Airplane noise concerns overblown?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People in thread are clinically OCD. You all need help. FYI, DARIC is being changed sometime next year, which should lower noise along the nicest part of Bethesda (GEH, GE), so thank god for that.

If you are indeed involved with changes in Montgomery County, why don't you give us a full account of what is happening. Area residents only ever heard about Palisades, but some of the most significant changes in southflow operations are in Montgomery County. Strangely, there was never anything in the news. Here's my summary (excuse the typos):

2016 - The FAA consolidates all the flight paths for arrivals located primarily in Virginia and moves them to the Potomac River and Montgomery County. The waypoint FERGI is moved to Potomac near Avenel Country Club. A Reagan National Community Noise Working Group (established in October 2015) votes in favor of the new approach procedure. Montgomery County is absent from the vote.

Montgomery County files a lawsuit against the FAA. The lawsuit is thrown out of court not because of merit but timeliness.

Potomac residents on the Noise Working Group ask the FAA to relocate FERGI further north to areas with less population density. The FAA rejects the idea as not being operationally viable. The FAA is then asked if it is possible for the arriving airplanes to start their final descent at DARIC in Glen Echo i.e. over the river instead of FERGI irrespective of population density.

Montgomery County hires an independent consultant to design a flight path for arrivals at DARIC. The consultant is asked to disperse the flights over Bethesda and Potomac in an effort to decrease channelization over FERGI. (TAA Concept refers to the dispersal).

The new design is submitted to the FAA for review and approval. Pages 16 & 17 show before and after.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/legacyfiles/post_abcx2_presentation_of_noa_recommendations_to_cwg_20210722.pdf

The FAA examines and amends the proposal submitted by MoCo by moving waypoint DARIC west (referred to as new Daric) and away from Glen Echo to make the flight path feasible.

2021 - 2024 - TAA (dispersal) is being tested in Montgomery County with about 10 percent of the fleet. Complaints from unsuspecting MoCo residents pour in to MWAA.

As part of the re-design, the Working Group gives the FAA the green light to introduce the GPS procedure for arrivals. The FAA has been seeking this approval for some time. The new flight path has lower weather minimums which means the inclement weather procedure (LDA-Z) does not have to be used as often.

2022 - The FAA presents to the Working Group the final design of the new flight path for arrivals. Concerns are raised that the new route is closer to communities in the District. The FAA responds that this is the only option. The key benefit of the new procedure for the Palisades is that in inclement weather there will be fewer overflights.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2023-01/Final%20summary%2010-27-22%20DCA%20WG%20meeting%2050.pdf

In Montgomery County the plan is to expand TAA (dispersal) from 10 to 50 percent of the fleet and to begin the inclement weather procedure at DARIC instead of FERGI.

Also: The inclement weather procedure is temporarily suspended for several months. The runway is also being repaved which means fewer flights late at night and early in the morning until October 2024.

"Complaints from unsuspecting MoCo residents pour in"

Typical Montgomery County.....Keep the residents in the dark.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People in thread are clinically OCD. You all need help. FYI, DARIC is being changed sometime next year, which should lower noise along the nicest part of Bethesda (GEH, GE), so thank god for that.

If you are indeed involved with changes in Montgomery County, why don't you give us a full account of what is happening. Area residents only ever heard about Palisades, but some of the most significant changes in southflow operations are in Montgomery County. Strangely, there was never anything in the news. Here's my summary (excuse the typos):

2016 - The FAA consolidates all the flight paths for arrivals located primarily in Virginia and moves them to the Potomac River and Montgomery County. The waypoint FERGI is moved to Potomac near Avenel Country Club. A Reagan National Community Noise Working Group (established in October 2015) votes in favor of the new approach procedure. Montgomery County is absent from the vote.

Montgomery County files a lawsuit against the FAA. The lawsuit is thrown out of court not because of merit but timeliness.

Potomac residents on the Noise Working Group ask the FAA to relocate FERGI further north to areas with less population density. The FAA rejects the idea as not being operationally viable. The FAA is then asked if it is possible for the arriving airplanes to start their final descent at DARIC in Glen Echo i.e. over the river instead of FERGI irrespective of population density.

Montgomery County hires an independent consultant to design a flight path for arrivals at DARIC. The consultant is asked to disperse the flights over Bethesda and Potomac in an effort to decrease channelization over FERGI. (TAA Concept refers to the dispersal).

The new design is submitted to the FAA for review and approval. Pages 16 & 17 show before and after.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/legacyfiles/post_abcx2_presentation_of_noa_recommendations_to_cwg_20210722.pdf

The FAA examines and amends the proposal submitted by MoCo by moving waypoint DARIC west (referred to as new Daric) and away from Glen Echo to make the flight path feasible.

2021 - 2024 - TAA (dispersal) is being tested in Montgomery County with about 10 percent of the fleet. Complaints from unsuspecting MoCo residents pour in to MWAA.

As part of the re-design, the Working Group gives the FAA the green light to introduce the GPS procedure for arrivals. The FAA has been seeking this approval for some time. The new flight path has lower weather minimums which means the inclement weather procedure (LDA-Z) does not have to be used as often.

2022 - The FAA presents to the Working Group the final design of the new flight path for arrivals. Concerns are raised that the new route is closer to communities in the District. The FAA responds that this is the only option. The key benefit of the new procedure for the Palisades is that in inclement weather there will be fewer overflights.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2023-01/Final%20summary%2010-27-22%20DCA%20WG%20meeting%2050.pdf

In Montgomery County the plan is to expand TAA (dispersal) from 10 to 50 percent of the fleet and to begin the inclement weather procedure at DARIC instead of FERGI.

Also: The inclement weather procedure is temporarily suspended for several months. The runway is also being repaved which means fewer flights late at night and early in the morning until October 2024.

"Complaints from unsuspecting MoCo residents pour in"

Typical Montgomery County.....Keep the residents in the dark.

I can tell you that those who made inquiries by calling the airport directly were told that the FAA was behind all the changes and "there is nothing you can do about it".

The FAA is only responding to demands in this case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about people who have lived in Potomac for 20 plus years and the amount of planes flying over head has increased exponentially. It was not an issue at the time. It begins around 5:30am and continues late into the evening. Sometimes during the day 3-4
Planes fly every 10 minutes.

My understanding is that the situation in Potomac is a lot better than further south in moco. Every 10 minutes? It's like every 2 mins (or worse) at some points during the day in Brookmont.

You do realize that the Potomac residents are running this show, right?

Yes, I am aware of this fact. Sad that they still complain, but increasing wealth tends to go hand in hand with being an obstreperous ass.

100%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Palisades Airplane Noise
@PalisadesN
·
Follow
As observed by residents north of DCA, the frequency of flights overhead appears to have increased. The increased flights do no reflect more overall DCA air traffic, but rather the result of decisions by FAA operations to overuse northbound at 65% northbound versus 35% south.
7:36 PM · Nov 8, 2022

Since Labor Day is has been North flow 100%, south flow ZERO. I was told by the airport that planes will depart North if the winds are blowing North, East, West, or no winds. Only chance of Southern flow is if the winds are blowing South. No way is it 65/35 - I wish it was. For much of the year it is 85 to 100 North.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Palisades Airplane Noise
@PalisadesN
·
Follow
As observed by residents north of DCA, the frequency of flights overhead appears to have increased. The increased flights do no reflect more overall DCA air traffic, but rather the result of decisions by FAA operations to overuse northbound at 65% northbound versus 35% south.
7:36 PM · Nov 8, 2022

Since Labor Day is has been North flow 100%, south flow ZERO. I was told by the airport that planes will depart North if the winds are blowing North, East, West, or no winds. Only chance of Southern flow is if the winds are blowing South. No way is it 65/35 - I wish it was. For much of the year it is 85 to 100 North.

Why don't you contact your representatives on the Working Group and ask them to do something about it. The Potomac representatives on the Working Group constantly cry about too many south flow operations during those quarterly meetings at the airport. The rest of them from communities north of the airport seem too afraid to speak up. In fact the FAA seems to be under the impression that this is what everybody prefers. It was clear at the last meeting.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2024-07/Reagan%20National_Noise%20Working%20Group_Voting%20Members_July%2030%202024.pdf

The fact that planes take off to the north in east/west/no wind situations is totally random. The FAA states that they do it because this is what pilots prefer. It does not have to be this way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Palisades Airplane Noise
@PalisadesN
·
Follow
As observed by residents north of DCA, the frequency of flights overhead appears to have increased. The increased flights do no reflect more overall DCA air traffic, but rather the result of decisions by FAA operations to overuse northbound at 65% northbound versus 35% south.
7:36 PM · Nov 8, 2022

Since Labor Day is has been North flow 100%, south flow ZERO. I was told by the airport that planes will depart North if the winds are blowing North, East, West, or no winds. Only chance of Southern flow is if the winds are blowing South. No way is it 65/35 - I wish it was. For much of the year it is 85 to 100 North.

Why don't you contact your representatives on the Working Group and ask them to do something about it. The Potomac representatives on the Working Group constantly cry about too many south flow operations during those quarterly meetings at the airport. The rest of them from communities north of the airport seem too afraid to speak up. In fact the FAA seems to be under the impression that this is what everybody prefers. It was clear at the last meeting.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com...July%2030%202024.pdf

The fact that planes take off to the north in east/west/no wind situations is totally random. The FAA states that they do it because this is what pilots prefer. It does not have to be this way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Next to nothing. The noise is from the 400+ departing aircraft

So this is next to nothing?
"Question: This proposal has an increase in noise for Georgetown. People are going to wonder how they’re able to do this without an EA"
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2023-01/Final%20summary%2010-27-22%20DCA%20WG%20meeting%2050.pdf

Can you let the residents see the noise analysis? Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Palisades Airplane Noise
@PalisadesN
·
Follow
As observed by residents north of DCA, the frequency of flights overhead appears to have increased. The increased flights do no reflect more overall DCA air traffic, but rather the result of decisions by FAA operations to overuse northbound at 65% northbound versus 35% south.
7:36 PM · Nov 8, 2022

Since Labor Day is has been North flow 100%, south flow ZERO. I was told by the airport that planes will depart North if the winds are blowing North, East, West, or no winds. Only chance of Southern flow is if the winds are blowing South. No way is it 65/35 - I wish it was. For much of the year it is 85 to 100 North.

I wonder if something else is going on. Today winds are blowing from East South. In the past we would often be in southflow with such winds but not today.

According to the summary of all the changes posted here recently, the arriving airplanes are dispersed over Potomac and Bethesda to lessen the noise for a small community in MOCO. Do traffic controllers have more work because of this? Do they have to provide guidance to each pilot approaching DCA? I wonder if now there is more pressure to be in northflow whenever possible. Is this a case of unintended consequences? Ken has been very quiet on the issue over the last year.

[Anonymous]

Who knew it could get (even) worse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People in thread are clinically OCD. You all need help. FYI, DARIC is being changed sometime next year, which should lower noise along the nicest part of Bethesda (GEH, GE), so thank god for that.

If you are indeed involved with changes in Montgomery County, why don't you give us a full account of what is happening. Area residents only ever heard about Palisades, but some of the most significant changes in southflow operations are in Montgomery County. Strangely, there was never anything in the news. Here's my summary (excuse the typos):

2016 - The FAA consolidates all the flight paths for arrivals located primarily in Virginia and moves them to the Potomac River and Montgomery County. The waypoint FERGI is moved to Potomac near Avenel Country Club. A Reagan National Community Noise Working Group (established in October 2015) votes in favor of the new approach procedure. Montgomery County is absent from the vote.

Montgomery County files a lawsuit against the FAA. The lawsuit is thrown out of court not because of merit but timeliness.

Potomac residents on the Noise Working Group ask the FAA to relocate FERGI further north to areas with less population density. The FAA rejects the idea as not being operationally viable. The FAA is then asked if it is possible for the arriving airplanes to start their final descent at DARIC in Glen Echo i.e. over the river instead of FERGI irrespective of population density.

Montgomery County hires an independent consultant to design a flight path for arrivals at DARIC. The consultant is asked to disperse the flights over Bethesda and Potomac in an effort to decrease channelization over FERGI. (TAA Concept refers to the dispersal).

The new design is submitted to the FAA for review and approval. Pages 16 & 17 show before and after.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/legacyfiles/post_abcx2_presentation_of_noa_recommendations_to_cwg_20210722.pdf

The FAA examines and amends the proposal submitted by MoCo by moving waypoint DARIC west (referred to as new Daric) and away from Glen Echo to make the flight path feasible.

2021 - 2024 - TAA (dispersal) is being tested in Montgomery County with about 10 percent of the fleet. Complaints from unsuspecting MoCo residents pour in to MWAA.

As part of the re-design, the Working Group gives the FAA the green light to introduce the GPS procedure for arrivals. The FAA has been seeking this approval for some time. The new flight path has lower weather minimums which means the inclement weather procedure (LDA-Z) does not have to be used as often.

2022 - The FAA presents to the Working Group the final design of the new flight path for arrivals. Concerns are raised that the new route is closer to communities in the District. The FAA responds that this is the only option. The key benefit of the new procedure for the Palisades is that in inclement weather there will be fewer overflights.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2023-01/Final%20summary%2010-27-22%20DCA%20WG%20meeting%2050.pdf

In Montgomery County the plan is to expand TAA (dispersal) from 10 to 50 percent of the fleet and to begin the inclement weather procedure at DARIC instead of FERGI.

Also: The inclement weather procedure is temporarily suspended for several months. The runway is also being repaved which means fewer flights late at night and early in the morning until October 2024.

We need this for departures too. A summary of all the changes over the last few years.

Airplanes are taking off to the north today, but the winds are blowing from the south. Anybody knows why?

[Anonymous]

While airplanes are taking off to the north at DCA they are taking off to the south at Dulles. It has been like that all morning.

[Anonymous]

Wow! The winds are still from the south and we are in northflow.

[Anonymous]

Did somebody say recently we were going to have less racket as a result of the recent changes? The only change I see is that we now have departures to the north on days with winds from the South like today. Is this even safe?

[Anonymous]

This! It’s unbearable

[Anonymous]

In Kalorama - in love with the neighborhood but the planes are driving me insane -I have tried to ignore it but it really is relentless. I am now looking to move - anyone know how the plane noise is in Wesley Heights, Woodley Park, Cathedral Heights, Cleveland Park etc? Thank you.