Airplane noise concerns overblown?

[Anonymous]

Anywhere inside the P-56B is the real estate holy grail in DC. That’s Woodley Park and Mass Ave Heights.

[Anonymous]

This thread made me realize I haven't been hearing as many planes lately. Near Glen Echo.

[Anonymous]

Ok sure

[Anonymous]

No issue with plane in Cleveland park.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People in thread are clinically OCD. You all need help. FYI, DARIC is being changed sometime next year, which should lower noise along the nicest part of Bethesda (GEH, GE), so thank god for that.

If you are indeed involved with changes in Montgomery County, why don't you give us a full account of what is happening. Area residents only ever heard about Palisades, but some of the most significant changes in southflow operations are in Montgomery County. Strangely, there was never anything in the news. Here's my summary (excuse the typos):

2016 - The FAA consolidates all the flight paths for arrivals located primarily in Virginia and moves them to the Potomac River and Montgomery County. The waypoint FERGI is moved to Potomac near Avenel Country Club. A Reagan National Community Noise Working Group (established in October 2015) votes in favor of the new approach procedure. Montgomery County is absent from the vote.

Montgomery County files a lawsuit against the FAA. The lawsuit is thrown out of court not because of merit but timeliness.

Potomac residents on the Noise Working Group ask the FAA to relocate FERGI further north to areas with less population density. The FAA rejects the idea as not being operationally viable. The FAA is then asked if it is possible for the arriving airplanes to start their final descent at DARIC in Glen Echo i.e. over the river instead of FERGI irrespective of population density.

Montgomery County hires an independent consultant to design a flight path for arrivals at DARIC. The consultant is asked to disperse the flights over Bethesda and Potomac in an effort to decrease channelization over FERGI. (TAA Concept refers to the dispersal).

The new design is submitted to the FAA for review and approval. Pages 16 & 17 show before and after.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/legacyfiles/post_abcx2_presentation_of_noa_recommendations_to_cwg_20210722.pdf

The FAA examines and amends the proposal submitted by MoCo by moving waypoint DARIC west (referred to as new Daric) and away from Glen Echo to make the flight path feasible.

2021 - 2024 - TAA (dispersal) is being tested in Montgomery County with about 10 percent of the fleet. Complaints from unsuspecting MoCo residents pour in to MWAA.

As part of the re-design, the Working Group gives the FAA the green light to introduce the GPS procedure for arrivals. The FAA has been seeking this approval for some time. The new flight path has lower weather minimums which means the inclement weather procedure (LDA-Z) does not have to be used as often.

2022 - The FAA presents to the Working Group the final design of the new flight path for arrivals. Concerns are raised that the new route is closer to communities in the District. The FAA responds that this is the only option. The key benefit of the new procedure for the Palisades is that in inclement weather there will be fewer overflights.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2023-01/Final%20summary%2010-27-22%20DCA%20WG%20meeting%2050.pdf

In Montgomery County the plan is to expand TAA (dispersal) from 10 to 50 percent of the fleet and to begin the inclement weather procedure at DARIC instead of FERGI.

Also: The inclement weather procedure is temporarily suspended for several months. The runway is also being repaved which means fewer flights late at night and early in the morning until October 2024.

Glen Echo was very very lucky. Montgomery county wanted to shift all the arriving airplanes from Potomac to Glen Echo without any input from GE residents.

I am sick and tired of hearing the nonsense about universal benefits of shifting all the airplanes to the Potomac river. The only people who benefit are those who don’t live near the river.

[Anonymous]

I'm in Westmoreland Hills part of Bethesda. Should be far enough away that the planes are getting more altitude by the time they're over us (well, a bit to the south). But they're really loud and almost constant. Lately, it seems like I hear more helicopters as well.

[Anonymous]

I noticed the same

[Anonymous]

Your observations are correct.

At the request of Potomac residents on the dca noise community working group and Montgomery county the flight path for departures heading north and west was shifted to over the river and closer to Westmoreland Hills. It started in 2021. Your community was not consulted. In fact, the FAA opened a comment period for Montgomery county residents to provide input on the change, but your county representatives decided not to tell you about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fox5dc.com/news/new-faa-guidance-attempts-decrease-noise-residents-living-near-reagan-airport

Ken Buckley who was interviewed here is a great guy. We appreciate his work on this issue a lot. He is known for being a straight shooter, but this interview is just smoke and mirrors. I don't know what happened. As it he was reading somebody else's script.

I think he was asked to put himself out there and talk about the "benefits" of shifting planes to the river. He is being rather vague.

It is funny that the people who pushed for this change and who are the primary beneficiaries never gave any interviews about it as if not to draw any attention to themselves.

[Anonymous]

They used him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.fox5dc.com/news/new-faa-guidance-attempts-decrease-noise-residents-living-near-reagan-airport

Ken Buckley who was interviewed here is a great guy. We appreciate his work on this issue a lot. He is known for being a straight shooter, but this interview is just smoke and mirrors. I don't know what happened. As it he was reading somebody else's script.

I think he was asked to put himself out there and talk about the "benefits" of shifting planes to the river. He is being rather vague.

It is funny that the people who pushed for this change and who are the primary beneficiaries never gave any interviews about it as if not to draw any attention to themselves.

It is a game of winners and losers and those who are involved with the changes know it.

By the way, the Reagan National Community Working Group is meeting tonight , October 24 at 6 pm. It is on Zoom and open to the public. See your representatives in action (or not).

https://www.flyreagan.com/about-airport/aircraft-noise-information/dca-reagan-national-community-working-group

Agenda:
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2024-10/Agenda%20DCA%20WG%20Reg%20Meeting%20%2858%29_Oct%2024%202024.pdf

Members:
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2024-10/Reagan%20National_Noise%20Working%20Group_Voting%20Members_Oct102024_0.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find this quote interesting:

"But, Buckley adds, he’s noticed a marked decrease in the racket in the month since the FAA rolled out the new route. "

At the time of the interview, the new flight path was not yet in use in DC. It was quieter because the FAA suspended the inclement weather procedure for three months, as reported earlier.

The inclement weather procedure that was discussed here by Palisades residents is still suspended probably until mid November. However, the FAA has now started flying the inclement weather procedure over Arlington. The majority of noise complaints submitted to the airport recently came from Arlington residents. What's going on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People in thread are clinically OCD. You all need help. FYI, DARIC is being changed sometime next year, which should lower noise along the nicest part of Bethesda (GEH, GE), so thank god for that.

If you are indeed involved with changes in Montgomery County, why don't you give us a full account of what is happening. Area residents only ever heard about Palisades, but some of the most significant changes in southflow operations are in Montgomery County. Strangely, there was never anything in the news. Here's my summary (excuse the typos):

2016 - The FAA consolidates all the flight paths for arrivals located primarily in Virginia and moves them to the Potomac River and Montgomery County. The waypoint FERGI is moved to Potomac near Avenel Country Club. A Reagan National Community Noise Working Group (established in October 2015) votes in favor of the new approach procedure. Montgomery County is absent from the vote.

Montgomery County files a lawsuit against the FAA. The lawsuit is thrown out of court not because of merit but timeliness.

Potomac residents on the Noise Working Group ask the FAA to relocate FERGI further north to areas with less population density. The FAA rejects the idea as not being operationally viable. The FAA is then asked if it is possible for the arriving airplanes to start their final descent at DARIC in Glen Echo i.e. over the river instead of FERGI irrespective of population density.

Montgomery County hires an independent consultant to design a flight path for arrivals at DARIC. The consultant is asked to disperse the flights over Bethesda and Potomac in an effort to decrease channelization over FERGI. (TAA Concept refers to the dispersal).

The new design is submitted to the FAA for review and approval. Pages 16 & 17 show before and after.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/legacyfiles/post_abcx2_presentation_of_noa_recommendations_to_cwg_20210722.pdf

The FAA examines and amends the proposal submitted by MoCo by moving waypoint DARIC west (referred to as new Daric) and away from Glen Echo to make the flight path feasible.

2021 - 2024 - TAA (dispersal) is being tested in Montgomery County with about 10 percent of the fleet. Complaints from unsuspecting MoCo residents pour in to MWAA.

As part of the re-design, the Working Group gives the FAA the green light to introduce the GPS procedure for arrivals. The FAA has been seeking this approval for some time. The new flight path has lower weather minimums which means the inclement weather procedure (LDA-Z) does not have to be used as often.

2022 - The FAA presents to the Working Group the final design of the new flight path for arrivals. Concerns are raised that the new route is closer to communities in the District. The FAA responds that this is the only option. The key benefit of the new procedure for the Palisades is that in inclement weather there will be fewer overflights.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2023-01/Final%20summary%2010-27-22%20DCA%20WG%20meeting%2050.pdf

In Montgomery County the plan is to expand TAA (dispersal) from 10 to 50 percent of the fleet and to begin the inclement weather procedure at DARIC instead of FERGI.

Also: The inclement weather procedure is temporarily suspended for several months. The runway is also being repaved which means fewer flights late at night and early in the morning until October 2024.

I hope it is safe to vector all the planes over Montgomery County, especially when visibility is poor. The inclement weather procedure is now not to be used prior to reaching Glen Echo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread made me realize I haven't been hearing as many planes lately. Near Glen Echo.

What are you smoking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your observations are correct.

At the request of Potomac residents on the dca noise community working group and Montgomery county the flight path for departures heading north and west was shifted to over the river and closer to Westmoreland Hills. It started in 2021. Your community was not consulted. In fact, the FAA opened a comment period for Montgomery county residents to provide input on the change, but your county representatives decided not to tell you about it.

When I went to vote last week I felt that County Executive Marc Elrich needed to lose his job over this. I supported question A.