Boycott/ Divest and Pull your College App from All States which violate Our Daughters' Civil Rights

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

We don't agree with their beliefs, but aren't telling them to change their beliefs. We are telling them to not impose their beliefs on us. We aren't forcing our beliefs on them by forcing them to have abortions. We are choosing it for ourselves and it is absolutely none of their business that we do.

You know the rule of law is entirely about imposing a society’s belief system on individuals, right?

7 of the 10 Commandments are not illegal in most US jurisdictions. Religion has had virtually nothing to do with our law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Not pp. I’m not interested in persuading Catholics that their dogma is wrong. I’m happy for them to follow it. My objection is imposing it as a state-sanctioned religion. The US Constitution has a separation of church and state clause.

DP. So how do you feel about capital punishment, which each state decides on?

I think it doesn’t work and sucks up too many resources (appeals, etc.). When you add in the many mistakes that have been made, I don’t support it. Lock ‘em up and throw away the key. And yes it should be a federal standard. We are a single country.

See, I disagree and am glad I have the chance to VOTE on issues such as the death penalty - and now, abortion. I happen to be pro-choice, but believe the issue should be decided by the voters and not legislated by the SC. Like you, I'm not interested in persuading anyone regarding their personal choices or "dogma." It seems a LOT of liberals are absolutely against the death penalty for murderers, but want no restrictions on abortion (which to many is the killing of an innocent life). I suspect if someone you love was murdered, you'd think differently about capital punishment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

[Anonymous]

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And what will you do or say if red states begin offering much more comprehensive free birth control options, better prenatal care, better sex education that encourages girls to report cases of rape and incest so those instances reduce, birth rates and mother and infant mortality rates reduce, adoptions are easier and less expensive? What will you say when the red states have better overall healthcare for women rather than having a single issue with abortion as a form of birth control? Abortions are not risk free. Wouldn't preventing the pregnancy in the first place be better?


I would say that sounds like a blue state.

No kidding. No red state would support those policies because the alleged "pro-life" movement is (and has always been) about punishing and controlling women for having sex, NOT about actually caring about children.

I am sorry this is just not true.

I live in the south- you should see all the adopted kids from around the world in our church. Our whole community is geared around youth activities. We have very active charities, through our churches and otherwise.

Our local pediatric hospital will accept ANY insurance for kids. Try that in coastal cities and see what happens.

I am not going to convince you on this SC decision but you do yourself a disservice to dismiss pro life people (and the places where they live) as uncaring for children.

These people are effectively stealing kids from their own cultures and then brainwashing them with religion.

Disgusting.

What an awful thing you have said about families making the maximum gift and commitment to kids who would grow up in 2nd and 3rd world orphanages, many with disabilities.

I hope nobody is discourage from adopting by someone like you.

Stealing people from other cultures and forcing your beliefs on them isn’t a “gift”.

Tell that to the boy with Down’s syndrome from China in our Church. Or the kids my cousin adopted from Peru from an orphanage. God you are a bad bad person.

Just because they are vulnerable doesn’t mean it’s ok to take them from their country of origin. Or brainwash them with your own religion.

I have extended family members adopted from other countries. As adults, they feel robbed of their identity. And have rejected the religion forced on them by their adoptive parents. They don’t consider it a “gift” at all.

DP. Your whole family sounds as rigid and uncaring as you.

Horrible people. I hope the ungrateful adoptees have it come back to them in spades. It tends to happen like that.

“Ungrateful”

Right. They should be praising their white saviors.

This is exactly the disgusting attitude that they detest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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And what will you do or say if red states begin offering much more comprehensive free birth control options, better prenatal care, better sex education that encourages girls to report cases of rape and incest so those instances reduce, birth rates and mother and infant mortality rates reduce, adoptions are easier and less expensive? What will you say when the red states have better overall healthcare for women rather than having a single issue with abortion as a form of birth control? Abortions are not risk free. Wouldn't preventing the pregnancy in the first place be better?


I would say that sounds like a blue state.

No kidding. No red state would support those policies because the alleged "pro-life" movement is (and has always been) about punishing and controlling women for having sex, NOT about actually caring about children.

I am sorry this is just not true.

I live in the south- you should see all the adopted kids from around the world in our church. Our whole community is geared around youth activities. We have very active charities, through our churches and otherwise.

Our local pediatric hospital will accept ANY insurance for kids. Try that in coastal cities and see what happens.

I am not going to convince you on this SC decision but you do yourself a disservice to dismiss pro life people (and the places where they live) as uncaring for children.

These people are effectively stealing kids from their own cultures and then brainwashing them with religion.

Disgusting.

What an awful thing you have said about families making the maximum gift and commitment to kids who would grow up in 2nd and 3rd world orphanages, many with disabilities.

I hope nobody is discourage from adopting by someone like you.

Stealing people from other cultures and forcing your beliefs on them isn’t a “gift”.

Tell that to the boy with Down’s syndrome from China in our Church. Or the kids my cousin adopted from Peru from an orphanage. God you are a bad bad person.

Just because they are vulnerable doesn’t mean it’s ok to take them from their country of origin. Or brainwash them with your own religion.

I have extended family members adopted from other countries. As adults, they feel robbed of their identity. And have rejected the religion forced on them by their adoptive parents. They don’t consider it a “gift” at all.

DP. And so you're saying they would rather have grown up in an orphanage instead of being adopted by a loving family. Are you well? Because your posts are completely unhinged.

I’m saying that international adoptions suck. Especially if the people adopting are trying to force their religion on the kids (which actual “loving families” wouldn’t do).

My family members resent the fact that they were adopted outside of their country.

If you can look behind your white savior attitude you might actually hear what adoptees are saying.

I had no idea so many loving families were lining up to adopt children in foreign countries! Please tell us which country your family members are from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.


I believe rape is wrong, but of course it would be totally unacceptable for me to force this belief on men who might feel differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


And what will you do or say if red states begin offering much more comprehensive free birth control options, better prenatal care, better sex education that encourages girls to report cases of rape and incest so those instances reduce, birth rates and mother and infant mortality rates reduce, adoptions are easier and less expensive? What will you say when the red states have better overall healthcare for women rather than having a single issue with abortion as a form of birth control? Abortions are not risk free. Wouldn't preventing the pregnancy in the first place be better?


I would say that sounds like a blue state.

No kidding. No red state would support those policies because the alleged "pro-life" movement is (and has always been) about punishing and controlling women for having sex, NOT about actually caring about children.

I am sorry this is just not true.

I live in the south- you should see all the adopted kids from around the world in our church. Our whole community is geared around youth activities. We have very active charities, through our churches and otherwise.

Our local pediatric hospital will accept ANY insurance for kids. Try that in coastal cities and see what happens.

I am not going to convince you on this SC decision but you do yourself a disservice to dismiss pro life people (and the places where they live) as uncaring for children.

These people are effectively stealing kids from their own cultures and then brainwashing them with religion.

Disgusting.

What an awful thing you have said about families making the maximum gift and commitment to kids who would grow up in 2nd and 3rd world orphanages, many with disabilities.

I hope nobody is discourage from adopting by someone like you.

Stealing people from other cultures and forcing your beliefs on them isn’t a “gift”.

Tell that to the boy with Down’s syndrome from China in our Church. Or the kids my cousin adopted from Peru from an orphanage. God you are a bad bad person.

Just because they are vulnerable doesn’t mean it’s ok to take them from their country of origin. Or brainwash them with your own religion.

I have extended family members adopted from other countries. As adults, they feel robbed of their identity. And have rejected the religion forced on them by their adoptive parents. They don’t consider it a “gift” at all.

DP. Your whole family sounds as rigid and uncaring as you.

Horrible people. I hope the ungrateful adoptees have it come back to them in spades. It tends to happen like that.

“Ungrateful”

Right. They should be praising their white saviors.

This is exactly the disgusting attitude that they detest.

Ok, psycho.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I would never ever send my daughter to one of these states for college, and that unfortunately may include Virginia soon.

Virginia’s governor has proposed limiting elective abortions to 15 weeks. Similar to most European countries.
I guess you wouldn’t let your daughter attend school in France either?

Still not similar. No matter how many times you try to push this falsehood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I would never ever send my daughter to one of these states for college, and that unfortunately may include Virginia soon.

Virginia’s governor has proposed limiting elective abortions to 15 weeks. Similar to most European countries.
I guess you wouldn’t let your daughter attend school in France either?

Still not similar. No matter how many times you try to push this falsehood.

DP. How is that not similar?? It's exactly the same thing. Reminds me of the moron who insisted she was going to move to PORTUGAL due to Roe being overturned. Stupid doesn't even begin to cover it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

We don't agree with their beliefs, but aren't telling them to change their beliefs. We are telling them to not impose their beliefs on us. We aren't forcing our beliefs on them by forcing them to have abortions. We are choosing it for ourselves and it is absolutely none of their business that we do.

You know the rule of law is entirely about imposing a society’s belief system on individuals, right?

7 of the 10 Commandments are not illegal in most US jurisdictions. Religion has had virtually nothing to do with our law.

When did I say religion? I said belief system, which is partially informed by religion like almost all other belief system. In other countries homosexuality is punishable by death because of their belief system. In different eras what is now considered pedophilia was legal because people could marry 12 year olds. The US has a specific belief system that is opposed on individuals through the rule of law and the force of law irrespective of whether individuals personally disagree with the tenants of the belief system. That was all I was saying. Saying “you shouldn’t be able to tell me what to do because I have bodily autonomy” is a statement you could make if you didn’t live in a country governed by the rule of law. Everyone has laws they don’t like but they submit to them anyway out of fear of punishment, social shame, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

We don't agree with their beliefs, but aren't telling them to change their beliefs. We are telling them to not impose their beliefs on us. We aren't forcing our beliefs on them by forcing them to have abortions. We are choosing it for ourselves and it is absolutely none of their business that we do.

^ this sums it up.

Pro-choice people aren't forcing their views onto others, because they aren't forcing others to have abortions. They are choosing when to have their children and when not to have them. A choice for THEMSELVES.
Pro-lifers ARE forcing their views onto others, because they are forcing people to have children even when it is under horrible circumstances such as rape, incest, in cases of birth defects, in cases where it puts the mother's life at risk, in cases where the timing is all wrong and would be financially devastating, and so on.
WHEN someone decides to have or not have a child is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, pro-lifers. You stick to your own kids and your own bodies, leave everyone else out of it. And if you don't believe in abortions, don't have one. But you are OUT OF LINE forcing your views onto others.

Exactly. FORCING a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy and deliver an unwanted child is a lot like RAPING the woman.

No wonder conservatives get off on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I would never ever send my daughter to one of these states for college, and that unfortunately may include Virginia soon.

Virginia’s governor has proposed limiting elective abortions to 15 weeks. Similar to most European countries.
I guess you wouldn’t let your daughter attend school in France either?

Still not similar. No matter how many times you try to push this falsehood.

DP. How is that not similar?? It's exactly the same thing. Reminds me of the moron who insisted she was going to move to PORTUGAL due to Roe being overturned. Stupid doesn't even begin to cover it.

This has been reviewed countless times on this thread and others. Go back and re-read since you are catching up.

Not similar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

And that’s your belief system. The other side believe fetuses are living and abortion is murder. Saying “don’t impose your belief system on me” is kind of weird thing to say to someone who thinks you’re snuffing out a life.

In parts of the Muslim world honor killings aren’t prosecuted. If someone performed an honor killing over here would be wrongly imposing our belief system on them by prosecuting it according to our Western values system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

The things is, the most effective means of combatting abortion is to drive down the unplanned pregnancy rate by making contraceptive access easier (especially for the most effective forms) and by teaching everyone medically accurate sex ed. And because 3/4 of abortion patients are low-income and 59% are already mothers, abortion foes could make it possible for these mothers to keep their babies by giving them a better financial safety net.

By comparison, outlawing abortion does drive down the rate a little, but it mostly just drives abortions underground.

I’m open to believing that abortion foes really do believe abortion is murder, but nothing about their positions signals any sincerity in that belief. If they really believed that, they would do anything to lower the number of abortions. Which would mean supporting the measures in my FIRST paragraph.

Agree, Colorado's experiment with free contraceptives was a huge success and massively drove down abortion rates. As for them believing it's murder, they are entitled to their belief, but it's just that, it's a religious belief. Just as Jews hold religious belief that life does not begin until birth. They are entitled to their religious beliefs. But they should not be forcing their own religious beliefs onto others.

Exactly.