Airplane noise concerns overblown?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to ask, but can someone other than the clearly very-bothered individual who makes all of the airplane noise posts on this forum please chip in their perspectives on airplane noise in the Cabin John, Potomac, Glen Echo, Palisades neighborhoods? I was over there today and it didn't seem that bad.

We live in one of those hoods and it does not bother us.

That said local communities were very proactive in lobbying to get better enforcement of existing laws and to reduce air traffic.

Air traffic increased. This is the highest it has ever been.

The airlines succeeded in adding several long haul flights as an exception to the perimeter rule.

Efforts to create a better balance between north flow and south flow operations were stifled by a small minority.

Proactive does not mean successful.

Who are the people to write emails to in order for the community to demand action here? It seems like the current people representing the northflow communities are not doing their job.

This! I also would like to know.

This was posted fairly recently. It is a list of community representatives from DC, Fairfax, PG, Arlington and Montgomery. They are responsible for all the recent changes in flight paths.

https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2024-11/Reagan%20National_Noise%20Working%20Group_Voting%20Members_Nov042024.pdf

Thanks a lot. I just wrote our three MoCo reps an email about the increase in northflow operations. I hope they will respond.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm so sick of working until 10 pm, then being kept awake by air traffic including helicopters, and then awakened again at 6 am.

I'm ready to join a letter-writing brigade or lead petitions. I'm ready to become a one-issue voter over this. They need a different solution, including just limiting the number of flights allowed to take off and land at DCA.

--Exhausted all the time in Bethesda

Most of Bethesda has been impacted negatively by the recent changes in flight paths pushed through without any community input by the people on the DCA Noise Working Group.

All the noise abatement work in MoCo over the last 5 years was focused solely on one small area of Potomac and C.J. because all four MoCo seats on the DCA Working Group were filled by people from that area. They succeeded in eliminating all the departures and a large number of arrivals from Potomac by pushing departures south and closer to Bethesda neighborhoods south east of Glen Echo and diverting many arrivals to the Seven Locks Road corridor and the MacArthur Road corridor.

They don't appear to have any interest for now in bringing relief to other communities in MoCo by advocating for a better balance between southflow and northflow operations because it is not benefiting their community.

The FAA uses northflow as a default procedure, often irrespective of the direction of the winds. Hence a steady flow of jets taking off in the same direction to the North day after day. In the past, community members and other representatives on the DCA Working Group tried to address this problem with the FAA, but MoCo reps get a fit every time somebody mentions it.

So, reach out to your County representatives on the DCA Community Working Group and tell them you want them to advocate for your neighborhood by asking the FAA to create a better balance between southflow and northflow operations. It is unlikely you will get a response but if you do, post it here. There are two County officials on that committee and both of them are theoretically supposed to work for all communities in Montgomery County. If you do not get a response, contact the County Council and the Office of Marc Elrich and let them know.

The DCA Community Working Group is meeting with the FAA at the end of January.

Above may be largely true to some degree but I don’t think it is just because “four MoCo seats on the DCA Working Group were filled by people from that area.” Also before the pandemic, air traffic had been rerouted along the river so river communities were disproportionately impacted by increased air traffic often flying lower than before. Many CJ and Glen Echo residents were involved in the fight to reduce the sudden dramatic rise in air traffic

Cabin John citizen association has been working on this issue for many years. They voted to join the Montgomery County Quiet Skies Coalition in 2017. However, a later update in 2021 showed that many of their suggestions were not agreed upon by FAA - so I doubt that it is a matter of the DCA Working Group not caring about the well being of other nearby communities.

https://cabinjohn.org/index.php/2017/02/23/take-action-against-excessive-airplane-noise/

Residents were encouraged to file complaints using the Metropolitan Washington Airport Authority’s (MWAA) DCA Noise Complaint Form. And to Write letters supporting the Reagan National Community Noise Working Group’s 6-point Plan The community representatives of the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority. Many local residents got involved.

Specifically, CJ residents asked the FAA to
- move navigation waypoints away from communities
- increase departure altitudes
- implement a runway rotation plan to scatter departure noise more equitably
- review approach procedures to determine changes necessary to reduce noise
- conduct area-wide noise assessment studies
- implement a 24/7 Fly Quiet Program

These measures were not just to help CJ and river communities but all impacted communities.

Although this battle has escalated in recent years, it is not new.
WoPo wrote an article on CJ residents fighting airplane noice nearly 50 years ago
https://wapo.st/40cK8PY

Thank you for agreeing with the facts. The most important points remain:

1. All the changes in Montgomery County over the last 4 years were pushed through by the DCA Noise Working Group without any community input. Requests for outreach to the affected communities were ignored. Here's an example:

When the MoCo reps on the Working Group asked the FAA to move the departures closer to the densely populated communities in Bethesda, they failed to notify residents that the FAA had opened a comment period specifically for Montgomery County in 2020 to solicit feedback on the proposed change. Nobody knew of the proposed change or about the comment period so no feedback was received. The flight path was shifted from compatible land in Virginia towards the densely populated communities of Bethesda in 2021. The goal was to move the departures away from Potomac.

2. There is one viable solution for Bethesda and other communities that is currently not being considered because the MoCo members of the DCA Working Group are sabotaging the efforts. The communities north of the airport agreed that finding a better balance between departures and arrivals is their priority. This is from the list of priorities submitted to the FAA back in 2019:
"North flow/South flow split. The subcommittee looks forward to continuing to engage with the FAA on this topic and reviewing the forthcoming written FAA statement outlining operational considerations that impact flow decisions and North-South departure data with wind direction and velocity since 2015."

It very much matters what communities are represented on the DCA Working Group which is why every other jurisdiction has equal representation, except for MoCo and we are seeing the results of that. There was never any formal process for nominations in MoCo. And by the way the Quiet Skies Coalition and those on the Working Group are the same people.

The Working Group did not try to move the waypoints away from MoCo communities as you claim, but quite the opposite, with the exception of Potomac. The new procedure for departures in 2021 placed a new waypoint called RGiii directly over Glen Echo. Nobody in Glen Echo was notified. The MoCo reps on the Working Group also asked the FAA to move the final decent procedure for arriving aircraft from Potomac to Glen Echo (waypoint Daric) despite strong objections from those who knew what was going on. It was the FAA that saved Glen Echo and the surrounding area by responding that the location of the waypoint was not ideal for the new procedure and consequently moved it slightly west.

You mentioned efforts to increase the altitude. Strangely those efforts were focused only on the easterly flight path that goes over Cabin John. There was never any discussion about higher altitudes for the westerly flight path that was pushed towards Bethesda where airplanes are very low and loud because of the early turn. It matters who sits on the Working Group.

The link that you submitted is from 2017. You are talking about a different era. The DCA working group was very different then with different people and therefore different priorities. Bethesda was very involved with the Working Group in response to the FAA shifting its flight paths towards the Potomac River and Bethesda in 2016. The people who are currently representing MoCo on the Working Group disregarded all of it and pushed those flight paths even closer to Bethesda (!) without any community input while eliminating air traffic in their own neighborhood. It is unbelievable.

You sound very knowledgeable about the situation.

However, I would encourage you to talk to the CJ reps who are on the committee as they are genuine and well meaning people.

The update the community got in 2021 was that FAA was not open to discussing various proposed changes from two of three directions. I would not assume they are the ones blocking community inputs. I know that local residents were encouraged to request higher altitudes for all departing planes not just ones flying over CJ.

I agree that the working groups needs representation from all impacted MC communities.

The FAA was not open to discussing many things. For years they said "dispersal was non-negotiable". Yet, it happened. All the MoCo taxpayers paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for the consultants to help one small area in Potomac move flights to other areas. When residents from those other areas complained, the internal response on the Working group was "it is to be expected, it is part of the process".

It is time to move on to other areas in Montgomery County. There is one solution that can help all the communities north of the airport, with the exception of Potomac and Cabin John. We need a better balance between south flow and north flow operations. Yet, MoCo reps on the DCA Working Group are making sure those discussions do not happen.

Which well-meaning person from Cabin John do you suggest MoCo residents turn to? The one who shut down without any notice the listserv that MoCo residents used for discussing airplane noise, conveniently right before the changes started occurring? Or the one that tells Bethesda residents that they are to blame for buying a house closer to the airport along the river and therefore there is nothing that can be done for them about the noise?

I can’t speak to your allegations as I did not attend the meetings. The last comment makes no sense since CJ is closer to the river than Bethesda. It is ridiculous if they did say that. I am disappointed to hear about shutting down of list serve to discuss airplane noise and had not heard about that.

I can only speak to updates CJ residents received and the fact that we were encouraged to lobby for solutions that would help all impacted communities not just CJ.

As I said, I agree that the working committee needs representation from all impacted communities.

How does one become a member in the committee? I would be willing to dedicate a significant amount of my free time to increase awareness about this issue and unite people in the affected communities to do something.

Is the MoCo Quiet Skies organization actually being effective? I sent them a mail once asking how I could help and never heard back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to ask, but can someone other than the clearly very-bothered individual who makes all of the airplane noise posts on this forum please chip in their perspectives on airplane noise in the Cabin John, Potomac, Glen Echo, Palisades neighborhoods? I was over there today and it didn't seem that bad.

We live in one of those hoods and it does not bother us.

That said local communities were very proactive in lobbying to get better enforcement of existing laws and to reduce air traffic.

Air traffic increased. This is the highest it has ever been.

The airlines succeeded in adding several long haul flights as an exception to the perimeter rule.

Efforts to create a better balance between north flow and south flow operations were stifled by a small minority.

Proactive does not mean successful.

Who are the people to write emails to in order for the community to demand action here? It seems like the current people representing the northflow communities are not doing their job.

This! I also would like to know.

This was posted fairly recently. It is a list of community representatives from DC, Fairfax, PG, Arlington and Montgomery. They are responsible for all the recent changes in flight paths.

https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2024-11/Reagan%20National_Noise%20Working%20Group_Voting%20Members_Nov042024.pdf

Thanks a lot. I just wrote our three MoCo reps an email about the increase in northflow operations. I hope they will respond.

I believe the person was writing that there were too many northbound operations which resulted in a lot of noise in Bethesda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm so sick of working until 10 pm, then being kept awake by air traffic including helicopters, and then awakened again at 6 am.

I'm ready to join a letter-writing brigade or lead petitions. I'm ready to become a one-issue voter over this. They need a different solution, including just limiting the number of flights allowed to take off and land at DCA.

--Exhausted all the time in Bethesda

Most of Bethesda has been impacted negatively by the recent changes in flight paths pushed through without any community input by the people on the DCA Noise Working Group.

All the noise abatement work in MoCo over the last 5 years was focused solely on one small area of Potomac and C.J. because all four MoCo seats on the DCA Working Group were filled by people from that area. They succeeded in eliminating all the departures and a large number of arrivals from Potomac by pushing departures south and closer to Bethesda neighborhoods south east of Glen Echo and diverting many arrivals to the Seven Locks Road corridor and the MacArthur Road corridor.

They don't appear to have any interest for now in bringing relief to other communities in MoCo by advocating for a better balance between southflow and northflow operations because it is not benefiting their community.

The FAA uses northflow as a default procedure, often irrespective of the direction of the winds. Hence a steady flow of jets taking off in the same direction to the North day after day. In the past, community members and other representatives on the DCA Working Group tried to address this problem with the FAA, but MoCo reps get a fit every time somebody mentions it.

So, reach out to your County representatives on the DCA Community Working Group and tell them you want them to advocate for your neighborhood by asking the FAA to create a better balance between southflow and northflow operations. It is unlikely you will get a response but if you do, post it here. There are two County officials on that committee and both of them are theoretically supposed to work for all communities in Montgomery County. If you do not get a response, contact the County Council and the Office of Marc Elrich and let them know.

The DCA Community Working Group is meeting with the FAA at the end of January.

Above may be largely true to some degree but I don’t think it is just because “four MoCo seats on the DCA Working Group were filled by people from that area.” Also before the pandemic, air traffic had been rerouted along the river so river communities were disproportionately impacted by increased air traffic often flying lower than before. Many CJ and Glen Echo residents were involved in the fight to reduce the sudden dramatic rise in air traffic

Cabin John citizen association has been working on this issue for many years. They voted to join the Montgomery County Quiet Skies Coalition in 2017. However, a later update in 2021 showed that many of their suggestions were not agreed upon by FAA - so I doubt that it is a matter of the DCA Working Group not caring about the well being of other nearby communities.

https://cabinjohn.org/index.php/2017/02/23/take-action-against-excessive-airplane-noise/

Residents were encouraged to file complaints using the Metropolitan Washington Airport Authority’s (MWAA) DCA Noise Complaint Form. And to Write letters supporting the Reagan National Community Noise Working Group’s 6-point Plan The community representatives of the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority. Many local residents got involved.

Specifically, CJ residents asked the FAA to
- move navigation waypoints away from communities
- increase departure altitudes
- implement a runway rotation plan to scatter departure noise more equitably
- review approach procedures to determine changes necessary to reduce noise
- conduct area-wide noise assessment studies
- implement a 24/7 Fly Quiet Program

These measures were not just to help CJ and river communities but all impacted communities.

Although this battle has escalated in recent years, it is not new.
WoPo wrote an article on CJ residents fighting airplane noice nearly 50 years ago
https://wapo.st/40cK8PY

Thank you for agreeing with the facts. The most important points remain:

1. All the changes in Montgomery County over the last 4 years were pushed through by the DCA Noise Working Group without any community input. Requests for outreach to the affected communities were ignored. Here's an example:

When the MoCo reps on the Working Group asked the FAA to move the departures closer to the densely populated communities in Bethesda, they failed to notify residents that the FAA had opened a comment period specifically for Montgomery County in 2020 to solicit feedback on the proposed change. Nobody knew of the proposed change or about the comment period so no feedback was received. The flight path was shifted from compatible land in Virginia towards the densely populated communities of Bethesda in 2021. The goal was to move the departures away from Potomac.

2. There is one viable solution for Bethesda and other communities that is currently not being considered because the MoCo members of the DCA Working Group are sabotaging the efforts. The communities north of the airport agreed that finding a better balance between departures and arrivals is their priority. This is from the list of priorities submitted to the FAA back in 2019:
"North flow/South flow split. The subcommittee looks forward to continuing to engage with the FAA on this topic and reviewing the forthcoming written FAA statement outlining operational considerations that impact flow decisions and North-South departure data with wind direction and velocity since 2015."

It very much matters what communities are represented on the DCA Working Group which is why every other jurisdiction has equal representation, except for MoCo and we are seeing the results of that. There was never any formal process for nominations in MoCo. And by the way the Quiet Skies Coalition and those on the Working Group are the same people.

The Working Group did not try to move the waypoints away from MoCo communities as you claim, but quite the opposite, with the exception of Potomac. The new procedure for departures in 2021 placed a new waypoint called RGiii directly over Glen Echo. Nobody in Glen Echo was notified. The MoCo reps on the Working Group also asked the FAA to move the final decent procedure for arriving aircraft from Potomac to Glen Echo (waypoint Daric) despite strong objections from those who knew what was going on. It was the FAA that saved Glen Echo and the surrounding area by responding that the location of the waypoint was not ideal for the new procedure and consequently moved it slightly west.

You mentioned efforts to increase the altitude. Strangely those efforts were focused only on the easterly flight path that goes over Cabin John. There was never any discussion about higher altitudes for the westerly flight path that was pushed towards Bethesda where airplanes are very low and loud because of the early turn. It matters who sits on the Working Group.

The link that you submitted is from 2017. You are talking about a different era. The DCA working group was very different then with different people and therefore different priorities. Bethesda was very involved with the Working Group in response to the FAA shifting its flight paths towards the Potomac River and Bethesda in 2016. The people who are currently representing MoCo on the Working Group disregarded all of it and pushed those flight paths even closer to Bethesda (!) without any community input while eliminating air traffic in their own neighborhood. It is unbelievable.

You sound very knowledgeable about the situation.

However, I would encourage you to talk to the CJ reps who are on the committee as they are genuine and well meaning people.

The update the community got in 2021 was that FAA was not open to discussing various proposed changes from two of three directions. I would not assume they are the ones blocking community inputs. I know that local residents were encouraged to request higher altitudes for all departing planes not just ones flying over CJ.

I agree that the working groups needs representation from all impacted MC communities.

The FAA was not open to discussing many things. For years they said "dispersal was non-negotiable". Yet, it happened. All the MoCo taxpayers paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for the consultants to help one small area in Potomac move flights to other areas. When residents from those other areas complained, the internal response on the Working group was "it is to be expected, it is part of the process".

It is time to move on to other areas in Montgomery County. There is one solution that can help all the communities north of the airport, with the exception of Potomac and Cabin John. We need a better balance between south flow and north flow operations. Yet, MoCo reps on the DCA Working Group are making sure those discussions do not happen.

Which well-meaning person from Cabin John do you suggest MoCo residents turn to? The one who shut down without any notice the listserv that MoCo residents used for discussing airplane noise, conveniently right before the changes started occurring? Or the one that tells Bethesda residents that they are to blame for buying a house closer to the airport along the river and therefore there is nothing that can be done for them about the noise?

I can’t speak to your allegations as I did not attend the meetings. The last comment makes no sense since CJ is closer to the river than Bethesda. It is ridiculous if they did say that. I am disappointed to hear about shutting down of list serve to discuss airplane noise and had not heard about that.

I can only speak to updates CJ residents received and the fact that we were encouraged to lobby for solutions that would help all impacted communities not just CJ.

As I said, I agree that the working committee needs representation from all impacted communities.

How does one become a member in the committee? I would be willing to dedicate a significant amount of my free time to increase awareness about this issue and unite people in the affected communities to do something.

Is the MoCo Quiet Skies organization actually being effective? I sent them a mail once asking how I could help and never heard back.

I think that is a good place to start and I would keep bugging them until someone gets back to you . Emails often get lost or sent to junk or missed. I would leave a voice message and an email.there is link below to register to join the coalition

The Montgomery County Quiet Skies Coalition was established to mitigate the severe aircraft noise pollution harming households that live under the flight path of Reagan Washington National Airport (DCA).
https://www.mocoquietskies.org
Link to join their coalition
https://www.mocoquietskies.org/contact

Montgomery County Government
You can file a complaint by completing a form on the Airpark website or by calling the Airport Manager at [phone], Extension: 1011. You can also call 311 during business hours to speak with a customer service representative.
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/DEP/property-care/noise/index.html#:~:text=Contact%20the%20police%20non%2Demergency,witnessed%20by%20an%20enforcement%20officer.
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/DEP/property-care/noise/file-noise-complaint.html
https://www3.montgomerycountymd.gov/311/SolutionView.aspx?SolutionId=1-5Y2W#:~:text=Justin%20Bollum%20C.M.,/2023%2010:52:26

Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)
You can submit a noise complaint through the Aircraft Noise Complaint Inquiry and Reporting (ANCIR) Portal. When filing a complaint, you should provide the street address or cross streets where the event occurred.
https://www.faa.gov/noise/inquiries#:~:text=Street%20Address%20or%20Cross%20Streets,related%20to%20a%20noise%20complaint.

Fair Skies Coalition
This group is dedicated to reducing low-flying airplanes over Fort Washington and Accokeek

Military installation noise office or community relations department
If you live near a military installation, you can contact their noise office or community relations department for more information.
Eg Naval Support Activity Bethesda
Naval Surface Warfare Center, Bethesda
US Warrior and Family Center, Bethesda

Montgomery County Police
You can call the non-emergency line at [phone] to report noise disturbances that occur outside of regular business hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to ask, but can someone other than the clearly very-bothered individual who makes all of the airplane noise posts on this forum please chip in their perspectives on airplane noise in the Cabin John, Potomac, Glen Echo, Palisades neighborhoods? I was over there today and it didn't seem that bad.

We live in one of those hoods and it does not bother us.

That said local communities were very proactive in lobbying to get better enforcement of existing laws and to reduce air traffic.

Air traffic increased. This is the highest it has ever been.

The airlines succeeded in adding several long haul flights as an exception to the perimeter rule.

Efforts to create a better balance between north flow and south flow operations were stifled by a small minority.

Proactive does not mean successful.

Who are the people to write emails to in order for the community to demand action here? It seems like the current people representing the northflow communities are not doing their job.

This! I also would like to know.

This was posted fairly recently. It is a list of community representatives from DC, Fairfax, PG, Arlington and Montgomery. They are responsible for all the recent changes in flight paths.

https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2024-11/Reagan%20National_Noise%20Working%20Group_Voting%20Members_Nov042024.pdf

Thanks a lot. I just wrote our three MoCo reps an email about the increase in northflow operations. I hope they will respond.

I believe the person was writing that there were too many northbound operations which resulted in a lot of noise in Bethesda.

Nah, PP wrote it on purpose to confuse people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to ask, but can someone other than the clearly very-bothered individual who makes all of the airplane noise posts on this forum please chip in their perspectives on airplane noise in the Cabin John, Potomac, Glen Echo, Palisades neighborhoods? I was over there today and it didn't seem that bad.

We live in one of those hoods and it does not bother us.

That said local communities were very proactive in lobbying to get better enforcement of existing laws and to reduce air traffic.

Air traffic increased. This is the highest it has ever been.

The airlines succeeded in adding several long haul flights as an exception to the perimeter rule.

Efforts to create a better balance between north flow and south flow operations were stifled by a small minority.

Proactive does not mean successful.

Who are the people to write emails to in order for the community to demand action here? It seems like the current people representing the northflow communities are not doing their job.

This! I also would like to know.

This was posted fairly recently. It is a list of community representatives from DC, Fairfax, PG, Arlington and Montgomery. They are responsible for all the recent changes in flight paths.

https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2024-11/Reagan%20National_Noise%20Working%20Group_Voting%20Members_Nov042024.pdf

Thanks a lot. I just wrote our three MoCo reps an email about the increase in northflow operations. I hope they will respond.

I believe the person was writing that there were too many northbound operations which resulted in a lot of noise in Bethesda.

Nah, PP wrote it on purpose to confuse people.

It only shows how far some are willing to go when the issue comes up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to ask, but can someone other than the clearly very-bothered individual who makes all of the airplane noise posts on this forum please chip in their perspectives on airplane noise in the Cabin John, Potomac, Glen Echo, Palisades neighborhoods? I was over there today and it didn't seem that bad.

We live in one of those hoods and it does not bother us.

That said local communities were very proactive in lobbying to get better enforcement of existing laws and to reduce air traffic.

Air traffic increased. This is the highest it has ever been.

The airlines succeeded in adding several long haul flights as an exception to the perimeter rule.

Efforts to create a better balance between north flow and south flow operations were stifled by a small minority.

Proactive does not mean successful.

Who are the people to write emails to in order for the community to demand action here? It seems like the current people representing the northflow communities are not doing their job.

This! I also would like to know.

This was posted fairly recently. It is a list of community representatives from DC, Fairfax, PG, Arlington and Montgomery. They are responsible for all the recent changes in flight paths.

https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2024-11/Reagan%20National_Noise%20Working%20Group_Voting%20Members_Nov042024.pdf

Thanks a lot. I just wrote our three MoCo reps an email about the increase in northflow operations. I hope they will respond.

I believe the person was writing that there were too many northbound operations which resulted in a lot of noise in Bethesda.

Nah, PP wrote it on purpose to confuse people.

It only shows how far some are willing to go when the issue comes up.

Not sure what both of you were confused about. I am the one that wrote the committee members. I live near GEH and was specifically talking about the increase in planes flying north, over Bethesda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to ask, but can someone other than the clearly very-bothered individual who makes all of the airplane noise posts on this forum please chip in their perspectives on airplane noise in the Cabin John, Potomac, Glen Echo, Palisades neighborhoods? I was over there today and it didn't seem that bad.

We live in one of those hoods and it does not bother us.

That said local communities were very proactive in lobbying to get better enforcement of existing laws and to reduce air traffic.

Air traffic increased. This is the highest it has ever been.

The airlines succeeded in adding several long haul flights as an exception to the perimeter rule.

Efforts to create a better balance between north flow and south flow operations were stifled by a small minority.

Proactive does not mean successful.

Who are the people to write emails to in order for the community to demand action here? It seems like the current people representing the northflow communities are not doing their job.

This! I also would like to know.

This was posted fairly recently. It is a list of community representatives from DC, Fairfax, PG, Arlington and Montgomery. They are responsible for all the recent changes in flight paths.

https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2024-11/Reagan%20National_Noise%20Working%20Group_Voting%20Members_Nov042024.pdf

Thanks a lot. I just wrote our three MoCo reps an email about the increase in northflow operations. I hope they will respond.

I believe the person was writing that there were too many northbound operations which resulted in a lot of noise in Bethesda.

Nah, PP wrote it on purpose to confuse people.

It only shows how far some are willing to go when the issue comes up.

Not sure what both of you were confused about. I am the one that wrote the committee members. I live near GEH and was specifically talking about the increase in planes flying north, over Bethesda.

Got it. Thanks. we need to have a better balance between departures and arrivals on both sides of the airport. The faa needs to stop defaulting to northflow operations all the time. All these programs like Fly Quiet are fine but will not bring much relief to people living north of the airport.

I wrote to the committee members today too. Others need to do the same not just from Montgomery county but also from palisades, Georgetown and Arlington. Community representatives on the dca working group are not doing their job.

[Anonymous]

After seeing that others in this forum were also observing the increase in noise, I followed the advice of a PP and wrote to our representatives. I appreciated receiving a reply, even if it's dismissive. Here's what it said:

Thank you for your email. I understand you believe air traffic noise has worsened significantly over the last couple of years. This should not be the case. For arrivals, the Federal Aviation Administration published new procedures this past July that shifted noise toward compatible areas on the Virginia side of the Potomac River and dispersed them somewhat. For departures, there have been no changes since early 2021. The 2021 change lessened noise a little bit for communities north of the Bethesda/Potomac line and had no effect on your part of Bethesda. The only reason you may be noticing noise has worsened recently is because Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport ended a nighttime paving project that halted flights between 11pm and 6am so our communities are again impacted by late night and early morning flights. These flights disturb residents throughout the county but unfortunately, under federal law, airlines are allowed to operate 24/7 at DCA.

You also wrote moving flights away from Cabin John and Glen Echo shifted noise from one part of Bethesda to another. This is incorrect. For arrivals, the July change I mentioned above moved the flight path slightly to the west, toward Virginia and away from all Bethesda communities. Your neighborhood of Westmoreland Hills benefited from the July changes because one of the arrival procedures that used to fly inland near your neighborhood is being flown less often. Again, the 2021 departure change did not increase noise for any community in Montgomery County including Bethesda communities.

It is true that DCA operates in northflow about 60% of the time when Montgomery County communities experience departures. This FAA operational decision is due primarily to wind direction, which is a safety issue, but FAA Air Traffic Controller preference is also a factor. For years, DCA Community Noise Working Group members from all political jurisdictions (Maryland, DC, and Virginia) have raised this issue with the FAA. Members have repeatedly asked about the feasibility of a 50/50 split between northflow and southflow. For as long as the Working Group has been meeting, the answer has consistently been no. This is because the FAA is tasked with efficiency, and northflow is more efficient for the controllers. In early 2020, when Montgomery County hired an aviation consultant, we asked him to evaluate a 50/50 split, and if advantageous to all communities, to advocate for that with the FAA. Our consultant substantiated what the FAA Air Traffic Control liaison had been saying for years, namely the FAA is not receptive because the agency will not put community noise concerns before their operational needs. So, this question was asked and answered many times. The FAA even took the time to explain the technical reasons why air traffic controllers prefer northflow during the November 2019 Working Group meeting. It is unproductive for us to continue to ask a question that has been asked and answered many times. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if the question comes up again as part of the south-of-the-airport analysis that will be shared at the January 23rd Working Group meeting. While we don’t expect the FAA’s position to change, we will be listening carefully to that presentation. Should you like to listen in as well, I will share the link to the meeting when it is ready. You be able to click to join the us at 6:00pm.

In closing, I can personally attest every Montgomery County representative to the Working Group cares about and represents all County communities. While it would have perhaps been easier to persuade the FAA to move paths to take some of the noise burden off the most heavily impacted communities while worsening it for others, that option was rejected on principle by all MoCo representatives at the outset. After 8 years of unrelenting effort, some of our communities got a little relief (not nearly as much as we would like) and others did not. This is due to the nature of dealing with the FAA itself, whose mission is limited to “safety and efficiency of the national airspace” and does not include noise mitigation or other environmental concerns. In short, the FAA eventually agreed to some relatively minor changes that benefit some Montgomery County communities primarily because those changes were good for them. While we continue to advocate for a Fly Quiet program to collect noise data by airline, the contract with our consultant ended some time ago. DCA Community Noise Working Group focus has now shifted to trying to mitigate some of the noise from DCA operations for south-of- the-airport communities.

I’m happy to answer any additional questions you may have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After seeing that others in this forum were also observing the increase in noise, I followed the advice of a PP and wrote to our representatives. I appreciated receiving a reply, even if it's dismissive. Here's what it said:

Thank you for your email. I understand you believe air traffic noise has worsened significantly over the last couple of years. This should not be the case. For arrivals, the Federal Aviation Administration published new procedures this past July that shifted noise toward compatible areas on the Virginia side of the Potomac River and dispersed them somewhat. For departures, there have been no changes since early 2021. The 2021 change lessened noise a little bit for communities north of the Bethesda/Potomac line and had no effect on your part of Bethesda. The only reason you may be noticing noise has worsened recently is because Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport ended a nighttime paving project that halted flights between 11pm and 6am so our communities are again impacted by late night and early morning flights. These flights disturb residents throughout the county but unfortunately, under federal law, airlines are allowed to operate 24/7 at DCA.

You also wrote moving flights away from Cabin John and Glen Echo shifted noise from one part of Bethesda to another. This is incorrect. For arrivals, the July change I mentioned above moved the flight path slightly to the west, toward Virginia and away from all Bethesda communities. Your neighborhood of Westmoreland Hills benefited from the July changes because one of the arrival procedures that used to fly inland near your neighborhood is being flown less often. Again, the 2021 departure change did not increase noise for any community in Montgomery County including Bethesda communities.

It is true that DCA operates in northflow about 60% of the time when Montgomery County communities experience departures. This FAA operational decision is due primarily to wind direction, which is a safety issue, but FAA Air Traffic Controller preference is also a factor. For years, DCA Community Noise Working Group members from all political jurisdictions (Maryland, DC, and Virginia) have raised this issue with the FAA. Members have repeatedly asked about the feasibility of a 50/50 split between northflow and southflow. For as long as the Working Group has been meeting, the answer has consistently been no. This is because the FAA is tasked with efficiency, and northflow is more efficient for the controllers. In early 2020, when Montgomery County hired an aviation consultant, we asked him to evaluate a 50/50 split, and if advantageous to all communities, to advocate for that with the FAA. Our consultant substantiated what the FAA Air Traffic Control liaison had been saying for years, namely the FAA is not receptive because the agency will not put community noise concerns before their operational needs. So, this question was asked and answered many times. The FAA even took the time to explain the technical reasons why air traffic controllers prefer northflow during the November 2019 Working Group meeting. It is unproductive for us to continue to ask a question that has been asked and answered many times. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if the question comes up again as part of the south-of-the-airport analysis that will be shared at the January 23rd Working Group meeting. While we don’t expect the FAA’s position to change, we will be listening carefully to that presentation. Should you like to listen in as well, I will share the link to the meeting when it is ready. You be able to click to join the us at 6:00pm.

In closing, I can personally attest every Montgomery County representative to the Working Group cares about and represents all County communities. While it would have perhaps been easier to persuade the FAA to move paths to take some of the noise burden off the most heavily impacted communities while worsening it for others, that option was rejected on principle by all MoCo representatives at the outset. After 8 years of unrelenting effort, some of our communities got a little relief (not nearly as much as we would like) and others did not. This is due to the nature of dealing with the FAA itself, whose mission is limited to “safety and efficiency of the national airspace” and does not include noise mitigation or other environmental concerns. In short, the FAA eventually agreed to some relatively minor changes that benefit some Montgomery County communities primarily because those changes were good for them. While we continue to advocate for a Fly Quiet program to collect noise data by airline, the contract with our consultant ended some time ago. DCA Community Noise Working Group focus has now shifted to trying to mitigate some of the noise from DCA operations for south-of- the-airport communities.

I’m happy to answer any additional questions you may have.

This response was far from dismissive.

It is helpful, highly detailed and accurate representation of DCA and FAA responses to concerns raised by MC reps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After seeing that others in this forum were also observing the increase in noise, I followed the advice of a PP and wrote to our representatives. I appreciated receiving a reply, even if it's dismissive. Here's what it said:

Thank you for your email. I understand you believe air traffic noise has worsened significantly over the last couple of years. This should not be the case. For arrivals, the Federal Aviation Administration published new procedures this past July that shifted noise toward compatible areas on the Virginia side of the Potomac River and dispersed them somewhat. For departures, there have been no changes since early 2021. The 2021 change lessened noise a little bit for communities north of the Bethesda/Potomac line and had no effect on your part of Bethesda. The only reason you may be noticing noise has worsened recently is because Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport ended a nighttime paving project that halted flights between 11pm and 6am so our communities are again impacted by late night and early morning flights. These flights disturb residents throughout the county but unfortunately, under federal law, airlines are allowed to operate 24/7 at DCA.

You also wrote moving flights away from Cabin John and Glen Echo shifted noise from one part of Bethesda to another. This is incorrect. For arrivals, the July change I mentioned above moved the flight path slightly to the west, toward Virginia and away from all Bethesda communities. Your neighborhood of Westmoreland Hills benefited from the July changes because one of the arrival procedures that used to fly inland near your neighborhood is being flown less often. Again, the 2021 departure change did not increase noise for any community in Montgomery County including Bethesda communities.

It is true that DCA operates in northflow about 60% of the time when Montgomery County communities experience departures. This FAA operational decision is due primarily to wind direction, which is a safety issue, but FAA Air Traffic Controller preference is also a factor. For years, DCA Community Noise Working Group members from all political jurisdictions (Maryland, DC, and Virginia) have raised this issue with the FAA. Members have repeatedly asked about the feasibility of a 50/50 split between northflow and southflow. For as long as the Working Group has been meeting, the answer has consistently been no. This is because the FAA is tasked with efficiency, and northflow is more efficient for the controllers. In early 2020, when Montgomery County hired an aviation consultant, we asked him to evaluate a 50/50 split, and if advantageous to all communities, to advocate for that with the FAA. Our consultant substantiated what the FAA Air Traffic Control liaison had been saying for years, namely the FAA is not receptive because the agency will not put community noise concerns before their operational needs. So, this question was asked and answered many times. The FAA even took the time to explain the technical reasons why air traffic controllers prefer northflow during the November 2019 Working Group meeting. It is unproductive for us to continue to ask a question that has been asked and answered many times. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if the question comes up again as part of the south-of-the-airport analysis that will be shared at the January 23rd Working Group meeting. While we don’t expect the FAA’s position to change, we will be listening carefully to that presentation. Should you like to listen in as well, I will share the link to the meeting when it is ready. You be able to click to join the us at 6:00pm.

In closing, I can personally attest every Montgomery County representative to the Working Group cares about and represents all County communities. While it would have perhaps been easier to persuade the FAA to move paths to take some of the noise burden off the most heavily impacted communities while worsening it for others, that option was rejected on principle by all MoCo representatives at the outset. After 8 years of unrelenting effort, some of our communities got a little relief (not nearly as much as we would like) and others did not. This is due to the nature of dealing with the FAA itself, whose mission is limited to “safety and efficiency of the national airspace” and does not include noise mitigation or other environmental concerns. In short, the FAA eventually agreed to some relatively minor changes that benefit some Montgomery County communities primarily because those changes were good for them. While we continue to advocate for a Fly Quiet program to collect noise data by airline, the contract with our consultant ended some time ago. DCA Community Noise Working Group focus has now shifted to trying to mitigate some of the noise from DCA operations for south-of- the-airport communities.

I’m happy to answer any additional questions you may have.

As expected, the MOCO delegation on the Working Group is not interested in advocating for any communities outside of Potomac and Cabin John.

"northflow is more efficient for the controllers".


Efficient meaning easier?. MoCo delegates on the Working Group spent the last 5 years lobbying the FAA to introduce a procedure that involved dispersing arrivals so they are not concentrated over Potomac. The FAA responded to those requests for years with the following: it is not happening; it is inefficient, we are not going back to old technology, etc. Yet, all that persistence paid off and it finally happened with the help of a consultant hired by the County. When the FAA started testing the new procedure 3 years ago, there was a lot of resistance from air traffic controllers and the airlines. It required that controllers vector planes along multiple flight paths rather than one. The new procedure also required that airplanes come down for landing much earlier and much lower. It took a few years for controllers to embrace the new system and the new procedure was fully implemented last July. The MoCo delegation should employ the same passion and tenacity to help other communities that they are accountable to.


"This FAA operational decision is due primarily to wind direction, which is a safety issue,"

The airport is often in north flow with strong winds blowing from the south. Is this safe? Also, there is no reason why we should have northbound planes in light winds from East or West.

Happy to see that other representatives on the Working Group keep raising the issue. The situation has changed a lot since it was last discussed with the FAA in that we now have a GPS approach procedure. Would that make it easier or more difficult to achieve the goal? Somebody needs to ask the FAA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After seeing that others in this forum were also observing the increase in noise, I followed the advice of a PP and wrote to our representatives. I appreciated receiving a reply, even if it's dismissive. Here's what it said:

Thank you for your email. I understand you believe air traffic noise has worsened significantly over the last couple of years. This should not be the case. For arrivals, the Federal Aviation Administration published new procedures this past July that shifted noise toward compatible areas on the Virginia side of the Potomac River and dispersed them somewhat. For departures, there have been no changes since early 2021. The 2021 change lessened noise a little bit for communities north of the Bethesda/Potomac line and had no effect on your part of Bethesda. The only reason you may be noticing noise has worsened recently is because Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport ended a nighttime paving project that halted flights between 11pm and 6am so our communities are again impacted by late night and early morning flights. These flights disturb residents throughout the county but unfortunately, under federal law, airlines are allowed to operate 24/7 at DCA.

You also wrote moving flights away from Cabin John and Glen Echo shifted noise from one part of Bethesda to another. This is incorrect. For arrivals, the July change I mentioned above moved the flight path slightly to the west, toward Virginia and away from all Bethesda communities. Your neighborhood of Westmoreland Hills benefited from the July changes because one of the arrival procedures that used to fly inland near your neighborhood is being flown less often. Again, the 2021 departure change did not increase noise for any community in Montgomery County including Bethesda communities.

It is true that DCA operates in northflow about 60% of the time when Montgomery County communities experience departures. This FAA operational decision is due primarily to wind direction, which is a safety issue, but FAA Air Traffic Controller preference is also a factor. For years, DCA Community Noise Working Group members from all political jurisdictions (Maryland, DC, and Virginia) have raised this issue with the FAA. Members have repeatedly asked about the feasibility of a 50/50 split between northflow and southflow. For as long as the Working Group has been meeting, the answer has consistently been no. This is because the FAA is tasked with efficiency, and northflow is more efficient for the controllers. In early 2020, when Montgomery County hired an aviation consultant, we asked him to evaluate a 50/50 split, and if advantageous to all communities, to advocate for that with the FAA. Our consultant substantiated what the FAA Air Traffic Control liaison had been saying for years, namely the FAA is not receptive because the agency will not put community noise concerns before their operational needs. So, this question was asked and answered many times. The FAA even took the time to explain the technical reasons why air traffic controllers prefer northflow during the November 2019 Working Group meeting. It is unproductive for us to continue to ask a question that has been asked and answered many times. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if the question comes up again as part of the south-of-the-airport analysis that will be shared at the January 23rd Working Group meeting. While we don’t expect the FAA’s position to change, we will be listening carefully to that presentation. Should you like to listen in as well, I will share the link to the meeting when it is ready. You be able to click to join the us at 6:00pm.

In closing, I can personally attest every Montgomery County representative to the Working Group cares about and represents all County communities. While it would have perhaps been easier to persuade the FAA to move paths to take some of the noise burden off the most heavily impacted communities while worsening it for others, that option was rejected on principle by all MoCo representatives at the outset. After 8 years of unrelenting effort, some of our communities got a little relief (not nearly as much as we would like) and others did not. This is due to the nature of dealing with the FAA itself, whose mission is limited to “safety and efficiency of the national airspace” and does not include noise mitigation or other environmental concerns. In short, the FAA eventually agreed to some relatively minor changes that benefit some Montgomery County communities primarily because those changes were good for them. While we continue to advocate for a Fly Quiet program to collect noise data by airline, the contract with our consultant ended some time ago. DCA Community Noise Working Group focus has now shifted to trying to mitigate some of the noise from DCA operations for south-of- the-airport communities.

I’m happy to answer any additional questions you may have.

The response was very dismissive. Here's my response:

Show us the data to support your claims about no increase in noise. None has ever been provided. The documents from the FAA, residents observations point to the contrary. None of the affected communities were asked by MoCo to provide feedback on the changes.

DEPARTURES 2021 change:

2019 MWAA Meeting - Montgomery County representatives asked the FAA "to drop flights over the river" which for Bethesda meant shifting the flight path from compatible land in Virginia towards a densely populated area along the Potomac River in MoCo. Bethesda residents had objected to a similar proposal three years earlier. MoCo delegates should have asked the FAA to shift the flight path towards the river away from Potomac only but that would send the wrong message about their intentions.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/legacyfiles/final_reagan_national_working_group_reg_meeting_33_summary_27_jun_2019_revised.pdf

Page four shows in yellow how the noise increased for all the communities closer to the river. The change also resulted in airplanes flying much closer to Bethesda than shown on the map in anticipation of the early turn to the west. The FAA warned MoCo about overflights with this new procedure. The noise from departures is not contained to the narrow river below the airplane especially from loud turns at low altitudes.
https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/air_traffic/community_engagement/dca_p56/MD_SHPO_Notice_of_Availability_Letter_DCA_Permanent_HOLTB.pdf

Page two shows how the flight path has shifted.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/625ea372efb30866190dfba3/t/62845a7e63440f52e4f5f4a8/1652841087287/2021.01_MCQSC_Update.pdf

Shortly afterwards there were two other attempts to shift the easterly flight path to the river in the same manner the westerly flight path had been shifted. Thankfully, both of them failed. Even the consultant admitted afterwards that they would have dire consequences for Bethesda. See page four:
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2022-07/DCA%20CWG%20meeting%20Summary%2004.28.22%20v1.pdf

ARRIVALS:

The email did not address the noise impacts of dispersal on the newly overflown communities.

The original proposal submitted by MoCo to the FAA asked that the start of the approach procedure be shifted to Daric waypoint in Glen Echo from Fergi in Potomac. After a review, the FAA decided that it made more sense to place Daric slightly west of Glen Echo which indeed turned out to be better for the MoCo communities directly in the vicinity. The original proposal submitted to the FAA is shown on page 17:
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/legacyfiles/post_abcx2_presentation_of_noa_recommendations_to_cwg_20210722.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After seeing that others in this forum were also observing the increase in noise, I followed the advice of a PP and wrote to our representatives. I appreciated receiving a reply, even if it's dismissive. Here's what it said:

Thank you for your email. I understand you believe air traffic noise has worsened significantly over the last couple of years. This should not be the case. For arrivals, the Federal Aviation Administration published new procedures this past July that shifted noise toward compatible areas on the Virginia side of the Potomac River and dispersed them somewhat. For departures, there have been no changes since early 2021. The 2021 change lessened noise a little bit for communities north of the Bethesda/Potomac line and had no effect on your part of Bethesda. The only reason you may be noticing noise has worsened recently is because Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport ended a nighttime paving project that halted flights between 11pm and 6am so our communities are again impacted by late night and early morning flights. These flights disturb residents throughout the county but unfortunately, under federal law, airlines are allowed to operate 24/7 at DCA.

You also wrote moving flights away from Cabin John and Glen Echo shifted noise from one part of Bethesda to another. This is incorrect. For arrivals, the July change I mentioned above moved the flight path slightly to the west, toward Virginia and away from all Bethesda communities. Your neighborhood of Westmoreland Hills benefited from the July changes because one of the arrival procedures that used to fly inland near your neighborhood is being flown less often. Again, the 2021 departure change did not increase noise for any community in Montgomery County including Bethesda communities.

It is true that DCA operates in northflow about 60% of the time when Montgomery County communities experience departures. This FAA operational decision is due primarily to wind direction, which is a safety issue, but FAA Air Traffic Controller preference is also a factor. For years, DCA Community Noise Working Group members from all political jurisdictions (Maryland, DC, and Virginia) have raised this issue with the FAA. Members have repeatedly asked about the feasibility of a 50/50 split between northflow and southflow. For as long as the Working Group has been meeting, the answer has consistently been no. This is because the FAA is tasked with efficiency, and northflow is more efficient for the controllers. In early 2020, when Montgomery County hired an aviation consultant, we asked him to evaluate a 50/50 split, and if advantageous to all communities, to advocate for that with the FAA. Our consultant substantiated what the FAA Air Traffic Control liaison had been saying for years, namely the FAA is not receptive because the agency will not put community noise concerns before their operational needs. So, this question was asked and answered many times. The FAA even took the time to explain the technical reasons why air traffic controllers prefer northflow during the November 2019 Working Group meeting. It is unproductive for us to continue to ask a question that has been asked and answered many times. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if the question comes up again as part of the south-of-the-airport analysis that will be shared at the January 23rd Working Group meeting. While we don’t expect the FAA’s position to change, we will be listening carefully to that presentation. Should you like to listen in as well, I will share the link to the meeting when it is ready. You be able to click to join the us at 6:00pm.

In closing, I can personally attest every Montgomery County representative to the Working Group cares about and represents all County communities. While it would have perhaps been easier to persuade the FAA to move paths to take some of the noise burden off the most heavily impacted communities while worsening it for others, that option was rejected on principle by all MoCo representatives at the outset. After 8 years of unrelenting effort, some of our communities got a little relief (not nearly as much as we would like) and others did not. This is due to the nature of dealing with the FAA itself, whose mission is limited to “safety and efficiency of the national airspace” and does not include noise mitigation or other environmental concerns. In short, the FAA eventually agreed to some relatively minor changes that benefit some Montgomery County communities primarily because those changes were good for them. While we continue to advocate for a Fly Quiet program to collect noise data by airline, the contract with our consultant ended some time ago. DCA Community Noise Working Group focus has now shifted to trying to mitigate some of the noise from DCA operations for south-of- the-airport communities.

I’m happy to answer any additional questions you may have.

The response was very dismissive. Here's my response:

Show us the data to support your claims about no increase in noise. None has ever been provided. The documents from the FAA, residents observations point to the contrary. None of the affected communities were asked by MoCo to provide feedback on the changes.

DEPARTURES 2021 change:

2019 MWAA Meeting - Montgomery County representatives asked the FAA "to drop flights over the river" which for Bethesda meant shifting the flight path from compatible land in Virginia towards a densely populated area along the Potomac River in MoCo. Bethesda residents had objected to a similar proposal three years earlier. MoCo delegates should have asked the FAA to shift the flight path towards the river away from Potomac only but that would send the wrong message about their intentions.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/legacyfiles/final_reagan_national_working_group_reg_meeting_33_summary_27_jun_2019_revised.pdf

Page four shows in yellow how the noise increased for all the communities closer to the river. The change also resulted in airplanes flying much closer to Bethesda than shown on the map in anticipation of the early turn to the west. The FAA warned MoCo about overflights with this new procedure. The noise from departures is not contained to the narrow river below the airplane especially from loud turns at low altitudes.
https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/air_traffic/community_engagement/dca_p56/MD_SHPO_Notice_of_Availability_Letter_DCA_Permanent_HOLTB.pdf

Page two shows how the flight path has shifted.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/625ea372efb30866190dfba3/t/62845a7e63440f52e4f5f4a8/1652841087287/2021.01_MCQSC_Update.pdf

Shortly afterwards there were two other attempts to shift the easterly flight path to the river in the same manner the westerly flight path had been shifted. Thankfully, both of them failed. Even the consultant admitted afterwards that they would have dire consequences for Bethesda. See page four:
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2022-07/DCA%20CWG%20meeting%20Summary%2004.28.22%20v1.pdf

ARRIVALS:

The email did not address the noise impacts of dispersal on the newly overflown communities.

The original proposal submitted by MoCo to the FAA asked that the start of the approach procedure be shifted to Daric waypoint in Glen Echo from Fergi in Potomac. After a review, the FAA decided that it made more sense to place Daric slightly west of Glen Echo which indeed turned out to be better for the MoCo communities directly in the vicinity. The original proposal submitted to the FAA is shown on page 17:
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/legacyfiles/post_abcx2_presentation_of_noa_recommendations_to_cwg_20210722.pdf

Big plus one -

[Anonymous]

In Carderock airplanes started appearing out of nowhere during the lockdown. The place has been unlivable since.

[Anonymous]

MoCo representatives argue in their email that they will not support the efforts to have a more equitable distribution of noise by balancing south and north flow operations because "the FAA is not receptive to putting community noise concerns before their operational needs".

An interesting statement considering that Montgomery County has just asked the FAA to eliminate the stormy weather procedure from Potomac and the FAA complied! The agency agreed to start the procedure intended to aid pilots in poor visibility conditions not over Potomac but further south. The only factors that were considered by the FAA were the noise impacts on Potomac.

The email also states that this month a group representing a community south of the airport is planning to raise the issue of excessive use of north flow operations by the FAA. MoCo representatives do not appear concerned as if that group from south of the airport was not influential enough to be effective and sway the FAA.

I hope that the unknown community south of the airport will receive the same level of consideration from our federal government as their counterparts to the north.