Airplane noise concerns overblown?

[Anonymous]

PG County will have a community meeting to discuss the changes in flight paths on May 20.
https://www.princegeorgescountymd.gov/departments-offices/environment/sustainability/get-involved/aircraft-noise

[Anonymous]

Interesting how they talk about successes of similar changes north of the airport. The only neighborhood that benefitted from any changes north of the airport is Potomac. The noise actually increased for the majority of the neighborhoods including Northern Virginia and Bethesda but no post implementation studies were ever done.

All the changes north of the airport were pushed thought without any participation from the affected communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting how they talk about successes of similar changes north of the airport. The only neighborhood that benefitted from any changes north of the airport is Potomac. The noise actually increased for the majority of the neighborhoods including Northern Virginia and Bethesda but no post implementation studies were ever done.

All the changes north of the airport were pushed thought without any participation from the affected communities.

There were no community meetings in Montgomery County. In fact the Working Group never notified Montgomery County residents about a public comment period that the FAA had opened for residents of Montgomery County to provide feedback on the changes in north flow departures.

Now they all call it a success. Based on what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting how they talk about successes of similar changes north of the airport. The only neighborhood that benefitted from any changes north of the airport is Potomac. The noise actually increased for the majority of the neighborhoods including Northern Virginia and Bethesda but no post implementation studies were ever done.

All the changes north of the airport were pushed thought without any participation from the affected communities.

There were no community meetings in Montgomery County. In fact the Working Group never notified Montgomery County residents about a public comment period that the FAA had opened for residents of Montgomery County to provide feedback on the changes in north flow departures.

Now they all call it a success. Based on what?

I can confirm it was the same with changes to approaches. A small group of Potomac residents who hold all the seats from Montgomery county on the working group worked with the FAA on shifting the flights to other neighborhoods. When the new procedure went into effect hundreds of complaints immediately poured in. The consultant summarized it as just part of the process. Nobody from the newly overflown communities was even consulted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting how they talk about successes of similar changes north of the airport. The only neighborhood that benefitted from any changes north of the airport is Potomac. The noise actually increased for the majority of the neighborhoods including Northern Virginia and Bethesda but no post implementation studies were ever done.

All the changes north of the airport were pushed thought without any participation from the affected communities.

There were no community meetings in Montgomery County. In fact the Working Group never notified Montgomery County residents about a public comment period that the FAA had opened for residents of Montgomery County to provide feedback on the changes in north flow departures.

Now they all call it a success. Based on what?

I can confirm it was the same with changes to approaches. A small group of Potomac residents who hold all the seats from Montgomery county on the working group worked with the FAA on shifting the flights to other neighborhoods. When the new procedure went into effect hundreds of complaints immediately poured in. The consultant summarized it as just part of the process. Nobody from the newly overflown communities was even consulted.

There was only one time when residents north of the airport were able to have their voices heard and they OVERWHELMINGLY rejected the efforts by the Working Group to shift the easterly flight towards the center of the river in 2021.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BQbxKd536E

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to ask, but can someone other than the clearly very-bothered individual who makes all of the airplane noise posts on this forum please chip in their perspectives on airplane noise in the Cabin John, Potomac, Glen Echo, Palisades neighborhoods? I was over there today and it didn't seem that bad.

This didn’t age well 😂
It is that bad and worse. Buy at your own peril

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the agenda items at the last Working Group meeting was a proposal for changing flight paths south of the airport. The areas affected are Fairfax County, Alexandria and Prince George's County. It involves both departures and arrivals.

Southbound departures currently travel along the Potomac River before making a turn to the west past Alexandria. The proposal eliminates the early turn over Alexandria/Fairfax County and extends the departure flight path further south to Accokeek. The goal is to allow airplanes to have an "unrestricted climb" so they could gain the altitude faster.

This is interesting because Montgomery County had the unrestricted climb scenario until a few years ago. However, Potomac residents did not like being near it and asked the FAA to introduce an early turn over Bethesda with the goal of stopping the airplanes from reaching Potomac. The airplanes that now make that early turn are very low and make a lot of noise.

So, if the Working Group thought the unrestricted climb was not good enough for Potomac in MoCo, why do they now believe it is good enough for Accokeek in Prince George's County?

The proposed solutions to the noise in Accokeek are minor. They involve a slight increase in the altitude of arrivals. All those who are involved with airplane noise know that 300 or 400 ft will make no difference. In fact, according to the Working Group a decrease in noise below 3db will not be audible to the human ear.

The Working Group continues to avoid discussions of decreasing the number of airplanes landing over Accokeek because there are those on the Working Group who refuse to share the noise equitably while only reaping benefits. Such solutions would not come from the consultant re-designing the flight path (it is not to his advantage anyways), but rather through direct talks between the Working Group participants and the FAA.

The explanation given for that particular design is that there are fewer people living in Accokeek and some further out parts of Fairfax than in Alexandria or other close-in communities. But the flight path for departures north of the airport was moved from scarcely populated compatible land to a densely populated area in Bethesda!

Are those less populated communities further out in Fairfax like Lorton or Occoquan represented on the Working Group? They will be affected. What is being done to reach out to them?

Public meetings will be held in PG, Alexandria and Fairfax County so that residents can learn about the proposal and decide on it. I hope this process will be transparent, well publicized, and will allow for full participation of all communities affected by the proposed changes.

Here's the presentation:
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2025-01/DCA%20SOA%20CWG%20Presentation%2020250123%20vFinal.pdf

Any updates?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting how they talk about successes of similar changes north of the airport. The only neighborhood that benefitted from any changes north of the airport is Potomac. The noise actually increased for the majority of the neighborhoods including Northern Virginia and Bethesda but no post implementation studies were ever done.

All the changes north of the airport were pushed thought without any participation from the affected communities.

How do Potomac residents have so much power over directing traffic? There are several posts here suggesting they they somehow are able to divert all the traffic from their area towards others with early turns from the river.

[Anonymous]

They don’t. This is just a story for the naive. The reality is that it’s better, cheaper and easier to fly where they are flying now. So avoid DC communities like Foxhall, Palisades, Berkeley, Kent, and then anything heading up Macarthur. There’s hardly anything there any longer so it’s mostly a tragedy only for the people who chose to buy those houses at inflated prices.

What’s tragic for everyone is Georgetown, not just the noise but the pollution. It should be better protected since it’s worth protecting. It’s not a bunch of architecturally questionable and water damaged housing like the rest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They don’t. This is just a story for the naive. The reality is that it’s better, cheaper and easier to fly where they are flying now. So avoid DC communities like Foxhall, Palisades, Berkeley, Kent, and then anything heading up Macarthur. There’s hardly anything there any longer so it’s mostly a tragedy only for the people who chose to buy those houses at inflated prices.

What’s tragic for everyone is Georgetown, not just the noise but the pollution. It should be better protected since it’s worth protecting. It’s not a bunch of architecturally questionable and water damaged housing like the rest.

I thought Gtown is considered protected historical area. TBH whenever I go there I don’t notice excessive airplane noise compared to anywhere else in NOVA, for example. there is an occasional airplane flying low, but they are weirdly rare.. I would expect every airplane flying over the Potomac next to Gtown, but it’s not the case. I found more paths in the sky where planes fly one after another 1 min apart in NOVA vs. Gtown. Maybe it’s not as noticeable, IDK. I definitely would notice airplanes flying low over the river in 1 min intervals.

[Anonymous]

Good point. I sometimes wonder if it’s that there’s so much to see in Georgetown so I don’t pay attention

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting how they talk about successes of similar changes north of the airport. The only neighborhood that benefitted from any changes north of the airport is Potomac. The noise actually increased for the majority of the neighborhoods including Northern Virginia and Bethesda but no post implementation studies were ever done.

All the changes north of the airport were pushed thought without any participation from the affected communities.

How do Potomac residents have so much power over directing traffic? There are several posts here suggesting they they somehow are able to divert all the traffic from their area towards others with early turns from the river.

You can ask the County. I think you are specifically referring to the change in 2021. These minutes were posted here many times. This is how it went:
Potomac resident on the Working group is asking the FAA to divert the departures away from Potomac AKA "over the river"
page 3:
"Asked if the FAA would be willing to reconsider the May 2017 FAA departure proposal which
would drop flights heading south and west to the river. For this later point in the procedure, we
would also like to start a conversation about several jumping off points for flights to the north
and east"

Montgomery County government rep repeating this request a bit later: page 5
"Subcommittee will be following up with the FAA on our #2 priority which may include a
previous FAA departure proposal. There are two themes: push flights over the Potomac River
and multiple jumping off points."

The communities such as Bethesda where the noise increased were not consulted or even informed. The FAA opened a comment period in 2020 to solicit feedback on the change and the placement of new waypoint directly over Glen Echo, but Montgomery County and the Working Group neglected to notify residents. There is zero communication to County residents from the County govt on any of these requests.

There was only one time when a proposal for presented to the community and that proposal was overwhelmingly rejected. It involved a shift of the easterly flight path towards Bethesda AKA "over the river".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting how they talk about successes of similar changes north of the airport. The only neighborhood that benefitted from any changes north of the airport is Potomac. The noise actually increased for the majority of the neighborhoods including Northern Virginia and Bethesda but no post implementation studies were ever done.

All the changes north of the airport were pushed thought without any participation from the affected communities.

How do Potomac residents have so much power over directing traffic? There are several posts here suggesting they they somehow are able to divert all the traffic from their area towards others with early turns from the river.

You can ask the County. I think you are specifically referring to the change in 2021. These minutes were posted here many times. This is how it went:
Potomac resident on the Working group is asking the FAA to divert the departures away from Potomac AKA "over the river"
page 3:
"Asked if the FAA would be willing to reconsider the May 2017 FAA departure proposal which
would drop flights heading south and west to the river. For this later point in the procedure, we
would also like to start a conversation about several jumping off points for flights to the north
and east"

Montgomery County government rep repeating this request a bit later: page 5
"Subcommittee will be following up with the FAA on our #2 priority which may include a
previous FAA departure proposal. There are two themes: push flights over the Potomac River
and multiple jumping off points."

The communities such as Bethesda where the noise increased were not consulted or even informed. The FAA opened a comment period in 2020 to solicit feedback on the change and the placement of new waypoint directly over Glen Echo, but Montgomery County and the Working Group neglected to notify residents. There is zero communication to County residents from the County govt on any of these requests.

There was only one time when a proposal for presented to the community and that proposal was overwhelmingly rejected. It involved a shift of the easterly flight path towards Bethesda AKA "over the river".

That's exactly how it goes. The link to the minutes is here. Potomac calls the shots. The County people are like their lackeys.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/legacyfiles/final_reagan_national_working_group_reg_meeting_33_summary_27_jun_2019_revised.pdf

[Anonymous]

There is a zoom meeting tonight about sending departures further south to mount. Vernon and accokeek.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a zoom meeting tonight about sending departures further south to mount. Vernon and accokeek.

I did not see anything in the news about these important meetings. I wonder about thoughts of those who attended.

Click on Meetings & Events
https://www.vianair.com/soa/