That Brock Allen Turner is a dirtbag

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe this thread has gone on so long. The simple thing one can take away from this, is DON'T RAPE.

That's it. It's simple. It's completely simple. Just don't.

The details about the victim do not matter. Her choices are hers alone. None of them matter, with regards to rape - JUST DON'T RAPE. DON'T ASSAULT. It's so fucking easy to avoid.

Teach your son's DON'T RAPE. Clearly Brock's parents, especially his dad, failed to teach his kid this very simple thing. It isn't hard or complicated at all.

If there's any doubt, then DON'T. How any of this is complicated is mind boggling.

It's not complicated...unless you meet up with someone who's a rapist. What to do? How to possibly protect yourself? Consequently, the other posts have been included in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes. Even if she was totally on board and left that party with him willingly, even if she had gone behind the dumpsters and had willingly begun to fool around with him, the minute she became unresponsive and unaware of her surroundings he needed to stop immediately. We don't know what happened or how they ended up behind the dumpsters.

The Swedes apparently saw what they thought was a rape. I haven't read their statements so I don't know exactly what they have described seeing. But it sounds as though they saw this guy dry humping this half naked, passed out girl - and that is what led them to chase him and tackle him.

No one knows how much these two were doing together before she passed out. It could be that she was actively fooling around with him and that her underwear was removed by her - we don't know. Maybe she passed out on the sidewalk and he dragged her unconscious body behind the dumpster and proceeded to remove her clothes and assault her. We don't know.

One thing that we do know is that no woman on God's green earth would ever want to be in a situation like this. This woman has been violated so many times - by this guy shoving his fingers into her or at least dry humping her passed out body, by the cops photographing her half naked passed out body, by the complete rape kit exam (swabbing, dye, more stuff shoved into her) and the additional crime photographs of her naked body. Now the trial and seeing all of that graphic evidence splayed out for all to see.

As a woman, this whole process absolutely sickens me. But I also see how - because of her drunken, unresponsive state the authorities had no more idea what happened to this woman than she did.

If f the Swedes hadn't come by, whatever he had done before or after she passed out, she never would have known. Nobody would have known, not her, not us.

That doesn't make his actions any less criminal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

I think it's been posted 70x because some loon kept posting some crap about helping rapists rape.

You mean the person who was pointing out those posters who insist on identifying all the reasons why Emily Doe brought this on herself and what she should've done differently, as opposed to looking at why the guy felt so entitled and how we change that mentality to stop these crimes?

examples, please. stop making this crap up.

Sorry, not making it up. Wish I could. If you can't read, I'm not going to help you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes. Even if she was totally on board and left that party with him willingly, even if she had gone behind the dumpsters and had willingly begun to fool around with him, the minute she became unresponsive and unaware of her surroundings he needed to stop immediately. We don't know what happened or how they ended up behind the dumpsters.

The Swedes apparently saw what they thought was a rape. I haven't read their statements so I don't know exactly what they have described seeing. But it sounds as though they saw this guy dry humping this half naked, passed out girl - and that is what led them to chase him and tackle him.

No one knows how much these two were doing together before she passed out. It could be that she was actively fooling around with him and that her underwear was removed by her - we don't know. Maybe she passed out on the sidewalk and he dragged her unconscious body behind the dumpster and proceeded to remove her clothes and assault her. We don't know.

One thing that we do know is that no woman on God's green earth would ever want to be in a situation like this. This woman has been violated so many times - by this guy shoving his fingers into her or at least dry humping her passed out body, by the cops photographing her half naked passed out body, by the complete rape kit exam (swabbing, dye, more stuff shoved into her) and the additional crime photographs of her naked body. Now the trial and seeing all of that graphic evidence splayed out for all to see.

As a woman, this whole process absolutely sickens me. But I also see how - because of her drunken, unresponsive state the authorities had no more idea what happened to this woman than she did.

If f the Swedes hadn't come by, whatever he had done before or after she passed out, she never would have known. Nobody would have known, not her, not us.

That doesn't make his actions any less criminal.

No one has said or indicated that his actions weren't criminal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes. Even if she was totally on board and left that party with him willingly, even if she had gone behind the dumpsters and had willingly begun to fool around with him, the minute she became unresponsive and unaware of her surroundings he needed to stop immediately. We don't know what happened or how they ended up behind the dumpsters.

The Swedes apparently saw what they thought was a rape. I haven't read their statements so I don't know exactly what they have described seeing. But it sounds as though they saw this guy dry humping this half naked, passed out girl - and that is what led them to chase him and tackle him.

No one knows how much these two were doing together before she passed out. It could be that she was actively fooling around with him and that her underwear was removed by her - we don't know. Maybe she passed out on the sidewalk and he dragged her unconscious body behind the dumpster and proceeded to remove her clothes and assault her. We don't know.

One thing that we do know is that no woman on God's green earth would ever want to be in a situation like this. This woman has been violated so many times - by this guy shoving his fingers into her or at least dry humping her passed out body, by the cops photographing her half naked passed out body, by the complete rape kit exam (swabbing, dye, more stuff shoved into her) and the additional crime photographs of her naked body. Now the trial and seeing all of that graphic evidence splayed out for all to see.

As a woman, this whole process absolutely sickens me. But I also see how - because of her drunken, unresponsive state the authorities had no more idea what happened to this woman than she did.

If f the Swedes hadn't come by, whatever he had done before or after she passed out, she never would have known. Nobody would have known, not her, not us.

Yep. There are lots of levels of scary to this whole thing. Ladies do not allow yourself to ever, EVER get this drunk.

Assaults can happen to anyone but at least be in a state to be a good advocate and witness for yourself. Look out for YOU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

I think it's been posted 70x because some loon kept posting some crap about helping rapists rape.

You mean the person who was pointing out those posters who insist on identifying all the reasons why Emily Doe brought this on herself and what she should've done differently, as opposed to looking at why the guy felt so entitled and how we change that mentality to stop these crimes?

That's a good point. Look back at this thread, and compare the number of posts talking about what the victim did wrong and how the victim (and other women) can "avoid rape" in the future to the number of posts trying to figure out what got the rapist to this place and how he can avoid THAT in the future?

Well I'm not a rapist and I don't know what motivates them so I'm a little lost there. Suggestions?

I do feel personally responsible for myself and my daughters though so for my little family I'll focus on personal safety and looking out for others. That's just an easier/more relevant conversation for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

How is that irrelevant? If the hook up culture has guys having sex with a bunch of wasted girls that black out and can't remember a thing and tell him what a great time they had and they come back for more... how is that not relevant to the problem on college campuses. How is a guy to know when a girl is going to say, they didn't consent, when the same situation happened 20 times before and it was consent?

Perhaps we need to teach our sons to do a better job of recognizing and understanding what could happen. If a girl is THAT drunk, or if she says yes but then no and then yes again, or if she is on the verge of passing out, or she can't walk, or is slurring her speech so badly that you can't understand her - WALK AWAY. Exercise restraint, recognize that this is not how you want to be getting laid, understand the consequences. Just as we would tell our daughters not to get so drunk that they black out, or not to walk home alone, and exercise personal safety, we should also be teaching our sons not to take advantage of drunk girls or get so drunk that they don't recognize that the girl they are about to have sex with is also too drunk to know what's going on. You don't solve the "hookup culture" on college campuses by simply telling girls not to do certain things while excusing the behavior of the guys.

what if they guy is in the same condition as the girl?

I think we tell girls and boys... no drinking before you are 21, after 21 no drinking to the point you are drunk, no sleeping with people you are not dating.

Why do I get push back from that notion?

y

Because the fact that he was drunk too has to be ignored for these women to be right. All their protests fall apart. If she was too drunk to know better, consent, etc, it stands to reason he could have been as well - in fact, his BAC level confirmed it. Only women are affected by alcohol, apparently.

Women want their alcohol, their hook ups AND the legal right to state rape, even when it's simply regret or they don't remember

She was passed out. Unconscious. Not awake.

If he was impaired, he still knew that what he was doing. He ran away when he got caught.

It's not the same thing at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

I think it's been posted 70x because some loon kept posting some crap about helping rapists rape.

You mean the person who was pointing out those posters who insist on identifying all the reasons why Emily Doe brought this on herself and what she should've done differently, as opposed to looking at why the guy felt so entitled and how we change that mentality to stop these crimes?

examples, please. stop making this crap up.

Go back and read the thread. You can start with the post above you, at 15:09

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

How is that irrelevant? If the hook up culture has guys having sex with a bunch of wasted girls that black out and can't remember a thing and tell him what a great time they had and they come back for more... how is that not relevant to the problem on college campuses. How is a guy to know when a girl is going to say, they didn't consent, when the same situation happened 20 times before and it was consent?

Perhaps we need to teach our sons to do a better job of recognizing and understanding what could happen. If a girl is THAT drunk, or if she says yes but then no and then yes again, or if she is on the verge of passing out, or she can't walk, or is slurring her speech so badly that you can't understand her - WALK AWAY. Exercise restraint, recognize that this is not how you want to be getting laid, understand the consequences. Just as we would tell our daughters not to get so drunk that they black out, or not to walk home alone, and exercise personal safety, we should also be teaching our sons not to take advantage of drunk girls or get so drunk that they don't recognize that the girl they are about to have sex with is also too drunk to know what's going on. You don't solve the "hookup culture" on college campuses by simply telling girls not to do certain things while excusing the behavior of the guys.

what if they guy is in the same condition as the girl?

I think we tell girls and boys... no drinking before you are 21, after 21 no drinking to the point you are drunk, no sleeping with people you are not dating.

Why do I get push back from that notion?

y

Because the fact that he was drunk too has to be ignored for these women to be right. All their protests fall apart. If she was too drunk to know better, consent, etc, it stands to reason he could have been as well - in fact, his BAC level confirmed it. Only women are affected by alcohol, apparently.

Women want their alcohol, their hook ups AND the legal right to state rape, even when it's simply regret or they don't remember

She was passed out. Unconscious. Not awake.

If he was impaired, he still knew that what he was doing. He ran away when he got caught.

It's not the same thing at all.

You know he ran. So would many drunk people if they were threatened. You are assuming he knew she had passed out, and that he was deliberately attacking her because of that. Prove it using fact. You can't. You are assuming

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe this thread has gone on so long. The simple thing one can take away from this, is DON'T RAPE.

That's it. It's simple. It's completely simple. Just don't.

The details about the victim do not matter. Her choices are hers alone. None of them matter, with regards to rape - JUST DON'T RAPE. DON'T ASSAULT. It's so fucking easy to avoid.

Teach your son's DON'T RAPE. Clearly Brock's parents, especially his dad, failed to teach his kid this very simple thing. It isn't hard or complicated at all.

If there's any doubt, then DON'T. How any of this is complicated is mind boggling.

It's not complicated...unless you meet up with someone who's a rapist. What to do? How to possibly protect yourself? Consequently, the other posts have been included in this thread.

There is "protection" that will prevent a rape, without fail.

You know what will prevent a rape, without fail? Not raping people. That should be the chief education issue. That is the starting point, and the ending point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes. Even if she was totally on board and left that party with him willingly, even if she had gone behind the dumpsters and had willingly begun to fool around with him, the minute she became unresponsive and unaware of her surroundings he needed to stop immediately. We don't know what happened or how they ended up behind the dumpsters.

The Swedes apparently saw what they thought was a rape. I haven't read their statements so I don't know exactly what they have described seeing. But it sounds as though they saw this guy dry humping this half naked, passed out girl - and that is what led them to chase him and tackle him.

No one knows how much these two were doing together before she passed out. It could be that she was actively fooling around with him and that her underwear was removed by her - we don't know. Maybe she passed out on the sidewalk and he dragged her unconscious body behind the dumpster and proceeded to remove her clothes and assault her. We don't know.

One thing that we do know is that no woman on God's green earth would ever want to be in a situation like this. This woman has been violated so many times - by this guy shoving his fingers into her or at least dry humping her passed out body, by the cops photographing her half naked passed out body, by the complete rape kit exam (swabbing, dye, more stuff shoved into her) and the additional crime photographs of her naked body. Now the trial and seeing all of that graphic evidence splayed out for all to see.

As a woman, this whole process absolutely sickens me. But I also see how - because of her drunken, unresponsive state the authorities had no more idea what happened to this woman than she did.

If f the Swedes hadn't come by, whatever he had done before or after she passed out, she never would have known. Nobody would have known, not her, not us.

Yep. There are lots of levels of scary to this whole thing. Ladies do not allow yourself to ever, EVER get this drunk.

Assaults can happen to anyone but at least be in a state to be a good advocate and witness for yourself. Look out for YOU.

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/lifestyle/advice/a3528/how-serial-rapists-target-victims/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe this thread has gone on so long. The simple thing one can take away from this, is DON'T RAPE.

That's it. It's simple. It's completely simple. Just don't.

The details about the victim do not matter. Her choices are hers alone. None of them matter, with regards to rape - JUST DON'T RAPE. DON'T ASSAULT. It's so fucking easy to avoid.

Teach your son's DON'T RAPE. Clearly Brock's parents, especially his dad, failed to teach his kid this very simple thing. It isn't hard or complicated at all.

If there's any doubt, then DON'T. How any of this is complicated is mind boggling.

It's not complicated...unless you meet up with someone who's a rapist. What to do? How to possibly protect yourself? Consequently, the other posts have been included in this thread.

There is "protection" that will prevent a rape, without fail.

You know what will prevent a rape, without fail? Not raping people. That should be the chief education issue. That is the starting point, and the ending point.

There are two reasons this was rape, he was too drunk and dumb to notice she'd passed out. And she passed out at the wrong time, earli

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

How is that irrelevant? If the hook up culture has guys having sex with a bunch of wasted girls that black out and can't remember a thing and tell him what a great time they had and they come back for more... how is that not relevant to the problem on college campuses. How is a guy to know when a girl is going to say, they didn't consent, when the same situation happened 20 times before and it was consent?

Perhaps we need to teach our sons to do a better job of recognizing and understanding what could happen. If a girl is THAT drunk, or if she says yes but then no and then yes again, or if she is on the verge of passing out, or she can't walk, or is slurring her speech so badly that you can't understand her - WALK AWAY. Exercise restraint, recognize that this is not how you want to be getting laid, understand the consequences. Just as we would tell our daughters not to get so drunk that they black out, or not to walk home alone, and exercise personal safety, we should also be teaching our sons not to take advantage of drunk girls or get so drunk that they don't recognize that the girl they are about to have sex with is also too drunk to know what's going on. You don't solve the "hookup culture" on college campuses by simply telling girls not to do certain things while excusing the behavior of the guys.

what if they guy is in the same condition as the girl?

I think we tell girls and boys... no drinking before you are 21, after 21 no drinking to the point you are drunk, no sleeping with people you are not dating.

Why do I get push back from that notion?

y

Because the fact that he was drunk too has to be ignored for these women to be right. All their protests fall apart. If she was too drunk to know better, consent, etc, it stands to reason he could have been as well - in fact, his BAC level confirmed it. Only women are affected by alcohol, apparently.

Women want their alcohol, their hook ups AND the legal right to state rape, even when it's simply regret or they don't remember

She was passed out. Unconscious. Not awake.

If he was impaired, he still knew that what he was doing. He ran away when he got caught.

It's not the same thing at all.

You know he ran. So would many drunk people if they were threatened. You are assuming he knew she had passed out, and that he was deliberately attacking her because of that. Prove it using fact. You can't. You are assuming

It was already proven beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury. What proves it to me is that PASSERSBY could tell she was passed out. How could someone on top of her not know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe this thread has gone on so long. The simple thing one can take away from this, is DON'T RAPE.

That's it. It's simple. It's completely simple. Just don't.

The details about the victim do not matter. Her choices are hers alone. None of them matter, with regards to rape - JUST DON'T RAPE. DON'T ASSAULT. It's so fucking easy to avoid.

Teach your son's DON'T RAPE. Clearly Brock's parents, especially his dad, failed to teach his kid this very simple thing. It isn't hard or complicated at all.

If there's any doubt, then DON'T. How any of this is complicated is mind boggling.

It's not complicated...unless you meet up with someone who's a rapist. What to do? How to possibly protect yourself? Consequently, the other posts have been included in this thread.

There is "protection" that will prevent a rape, without fail.

You know what will prevent a rape, without fail? Not raping people. That should be the chief education issue. That is the starting point, and the ending point.

Excellent point. Now how to get all those guys like Jesse Matthew to not rape? The ending point is elusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People want to find a way that the victim could have prevented the situation in order to reassure themselves it could never happen to them. Wishful thinking but it doesn't guarantee anyone's safety.

That's not entirely fair. I posted earlier saying there but for the grace of God. I have no assurance that this could not have happened to me; I behaved just like Emily Doe in my college years and even a few times in graduate school. At the time I was just embarrassed to have made a fool of myself; I was too clueless to realize how incredibly risky that behavior was. And so I damn sure want to teach my kids as best not to ever do anything like that - that binge drinking is not some harmless adolescent rite of passage.

Drilling basic self-protection measures into our kids isn't a fantasy. It will not keep them from all harm or prevent any possibility of rape or some other horrible crime. But it may decrease their odds of facing such a terrible situation as Emily Doe, or something even worse.

I think what has so many PP's dander up is the rather noxious focus on what Emily Doe could have differently. Seriously. Over and over and over: binge drinking is bad! Drinking is bad! And my favorite, completely irrelevant one: hookup culture is bad! So much focus on what the victim did or did not do, and so very little on the fact that this man, and many like him, feel entitled to a woman's body whether or not she wants to give it or can consent. There's very little focus on that. For some reason.

I think it's been posted 70x because some loon kept posting some crap about helping rapists rape.

You mean the person who was pointing out those posters who insist on identifying all the reasons why Emily Doe brought this on herself and what she should've done differently, as opposed to looking at why the guy felt so entitled and how we change that mentality to stop these crimes?

That's a good point. Look back at this thread, and compare the number of posts talking about what the victim did wrong and how the victim (and other women) can "avoid rape" in the future to the number of posts trying to figure out what got the rapist to this place and how he can avoid THAT in the future?

Well I'm not a rapist and I don't know what motivates them so I'm a little lost there. Suggestions?

I do feel personally responsible for myself and my daughters though so for my little family I'll focus on personal safety and looking out for others. That's just an easier/more relevant conversation for me.

Suggestions? Sure. How about, you have no right to touch another person without their consent. Yes means yes. Know right versus wrong, etc., etc., etc. It doesn't start or stop with personal safety. We need to teach people to respect other people. If some dude is horny, he needs to keep it in his pants unless the other consenting party has said YES...and even simpler, is conscious.

Brock's Dad must have had your mentality, which is why he failed to teach his son that rape isn't right.