Reported hazing incident involving Damascus High School JV Football team

[Anonymous]

Likely charged as adults because they clearly knew what they were doing, intended what they were doing, knew it was wrong, but carried on because it was “tradition.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That isn’t enough though to be a deterrent. The coaches and admin need to be disciplined too. Well, the coaches need to be fired.

Charging them as adults and also disciplining/firing coaches might act as deterrent IMO. At least it would hopefully shock the system out of its' complacency. I am sickened by this crime, truly horrendous.

The MCPS System Wide Athletic Director also needs to go. He signed an athletic waiver for a boy who who had disciplinary problems that prompted him being transferred out of Clarksburg HS to Damascus HS. Why would a kid with his record be allowed to play sports let alone be given a special exemption from the COSA rules of sitting out one year?

Why? He must have been a good football player. So exactly, I agree..the Director needs to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And wtop says they were all granted bail.
So. Since they are 15- does this mean MCPS will be sending home teachers to them? Or will they be going to another MCPS school? Or the Blair Ewing center?
And BTW the state’s attorney said he was offended by calling the actions “hazing” (*memo to Dr Smith, listen up!) and stressed that these actions were violent rapes.

So glad to know this. Yes, it was offensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With regard to the earlies post about youth being charged as adults, I agree.
Either charge all youth as adults or none. It makes no sense for it to be based on media coverage, outrage or the height of the youth

We are already in a system where the person with the more expensive lawyer wins

They are being charged as adults because the crime for an adult carries a maximum sentence of life in prison. Not because of media coverage or otherwise.

This is a criminal case and will be tried by the state, not a high paid attorney
.

That is exactly my point. If you do not have money, you will get a harsher sentence as you cannot afford the same legal counsel as I J Simpson

If they are being charged as adults because the sentence is life in prison, then why not if sentence is 10 years or 5 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have read this whole thread and unlike most people in this county, I did actually research the BOE candidates. I purposely didn't vote for incumbents because I have found that they are not competent enough to use a potato gun let alone sit on the BOE. MCPS has done a downward spiral. Yes they just sweep everything under the rug. They are too political and inept. If they would put as much effort into making education, schools and our kids a priority as they do complaining about a flipping school calendar or screwing up the school start times, we may actually have a functioning school.

I am sorry but if you have been to Damascus or played sports at Damascus. If you have played football on the Cougars or if you have had a child who has, you know the mentality. It is all about the football. I am not saying that is a bad thing, but it puts an awful lot of pressure on these kids. Why don't you think the Damascus coaches have been dismissed? The coaches are all about winning. Damascus has a historical record. Well, they have a winning team, folks. Winning teams bring good publicity. People want to be apart of a winning team and that brings money. They made it a point to state varsity wasn't involved despite they didn't cover their tracks because some of those alleged rapists played on varsity for games.

Case and point, Seneca Valley had a team who was "hazing." The coaches were dismissed for lack of supervision. To me, it seemed to happen pretty quickly after the media got wind of it.

Unfortunately, I really don't think that this is the first occurrence of what MCPS, who seems to be in denial that rape occurred, refers to as hazing. Maybe it has not gone to the extent of rape at Damascus in the past, but there were parents who admitted that they knew that some "mild hazing" was tradition on that particular day. Hazing is not a tradition ever. It is a crime. Anyone who turned a blind cheek is responsible and should be ashamed of themselves.

Kudos to those kids who were brave enough to come forward and kudos to whomever leaked it to the media because I guarantee if someone didn't leak it, nothing would be done. I read on social media, so don't quote me, that one of the victims was an officer's child. You think MCPD is not going to investigate this with a fine tooth comb when it comes to an officer's kid being harmed? It doesn't even have to be an MCPD officer. This is not going away and I guarantee that there will be more dirty laundry aired about MCPS when this is all over.

These kids were charged as adults because they found it to be first degree rape. First degree!!!! That means it was premeditated. It was planned. They planned to rape or attempt to rape. That is not group psychology or peer pressure. This was not a caught up in the moment event. There is enough evidence to show it was planned. I understand a 15 year old does not have a fully developed brain until after 21, but they do know right from wrong. Unfortunately, they made a choice to follow through with one of the worst crimes you can possibly commit. I feel for their parents. I feel for the victims and to be honest, I feel for those alleged rapists. They had so much potential and their whole lives ahead of them. In one minute, they made a choice which has basically ruined their lives and the lives of others.

Nobody should be thrilled that they are most likely going to be serving time. Nobody wins here and if you think about it, it is sad all around. However, if they had raped a 4 year old little girl or boy, would we claim they shouldn't be charged as adults? Their victims will suffer a lifetime. Their victims will forever be traumatized and scarred. Unless there is some serious brain damage that prevents them from being able to distinguish right from wrong, they should suffer the consequences.

As for MCPS and Damascus, they should have called it what it was and it wasn't hazing. It is an absolute disgrace that they referred to it as hazing. It was rape. Sending out a video was a piss poor way to deal with any of this. Use peer pressure to make a change. Suspend the whole team for a game, two or a season for anyone caught hazing or bullying. These kids know what is going on. There is talk about what is going to happen. However, parents don't want their poor little Randy to suffer for someone else's actions. Well, maybe if Randy knew that the actions of his teammates affects him as well, he would step up and prevent nonsense like this or tell someone so it can be prevented.

Sexual assaults, bullying, verbal abuse, etc. is not anything new at MCPS. Look at how many child molesters and rapes have occurred throughout the years by staff. The teacher was correct. They don't do constant background checks. They don't concern themselves with the safety of schools and kids. They sweep things under the rug. Have you ever been to a meeting where they bring the school in that your child is going to go to because they want to have a "positive" conversation about how great that school is? That is usually an indication that the school has a tremendous amount of issues. However, instead of addressing it, they are concerned about diversity, jamming more kids into already overcrowded and failing schools and giving the Superintendent as Athletic Director huge salary increases.

The Superintendent is completely ineffective and non-responsive. I have emailed him several times. I have received zero response. Zero. To be honest, I think the taxpayers should be able to vote whether these higher ups get a raise or not. That would increase efficiency.

Our teachers do not have the support they need. Someone was correct. Most of the time, they do not have principals who are leaders. Parents should have the choice to send their kid to a different school when the school in their boundary is overcrowded and not up to par.

You want to know why when one kid is expelled from one school they can just go to another? They shut down the remedial schools because they didn't want to make the kids "feel bad" and God forbid choosing to be PC is so much better than address the actual issue. My child has several kids in his class who have what he calls "anger issues." Yes, there is maybe one that has a true anger issue. The others? Basically, their parents let them do whatever they want and so they have a temper tantrum when someone tells them no. They are violent, disruptive, rude, they bully and it effects my child's ability to learn. Teachers should not have to deal with kids inability to behave or who continuously disrupt learning. They do nothing about bullying. When I was in school, kids who could not behave themselves went to Mark Twain. It wasn't for some 45 day stint either. Yes, this is the BOE who you continue to elect who continue to make decisions that place your child in jeopardy.

The curriculum is ridiculous. Teachers have complained about it, but MCPS still does nothing. In the schools that have more minorities, are more poverty stricken and/or have a high level of non-English speaking kids, teachers don't send home homework. Why? Because the parents can't help them, not involved and therefore the homework is not returned. Instead of creating programs to help these kids excel. reducing the number of students in that school and setting expectations so they can better assist kids, they continue to overcrowd the school, reduce the work to make it easier and that makes their scores look a little better. In the event that your child is on a higher level, he or she suffers the setback too.

MCPS hasn't done a boundary study in centuries...yes centuries. They say they know they need a school here and there, but they haven't done a boundary study? Did you realize that MCPS puts kids on a bus ride that is an hour or more one way to certain schools when there is a school that is maybe a 20-30 minute ride? When you bring it to their attention, they tell you to have your child take a phone to pass the time. We need a complete overhaul of boundaries.

Someone mentioned that they have all of this money but have not built a new school? Why build a new school? It is cheaper to shove your kids in portables right? Have you seen the number of portables at some of these schools? It is completely asinine.

Nothing is going to change until we start demanding changes. We need to start attending the BOE meetings to let the BOE know that we are watching and put pressure on them to actually do what they were elected to do. In addition, we need to start voting the people who continue to put politics before our childrens' education, safety and well being out of office.

I agree 100% with every single thing you have written. I am a parent with kids in MCPS and am very involved, both as a school volunteer and in the PTA. I hear this from many teachers and it has definitely been what I have experienced in MCPS.

I voted for a real change agent in the last election (not the most recent) - Jill Ortman Fouse. She did not run for reelection. She fought for more accountability, and the lengths she had to go to in order to get answers from the system is appalling. Read her FB posts. I hope she writes a book. I also agree with the prior posters, and it is tragic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the reasoning for trying them as adults instead of as juveniles?

The State's attorney said that by law 1st degree rape is always transferred to adult/criminal court. The attorneys for the defendants can request a waiver to have it sent back to juvenile court.

The attorneys for the defendants HAVE requested a waiver to have it sent back to juvenile court.

That courtroom is going to be filled to the brim. Can’t wait for the names to be released.

Names?

Names of the perpetrators is already in the news. The names and identity of victims should be protected.

The students being charged are Jean Claude "JC" Abedi, Kristian "KJ" Jamal Lee, Will Daniel Smith, and Caleb Thorpe. All four are 15 years old, but are being charged as adults, prosecutors said.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/high-school-football-players-charged-allegedly-raping-teammates/story?id=59447772

This ABC news story makes it clear that this had been going on in the program for a while. It is mind boggling that the varsity team played. I hope the MCPD really do their best work on this. Yet another example of why MCPS needs to be restructured - too many bureaucrats and not enough guidance counselors. Sick.

The third victim told investigators that he had heard people refer to the act in the past as "giving the broom to people."

[Anonymous]

MCPS is so poorly run. This is how you respond to hazing. The actual abuse was much less than what happened in Damascus, but the University took timely action and did so proactively.

https://wtop.com/prince-georges-county/2018/11/bowie-state-university-music-director-resigns-band-on-probation-amid-hazing-investigation/

The renowned Symphony of Soul band program at Bowie State University is now on probation and its music director has resigned following findings of student hazing.

The school launched an internal investigation into complaints of hazing after two students came forward in early November.

[...]

For the month during the investigation, every ensemble was suspended from activity. Now, during the probationary period, student musicians will not able to travel, compete or play at athletic events for the rest of the school year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is so poorly run. This is how you respond to hazing. The actual abuse was much less than what happened in Damascus, but the University took timely action and did so proactively.

https://wtop.com/prince-georges-county/2018/11/bowie-state-university-music-director-resigns-band-on-probation-amid-hazing-investigation/

The renowned Symphony of Soul band program at Bowie State University is now on probation and its music director has resigned following findings of student hazing.

The school launched an internal investigation into complaints of hazing after two students came forward in early November.

[...]

For the month during the investigation, every ensemble was suspended from activity. Now, during the probationary period, student musicians will not able to travel, compete or play at athletic events for the rest of the school year.

ITA this is how these situations should be handled, especially if there is evidence of ongoing misbehavior.

For the case at hand, no one is suggesting these rapists serve life in prison (if found guilty). But there is a HUGE difference in the "slap on the wrist approach" they would experience if kept within the juvenile system vs. the adult system.

[Anonymous]

Those who think this is a Board of Education problem haven't been to Board of Education meetings and have no idea what you are talking about. Several of them Jill Ortman Fouse as someone mentioned, Rebecca Smondrowsky, Jeanette Dixon, Shebra Evan's and even Pat O'Neill who people here love to vilify, have repeatedly asked the MCPS staff for more information about everything from maintenance orders (thousands outstanding), to numbers enrolled to COSA, etc. Zuckerman and others either give BS answers or say we will get back to you and either don't or again, more BS answers. Zuckerman is the puppet master, a Starr holdover (as someone else mentioned) and needs to go. Along with many other central office staff. Smith is working on this, but apparently not fast enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those who think this is a Board of Education problem haven't been to Board of Education meetings and have no idea what you are talking about. Several of them Jill Ortman Fouse as someone mentioned, Rebecca Smondrowsky, Jeanette Dixon, Shebra Evan's and even Pat O'Neill who people here love to vilify, have repeatedly asked the MCPS staff for more information about everything from maintenance orders (thousands outstanding), to numbers enrolled to COSA, etc. Zuckerman and others either give BS answers or say we will get back to you and either don't or again, more BS answers. Zuckerman is the puppet master, a Starr holdover (as someone else mentioned) and needs to go. Along with many other central office staff. Smith is working on this, but apparently not fast enough.

The Board Members if they cared should keep following up with MCPS for answers if they wanted to fix the school system.

All of the members you have mentioned have supported MCPS indifference to solving the child abuse epidemic in our public school system. The case at Damascus made national headlines because the perpetrators arrested are children that are facing life in prison. Jill Ortman House, Rebecca Smondrowsky, Jeanette Dixon, Shebra Evans, and Pat O'Neill have all accepted MCPS's platitudes as to what it is doing to prevent child abuse when there is evidence the school system has not followed Board policies or implemented a process for child abuse to be reported by parents.

If you go to the Child Abuse and Neglect website, what form on that website would you use to report child abuse to MCPS after you call CPS? The only form on the website is for employees to report child abuse and by design, there is not much room for an employee to provide the pertinent details that CPS needs to trigger an investigation.

How long should you wait for MCPS to respond when you contact them regarding someone at school who is abusing students (it could be a staff member or student)? The answer is there is no timeline or process developed by MCPS yet.

Then there is the common practice by MCPS to investigate prior to the police and/or CPS investigation. If an MCPS administrator can screw up a case so it doesn't reflect poorly on their record as a school administrator, you bet they will try.

Current Board members are all complacent with MCPS's failure to adequately PREVENT child abuse from occurring. The red flag that should have prevented the rapes at Damascus from occurring was the transfer of the student from Clarksburg and the provision of the athletic waiver by the MCPS System-wide Athletic Director. MCPS should have not transfer the kid from Clarksburg due to disciplinary issues let alone provide him an athletic waiver.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is maryland law but if you read the espn article above you see that this has been going on in for a while. It’s happened in multiple settings and multiple states but it appears that most get off with a slap on the wrist. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be penalized. I just don’t think they should face life in prison. These kids for some reason are the ones that have been chosen to made an example of getting nation wide attention.

No child should face life in prison. That's not justice. And to tolerate or look the other way when hazing like this goes on only to decide now to punish the kids is also a sign that maybe it has something to do with who the father of a victim is, or the skin color of the children who committed the crime.

This should not be swept under the rug, and the adults who allowed it to happen need to be punished. The children who committed the crime also need to be punished, but in a way that is appropriate for children so they get proper treatment and is geared towards their rehabilitation.

I'm disgusted that the idea of life in prison for them is even a thought that people would have.

You are wrong in a lot of this, but most importantly, this is NOT hazing.

This is violent gang rape.

Calling it hazing is starting from the wrong premise.

[Anonymous]

If actual abuse were happening, I would be calling the police first and mcps second. I wouldn't be waiting for an mcps response on anything...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If actual abuse were happening, I would be calling the police first and mcps second. I wouldn't be waiting for an mcps response on anything...

The reality is that unless your child is the son of a Montgomery County Police Officer, most reports of abuse are not investigated. This is especially the case when MCPS does not follow procedures, interferes with a potential police investigation and MCPS fails to report child abuse.

However, yes, a parent should always first report child abuse to CPS and if sexual abuse, to the police before contacting MCPS.

[Anonymous]

We have grade eligibility requirements before kids can be on sports teams, but we don’t require any evidence of good behavior or good character. This needs to change. A kid who is expelled should not be allowed to transfer and play on a new team. Start looking at office referrals and disciplinary measures. And as for the pp who said Dr. Smith “is working on” getting rid of corrupt people in central, what is there to work on? He’s got the power to just act. Get rid of the AD Jeff Sullivan and get rid of the people impeding investigations etc. Just do it. He needs to set aside personal relationships and help the community heal. This requires taking big steps, not double talk and dumb videos and delay tactics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have grade eligibility requirements before kids can be on sports teams, but we don’t require any evidence of good behavior or good character. This needs to change. A kid who is expelled should not be allowed to transfer and play on a new team. Start looking at office referrals and disciplinary measures. And as for the pp who said Dr. Smith “is working on” getting rid of corrupt people in central, what is there to work on? He’s got the power to just act. Get rid of the AD Jeff Sullivan and get rid of the people impeding investigations etc. Just do it. He needs to set aside personal relationships and help the community heal. This requires taking big steps, not double talk and dumb videos and delay tactics.

+1000 Damascus needs Dr. Smith to take real action to fix what is broken in the school and in central office. The principal, coaches, and Jeff Sullivan bear the blame for the culture in the school athletic program and a lack of supervision of students that allowed the gang rape to happen. Jeff Sullivan is responsible for granting a student who was being expelled from another high school the privilege to play football at Damascus. Doesn't make sense. The use of COSAs and athletic waivers should be reviewed.

Parents should keep attending and giving comments at the Board of Education meetings till Dr. Smith fires the people who's negligence allowed the gang rape to occur.