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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I'm so sick of working until 10 pm, then being kept awake by air traffic including helicopters, and then awakened again at 6 am.

I'm ready to join a letter-writing brigade or lead petitions.  I'm ready to become a one-issue voter over this.  They need a different solution, including just limiting the number of flights allowed to take off and land at DCA.

--Exhausted all the time in Bethesda[/quote]

Most of Bethesda has been impacted negatively by the recent changes in flight paths pushed through without any community input by the people on the DCA Noise Working Group.

All the noise abatement work in MoCo over the last 5 years was focused solely on one small area of Potomac and C.J. because all four MoCo seats on the DCA Working Group were filled by people from that area. They succeeded in eliminating all the departures and a large number of arrivals from Potomac by pushing departures south and closer to Bethesda neighborhoods south east of Glen Echo and diverting many arrivals to the Seven Locks Road corridor and the MacArthur Road corridor.

They don't appear to have any interest for now in bringing relief to other communities in MoCo by advocating for a better balance between southflow and northflow operations because it is not benefiting their community.

The FAA uses northflow as a default procedure, often irrespective of the direction of the winds. Hence a steady flow of jets taking off in the same direction to the North day after day.  In the past, community members and other representatives on the DCA Working Group tried to address this problem with the FAA, but MoCo reps get a fit every time somebody mentions it.

So, reach out to your County representatives on the DCA Community Working Group and tell them you want them to advocate for your neighborhood by asking the FAA to create a better balance between southflow and northflow operations. It is unlikely you will get a response but if you do, post it here. There are two County officials on that committee and both of them are theoretically supposed to work for all communities in Montgomery County. If you do not get a response, contact the County Council and the Office of Marc Elrich and let them know.

The DCA Community Working Group is meeting with the FAA at the end of January.[/quote]

Above may be largely true to some degree but I don’t think it is just because “four MoCo seats on the DCA Working Group were filled by people from that area.” Also before the pandemic, air traffic had been rerouted along the river so river communities were disproportionately impacted by increased air traffic often flying lower than before. Many CJ and Glen Echo residents were involved in the fight to reduce the sudden dramatic rise in air traffic

Cabin John citizen association has been working on this issue for many years. They voted to join the Montgomery County Quiet Skies Coalition in 2017. However, a later update in 2021 showed that many of their suggestions were not agreed upon by FAA  - so I doubt that it is a matter of the DCA Working Group not caring about the well being of other nearby communities.

https://cabinjohn.org/index.php/2017/02/23/take-action-against-excessive-airplane-noise/

Residents were encouraged to file complaints using the Metropolitan Washington Airport Authority’s (MWAA) DCA Noise Complaint Form. And to Write letters supporting the Reagan National Community Noise Working Group’s 6-point Plan The community representatives of the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority. Many local residents got involved.

Specifically, CJ residents asked the FAA to
- move navigation waypoints away from communities
- increase departure altitudes
- implement a runway rotation plan to scatter departure noise more equitably
- review approach procedures to determine changes necessary to reduce noise
- conduct area-wide noise assessment studies
- implement a 24/7 Fly Quiet Program

These measures were not just to help CJ and river communities but all impacted communities.

Although this battle has escalated in recent years, it is not new. 
[b]WoPo wrote an article on CJ residents fighting airplane noice nearly 50 years ago[/b] 
https://wapo.st/40cK8PY

[/quote]

Thank you for agreeing with the facts. The most important points remain:

1. All the changes in Montgomery County over the last 4 years were pushed through by the DCA Noise Working Group without any community input. Requests for outreach to the affected communities were ignored. Here's an example:

When the MoCo reps on the Working Group asked the FAA to move the departures closer to the densely populated communities in Bethesda, they failed to notify residents that the FAA had opened a comment period specifically for Montgomery County in 2020 to solicit feedback on the proposed change. Nobody knew of the proposed change or about the comment period so no feedback was received. The flight path was shifted from compatible land in Virginia towards the densely populated communities of Bethesda in 2021. The goal was to move the departures away from Potomac.

2. There is one viable solution for Bethesda and other communities that is currently not being considered because the MoCo members of the DCA Working Group are sabotaging the efforts. The communities north of the airport agreed that finding a better balance between departures and arrivals is their priority. This is from the list of priorities submitted to the FAA back in 2019:
"North flow/South flow split. The subcommittee looks forward to continuing to engage with the FAA on this topic and reviewing the forthcoming written FAA statement outlining operational considerations that impact flow decisions and North-South departure data with wind direction and velocity since 2015."

It very much matters what communities are represented on the DCA Working Group which is why every other jurisdiction has equal representation, except for MoCo and we are seeing the results of that. There was never any formal process for nominations in MoCo. And by the way the Quiet Skies Coalition and those on the Working Group are the same people.

The Working Group did not try to move the waypoints away from MoCo communities as you claim, but quite the opposite, with the exception of Potomac. The new procedure for departures in 2021 placed a new waypoint called RGiii directly over Glen Echo. Nobody in Glen Echo was notified. The MoCo reps on the Working Group also asked the FAA to move the final decent procedure for arriving aircraft from Potomac to Glen Echo (waypoint Daric) despite strong objections from those who knew what was going on. It was the FAA that saved Glen Echo and the surrounding area by responding that the location of the waypoint was not ideal for the new procedure and consequently moved it slightly west.

You mentioned efforts to increase the altitude. Strangely those efforts were focused only on the easterly flight path that goes over Cabin John. There was never any discussion about higher altitudes for the westerly flight path that was pushed towards Bethesda where airplanes are very low and loud because of the early turn. It matters who sits on the Working Group.

The link that you submitted is from 2017. You are talking about a different era. The DCA working group was very different then with different people and therefore different priorities. Bethesda was very involved with the Working Group in response to the FAA shifting its flight paths towards the Potomac River and Bethesda in 2016. The people who are currently representing MoCo on the Working Group disregarded all of it and pushed those flight paths even closer to Bethesda (!) without any community input while eliminating air traffic in their own neighborhood. It is unbelievable.

[/quote]

You sound very knowledgeable about the situation.

However, I would encourage you to talk to the CJ reps who are on the committee as they are genuine and well meaning people.

The update the community got in 2021 was that FAA was not open to discussing various proposed changes from two of three directions. I would not assume they are the ones blocking community inputs. I know that local residents were encouraged to request higher altitudes for all departing planes not just ones flying over CJ.

I agree that the working groups needs representation from all impacted MC communities.[/quote]

The FAA was not open to discussing many things. For years they said "dispersal was non-negotiable". Yet, it happened. All the MoCo taxpayers paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for the consultants to help one small area in Potomac move flights to other areas.  When residents from those other areas complained, the internal response on the Working group was "it is to be expected, it is part of the process".

It is time to move on to other areas in Montgomery County. There is one solution that can help all the communities north of the airport, with the exception of Potomac and Cabin John. We need a better balance between south flow and north flow operations. Yet, MoCo reps on the DCA Working Group are making sure those discussions do not happen.

Which well-meaning person from Cabin John do you suggest MoCo residents turn to? The one who shut down without any notice the listserv that MoCo residents used for discussing airplane noise, conveniently right before the changes started occurring? Or the one that tells Bethesda residents that they are to blame for buying a house closer to the airport along the river and therefore there is nothing that can be done for them about the noise?
[/quote]

I can’t speak to your allegations as I did not attend the meetings. The last comment makes no sense since CJ is closer to the river than Bethesda. It is ridiculous if they did say that. I am disappointed to hear about shutting down of list serve to discuss airplane noise and had not heard about that.

I can only speak to updates CJ residents received and the fact that we were encouraged to lobby for solutions that would help all impacted communities not just CJ.

As I said, I agree that the working committee needs representation from all impacted communities.  [/quote]

How does one become a member in the committee? I would be willing to dedicate a significant amount of my free time to increase awareness about this issue and unite people in the affected communities to do something.

Is the MoCo Quiet Skies organization actually being effective? I sent them a mail once asking how I could help and never heard back.[/quote]

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