Boycott/ Divest and Pull your College App from All States which violate Our Daughters' Civil Rights

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, I would never ever send my daughter to one of these states for college, and that unfortunately may include Virginia soon.

Virginia’s governor has proposed limiting elective abortions to 15 weeks. Similar to most European countries.
I guess you wouldn’t let your daughter attend school in France either?

Still not similar. No matter how many times you try to push this falsehood.

DP. How is that not similar?? It's exactly the same thing. Reminds me of the moron who insisted she was going to move to PORTUGAL due to Roe being overturned. Stupid doesn't even begin to cover it.

This has been reviewed countless times on this thread and others. Go back and re-read since you are catching up.

Not similar.

Talk about falsehoods. In France, it is currently legal to obtain an abortion UP TO 14 weeks. You're simply trying to squirm out of an argument you've already lost.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

And that’s your belief system. The other side believe fetuses are living and abortion is murder. Saying “don’t impose your belief system on me” is kind of weird thing to say to someone who thinks you’re snuffing out a life.

In parts of the Muslim world honor killings aren’t prosecuted. If someone performed an honor killing over here would be wrongly imposing our belief system on them by prosecuting it according to our Western values system?

It’s not “weird” at all.

Religious extremists are trying to force their beliefs on me. It’s like of the Muslim community plotted for years to elect SCOTUS justices to legalize honor killings.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

The things is, the most effective means of combatting abortion is to drive down the unplanned pregnancy rate by making contraceptive access easier (especially for the most effective forms) and by teaching everyone medically accurate sex ed. And because 3/4 of abortion patients are low-income and 59% are already mothers, abortion foes could make it possible for these mothers to keep their babies by giving them a better financial safety net.

By comparison, outlawing abortion does drive down the rate a little, but it mostly just drives abortions underground.

I’m open to believing that abortion foes really do believe abortion is murder, but nothing about their positions signals any sincerity in that belief. If they really believed that, they would do anything to lower the number of abortions. Which would mean supporting the measures in my FIRST paragraph.

Agree, Colorado's experiment with free contraceptives was a huge success and massively drove down abortion rates. As for them believing it's murder, they are entitled to their belief, but it's just that, it's a religious belief. Just as Jews hold religious belief that life does not begin until birth. They are entitled to their religious beliefs. But they should not be forcing their own religious beliefs onto others.

Exactly.

And so believing the death penalty is wrong, would be considered what? A religious belief? A moral belief? Because I don't see capital punishment as wrong at all. Why should someone who disagrees with that view be able to dictate how this is handled in my state? That's why we vote. Not everyone will agree on every issue - but we all should have a chance to express our views at the polls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I would never ever send my daughter to one of these states for college, and that unfortunately may include Virginia soon.

Virginia’s governor has proposed limiting elective abortions to 15 weeks. Similar to most European countries.
I guess you wouldn’t let your daughter attend school in France either?

Still not similar. No matter how many times you try to push this falsehood.

DP. How is that not similar?? It's exactly the same thing. Reminds me of the moron who insisted she was going to move to PORTUGAL due to Roe being overturned. Stupid doesn't even begin to cover it.

This has been reviewed countless times on this thread and others. Go back and re-read since you are catching up.

Not similar.

Talk about falsehoods. In France, it is currently legal to obtain an abortion UP TO 14 weeks. You're simply trying to squirm out of an argument you've already lost.

More BS. A poster from France already explained this.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

The things is, the most effective means of combatting abortion is to drive down the unplanned pregnancy rate by making contraceptive access easier (especially for the most effective forms) and by teaching everyone medically accurate sex ed. And because 3/4 of abortion patients are low-income and 59% are already mothers, abortion foes could make it possible for these mothers to keep their babies by giving them a better financial safety net.

By comparison, outlawing abortion does drive down the rate a little, but it mostly just drives abortions underground.

I’m open to believing that abortion foes really do believe abortion is murder, but nothing about their positions signals any sincerity in that belief. If they really believed that, they would do anything to lower the number of abortions. Which would mean supporting the measures in my FIRST paragraph.

Agree, Colorado's experiment with free contraceptives was a huge success and massively drove down abortion rates. As for them believing it's murder, they are entitled to their belief, but it's just that, it's a religious belief. Just as Jews hold religious belief that life does not begin until birth. They are entitled to their religious beliefs. But they should not be forcing their own religious beliefs onto others.

Exactly.

And so believing the death penalty is wrong, would be considered what? A religious belief? A moral belief? Because I don't see capital punishment as wrong at all. Why should someone who disagrees with that view be able to dictate how this is handled in my state? That's why we vote. Not everyone will agree on every issue - but we all should have a chance to express our views at the polls.

Except when we are talking about personal liberties.

Women are being oppressed by religious extremists forcing their religious views on others.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

We don't agree with their beliefs, but aren't telling them to change their beliefs. We are telling them to not impose their beliefs on us. We aren't forcing our beliefs on them by forcing them to have abortions. We are choosing it for ourselves and it is absolutely none of their business that we do.

^ this sums it up.

Pro-choice people aren't forcing their views onto others, because they aren't forcing others to have abortions. They are choosing when to have their children and when not to have them. A choice for THEMSELVES.
Pro-lifers ARE forcing their views onto others, because they are forcing people to have children even when it is under horrible circumstances such as rape, incest, in cases of birth defects, in cases where it puts the mother's life at risk, in cases where the timing is all wrong and would be financially devastating, and so on.
WHEN someone decides to have or not have a child is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, pro-lifers. You stick to your own kids and your own bodies, leave everyone else out of it. And if you don't believe in abortions, don't have one. But you are OUT OF LINE forcing your views onto others.

Exactly. FORCING a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy and deliver an unwanted child is a lot like RAPING the woman.

No wonder conservatives get off on it.

Is it? Generally speaking, being pregnant is a result of consensual actions. Its not like the babies are implanted by aliens and then harvested by doctors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

We don't agree with their beliefs, but aren't telling them to change their beliefs. We are telling them to not impose their beliefs on us. We aren't forcing our beliefs on them by forcing them to have abortions. We are choosing it for ourselves and it is absolutely none of their business that we do.

^ this sums it up.

Pro-choice people aren't forcing their views onto others, because they aren't forcing others to have abortions. They are choosing when to have their children and when not to have them. A choice for THEMSELVES.
Pro-lifers ARE forcing their views onto others, because they are forcing people to have children even when it is under horrible circumstances such as rape, incest, in cases of birth defects, in cases where it puts the mother's life at risk, in cases where the timing is all wrong and would be financially devastating, and so on.
WHEN someone decides to have or not have a child is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, pro-lifers. You stick to your own kids and your own bodies, leave everyone else out of it. And if you don't believe in abortions, don't have one. But you are OUT OF LINE forcing your views onto others.

Exactly. FORCING a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy and deliver an unwanted child is a lot like RAPING the woman.

No wonder conservatives get off on it.

Is it? Generally speaking, being pregnant is a result of consensual actions. Its not like the babies are implanted by aliens and then harvested by doctors.

Sometimes not, and even if it is, "consequences" is a value judgment that should not apply here. If a woman did everything on earth to get pregnant, and then her life circumstances change and she decides to end the pregnancy... THAT SHOULD BE ALLOWED. Because of bodily autonomy. Do you want me to force you do certain things to your body, against your will? Then keep out of mine.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

We don't agree with their beliefs, but aren't telling them to change their beliefs. We are telling them to not impose their beliefs on us. We aren't forcing our beliefs on them by forcing them to have abortions. We are choosing it for ourselves and it is absolutely none of their business that we do.

^ this sums it up.

Pro-choice people aren't forcing their views onto others, because they aren't forcing others to have abortions. They are choosing when to have their children and when not to have them. A choice for THEMSELVES.
Pro-lifers ARE forcing their views onto others, because they are forcing people to have children even when it is under horrible circumstances such as rape, incest, in cases of birth defects, in cases where it puts the mother's life at risk, in cases where the timing is all wrong and would be financially devastating, and so on.
WHEN someone decides to have or not have a child is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, pro-lifers. You stick to your own kids and your own bodies, leave everyone else out of it. And if you don't believe in abortions, don't have one. But you are OUT OF LINE forcing your views onto others.

Exactly. FORCING a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy and deliver an unwanted child is a lot like RAPING the woman.

No wonder conservatives get off on it.

Is it? Generally speaking, being pregnant is a result of consensual actions. Its not like the babies are implanted by aliens and then harvested by doctors.

Sometimes not, and even if it is, "consequences" is a value judgment that should not apply here. If a woman did everything on earth to get pregnant, and then her life circumstances change and she decides to end the pregnancy... THAT SHOULD BE ALLOWED. Because of bodily autonomy. Do you want me to force you do certain things to your body, against your will? Then keep out of mine.

I’m perplexed by the “forced birth” construction and what it is intended to achieve. During a pregnancy resulting from consensual sex between adults, is there any point in time after which an abortion should be restricted? After viability, for example? After the first trimester? Are folks pushing for a Roe standard? Or pushing for elective abortions up to the point of birth? And if Roe is the standard, why isn’t generally banning abortion after the first trimester referred to as “forced birth”? I think Roe was a reasonable and practical way to balance the competing interests of the mother and developing baby, but it certainly isn’t the only reasonable balancing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

The things is, the most effective means of combatting abortion is to drive down the unplanned pregnancy rate by making contraceptive access easier (especially for the most effective forms) and by teaching everyone medically accurate sex ed. And because 3/4 of abortion patients are low-income and 59% are already mothers, abortion foes could make it possible for these mothers to keep their babies by giving them a better financial safety net.

By comparison, outlawing abortion does drive down the rate a little, but it mostly just drives abortions underground.

I’m open to believing that abortion foes really do believe abortion is murder, but nothing about their positions signals any sincerity in that belief. If they really believed that, they would do anything to lower the number of abortions. Which would mean supporting the measures in my FIRST paragraph.

Exactly.

They don’t want to reduce abortions. They want to judge and punish women who make different decisions than they do.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

You sound like you know nothing about being pregnant and trying to have a healthy safe pregnancy. If you don't want a child you may choose to end the pregnancy.....but for most pregnant women that are trying not have a successful outcome you are not doing any of those things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

We don't agree with their beliefs, but aren't telling them to change their beliefs. We are telling them to not impose their beliefs on us. We aren't forcing our beliefs on them by forcing them to have abortions. We are choosing it for ourselves and it is absolutely none of their business that we do.

^ this sums it up.

Pro-choice people aren't forcing their views onto others, because they aren't forcing others to have abortions. They are choosing when to have their children and when not to have them. A choice for THEMSELVES.
Pro-lifers ARE forcing their views onto others, because they are forcing people to have children even when it is under horrible circumstances such as rape, incest, in cases of birth defects, in cases where it puts the mother's life at risk, in cases where the timing is all wrong and would be financially devastating, and so on.
WHEN someone decides to have or not have a child is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, pro-lifers. You stick to your own kids and your own bodies, leave everyone else out of it. And if you don't believe in abortions, don't have one. But you are OUT OF LINE forcing your views onto others.

Exactly. FORCING a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy and deliver an unwanted child is a lot like RAPING the woman.

No wonder conservatives get off on it.

Is it? Generally speaking, being pregnant is a result of consensual actions. Its not like the babies are implanted by aliens and then harvested by doctors.

There are countless reasons why a woman may not want to be pregnant. She doesn’t need to justify any of those reasons to you.

That is a decision for her and her doctor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

You sound like you know nothing about being pregnant and trying to have a healthy safe pregnancy. If you don't want a child you may choose to end the pregnancy.....but for most pregnant women that are trying not have a successful outcome you are not doing any of those things.

But the PP said it is not a person until born. Her body her choice right?

Proud pro-life mommy to three.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Interestingly, applications at southern schools are up—way up. I think a lot of kids were put off by the super woke cancel culture.

Rather than cut off all ties with the south, let’s try to figure out how we got here so we can then determine how to get things back on track.

Did your list include Virginia? The guy you elected already said he wants to take action, op. Or, are you only targeting “those Deep South” states dcum likes to criticize as backwards? I think your faux purple VA is just like the others on your list. So, shall we write off VA and aaaaaaalllllll those VA based corporations? Are you ready to bail on Amazon?

Not op, but I sure am.
Also, applications hardly reflect yesterday’s decision. And kids can continue to attend schools in these states - it’ll just be a lot more dangerous for the women. But, I support choice even if I disagree with the choice someone makes.

Literally 5% of the population lists abortion as their biggest issue that they’re voting on in the mid terms. This thread, and the posters on here, are way more focused on this issue than the majority of the population. This is becoming a boutique issue for upper middle class white women.

Voters are dumb AF. Wait until these draconian laws affect them personally.

The economy affects everyone. Abortion, not so much. Dems would have a better case if they weren’t aligning themselves with people who advocate for abortions up until birth for whatever reason given. In the age of high resolution ultrasounds that kind of stuff is not supported by more than 70 percent of the population and is banned in most countries and states because people think it is barbaric outside of exceptions for the the mother’s health. Dems need to stop aligning themselves with the far left fringe on social issues like this. It is not a winning model. Take Hillary’s advice and stick to “safe, legal, and rare” and don’t give any traction to the people who want to celebrate their abortions.

Red herring. 3rd trimester abortions are very rare and for very sad reasons.

Banning abortion will ultimately impact economy as well. You’ll drive more families into poverty. Decrease education rate. Increase crime rates. Etc.

We all lose.

Not a red herring. It is legal in states like New York to have an abortion up until birth for any reason. That is barbaric and most people in the country and around the world think so. It doesn’t matter that they’re very rare and done in very sad circumstances, it’s the fact that the law codifies that someone can abort a viable baby at 30 weeks if they felt like it for no reason that’s the issue.

If liberals would just stick to fighting for abortion in the first trimester and then abortion after that in special circumstances that are approved by a physician then you would have a lot more people on your side. When you start celebrating your abortions on IG and advocating for people’s rights to abort viable babies on a whim you lose a lot of people. Just stick to France’s abortions laws and stop advocating for barbarity to stick it to Trumpsters.

First of all, we do have a lot more people on our side. We have the majority of people on our side. Thanks for the advice, though.

Second, we have no problem with approval by a physician. We believe it should be a matter between the patient and the doctor. But that's not what forced-birthers have done - they've taken that decision away from the doctors and the patients and given it to state legislatures. And that's horrifying.

It is not legal in New York to have an abortion up to birth for any reason. Not even close. Patients who find out that they have fetal anomaly incompatible with life in NY often have to travel out of state for an abortion. You can get an abortion before viability in New York. You don’t find out about many of these abnormalities until the anatomy scan, which takes place around 20 weeks. Viability is not 40 weeks or when the child could survive without EXTREME round the clock medical intervention (about 23 weeks). The children who do survive at that age if gestation will be disabled for life and require lifetime medical care.
Don’t make up your own facts when you want to win an argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:When will people understand that it isn't about abortion. It is about autonomy. It is about the right of a woman to control her body. Banning abortions is not about abortion, it is about controlling women. I wouldn't get one ever, if my daughter wanted one, I would take her but I would be sad about it. How I feel about abortion or how I feel about anything shouldn't take precedence over another human being's autonomy in a civilized society.

Do you not get the pro-life position at all? They think it’s murder. You can’t tell someone who believes abortion is murder that they should be pro-choice about it. Your focus should be on explaining your views as to why you believe it’s not murder

Whether it is murder is irrelevant. The issue is whether a woman has bodily autonomy in the US period.

PP’s point is that you will not win over / convert many pro-life (anti-abortion) person with the autonomy argument. They consider the fetus a person and among, if not the, most vulnerable of all humans. They believe that having consensual sex (as opposed to rape) means that the adults involved are open to the possibility of creating a new life whether they use birth control or not. If they aren’t open to that then they should abstain. That’s the mindset.

They should recognize that their beliefs are based on their religion and they shouldn’t force their religion on others.

Believe whatever you want in your own home but don’t force it on others.

I’m an atheistic who shares this mindset. And why shouldn’t I “force” this belief on you?
Casey Anthony obviously believed she was within her right to kill her toddler. Is it wrong for us to force our moral objection to this on her?
The point is you need to focus your argument on explaining why it’s not murder. Not simply telling people who feel otherwise that committing murder should be a choice.

Because it’s not legally or morally murder. You aren’t a person until you are born.

So you are okay for a mother to choose to smoke crack, pot, cigs while pregnant? They can drink heavily too because they are not Carrying by a person?

Love the logic from the pro murder crowd!

You sound like you know nothing about being pregnant and trying to have a healthy safe pregnancy. If you don't want a child you may choose to end the pregnancy.....but for most pregnant women that are trying not have a successful outcome you are not doing any of those things.

But the PP said it is not a person until born. Her body her choice right?

Proud pro-life mommy to three.

Your grasping at straws. Have 3 more if you want...or 6....or 10...... that's fantastic and none of my business. Your views on my reproductive journey are not welcome or of any consideration as it should be.