Airplane noise concerns overblown?

[Anonymous]

There is no community that is affected more by overuse of north flow operations than Prince George's County. I am only guessing that they are the ones intending to raise the issue of imbalance between south flow and north flow operations at the meeting this Thursday.

At issue for PG and Montgomery Counties are low flying airplanes starting their final descent. Currently, the ratio works in favor of Potomac in Montgomery County (procedure used approx. 35% of the time ) as opposed to Accokeek and Fort Washington in Prince George's County (used approx. 65% of the time and at much lower altitudes).

Any slight increase in southbound flights above the 35% typically due to the weather leads in complaints to the FAA from the Montgomery County delegation on the Working Group. The FAA shows empathy and promises action.

There is no evidence in the minutes from the Working Group meetings that anybody has ever pointed out to the committee members that any increase in south flow operations brings a welcome relief to residents in Prince George's County who are disproportionately affected by arrivals.

Perhaps the DCA Working Group that consists of community members, MWAA, FAA and industry representatives could now seize this opportunity to help ensure greater equity for all affected by airplane noise.

[Anonymous]

Sometimes they fly Air Force one insanely low in circles near Andrews. I often think it seems like an unnecessary risk and they should take it somewhere unpopulated to do that. But I guess maybe it’s practice for something that they feel needs to be done locally. It is really crazy though. It goes right over head like it’s about to land or crash.

[Anonymous]

Anybody watched the meeting last night? I heard somebody from McLean finally asked about the recent increase in noise.

Anybody who lives off GW Pkwy knows that most airplanes heading to DCA late at night are now being rerouted via NoVa just south of the river.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anybody watched the meeting last night? I heard somebody from McLean finally asked about the recent increase in noise.

Anybody who lives off GW Pkwy knows that most airplanes heading to DCA late at night are now being rerouted via NoVa just south of the river.

Montgomery County asked the FAA to scatter the arriving airplanes to clear the air over Potomac and that is what the FAA did. Many of those airplanes flying from the west are now over McLean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no community that is affected more by overuse of north flow operations than Prince George's County. I am only guessing that they are the ones intending to raise the issue of imbalance between south flow and north flow operations at the meeting this Thursday.

At issue for PG and Montgomery Counties are low flying airplanes starting their final descent. Currently, the ratio works in favor of Potomac in Montgomery County (procedure used approx. 35% of the time ) as opposed to Accokeek and Fort Washington in Prince George's County (used approx. 65% of the time and at much lower altitudes).

Any slight increase in southbound flights above the 35% typically due to the weather leads in complaints to the FAA from the Montgomery County delegation on the Working Group. The FAA shows empathy and promises action.

There is no evidence in the minutes from the Working Group meetings that anybody has ever pointed out to the committee members that any increase in south flow operations brings a welcome relief to residents in Prince George's County who are disproportionately affected by arrivals.

Perhaps the DCA Working Group that consists of community members, MWAA, FAA and industry representatives could now seize this opportunity to help ensure greater equity for all affected by airplane noise.

Unfortunately, at last week's meeting nobody brought up the issue of imbalance between South and North flow operations. However when discussing arrivals from the north to runway 15 Montgomery county reminded the FAA of an option to switch to North flow operations in light southern winds instead of using runway 15. That would of course mean more noise for PG county.

I hope that comment will not be excluded from the minutes because it was so outrageous. Even the FAA responded that they would not be considering switching the flow for that reason alone.

[Anonymous]

I like airplane noise, and seeing planes. It’s a bonus to be near an airport or flight path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I like airplane noise, and seeing planes. It’s a bonus to be near an airport or flight path.

Until you get Stage 4 Pancreatic Cancer from inhaling Ultra Fine Particles for several years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your observations are correct.

At the request of Potomac residents on the dca noise community working group and Montgomery county the flight path for departures heading north and west was shifted to over the river and closer to Westmoreland Hills. It started in 2021. Your community was not consulted. In fact, the FAA opened a comment period for Montgomery county residents to provide input on the change, but your county representatives decided not to tell you about it.

As stated above, at the request of the DCA Working group the westerly flight path was moved from noise compatible area in Virginia towards the river and closer to the heavily populated communities in Bethesda. It did not provide any noise reduction for Bethesda but it only made things worse.

We are learning that a crash over water presents the worst case scenario. Perhaps this is something that can be taken into account by the Working Group when pushing for flight path changes in the future. There are instances when it makes sense to move the flight path to the river, but this 2021 change is not one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes they fly Air Force one insanely low in circles near Andrews. I often think it seems like an unnecessary risk and they should take it somewhere unpopulated to do that. But I guess maybe it’s practice for something that they feel needs to be done locally. It is really crazy though. It goes right over head like it’s about to land or crash.

Wow. This was prescient

[Anonymous]

There's going to be a lot more military helicopters over housing tracts in PG County and NoVa in order to avoid DCA flight paths.

[Anonymous]

Since Trump took over, I swear I’ve heard more flights out of Reagan than ever before- I don’t know if it’s New administration or mandatory return to office or what? Has anyone else noticed this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Since Trump took over, I swear I’ve heard more flights out of Reagan than ever before- I don’t know if it’s New administration or mandatory return to office or what? Has anyone else noticed this?

I don't think so. I noticed just the opposite.

Where do you live?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People in thread are clinically OCD. You all need help. FYI, DARIC is being changed sometime next year, which should lower noise along the nicest part of Bethesda (GEH, GE), so thank god for that.

If you are indeed involved with changes in Montgomery County, why don't you give us a full account of what is happening. Area residents only ever heard about Palisades, but some of the most significant changes in southflow operations are in Montgomery County. Strangely, there was never anything in the news. Here's my summary (excuse the typos):

2016 - The FAA consolidates all the flight paths for arrivals located primarily in Virginia and moves them to the Potomac River and Montgomery County. The waypoint FERGI is moved to Potomac near Avenel Country Club. A Reagan National Community Noise Working Group (established in October 2015) votes in favor of the new approach procedure. Montgomery County is absent from the vote.

Montgomery County files a lawsuit against the FAA. The lawsuit is thrown out of court not because of merit but timeliness.

Potomac residents on the Noise Working Group ask the FAA to relocate FERGI further north to areas with less population density. The FAA rejects the idea as not being operationally viable. The FAA is then asked if it is possible for the arriving airplanes to start their final descent at DARIC in Glen Echo i.e. over the river instead of FERGI irrespective of population density.

Montgomery County hires an independent consultant to design a flight path for arrivals at DARIC. The consultant is asked to disperse the flights over Bethesda and Potomac in an effort to decrease channelization over FERGI. (TAA Concept refers to the dispersal).

The new design is submitted to the FAA for review and approval. Pages 16 & 17 show before and after.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/legacyfiles/post_abcx2_presentation_of_noa_recommendations_to_cwg_20210722.pdf

The FAA examines and amends the proposal submitted by MoCo by moving waypoint DARIC west (referred to as new Daric) and away from Glen Echo to make the flight path feasible.

2021 - 2024 - TAA (dispersal) is being tested in Montgomery County with about 10 percent of the fleet. Complaints from unsuspecting MoCo residents pour in to MWAA.

As part of the re-design, the Working Group gives the FAA the green light to introduce the GPS procedure for arrivals. The FAA has been seeking this approval for some time. The new flight path has lower weather minimums which means the inclement weather procedure (LDA-Z) does not have to be used as often.

2022 - The FAA presents to the Working Group the final design of the new flight path for arrivals. Concerns are raised that the new route is closer to communities in the District. The FAA responds that this is the only option. The key benefit of the new procedure for the Palisades is that in inclement weather there will be fewer overflights.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2023-01/Final%20summary%2010-27-22%20DCA%20WG%20meeting%2050.pdf

In Montgomery County the plan is to expand TAA (dispersal) from 10 to 50 percent of the fleet and to begin the inclement weather procedure at DARIC instead of FERGI.

Also: The inclement weather procedure is temporarily suspended for several months. The runway is also being repaved which means fewer flights late at night and early in the morning until October 2024.

"Complaints from unsuspecting MoCo residents pour in"

Typical Montgomery County.....Keep the residents in the dark.

I can tell you that those who made inquiries by calling the airport directly were told that the FAA was behind all the changes and "there is nothing you can do about it".

The FAA is only responding to demands in this case.

There are numerous reports on other MOCO discussion forums or social media platforms from those who called the airport noise line only to be told that the FAA is the one responsible for the flight path change and the resulting increase in noise and nothing that it is the Community Working Group at DCA that pushed and voted for every single procedure change that took place in Montgomery County over the last 5 years.

Have the relationships between the FAA, MWAA and the community members on the DCA Working Group become too cozy?

Those phone conversations should be recorded for quality control. If the flight path changes have been so successful why hide the facts about who is behind them. There is no transparency with this group.

[Anonymous]

Now is the time to push for a drastic reduction in flight volume at DCA or even a complete shutdown of DCA (always aim higher). I'm surprised no one mentions it here.

There is a lot of momentum right now. The MD/VA politicians have an incentive to push for moving flights away from DCA. The record shows they correctly called out the safety risks, and politicians love that. The overcrowding at DCA is getting ridiculous and there's a lot of data to show for it. Unfortunately no one would listen before. Why do we need a daily direct flight between DCA and Wichita? The flight was added just last year at the personal lobbying of the Kansas senator - that is NOT a good look. No one dares to do more lobbying now.

The working group needs to build on this momentum. At a minimum, all the existing DCA routes should be reviewed to assess their necessity. Probably fine to keep some of the BOS/NYC/Chicago/NC/FL/short flights for the business travelers. But f**king move all the long-haul and random Wichita-type flights to IAD and BWI where they belong. If you are going to spend 3+ hours flying - the extra 30 minutes to IAD/BWI will not kill you. Not to mention there is now public transport to IAD.

Now is not the time to fight amongst MD/DC/VA on which side of the river the planes should fly over. We need to work together on this. Everyone will benefit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since Trump took over, I swear I’ve heard more flights out of Reagan than ever before- I don’t know if it’s New administration or mandatory return to office or what? Has anyone else noticed this?

I don't think so. I noticed just the opposite.

Where do you live?

We live in Kalorama