Federal judge rules that admissions changes at nation’s top public school discriminate against Asian

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How would the changes affect a low-income Asian student from a non-feeder MS? Maybe EL student?

The only answer is “incredibly positively”. And oh by the way, “by design”.

You only think this is true because you don’t understand poor Asian families and wrongly believe they behave the same as poor non-Asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How would the changes affect a low-income Asian student from a non-feeder MS? Maybe EL student?
——
The only answer is “incredibly positively”. And oh by the way, “by design”.
——
You only think this is true because you don’t understand poor Asian families and wrongly believe they behave the same as poor non-Asians.

How would it negatively impact kids from low-income Asian family in non-feeder MS?

The kid would get bonus “points” for non-feeder MS, low income, and maybe EL.

[Anonymous]

The argument that people are “stealing” seats from Asian kids falls flat when we see that there are actually MORE Asian students at TJ now than a few years ago.

# of Asian students at TJ
21-22: 1,258
20-21: 1,299
19-20: 1,292
18-19: 1,244
17-18: 1,210

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The have hat has not been moved from the ultra wealthy communities to economically disadvantaged ones. The top TJ feeders like Carson and Rocky Run are still getting tons of kids in. Now schools that rarely got any one in, Poe/Glasgow/Whitman/whoever, are also assured a solid chunk of seats.

Which communities lost out? Middle class. Rich never give from themselves to low income. Frost went from something like 25 seats to 9, which is probably only the 1.5% they are required to get.

Not sure exactly how it impacted different schools but Elaine Tholen admitted to the McLean PTSA that the school, already overcrowded, picked up 20-30 additional freshmen from Longfellow last fall due to the TJ admissions changes.

This is the problem with how this TJ reform was done. Mclean has far fewer spots at TJ and the School Board did nothing to address the already existing issue with overcrowding at McLean High School ( which are now further overcrowded)

The good way would have been to effect reform at TJ and concurrently address issues at McLean, Langley, Marshall, Oakton, Chantilly and other schools impacted by the TJ policy change. Throw in some dollars to have advanced math/science classes.

The school board did not do that. Instead they fed the flames of "Asians are preppers and cheats". Reform did not have to be about us vs them. But you don't get political mileage unless you make the issue partisan. And this is what the school board did. Tholen was a deer in headlights when all this was happening.

They are certainly preppers, but not cheats, and the testing requirements were biased. Idk what you guys think, but they aren’t going back to the biased process

You are conflating two issues. Issue 1: The previous process was broken. Issue 2: The new process is fair/equitable. You will find many folks like me in agreement with Issue 1 - that process was broken (Curie exemplifies why it was broken) and we are not going back. Let us only talk about Issue 2. The new process is no good and largely because the School Board was in a hurry to implement. Any solution will likely result in fewer Asians at TJ. Most reasonable Asians would be ok as long as you soften the blow by offering some TJ like courses at their home schools. Instead we have had an approach where Braband and the school board have created a victor/vanquished dynamic and supported canards of "cheating Asians" to rally their idealogical base.

This makes no sense. You are assuming this but it's a strange assumption. What do "most reasonable XXXs" want? They don't want a better CS course for their senior year. They either want the cohort, if that is their goal, or they want the cachet, if that is their goal. Neither of those are achieved by adding DiffEq to Mclean. The first is achieved by -going to Mclean-.

I am not assuming. I would do it. Many that I know would do it. What I feel right now is that the school board has changed the rules of the game on TJ on me (my child's odds are way lower and it does not matter to my child - the impcated individual - that the School Board added yet another social justice badge of honor at his expense). Further, the Board has done nothing to fix overcrowding at Mclean (an issue that predates the TJ reform and the reform has further exacerbated it). To me it feels like the Board is tell me to eff-off and they will do anything they can because they have the power. I felt the same when McConnell reused to consider Merrick Garland for Scalia's seat. It was the tyranny of the majority. We have the power and we will ride roughshod over you.

So yes you can go on with your assumption that Asian parents want nothing less than a test that they can "game". It feeds the stereotype that has been assiduously cultivated on this Board - you cannot allow for the existence of reasonable Asian parents. Hence you advocate for this new broken process as the only alternative to the past one

I don't think you guys understand. I am an immigrant who came to this country 20 years back. I have encountered racism as a brown Asian man. However, this act of intentionally targeting people like me and my kids has been the worst by far. Calling us overrepresented and making policies to weed us out. Very upsetting. FCPS owes us an apology.

Are you going to continue to vote for every progressive during elections? If so, nothing is going to change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The have hat has not been moved from the ultra wealthy communities to economically disadvantaged ones. The top TJ feeders like Carson and Rocky Run are still getting tons of kids in. Now schools that rarely got any one in, Poe/Glasgow/Whitman/whoever, are also assured a solid chunk of seats.

Which communities lost out? Middle class. Rich never give from themselves to low income. Frost went from something like 25 seats to 9, which is probably only the 1.5% they are required to get.

Not sure exactly how it impacted different schools but Elaine Tholen admitted to the McLean PTSA that the school, already overcrowded, picked up 20-30 additional freshmen from Longfellow last fall due to the TJ admissions changes.

This is the problem with how this TJ reform was done. Mclean has far fewer spots at TJ and the School Board did nothing to address the already existing issue with overcrowding at McLean High School ( which are now further overcrowded)

The good way would have been to effect reform at TJ and concurrently address issues at McLean, Langley, Marshall, Oakton, Chantilly and other schools impacted by the TJ policy change. Throw in some dollars to have advanced math/science classes.

The school board did not do that. Instead they fed the flames of "Asians are preppers and cheats". Reform did not have to be about us vs them. But you don't get political mileage unless you make the issue partisan. And this is what the school board did. Tholen was a deer in headlights when all this was happening.

They are certainly preppers, but not cheats, and the testing requirements were biased. Idk what you guys think, but they aren’t going back to the biased process

You are conflating two issues. Issue 1: The previous process was broken. Issue 2: The new process is fair/equitable. You will find many folks like me in agreement with Issue 1 - that process was broken (Curie exemplifies why it was broken) and we are not going back. Let us only talk about Issue 2. The new process is no good and largely because the School Board was in a hurry to implement. Any solution will likely result in fewer Asians at TJ. Most reasonable Asians would be ok as long as you soften the blow by offering some TJ like courses at their home schools. Instead we have had an approach where Braband and the school board have created a victor/vanquished dynamic and supported canards of "cheating Asians" to rally their idealogical base.

This makes no sense. You are assuming this but it's a strange assumption. What do "most reasonable XXXs" want? They don't want a better CS course for their senior year. They either want the cohort, if that is their goal, or they want the cachet, if that is their goal. Neither of those are achieved by adding DiffEq to Mclean. The first is achieved by -going to Mclean-.

I am not assuming. I would do it. Many that I know would do it. What I feel right now is that the school board has changed the rules of the game on TJ on me (my child's odds are way lower and it does not matter to my child - the impcated individual - that the School Board added yet another social justice badge of honor at his expense). Further, the Board has done nothing to fix overcrowding at Mclean (an issue that predates the TJ reform and the reform has further exacerbated it). To me it feels like the Board is tell me to eff-off and they will do anything they can because they have the power. I felt the same when McConnell reused to consider Merrick Garland for Scalia's seat. It was the tyranny of the majority. We have the power and we will ride roughshod over you.

So yes you can go on with your assumption that Asian parents want nothing less than a test that they can "game". It feeds the stereotype that has been assiduously cultivated on this Board - you cannot allow for the existence of reasonable Asian parents. Hence you advocate for this new broken process as the only alternative to the past one

I don't think you guys understand. I am an immigrant who came to this country 20 years back. I have encountered racism as a brown Asian man. However, this act of intentionally targeting people like me and my kids has been the worst by far. Calling us overrepresented and making policies to weed us out. Very upsetting. FCPS owes us an apology.

The changes were targeted at wealthy families. Wealthy people don’t like that, so they’ve spared no expense to make you believe that the changes were about race, when in fact low-income Asian students were immeasurably helped by the changes. But it’s easier to get people angry if you claim racism.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Even poor Asians are harmed by these changes. Because poor Asians pay for prep. My DH’s family was one such family. DH, a first gen immigrant from one of the poorest nations on earth at the time, attended TJ, then a tippy top engineering program. Now we are rich, but we would never send our kids to TJ.

PP can you explain now why you would never send your kids to TJ? We are also upper middle class and can afford private schools, but if our kid got into TJ (or at least the old TJ) we would send them because of the academics. We are asian if that makes a difference. But I am interested to understand this rags-to-riches through TJ and then you don't want your kids to go there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The have hat has not been moved from the ultra wealthy communities to economically disadvantaged ones. The top TJ feeders like Carson and Rocky Run are still getting tons of kids in. Now schools that rarely got any one in, Poe/Glasgow/Whitman/whoever, are also assured a solid chunk of seats.

Which communities lost out? Middle class. Rich never give from themselves to low income. Frost went from something like 25 seats to 9, which is probably only the 1.5% they are required to get.

Not sure exactly how it impacted different schools but Elaine Tholen admitted to the McLean PTSA that the school, already overcrowded, picked up 20-30 additional freshmen from Longfellow last fall due to the TJ admissions changes.

This is the problem with how this TJ reform was done. Mclean has far fewer spots at TJ and the School Board did nothing to address the already existing issue with overcrowding at McLean High School ( which are now further overcrowded)

The good way would have been to effect reform at TJ and concurrently address issues at McLean, Langley, Marshall, Oakton, Chantilly and other schools impacted by the TJ policy change. Throw in some dollars to have advanced math/science classes.

The school board did not do that. Instead they fed the flames of "Asians are preppers and cheats". Reform did not have to be about us vs them. But you don't get political mileage unless you make the issue partisan. And this is what the school board did. Tholen was a deer in headlights when all this was happening.

They are certainly preppers, but not cheats, and the testing requirements were biased. Idk what you guys think, but they aren’t going back to the biased process

You are conflating two issues. Issue 1: The previous process was broken. Issue 2: The new process is fair/equitable. You will find many folks like me in agreement with Issue 1 - that process was broken (Curie exemplifies why it was broken) and we are not going back. Let us only talk about Issue 2. The new process is no good and largely because the School Board was in a hurry to implement. Any solution will likely result in fewer Asians at TJ. Most reasonable Asians would be ok as long as you soften the blow by offering some TJ like courses at their home schools. Instead we have had an approach where Braband and the school board have created a victor/vanquished dynamic and supported canards of "cheating Asians" to rally their idealogical base.

This makes no sense. You are assuming this but it's a strange assumption. What do "most reasonable XXXs" want? They don't want a better CS course for their senior year. They either want the cohort, if that is their goal, or they want the cachet, if that is their goal. Neither of those are achieved by adding DiffEq to Mclean. The first is achieved by -going to Mclean-.

I am not assuming. I would do it. Many that I know would do it. What I feel right now is that the school board has changed the rules of the game on TJ on me (my child's odds are way lower and it does not matter to my child - the impcated individual - that the School Board added yet another social justice badge of honor at his expense). Further, the Board has done nothing to fix overcrowding at Mclean (an issue that predates the TJ reform and the reform has further exacerbated it). To me it feels like the Board is tell me to eff-off and they will do anything they can because they have the power. I felt the same when McConnell reused to consider Merrick Garland for Scalia's seat. It was the tyranny of the majority. We have the power and we will ride roughshod over you.

So yes you can go on with your assumption that Asian parents want nothing less than a test that they can "game". It feeds the stereotype that has been assiduously cultivated on this Board - you cannot allow for the existence of reasonable Asian parents. Hence you advocate for this new broken process as the only alternative to the past one

I don't think you guys understand. I am an immigrant who came to this country 20 years back. I have encountered racism as a brown Asian man. However, this act of intentionally targeting people like me and my kids has been the worst by far. Calling us overrepresented and making policies to weed us out. Very upsetting. FCPS owes us an apology.

The changes were targeted at wealthy families. Wealthy people don’t like that, so they’ve spared no expense to make you believe that the changes were about race, when in fact low-income Asian students were immeasurably helped by the changes. But it’s easier to get people angry if you claim racism.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Even poor Asians are harmed by these changes. Because poor Asians pay for prep. My DH’s family was one such family. DH, a first gen immigrant from one of the poorest nations on earth at the time, attended TJ, then a tippy top engineering program. Now we are rich, but we would never send our kids to TJ.

Responding to multiple posts here. Two items:

1) The elimination of the exam removes the need for poor Asians to spend that money on prep and instead allows them to set aside that money for far more valuable educational ventures if they want.

2) Prior to the changes, less than 1% of TJ was economically disadvantaged. So even if those poor Asians WERE paying for prep, it wasn’t doing them much good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The have hat has not been moved from the ultra wealthy communities to economically disadvantaged ones. The top TJ feeders like Carson and Rocky Run are still getting tons of kids in. Now schools that rarely got any one in, Poe/Glasgow/Whitman/whoever, are also assured a solid chunk of seats.

Which communities lost out? Middle class. Rich never give from themselves to low income. Frost went from something like 25 seats to 9, which is probably only the 1.5% they are required to get.

Not sure exactly how it impacted different schools but Elaine Tholen admitted to the McLean PTSA that the school, already overcrowded, picked up 20-30 additional freshmen from Longfellow last fall due to the TJ admissions changes.

This is the problem with how this TJ reform was done. Mclean has far fewer spots at TJ and the School Board did nothing to address the already existing issue with overcrowding at McLean High School ( which are now further overcrowded)

The good way would have been to effect reform at TJ and concurrently address issues at McLean, Langley, Marshall, Oakton, Chantilly and other schools impacted by the TJ policy change. Throw in some dollars to have advanced math/science classes.

The school board did not do that. Instead they fed the flames of "Asians are preppers and cheats". Reform did not have to be about us vs them. But you don't get political mileage unless you make the issue partisan. And this is what the school board did. Tholen was a deer in headlights when all this was happening.

They are certainly preppers, but not cheats, and the testing requirements were biased. Idk what you guys think, but they aren’t going back to the biased process

You are conflating two issues. Issue 1: The previous process was broken. Issue 2: The new process is fair/equitable. You will find many folks like me in agreement with Issue 1 - that process was broken (Curie exemplifies why it was broken) and we are not going back. Let us only talk about Issue 2. The new process is no good and largely because the School Board was in a hurry to implement. Any solution will likely result in fewer Asians at TJ. Most reasonable Asians would be ok as long as you soften the blow by offering some TJ like courses at their home schools. Instead we have had an approach where Braband and the school board have created a victor/vanquished dynamic and supported canards of "cheating Asians" to rally their idealogical base.

This makes no sense. You are assuming this but it's a strange assumption. What do "most reasonable XXXs" want? They don't want a better CS course for their senior year. They either want the cohort, if that is their goal, or they want the cachet, if that is their goal. Neither of those are achieved by adding DiffEq to Mclean. The first is achieved by -going to Mclean-.

I am not assuming. I would do it. Many that I know would do it. What I feel right now is that the school board has changed the rules of the game on TJ on me (my child's odds are way lower and it does not matter to my child - the impcated individual - that the School Board added yet another social justice badge of honor at his expense). Further, the Board has done nothing to fix overcrowding at Mclean (an issue that predates the TJ reform and the reform has further exacerbated it). To me it feels like the Board is tell me to eff-off and they will do anything they can because they have the power. I felt the same when McConnell reused to consider Merrick Garland for Scalia's seat. It was the tyranny of the majority. We have the power and we will ride roughshod over you.

So yes you can go on with your assumption that Asian parents want nothing less than a test that they can "game". It feeds the stereotype that has been assiduously cultivated on this Board - you cannot allow for the existence of reasonable Asian parents. Hence you advocate for this new broken process as the only alternative to the past one

I don't think you guys understand. I am an immigrant who came to this country 20 years back. I have encountered racism as a brown Asian man. However, this act of intentionally targeting people like me and my kids has been the worst by far. Calling us overrepresented and making policies to weed us out. Very upsetting. FCPS owes us an apology.

The changes were targeted at wealthy families. Wealthy people don’t like that, so they’ve spared no expense to make you believe that the changes were about race, when in fact low-income Asian students were immeasurably helped by the changes. But it’s easier to get people angry if you claim racism.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Even poor Asians are harmed by these changes. Because poor Asians pay for prep. My DH’s family was one such family. DH, a first gen immigrant from one of the poorest nations on earth at the time, attended TJ, then a tippy top engineering program. Now we are rich, but we would never send our kids to TJ.

Responding to multiple posts here. Two items:

1) The elimination of the exam removes the need for poor Asians to spend that money on prep and instead allows them to set aside that money for far more valuable educational ventures if they want.

2) Prior to the changes, less than 1% of TJ was economically disadvantaged. So even if those poor Asians WERE paying for prep, it wasn’t doing them much good.

Oh, and 3) if they go to a non feeder school, which was the hypothetical, they get an experience factor bonus. And most poor Asians in FCPS do attend non-feeder schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How would the changes affect a low-income Asian student from a non-feeder MS? Maybe EL student?

The only answer is “incredibly positively”. And oh by the way, “by design”.

You only think this is true because you don’t understand poor Asian families and wrongly believe they behave the same as poor non-Asians.

No one said they behave the same, or assumed that they do. But they do live in different places than the wealthy Asians and they go to different schools, on balance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The have hat has not been moved from the ultra wealthy communities to economically disadvantaged ones. The top TJ feeders like Carson and Rocky Run are still getting tons of kids in. Now schools that rarely got any one in, Poe/Glasgow/Whitman/whoever, are also assured a solid chunk of seats.

Which communities lost out? Middle class. Rich never give from themselves to low income. Frost went from something like 25 seats to 9, which is probably only the 1.5% they are required to get.

Not sure exactly how it impacted different schools but Elaine Tholen admitted to the McLean PTSA that the school, already overcrowded, picked up 20-30 additional freshmen from Longfellow last fall due to the TJ admissions changes.

This is the problem with how this TJ reform was done. Mclean has far fewer spots at TJ and the School Board did nothing to address the already existing issue with overcrowding at McLean High School ( which are now further overcrowded)

The good way would have been to effect reform at TJ and concurrently address issues at McLean, Langley, Marshall, Oakton, Chantilly and other schools impacted by the TJ policy change. Throw in some dollars to have advanced math/science classes.

The school board did not do that. Instead they fed the flames of "Asians are preppers and cheats". Reform did not have to be about us vs them. But you don't get political mileage unless you make the issue partisan. And this is what the school board did. Tholen was a deer in headlights when all this was happening.

They are certainly preppers, but not cheats, and the testing requirements were biased. Idk what you guys think, but they aren’t going back to the biased process

You are conflating two issues. Issue 1: The previous process was broken. Issue 2: The new process is fair/equitable. You will find many folks like me in agreement with Issue 1 - that process was broken (Curie exemplifies why it was broken) and we are not going back. Let us only talk about Issue 2. The new process is no good and largely because the School Board was in a hurry to implement. Any solution will likely result in fewer Asians at TJ. Most reasonable Asians would be ok as long as you soften the blow by offering some TJ like courses at their home schools. Instead we have had an approach where Braband and the school board have created a victor/vanquished dynamic and supported canards of "cheating Asians" to rally their idealogical base.

This makes no sense. You are assuming this but it's a strange assumption. What do "most reasonable XXXs" want? They don't want a better CS course for their senior year. They either want the cohort, if that is their goal, or they want the cachet, if that is their goal. Neither of those are achieved by adding DiffEq to Mclean. The first is achieved by -going to Mclean-.

I am not assuming. I would do it. Many that I know would do it. What I feel right now is that the school board has changed the rules of the game on TJ on me (my child's odds are way lower and it does not matter to my child - the impcated individual - that the School Board added yet another social justice badge of honor at his expense). Further, the Board has done nothing to fix overcrowding at Mclean (an issue that predates the TJ reform and the reform has further exacerbated it). To me it feels like the Board is tell me to eff-off and they will do anything they can because they have the power. I felt the same when McConnell reused to consider Merrick Garland for Scalia's seat. It was the tyranny of the majority. We have the power and we will ride roughshod over you.

So yes you can go on with your assumption that Asian parents want nothing less than a test that they can "game". It feeds the stereotype that has been assiduously cultivated on this Board - you cannot allow for the existence of reasonable Asian parents. Hence you advocate for this new broken process as the only alternative to the past one

I don't think you guys understand. I am an immigrant who came to this country 20 years back. I have encountered racism as a brown Asian man. However, this act of intentionally targeting people like me and my kids has been the worst by far. Calling us overrepresented and making policies to weed us out. Very upsetting. FCPS owes us an apology.

The changes were targeted at wealthy families. Wealthy people don’t like that, so they’ve spared no expense to make you believe that the changes were about race, when in fact low-income Asian students were immeasurably helped by the changes. But it’s easier to get people angry if you claim racism.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Even poor Asians are harmed by these changes. Because poor Asians pay for prep. My DH’s family was one such family. DH, a first gen immigrant from one of the poorest nations on earth at the time, attended TJ, then a tippy top engineering program. Now we are rich, but we would never send our kids to TJ.

PP can you explain now why you would never send your kids to TJ? We are also upper middle class and can afford private schools, but if our kid got into TJ (or at least the old TJ) we would send them because of the academics. We are asian if that makes a difference. But I am interested to understand this rags-to-riches through TJ and then you don't want your kids to go there.

DP here, Asian, first-gen "rags to riches" immigrant, who also would never send our kids to TJ because it's not a good match for them. Our kids do pretty well at their home school and we value the sense of community that they get by going to the same school that their nearby friends go to. Our kids are also not sure if they want to go end up in a STEM field. Lastly, and this is perhaps the most important consideration: based on our experience "making it" it just seems to us that developing relationships and networks is a more useful skill to kids who are not hyper-capable at math and science. TJ is a wonderful school but it is not a school for everyone, and not certainly for all Asians. People want different things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The argument that people are “stealing” seats from Asian kids falls flat when we see that there are actually MORE Asian students at TJ now than a few years ago.

# of Asian students at TJ
21-22: 1,258
20-21: 1,299
19-20: 1,292
18-19: 1,244
17-18: 1,210

What would you think if you worked your ass off, but your boss takes away your bonus and gives it your colleague and says, 'you have no reason to complain as bonus still stays with in our team'? This really stings for many parents who put kids education over everything else including those who you would normally consider liberal. These are the parents who live in areas with 'good' schools and/or with kids who attend AAP center schools.

I am not sure why this is so difficult to understand. I consider myself liberal and always voted for progressives, but I would fight back if I feel that my kid isn't getting his/her fair chance. I don't mind providing additional resources, training and incentives for under represented kids, spending money towards them and/or try to keep the level playing field (discount activities/education that under privileged cannot afford etc), but don't intentionally limit my kids chances by introducing quotas or arbitrarily giving bonus points to others. TJ is no longer a true magnet school, it is just made up of bunch of groups and actual competition is now with in the each group i.e. infighting.

My kid(s) aren't exactly at the level of traditional TJ kids (well, at least according to older admission process), but it still hurts to think what is happening to TJ in the name of 'race'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument that people are “stealing” seats from Asian kids falls flat when we see that there are actually MORE Asian students at TJ now than a few years ago.

# of Asian students at TJ
21-22: 1,258
20-21: 1,299
19-20: 1,292
18-19: 1,244
17-18: 1,210

What would you think if you worked your ass off, but your boss takes away your bonus and gives it your colleague and says, 'you have no reason to complain as bonus still stays with in our team'? This really stings for many parents who put kids education over everything else including those who you would normally consider liberal. These are the parents who live in areas with 'good' schools and/or with kids who attend AAP center schools.

I am not sure why this is so difficult to understand. I consider myself liberal and always voted for progressives, but I would fight back if I feel that my kid isn't getting his/her fair chance. I don't mind providing additional resources, training and incentives for under represented kids, spending money towards them and/or try to keep the level playing field (discount activities/education that under privileged cannot afford etc), but don't intentionally limit my kids chances by introducing quotas or arbitrarily giving bonus points to others. TJ is no longer a true magnet school, it is just made up of bunch of groups and actual competition is now with in the each group i.e. infighting.

My kid(s) aren't exactly at the level of traditional TJ kids (well, at least according to older admission process), but it still hurts to think what is happening to TJ in the name of 'race'.

We've always given out 1000 bonuses. People who have received those bonuses will continue to get them. A handful of other people will get bonuses too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The argument that people are “stealing” seats from Asian kids falls flat when we see that there are actually MORE Asian students at TJ now than a few years ago.

# of Asian students at TJ
21-22: 1,258
20-21: 1,299
19-20: 1,292
18-19: 1,244
17-18: 1,210

That data means nothing without looking at the whole population.

2017 to 2019 -- were there less Asian American students as a whole in FCPS?

Then look at the trend between 2019 and 2021, then 2021/2022.

Whole numbers mean nothing. You need to look at the rate.

(I never realized how simple data analysis was so difficult for some people)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The argument that people are “stealing” seats from Asian kids falls flat when we see that there are actually MORE Asian students at TJ now than a few years ago.

# of Asian students at TJ
21-22: 1,258
20-21: 1,299
19-20: 1,292
18-19: 1,244
17-18: 1,210

What would you think if you worked your ass off, but your boss takes away your bonus and gives it your colleague and says, 'you have no reason to complain as bonus still stays with in our team'? This really stings for many parents who put kids education over everything else including those who you would normally consider liberal. These are the parents who live in areas with 'good' schools and/or with kids who attend AAP center schools.

I am not sure why this is so difficult to understand. I consider myself liberal and always voted for progressives, but I would fight back if I feel that my kid isn't getting his/her fair chance. I don't mind providing additional resources, training and incentives for under represented kids, spending money towards them and/or try to keep the level playing field (discount activities/education that under privileged cannot afford etc), but don't intentionally limit my kids chances by introducing quotas or arbitrarily giving bonus points to others. TJ is no longer a true magnet school, it is just made up of bunch of groups and actual competition is now with in the each group i.e. infighting.

My kid(s) aren't exactly at the level of traditional TJ kids (well, at least according to older admission process), but it still hurts to think what is happening to TJ in the name of 'race'.

It is incredibly naive to think that the competition and infighting wasn't happening before the changes to the admissions process.

Representation matters. Diversity creates a stronger learning environment and a better education, with students more prepared to serve their communities.

The Asian students who go to TJ under the new admissions standards (where they still constitute a majority of the new incoming class) will leave TJ with a greater ability to understand the life experiences of people who look different from them. And to be quite honest, they'll escape some of the unfortunate stereotypes that their parents bring to places like DCUM before they go off to college.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The argument that people are “stealing” seats from Asian kids falls flat when we see that there are actually MORE Asian students at TJ now than a few years ago.

# of Asian students at TJ
21-22: 1,258
20-21: 1,299
19-20: 1,292
18-19: 1,244
17-18: 1,210

What would you think if you worked your ass off, but your boss takes away your bonus and gives it your colleague and says, 'you have no reason to complain as bonus still stays with in our team'? This really stings for many parents who put kids education over everything else including those who you would normally consider liberal. These are the parents who live in areas with 'good' schools and/or with kids who attend AAP center schools.

I am not sure why this is so difficult to understand. I consider myself liberal and always voted for progressives, but I would fight back if I feel that my kid isn't getting his/her fair chance. I don't mind providing additional resources, training and incentives for under represented kids, spending money towards them and/or try to keep the level playing field (discount activities/education that under privileged cannot afford etc), but don't intentionally limit my kids chances by introducing quotas or arbitrarily giving bonus points to others. TJ is no longer a true magnet school, it is just made up of bunch of groups and actual competition is now with in the each group i.e. infighting.

My kid(s) aren't exactly at the level of traditional TJ kids (well, at least according to older admission process), but it still hurts to think what is happening to TJ in the name of 'race'.

We've always given out 1000 bonuses. People who have received those bonuses will continue to get them. A handful of other people will get bonuses too.

You would think so.. but AAP centers have only sent half as many kids compared to earlier. Tell this to the other half that they still got their bonus

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Anonymous wrote:The have hat has not been moved from the ultra wealthy communities to economically disadvantaged ones. The top TJ feeders like Carson and Rocky Run are still getting tons of kids in. Now schools that rarely got any one in, Poe/Glasgow/Whitman/whoever, are also assured a solid chunk of seats.

Which communities lost out? Middle class. Rich never give from themselves to low income. Frost went from something like 25 seats to 9, which is probably only the 1.5% they are required to get.

Not sure exactly how it impacted different schools but Elaine Tholen admitted to the McLean PTSA that the school, already overcrowded, picked up 20-30 additional freshmen from Longfellow last fall due to the TJ admissions changes.

This is the problem with how this TJ reform was done. Mclean has far fewer spots at TJ and the School Board did nothing to address the already existing issue with overcrowding at McLean High School ( which are now further overcrowded)

The good way would have been to effect reform at TJ and concurrently address issues at McLean, Langley, Marshall, Oakton, Chantilly and other schools impacted by the TJ policy change. Throw in some dollars to have advanced math/science classes.

The school board did not do that. Instead they fed the flames of "Asians are preppers and cheats". Reform did not have to be about us vs them. But you don't get political mileage unless you make the issue partisan. And this is what the school board did. Tholen was a deer in headlights when all this was happening.

They are certainly preppers, but not cheats, and the testing requirements were biased. Idk what you guys think, but they aren’t going back to the biased process

You are conflating two issues. Issue 1: The previous process was broken. Issue 2: The new process is fair/equitable. You will find many folks like me in agreement with Issue 1 - that process was broken (Curie exemplifies why it was broken) and we are not going back. Let us only talk about Issue 2. The new process is no good and largely because the School Board was in a hurry to implement. Any solution will likely result in fewer Asians at TJ. Most reasonable Asians would be ok as long as you soften the blow by offering some TJ like courses at their home schools. Instead we have had an approach where Braband and the school board have created a victor/vanquished dynamic and supported canards of "cheating Asians" to rally their idealogical base.

This makes no sense. You are assuming this but it's a strange assumption. What do "most reasonable XXXs" want? They don't want a better CS course for their senior year. They either want the cohort, if that is their goal, or they want the cachet, if that is their goal. Neither of those are achieved by adding DiffEq to Mclean. The first is achieved by -going to Mclean-.

I am not assuming. I would do it. Many that I know would do it. What I feel right now is that the school board has changed the rules of the game on TJ on me (my child's odds are way lower and it does not matter to my child - the impcated individual - that the School Board added yet another social justice badge of honor at his expense). Further, the Board has done nothing to fix overcrowding at Mclean (an issue that predates the TJ reform and the reform has further exacerbated it). To me it feels like the Board is tell me to eff-off and they will do anything they can because they have the power. I felt the same when McConnell reused to consider Merrick Garland for Scalia's seat. It was the tyranny of the majority. We have the power and we will ride roughshod over you.

So yes you can go on with your assumption that Asian parents want nothing less than a test that they can "game". It feeds the stereotype that has been assiduously cultivated on this Board - you cannot allow for the existence of reasonable Asian parents. Hence you advocate for this new broken process as the only alternative to the past one

I don't think you guys understand. I am an immigrant who came to this country 20 years back. I have encountered racism as a brown Asian man. However, this act of intentionally targeting people like me and my kids has been the worst by far. Calling us overrepresented and making policies to weed us out. Very upsetting. FCPS owes us an apology.

The changes were targeted at wealthy families. Wealthy people don’t like that, so they’ve spared no expense to make you believe that the changes were about race, when in fact low-income Asian students were immeasurably helped by the changes. But it’s easier to get people angry if you claim racism.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Even poor Asians are harmed by these changes. Because poor Asians pay for prep. My DH’s family was one such family. DH, a first gen immigrant from one of the poorest nations on earth at the time, attended TJ, then a tippy top engineering program. Now we are rich, but we would never send our kids to TJ.

PP can you explain now why you would never send your kids to TJ? We are also upper middle class and can afford private schools, but if our kid got into TJ (or at least the old TJ) we would send them because of the academics. We are asian if that makes a difference. But I am interested to understand this rags-to-riches through TJ and then you don't want your kids to go there.

DP here, Asian, first-gen "rags to riches" immigrant, who also would never send our kids to TJ because it's not a good match for them. Our kids do pretty well at their home school and we value the sense of community that they get by going to the same school that their nearby friends go to. Our kids are also not sure if they want to go end up in a STEM field. Lastly, and this is perhaps the most important consideration: based on our experience "making it" it just seems to us that developing relationships and networks is a more useful skill to kids who are not hyper-capable at math and science. TJ is a wonderful school but it is not a school for everyone, and not certainly for all Asians. People want different things.

I'm rich, Asian, and love TJ for the networking. But honestly, I am glad others don't want to send their kids so we have less competition.