the bus riders are 81% minority. And 55% zero car households. So it's also an accessibility thing for lower income folks.
But they're Maryland commuters and I thought we hated Maryland commuters.
They're obviously not all Maryland commuters. And even if every single one of them were Maryland commuters, they would be Maryland commuters on buses, which is better for DC residents than Maryland commuters in cars.
Some posters really are having difficulty with the concept that bus riders can get on and off the bus anywhere along the route.
The same can obviously be said about drivers so that's pretty ironic.
What I'm having difficulty with is the idea that we should punish DC residents to benefit MD commuters. It's about the hypocrisy and situational ethics.
How does a bus lane punish DC residents?
Georgia Avenue is a major thoroughfare in this city. A gazillion people drive on it every day. This plan would create total gridlock on Georgia Avenue, which drivers would avoid by taking every side street in Ward 4, streets that were never intended to accommodate that much traffic.
This, again?
Yes, it's a major thoroughfare, which is exactly why it needs bus lanes, which will improve mobility for people.
Metrobus is hardly an improvement in mobility - with or without dedicated bus lanes.
It certainly isn't for people who refuse to take it. For people who do take it, or at least don't refuse to take it, it absolutely is an improvement in mobility. Furthermore, even if you refuse to take it, you should want everybody else to take it. More people on the bus means fewer people in their cars, getting in the way of you in your car.
Except that by reducing throughput in half to accommodate this it is a net negative. A net negative that harms DC residents the most in order to primarily benefit MD commuters.
That's silly, PP. The bus lane will increase throughput. Specifically, throughput of people.
Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.
the plan is to improve bus transit …
Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...
It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.
Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.
Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.
Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.
Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.
You sound slow, so we'll break it down:
1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive 2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.
These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.
Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.
That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.
But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.
"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.
Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.
Those "very few" buses still manage to move some 20,000 people a day you realize, right? That's half the users on GA. With a bus lane, they still would only get 1/3 of the road surface.
This is a completely different situation than the bike lanes on CT, which you also oppose, which had a hypothetical daily use in the hundreds. GA has 20,000 people right now stuck in those never ending lines of cars. A bus lane would cut tens of thousands of commutes down, and potentially entice people out of their cars into the faster buses.
Thinking more broadly, emergency vehicles would be able to get to emergencies much faster using these bus lanes. It would also lead to less traffic and parking demand downtown. Seems like an absolute slam dunk.
Pfft. I'd be surprised if 10 percent of people on Georgia are on the bus.
Who needs data when you can just make stuff up based on what you see through your windshield while driving?
Look at the WMATA web site. There's a bus tracker! You can see how many buses are currently on Georgia Avenue! Spoiler alert: There's very few.
It's 9:49 am, I just looked at the 70 bus, and there are 12 of them on the route.
Here are some fun facts about buses:
1. They can carry a lot of people
2. People can get on and off along the way
12 buses on a route that's almost 10 miles long does not seem like very many buses.
When you consider that those 12 buses are ON AVERAGE carrying ~270 people a day (~440k trips and about 1,600 buses in service) where the average personal vehicle has 1.25, that's the equivalent of about 2,600 fewer vehicles a day on GA ave. That's a good amount fewer vehicles.
Oh, and the bus riders are 81% minority. And 55% zero car households. So it's also an accessibility thing for lower income folks.
But they're Maryland commuters and I thought we hated Maryland commuters.
They're obviously not all Maryland commuters. And even if every single one of them were Maryland commuters, they would be Maryland commuters on buses, which is better for DC residents than Maryland commuters in cars.
Some posters really are having difficulty with the concept that bus riders can get on and off the bus anywhere along the route.
The same can obviously be said about drivers so that's pretty ironic.
What I'm having difficulty with is the idea that we should punish DC residents to benefit MD commuters. It's about the hypocrisy and situational ethics.
How does a bus lane punish DC residents?
Georgia Avenue is a major thoroughfare in this city. A gazillion people drive on it every day. This plan would create total gridlock on Georgia Avenue, which drivers would avoid by taking every side street in Ward 4, streets that were never intended to accommodate that much traffic.
This, again?
Yes, it's a major thoroughfare, which is exactly why it needs bus lanes, which will improve mobility for people.
Metrobus is hardly an improvement in mobility - with or without dedicated bus lanes.
It certainly isn't for people who refuse to take it. For people who do take it, or at least don't refuse to take it, it absolutely is an improvement in mobility. Furthermore, even if you refuse to take it, you should want everybody else to take it. More people on the bus means fewer people in their cars, getting in the way of you in your car.
I think the ideologues who run DDOT are not capable of wrapping their heads around the fact that the public does not want what they are selling. If people wanted to ride the bus, they'd already be on the bus. No one is saying "I'd ride the bus if they did X." It's the same thing with bike lanes. The city keeps building this stuff that the public didn't ask for and won't use.
Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.
the plan is to improve bus transit …
Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...
It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.
Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.
Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.
Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.
Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.
You sound slow, so we'll break it down:
1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive 2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.
These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.
Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.
That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.
But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.
"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.
Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.
Those "very few" buses still manage to move some 20,000 people a day you realize, right? That's half the users on GA. With a bus lane, they still would only get 1/3 of the road surface.
This is a completely different situation than the bike lanes on CT, which you also oppose, which had a hypothetical daily use in the hundreds. GA has 20,000 people right now stuck in those never ending lines of cars. A bus lane would cut tens of thousands of commutes down, and potentially entice people out of their cars into the faster buses.
Thinking more broadly, emergency vehicles would be able to get to emergencies much faster using these bus lanes. It would also lead to less traffic and parking demand downtown. Seems like an absolute slam dunk.
Pfft. I'd be surprised if 10 percent of people on Georgia are on the bus.
Who needs data when you can just make stuff up based on what you see through your windshield while driving?
Look at the WMATA web site. There's a bus tracker! You can see how many buses are currently on Georgia Avenue! Spoiler alert: There's very few.
It's 9:49 am, I just looked at the 70 bus, and there are 12 of them on the route.
Here are some fun facts about buses:
1. They can carry a lot of people
2. People can get on and off along the way
12 buses on a route that's almost 10 miles long does not seem like very many buses.
When you consider that those 12 buses are ON AVERAGE carrying ~270 people a day (~440k trips and about 1,600 buses in service) where the average personal vehicle has 1.25, that's the equivalent of about 2,600 fewer vehicles a day on GA ave. That's a good amount fewer vehicles.
Oh, and the bus riders are 81% minority. And 55% zero car households. So it's also an accessibility thing for lower income folks.
But they're Maryland commuters and I thought we hated Maryland commuters.
They're obviously not all Maryland commuters. And even if every single one of them were Maryland commuters, they would be Maryland commuters on buses, which is better for DC residents than Maryland commuters in cars.
Some posters really are having difficulty with the concept that bus riders can get on and off the bus anywhere along the route.
The same can obviously be said about drivers so that's pretty ironic.
What I'm having difficulty with is the idea that we should punish DC residents to benefit MD commuters. It's about the hypocrisy and situational ethics.
How does a bus lane punish DC residents?
Georgia Avenue is a major thoroughfare in this city. A gazillion people drive on it every day. This plan would create total gridlock on Georgia Avenue, which drivers would avoid by taking every side street in Ward 4, streets that were never intended to accommodate that much traffic.
This, again?
Yes, it's a major thoroughfare, which is exactly why it needs bus lanes, which will improve mobility for people.
Metrobus is hardly an improvement in mobility - with or without dedicated bus lanes.
It certainly isn't for people who refuse to take it. For people who do take it, or at least don't refuse to take it, it absolutely is an improvement in mobility. Furthermore, even if you refuse to take it, you should want everybody else to take it. More people on the bus means fewer people in their cars, getting in the way of you in your car.
Except that by reducing throughput in half to accommodate this it is a net negative. A net negative that harms DC residents the most in order to primarily benefit MD commuters.
That's silly, PP. The bus lane will increase throughput. Specifically, throughput of people.
We already have 10 miles of bus only lanes in this city. Did they increase ridership? Show us the numbers.
Anonymous wrote:DC needs to stop pretending it’s some enormous city and accept the fact that it’s a large car-centric town in a car-centric metropolitan area which is dominated by the suburbs.
Even assuming this "fact" were true (which it isn't), there would be no reason it had to stay that way forevermore.
NP. Sorry to burst your bubble but the PP is right and the region was gotten even more car-centric since COVID. Sure, DC can try to force people to change commuting preferences by restricting car capacity on roads but - in the long term - the only thing that’s going to do is drive even more jobs into safer and more car convenient locations in the suburbs.
We live in the city but spend more and more time in the suburbs going to restaurants and whatnot because it's easier to get there and park than it is to go downtown or a lot of other places in the city.
Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.
the plan is to improve bus transit …
Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...
It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.
Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.
Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.
Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.
Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.
You sound slow, so we'll break it down:
1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive 2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.
These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.
Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.
That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.
But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.
"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.
Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.
Those "very few" buses still manage to move some 20,000 people a day you realize, right? That's half the users on GA. With a bus lane, they still would only get 1/3 of the road surface.
This is a completely different situation than the bike lanes on CT, which you also oppose, which had a hypothetical daily use in the hundreds. GA has 20,000 people right now stuck in those never ending lines of cars. A bus lane would cut tens of thousands of commutes down, and potentially entice people out of their cars into the faster buses.
Thinking more broadly, emergency vehicles would be able to get to emergencies much faster using these bus lanes. It would also lead to less traffic and parking demand downtown. Seems like an absolute slam dunk.
Pfft. I'd be surprised if 10 percent of people on Georgia are on the bus.
Who needs data when you can just make stuff up based on what you see through your windshield while driving?
Look at the WMATA web site. There's a bus tracker! You can see how many buses are currently on Georgia Avenue! Spoiler alert: There's very few.
It's 9:49 am, I just looked at the 70 bus, and there are 12 of them on the route.
Here are some fun facts about buses:
1. They can carry a lot of people
2. People can get on and off along the way
12 buses on a route that's almost 10 miles long does not seem like very many buses.
When you consider that those 12 buses are ON AVERAGE carrying ~270 people a day (~440k trips and about 1,600 buses in service) where the average personal vehicle has 1.25, that's the equivalent of about 2,600 fewer vehicles a day on GA ave. That's a good amount fewer vehicles.
Oh, and the bus riders are 81% minority. And 55% zero car households. So it's also an accessibility thing for lower income folks.
But they're Maryland commuters and I thought we hated Maryland commuters.
They're obviously not all Maryland commuters. And even if every single one of them were Maryland commuters, they would be Maryland commuters on buses, which is better for DC residents than Maryland commuters in cars.
Some posters really are having difficulty with the concept that bus riders can get on and off the bus anywhere along the route.
The same can obviously be said about drivers so that's pretty ironic.
What I'm having difficulty with is the idea that we should punish DC residents to benefit MD commuters. It's about the hypocrisy and situational ethics.
How does a bus lane punish DC residents?
Georgia Avenue is a major thoroughfare in this city. A gazillion people drive on it every day. This plan would create total gridlock on Georgia Avenue, which drivers would avoid by taking every side street in Ward 4, streets that were never intended to accommodate that much traffic.
This, again?
Yes, it's a major thoroughfare, which is exactly why it needs bus lanes, which will improve mobility for people.
Metrobus is hardly an improvement in mobility - with or without dedicated bus lanes.
It certainly isn't for people who refuse to take it. For people who do take it, or at least don't refuse to take it, it absolutely is an improvement in mobility. Furthermore, even if you refuse to take it, you should want everybody else to take it. More people on the bus means fewer people in their cars, getting in the way of you in your car.
Except that by reducing throughput in half to accommodate this it is a net negative. A net negative that harms DC residents the most in order to primarily benefit MD commuters.
That's silly, PP. The bus lane will increase throughput. Specifically, throughput of people.
No it won't. Do the math yourself. The only way that can possibly true is if bus only lanes increase bus ridership by over 50%. Even the most ardent supporter of buses doesn't claim that.
Anonymous wrote:DC needs to stop pretending it’s some enormous city and accept the fact that it’s a large car-centric town in a car-centric metropolitan area which is dominated by the suburbs.
Even assuming this "fact" were true (which it isn't), there would be no reason it had to stay that way forevermore.
NP. Sorry to burst your bubble but the PP is right and the region was gotten even more car-centric since COVID. Sure, DC can try to force people to change commuting preferences by restricting car capacity on roads but - in the long term - the only thing that’s going to do is drive even more jobs into safer and more car convenient locations in the suburbs.
We live in the city but spend more and more time in the suburbs going to restaurants and whatnot because it's easier to get there and park than it is to go downtown or a lot of other places in the city.
We're doing the same thing. It's easier to meet up with people in VA or MD than downtown.
Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.
the plan is to improve bus transit …
Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...
It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.
Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.
Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.
Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.
Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.
You sound slow, so we'll break it down:
1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive 2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.
These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.
Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.
That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.
But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.
"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.
Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.
Those "very few" buses still manage to move some 20,000 people a day you realize, right? That's half the users on GA. With a bus lane, they still would only get 1/3 of the road surface.
This is a completely different situation than the bike lanes on CT, which you also oppose, which had a hypothetical daily use in the hundreds. GA has 20,000 people right now stuck in those never ending lines of cars. A bus lane would cut tens of thousands of commutes down, and potentially entice people out of their cars into the faster buses.
Thinking more broadly, emergency vehicles would be able to get to emergencies much faster using these bus lanes. It would also lead to less traffic and parking demand downtown. Seems like an absolute slam dunk.
Pfft. I'd be surprised if 10 percent of people on Georgia are on the bus.
Who needs data when you can just make stuff up based on what you see through your windshield while driving?
Look at the WMATA web site. There's a bus tracker! You can see how many buses are currently on Georgia Avenue! Spoiler alert: There's very few.
It's 9:49 am, I just looked at the 70 bus, and there are 12 of them on the route.
Here are some fun facts about buses:
1. They can carry a lot of people
2. People can get on and off along the way
12 buses on a route that's almost 10 miles long does not seem like very many buses.
When you consider that those 12 buses are ON AVERAGE carrying ~270 people a day (~440k trips and about 1,600 buses in service) where the average personal vehicle has 1.25, that's the equivalent of about 2,600 fewer vehicles a day on GA ave. That's a good amount fewer vehicles.
Oh, and the bus riders are 81% minority. And 55% zero car households. So it's also an accessibility thing for lower income folks.
But they're Maryland commuters and I thought we hated Maryland commuters.
They're obviously not all Maryland commuters. And even if every single one of them were Maryland commuters, they would be Maryland commuters on buses, which is better for DC residents than Maryland commuters in cars.
Some posters really are having difficulty with the concept that bus riders can get on and off the bus anywhere along the route.
The same can obviously be said about drivers so that's pretty ironic.
What I'm having difficulty with is the idea that we should punish DC residents to benefit MD commuters. It's about the hypocrisy and situational ethics.
How does a bus lane punish DC residents?
Georgia Avenue is a major thoroughfare in this city. A gazillion people drive on it every day. This plan would create total gridlock on Georgia Avenue, which drivers would avoid by taking every side street in Ward 4, streets that were never intended to accommodate that much traffic.
This, again?
Yes, it's a major thoroughfare, which is exactly why it needs bus lanes, which will improve mobility for people.
Metrobus is hardly an improvement in mobility - with or without dedicated bus lanes.
It certainly isn't for people who refuse to take it. For people who do take it, or at least don't refuse to take it, it absolutely is an improvement in mobility. Furthermore, even if you refuse to take it, you should want everybody else to take it. More people on the bus means fewer people in their cars, getting in the way of you in your car.
Except that by reducing throughput in half to accommodate this it is a net negative. A net negative that harms DC residents the most in order to primarily benefit MD commuters.
That's silly, PP. The bus lane will increase throughput. Specifically, throughput of people.
We already have 10 miles of bus only lanes in this city. Did they increase ridership? Show us the numbers.
Are you the same person that refuses to believe the bus ridership numbers on this corridor? Why would you believe experimental data if you don't believe simple ridership data?
Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.
the plan is to improve bus transit …
Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...
It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.
Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.
Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.
Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.
Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.
You sound slow, so we'll break it down:
1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive 2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.
These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.
Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.
That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.
But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.
"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.
Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.
Those "very few" buses still manage to move some 20,000 people a day you realize, right? That's half the users on GA. With a bus lane, they still would only get 1/3 of the road surface.
This is a completely different situation than the bike lanes on CT, which you also oppose, which had a hypothetical daily use in the hundreds. GA has 20,000 people right now stuck in those never ending lines of cars. A bus lane would cut tens of thousands of commutes down, and potentially entice people out of their cars into the faster buses.
Thinking more broadly, emergency vehicles would be able to get to emergencies much faster using these bus lanes. It would also lead to less traffic and parking demand downtown. Seems like an absolute slam dunk.
Pfft. I'd be surprised if 10 percent of people on Georgia are on the bus.
Who needs data when you can just make stuff up based on what you see through your windshield while driving?
Look at the WMATA web site. There's a bus tracker! You can see how many buses are currently on Georgia Avenue! Spoiler alert: There's very few.
It's 9:49 am, I just looked at the 70 bus, and there are 12 of them on the route.
Here are some fun facts about buses:
1. They can carry a lot of people
2. People can get on and off along the way
12 buses on a route that's almost 10 miles long does not seem like very many buses.
When you consider that those 12 buses are ON AVERAGE carrying ~270 people a day (~440k trips and about 1,600 buses in service) where the average personal vehicle has 1.25, that's the equivalent of about 2,600 fewer vehicles a day on GA ave. That's a good amount fewer vehicles.
Oh, and the bus riders are 81% minority. And 55% zero car households. So it's also an accessibility thing for lower income folks.
But they're Maryland commuters and I thought we hated Maryland commuters.
They're obviously not all Maryland commuters. And even if every single one of them were Maryland commuters, they would be Maryland commuters on buses, which is better for DC residents than Maryland commuters in cars.
Some posters really are having difficulty with the concept that bus riders can get on and off the bus anywhere along the route.
The same can obviously be said about drivers so that's pretty ironic.
What I'm having difficulty with is the idea that we should punish DC residents to benefit MD commuters. It's about the hypocrisy and situational ethics.
How does a bus lane punish DC residents?
Georgia Avenue is a major thoroughfare in this city. A gazillion people drive on it every day. This plan would create total gridlock on Georgia Avenue, which drivers would avoid by taking every side street in Ward 4, streets that were never intended to accommodate that much traffic.
This, again?
Yes, it's a major thoroughfare, which is exactly why it needs bus lanes, which will improve mobility for people.
Metrobus is hardly an improvement in mobility - with or without dedicated bus lanes.
It certainly isn't for people who refuse to take it. For people who do take it, or at least don't refuse to take it, it absolutely is an improvement in mobility. Furthermore, even if you refuse to take it, you should want everybody else to take it. More people on the bus means fewer people in their cars, getting in the way of you in your car.
Except that by reducing throughput in half to accommodate this it is a net negative. A net negative that harms DC residents the most in order to primarily benefit MD commuters.
sweetie half the people using Georgia Ave are taking the bus …
Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.
the plan is to improve bus transit …
Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...
It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.
Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.
Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.
Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.
Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.
You sound slow, so we'll break it down:
1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive 2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.
These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.
Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.
That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.
But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.
"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.
Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.
Those "very few" buses still manage to move some 20,000 people a day you realize, right? That's half the users on GA. With a bus lane, they still would only get 1/3 of the road surface.
This is a completely different situation than the bike lanes on CT, which you also oppose, which had a hypothetical daily use in the hundreds. GA has 20,000 people right now stuck in those never ending lines of cars. A bus lane would cut tens of thousands of commutes down, and potentially entice people out of their cars into the faster buses.
Thinking more broadly, emergency vehicles would be able to get to emergencies much faster using these bus lanes. It would also lead to less traffic and parking demand downtown. Seems like an absolute slam dunk.
Pfft. I'd be surprised if 10 percent of people on Georgia are on the bus.
Who needs data when you can just make stuff up based on what you see through your windshield while driving?
Look at the WMATA web site. There's a bus tracker! You can see how many buses are currently on Georgia Avenue! Spoiler alert: There's very few.
It's 9:49 am, I just looked at the 70 bus, and there are 12 of them on the route.
Here are some fun facts about buses:
1. They can carry a lot of people
2. People can get on and off along the way
12 buses on a route that's almost 10 miles long does not seem like very many buses.
When you consider that those 12 buses are ON AVERAGE carrying ~270 people a day (~440k trips and about 1,600 buses in service) where the average personal vehicle has 1.25, that's the equivalent of about 2,600 fewer vehicles a day on GA ave. That's a good amount fewer vehicles.
Oh, and the bus riders are 81% minority. And 55% zero car households. So it's also an accessibility thing for lower income folks.
But they're Maryland commuters and I thought we hated Maryland commuters.
They're obviously not all Maryland commuters. And even if every single one of them were Maryland commuters, they would be Maryland commuters on buses, which is better for DC residents than Maryland commuters in cars.
Some posters really are having difficulty with the concept that bus riders can get on and off the bus anywhere along the route.
The same can obviously be said about drivers so that's pretty ironic.
What I'm having difficulty with is the idea that we should punish DC residents to benefit MD commuters. It's about the hypocrisy and situational ethics.
How does a bus lane punish DC residents?
Georgia Avenue is a major thoroughfare in this city. A gazillion people drive on it every day. This plan would create total gridlock on Georgia Avenue, which drivers would avoid by taking every side street in Ward 4, streets that were never intended to accommodate that much traffic.
This, again?
Yes, it's a major thoroughfare, which is exactly why it needs bus lanes, which will improve mobility for people.
Metrobus is hardly an improvement in mobility - with or without dedicated bus lanes.
It certainly isn't for people who refuse to take it. For people who do take it, or at least don't refuse to take it, it absolutely is an improvement in mobility. Furthermore, even if you refuse to take it, you should want everybody else to take it. More people on the bus means fewer people in their cars, getting in the way of you in your car.
Except that by reducing throughput in half to accommodate this it is a net negative. A net negative that harms DC residents the most in order to primarily benefit MD commuters.
sweetie half the people using Georgia Ave are taking the bus …
Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.
the plan is to improve bus transit …
Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...
It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.
Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.
Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.
Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.
Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.
You sound slow, so we'll break it down:
1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive 2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.
These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.
Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.
That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.
But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.
"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.
Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.
Those "very few" buses still manage to move some 20,000 people a day you realize, right? That's half the users on GA. With a bus lane, they still would only get 1/3 of the road surface.
This is a completely different situation than the bike lanes on CT, which you also oppose, which had a hypothetical daily use in the hundreds. GA has 20,000 people right now stuck in those never ending lines of cars. A bus lane would cut tens of thousands of commutes down, and potentially entice people out of their cars into the faster buses.
Thinking more broadly, emergency vehicles would be able to get to emergencies much faster using these bus lanes. It would also lead to less traffic and parking demand downtown. Seems like an absolute slam dunk.
Pfft. I'd be surprised if 10 percent of people on Georgia are on the bus.
Who needs data when you can just make stuff up based on what you see through your windshield while driving?
Look at the WMATA web site. There's a bus tracker! You can see how many buses are currently on Georgia Avenue! Spoiler alert: There's very few.
It's 9:49 am, I just looked at the 70 bus, and there are 12 of them on the route.
Here are some fun facts about buses:
1. They can carry a lot of people
2. People can get on and off along the way
12 buses on a route that's almost 10 miles long does not seem like very many buses.
When you consider that those 12 buses are ON AVERAGE carrying ~270 people a day (~440k trips and about 1,600 buses in service) where the average personal vehicle has 1.25, that's the equivalent of about 2,600 fewer vehicles a day on GA ave. That's a good amount fewer vehicles.
Oh, and the bus riders are 81% minority. And 55% zero car households. So it's also an accessibility thing for lower income folks.
But they're Maryland commuters and I thought we hated Maryland commuters.
They're obviously not all Maryland commuters. And even if every single one of them were Maryland commuters, they would be Maryland commuters on buses, which is better for DC residents than Maryland commuters in cars.
Some posters really are having difficulty with the concept that bus riders can get on and off the bus anywhere along the route.
The same can obviously be said about drivers so that's pretty ironic.
What I'm having difficulty with is the idea that we should punish DC residents to benefit MD commuters. It's about the hypocrisy and situational ethics.
How does a bus lane punish DC residents?
Georgia Avenue is a major thoroughfare in this city. A gazillion people drive on it every day. This plan would create total gridlock on Georgia Avenue, which drivers would avoid by taking every side street in Ward 4, streets that were never intended to accommodate that much traffic.
This, again?
Yes, it's a major thoroughfare, which is exactly why it needs bus lanes, which will improve mobility for people.
Metrobus is hardly an improvement in mobility - with or without dedicated bus lanes.
It certainly isn't for people who refuse to take it. For people who do take it, or at least don't refuse to take it, it absolutely is an improvement in mobility. Furthermore, even if you refuse to take it, you should want everybody else to take it. More people on the bus means fewer people in their cars, getting in the way of you in your car.
Except that by reducing throughput in half to accommodate this it is a net negative. A net negative that harms DC residents the most in order to primarily benefit MD commuters.
That's silly, PP. The bus lane will increase throughput. Specifically, throughput of people.
No it won't. Do the math yourself. The only way that can possibly true is if bus only lanes increase bus ridership by over 50%. Even the most ardent supporter of buses doesn't claim that.
Its not lane capacity that causes congestion, but intersection capacity. A standard lane should handle 1,800 cars an hour roughly. Georgia gets about 18,000 cars a day in both directions. There is more than plenty of lane for all current cars, but intersections restrict how many vehicles can access the lanes.
If you look at the project design, you can see that intersection capacity will remain largely the same with left turn lanes, and cars being able to use the bus lane to turn right. So even with 0 mode shift, you're not going to see much worse traffic Armageddon than usual. With a single through lane, you're also going to get fewer conflicts from lane changing and therefore fewer collisions. Emergency vehicles will also be able to breeze down the bus lane instead of causing all sorts of craziness.
And of course, once buses become the faster option you'll see mode shift. It wouldn't take much to end up with a net improvement for drivers as well. This has consistently been the experience in other cities.
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