DDOT's latest plan to destroy traffic, Georgia Avenue edition

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.

the plan is to improve bus transit …

Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...

It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.

Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.

Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.

Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.

Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.

You sound slow, so we'll break it down:

1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive
2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.

These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.

Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.

That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.

But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.

"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.

Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.

What does this mean? All of the businesses on Georgia Avenue between Barry Place and Eastern Avenue are drive-thru only? That's definitely not true.

If it's not drive-thru, then everyone arriving at the business is arriving as foot traffic. Maybe you can explain how the business owners know whether their customers, who are walking in the door, got there by car or bus or Metro or bike or feet or whatever?

Go drive down Georgia Avenue. There's not a lot of people on the sidewalks, and there's a lot of businesses that look like they havent seen a customer in years.

Your information source is "this is what I see while I'm driving"? That's not data.

The bus is so popular that WMATA proposed draconian cuts in service.

Remind me: Do you propose cuts in service when your product is popular or unpopular?

You propose cuts in service when you do not have a dedicated funding source and the local jurisdictions are unwilling to contribute the necessary funding.

You're right, though. Higher bus frequency is better for riders, and ridership, than lower bus frequency. Consistency and reliability are important for riders too. The good news is that dedicated bus lanes really help with consistency and reliability.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.

the plan is to improve bus transit …

Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...

It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.

Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.

Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.

Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.

Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.

You sound slow, so we'll break it down:

1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive
2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.

These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.

Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.

That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.

But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.

"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.

Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.

Those "very few" buses still manage to move some 20,000 people a day you realize, right? That's half the users on GA. With a bus lane, they still would only get 1/3 of the road surface.

This is a completely different situation than the bike lanes on CT, which you also oppose, which had a hypothetical daily use in the hundreds. GA has 20,000 people right now stuck in those never ending lines of cars. A bus lane would cut tens of thousands of commutes down, and potentially entice people out of their cars into the faster buses.

Thinking more broadly, emergency vehicles would be able to get to emergencies much faster using these bus lanes. It would also lead to less traffic and parking demand downtown. Seems like an absolute slam dunk.

Pfft. I'd be surprised if 10 percent of people on Georgia are on the bus.

Who needs data when you can just make stuff up based on what you see through your windshield while driving?

Look at the WMATA web site. There's a bus tracker! You can see how many buses are currently on Georgia Avenue! Spoiler alert: There's very few.

It's 9:49 am, I just looked at the 70 bus, and there are 12 of them on the route.

Here are some fun facts about buses:

1. They can carry a lot of people
2. People can get on and off along the way

12 buses on a route that's almost 10 miles long does not seem like very many buses.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.

the plan is to improve bus transit …

Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...

It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.

Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.

Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.

Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.

Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.

You sound slow, so we'll break it down:

1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive
2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.

These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.

Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.

That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.

But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.

"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.

Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.

What does this mean? All of the businesses on Georgia Avenue between Barry Place and Eastern Avenue are drive-thru only? That's definitely not true.

If it's not drive-thru, then everyone arriving at the business is arriving as foot traffic. Maybe you can explain how the business owners know whether their customers, who are walking in the door, got there by car or bus or Metro or bike or feet or whatever?

Go drive down Georgia Avenue. There's not a lot of people on the sidewalks, and there's a lot of businesses that look like they havent seen a customer in years.

Your information source is "this is what I see while I'm driving"? That's not data.

The bus is so popular that WMATA proposed draconian cuts in service.

Remind me: Do you propose cuts in service when your product is popular or unpopular?

You propose cuts in service when you do not have a dedicated funding source and the local jurisdictions are unwilling to contribute the necessary funding.

You're right, though. Higher bus frequency is better for riders, and ridership, than lower bus frequency. Consistency and reliability are important for riders too. The good news is that dedicated bus lanes really help with consistency and reliability.

Ok, so where's the evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership? We've had a bunch of them for awhile now. Show us the data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.

the plan is to improve bus transit …

Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...

It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.

Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.

Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.

Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.

Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.

You sound slow, so we'll break it down:

1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive
2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.

These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.

Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.

That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.

But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.

"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.

Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.

What does this mean? All of the businesses on Georgia Avenue between Barry Place and Eastern Avenue are drive-thru only? That's definitely not true.

If it's not drive-thru, then everyone arriving at the business is arriving as foot traffic. Maybe you can explain how the business owners know whether their customers, who are walking in the door, got there by car or bus or Metro or bike or feet or whatever?

Go drive down Georgia Avenue. There's not a lot of people on the sidewalks, and there's a lot of businesses that look like they havent seen a customer in years.

Your information source is "this is what I see while I'm driving"? That's not data.

The bus is so popular that WMATA proposed draconian cuts in service.

Remind me: Do you propose cuts in service when your product is popular or unpopular?

You propose cuts in service when you do not have a dedicated funding source and the local jurisdictions are unwilling to contribute the necessary funding.

You're right, though. Higher bus frequency is better for riders, and ridership, than lower bus frequency. Consistency and reliability are important for riders too. The good news is that dedicated bus lanes really help with consistency and reliability.

Ok, so where's the evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership? We've had a bunch of them for awhile now. Show us the data.

You're arguing all over the place, based on the premise that Bus Lanes Are Bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.

the plan is to improve bus transit …

Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...

It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.

Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.

Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.

Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.

Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.

You sound slow, so we'll break it down:

1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive
2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.

These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.

Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.

That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.

But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.

"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.

Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.

Those "very few" buses still manage to move some 20,000 people a day you realize, right? That's half the users on GA. With a bus lane, they still would only get 1/3 of the road surface.

This is a completely different situation than the bike lanes on CT, which you also oppose, which had a hypothetical daily use in the hundreds. GA has 20,000 people right now stuck in those never ending lines of cars. A bus lane would cut tens of thousands of commutes down, and potentially entice people out of their cars into the faster buses.

Thinking more broadly, emergency vehicles would be able to get to emergencies much faster using these bus lanes. It would also lead to less traffic and parking demand downtown. Seems like an absolute slam dunk.

Pfft. I'd be surprised if 10 percent of people on Georgia are on the bus.

Who needs data when you can just make stuff up based on what you see through your windshield while driving?

Look at the WMATA web site. There's a bus tracker! You can see how many buses are currently on Georgia Avenue! Spoiler alert: There's very few.

It's 9:49 am, I just looked at the 70 bus, and there are 12 of them on the route.

Here are some fun facts about buses:

1. They can carry a lot of people
2. People can get on and off along the way

12 buses on a route that's almost 10 miles long does not seem like very many buses.

That's the best you can do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.

the plan is to improve bus transit …

Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...

It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.

Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.

Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.

Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.

Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.

You sound slow, so we'll break it down:

1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive
2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.

These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.

Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.

That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.

But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.

"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.

Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.

Those "very few" buses still manage to move some 20,000 people a day you realize, right? That's half the users on GA. With a bus lane, they still would only get 1/3 of the road surface.

This is a completely different situation than the bike lanes on CT, which you also oppose, which had a hypothetical daily use in the hundreds. GA has 20,000 people right now stuck in those never ending lines of cars. A bus lane would cut tens of thousands of commutes down, and potentially entice people out of their cars into the faster buses.

Thinking more broadly, emergency vehicles would be able to get to emergencies much faster using these bus lanes. It would also lead to less traffic and parking demand downtown. Seems like an absolute slam dunk.

Pfft. I'd be surprised if 10 percent of people on Georgia are on the bus.

Who needs data when you can just make stuff up based on what you see through your windshield while driving?

Look at the WMATA web site. There's a bus tracker! You can see how many buses are currently on Georgia Avenue! Spoiler alert: There's very few.

It's 9:49 am, I just looked at the 70 bus, and there are 12 of them on the route.

Here are some fun facts about buses:

1. They can carry a lot of people
2. People can get on and off along the way

12 buses on a route that's almost 10 miles long does not seem like very many buses.

How many people do you think are on each bus? 2?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.

the plan is to improve bus transit …

Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...

It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.

Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.

Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.

Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.

Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.

You sound slow, so we'll break it down:

1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive
2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.

These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.

Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.

That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.

But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.

"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.

Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.

What does this mean? All of the businesses on Georgia Avenue between Barry Place and Eastern Avenue are drive-thru only? That's definitely not true.

If it's not drive-thru, then everyone arriving at the business is arriving as foot traffic. Maybe you can explain how the business owners know whether their customers, who are walking in the door, got there by car or bus or Metro or bike or feet or whatever?

Go drive down Georgia Avenue. There's not a lot of people on the sidewalks, and there's a lot of businesses that look like they havent seen a customer in years.

Your information source is "this is what I see while I'm driving"? That's not data.

The bus is so popular that WMATA proposed draconian cuts in service.

Remind me: Do you propose cuts in service when your product is popular or unpopular?

Every time the government shuts down they make sure to close the National Parks first and very visibly. So that should answer your question on what governments threaten to cut when they want money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.

the plan is to improve bus transit …

Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...

It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.

Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.

Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.

Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.

Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.

You sound slow, so we'll break it down:

1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive
2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.

These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.

Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.

That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.

But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.

"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.

Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.

What does this mean? All of the businesses on Georgia Avenue between Barry Place and Eastern Avenue are drive-thru only? That's definitely not true.

If it's not drive-thru, then everyone arriving at the business is arriving as foot traffic. Maybe you can explain how the business owners know whether their customers, who are walking in the door, got there by car or bus or Metro or bike or feet or whatever?

Go drive down Georgia Avenue. There's not a lot of people on the sidewalks, and there's a lot of businesses that look like they havent seen a customer in years.

Your information source is "this is what I see while I'm driving"? That's not data.

The bus is so popular that WMATA proposed draconian cuts in service.

Remind me: Do you propose cuts in service when your product is popular or unpopular?

You propose cuts in service when you do not have a dedicated funding source and the local jurisdictions are unwilling to contribute the necessary funding.

You're right, though. Higher bus frequency is better for riders, and ridership, than lower bus frequency. Consistency and reliability are important for riders too. The good news is that dedicated bus lanes really help with consistency and reliability.

Real stalker energy you got here. Maybe he or she is just not into you, and it doesn't matter if you get a new shirt or a better haircut. The city keeps building new infrastructure for modes of transportation that the public doesnt want to use.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.

the plan is to improve bus transit …

Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...

It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.

Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.

Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.

Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.

Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.

You sound slow, so we'll break it down:

1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive
2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.

These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.

Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.

That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.

But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.

"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.

Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.

What does this mean? All of the businesses on Georgia Avenue between Barry Place and Eastern Avenue are drive-thru only? That's definitely not true.

If it's not drive-thru, then everyone arriving at the business is arriving as foot traffic. Maybe you can explain how the business owners know whether their customers, who are walking in the door, got there by car or bus or Metro or bike or feet or whatever?

Go drive down Georgia Avenue. There's not a lot of people on the sidewalks, and there's a lot of businesses that look like they havent seen a customer in years.

Your information source is "this is what I see while I'm driving"? That's not data.

The bus is so popular that WMATA proposed draconian cuts in service.

Remind me: Do you propose cuts in service when your product is popular or unpopular?

Every time the government shuts down they make sure to close the National Parks first and very visibly. So that should answer your question on what governments threaten to cut when they want money.

Ok, Grover Norquist. Yeah, I remember when the FAA was unhappy with its budget so all the airports shut down.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.

the plan is to improve bus transit …

Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...

It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.

Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.

Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.

Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.

Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.

You sound slow, so we'll break it down:

1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive
2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.

These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.

Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.

That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.

But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.

"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.

Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.

What does this mean? All of the businesses on Georgia Avenue between Barry Place and Eastern Avenue are drive-thru only? That's definitely not true.

If it's not drive-thru, then everyone arriving at the business is arriving as foot traffic. Maybe you can explain how the business owners know whether their customers, who are walking in the door, got there by car or bus or Metro or bike or feet or whatever?

Go drive down Georgia Avenue. There's not a lot of people on the sidewalks, and there's a lot of businesses that look like they havent seen a customer in years.

Your information source is "this is what I see while I'm driving"? That's not data.

The bus is so popular that WMATA proposed draconian cuts in service.

Remind me: Do you propose cuts in service when your product is popular or unpopular?

You propose cuts in service when you do not have a dedicated funding source and the local jurisdictions are unwilling to contribute the necessary funding.

You're right, though. Higher bus frequency is better for riders, and ridership, than lower bus frequency. Consistency and reliability are important for riders too. The good news is that dedicated bus lanes really help with consistency and reliability.

Real stalker energy you got here. Maybe he or she is just not into you, and it doesn't matter if you get a new shirt or a better haircut. The city keeps building new infrastructure for modes of transportation that the public doesnt want to use.

Eh. No, that's just you. Plenty of people who are not you do use the bus, and even more people would use the bus if there were better bus service. If you want to keep sitting in traffic and complaining, that's your choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.

the plan is to improve bus transit …

Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...

It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.

Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.

And there’s not a shred of evidence that they haven’t.

It’s not the hyper-specific evidence you claim to seek, but there’s ample evidence from other jurisdictions that bus lanes reduce transit times and increase ridership. Some of this is listed in this article: https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/news/nacto-improving-bus-service-transit-ridership-emissions/630158/

I imagine if DCUM had existed in the 1960s, you’d be on here railing against plans to build the Metro on the grounds that no evidence exists to support the contention that people would use it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the title of this entire post- isn't "destroying traffic" the goal? Do we want traffic?

For some reason people think replacing POV traffic, which has the highest fatality rate, with bus traffic, which has one of the lowest fatality rates, will somehow lead to an increase in fatalities because drivers will seek out kids on side-streets to run over in their rage and this is a good reason to maintain the status quo.

Except you're not actually replacing it and nobody "seeks out kids on side streets to run over in their rage".

I would have thought by now that you would have realized that your constant lies and attempts at demonization have backfired. But I guess not.

Eh. You're the one who's demonizing drivers, by asserting that they will drive dangerously through side streets and kill children.

You can tell the people in favor of this plan do not really care about safety, and that this plan is really just about spiting drivers, because this plan will *obviously* put a lot of children in danger by redirecting traffic from Georgia Avenue to the quiet streets of Ward 4, and advocates of this absurd plan are suddenly trivializing people's concerns about safety.

Let's face it. They wouldn't mind if some kids get killed. They'll just use that to further their arguments to clamp down on driving.

That’s a despicable thing to write.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Department of Transportation says an average of one person is killed on Georgia Avenue each year, which seems very low for a major road in a major city. I wonder if this plan would create more problems than it solves.

the plan is to improve bus transit …

Sounds like it is a little unclear what this proposal is supposed to accomplish...

It's quite clear, actually. The purpose of bus lanes is to improve bus service and the efficiency of the street in transporting people. An additional benefit is that it also makes the street safer.

Huh? This plan would radically reduce the number of people who can use Georgia Avenue to get around. It would create gridlock on Georgia Avenue and, as has been pointed out many, many times, there is not a shred of evidence that bus only lanes in DC have increased bus ridership. Even the people who do ride the bus would likely not even go much faster because on Georgia Avenue there is either a traffic light or a bus stop every 12 feet.

Have you ever been on a bus? Buses are far more space-efficient for transporting people than cars, especially cars that only have one person in them. It seems like you don't know very much about how bus lanes work.

Are you eight years old? Seriously, this sounds like an argument that a small child would make.

Yes, even small children understand that many more people can travel in the same amount of road space in buses, versus cars. This is not complicated.

You sound slow, so we'll break it down:

1. The vast majority of people using Georgia Avenue drive
2. If you reduce Georgia Avenue to one lane in each direction, it will create some nasty gridlock that will radically reduce the number of drivers who can use it
3. There is no evidence that bus only lanes increase ridership. If drivers face gridlock, they'll just turn on Waze and go around it using side streets.
4. If you choke off the main way people use Georgia Avenue and bus ridership remains unchanged, then the number of Washingtonians who use Georgia Avenue will plummet.

These proposals seem well meaning but the net, real world effect of them is to make it harder for people to move about the city.

Your point number 1 is flat-out wrong. So there's no need to go on. You're just wrong on the facts.

That's ok, we know you don't have any substantive response.

But you should go check out Georgia Avenue sometime. It sounds like you're unfamiliar.

"Your assertion is factually incorrect" is a substantive response. It sounds like you're mixing up cars and people.

Look at the bus web site. Even during rush hour, there's very few buses on Georgia Avenue. As business owners will tell you, there's not a lot of foot traffic either. it's mostly just cars.

Those "very few" buses still manage to move some 20,000 people a day you realize, right? That's half the users on GA. With a bus lane, they still would only get 1/3 of the road surface.

This is a completely different situation than the bike lanes on CT, which you also oppose, which had a hypothetical daily use in the hundreds. GA has 20,000 people right now stuck in those never ending lines of cars. A bus lane would cut tens of thousands of commutes down, and potentially entice people out of their cars into the faster buses.

Thinking more broadly, emergency vehicles would be able to get to emergencies much faster using these bus lanes. It would also lead to less traffic and parking demand downtown. Seems like an absolute slam dunk.

Pfft. I'd be surprised if 10 percent of people on Georgia are on the bus.

Who needs data when you can just make stuff up based on what you see through your windshield while driving?

Look at the WMATA web site. There's a bus tracker! You can see how many buses are currently on Georgia Avenue! Spoiler alert: There's very few.

It's 9:49 am, I just looked at the 70 bus, and there are 12 of them on the route.

Here are some fun facts about buses:

1. They can carry a lot of people
2. People can get on and off along the way

12 buses on a route that's almost 10 miles long does not seem like very many buses.

When you consider that those 12 buses are ON AVERAGE carrying ~270 people a day (~440k trips and about 1,600 buses in service) where the average personal vehicle has 1.25, that's the equivalent of about 2,600 fewer vehicles a day on GA ave. That's a good amount fewer vehicles.

Oh, and the bus riders are 81% minority. And 55% zero car households. So it's also an accessibility thing for lower income folks.

[Anonymous]

DC needs to stop pretending it’s some enormous city and accept the fact that it’s a large car-centric town in a car-centric metropolitan area which is dominated by the suburbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC needs to stop pretending it’s some enormous city and accept the fact that it’s a large car-centric town in a car-centric metropolitan area which is dominated by the suburbs.

Even assuming this "fact" were true (which it isn't), there would be no reason it had to stay that way forevermore.