Airplane noise concerns overblown?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your observations are correct.

At the request of Potomac residents on the dca noise community working group and Montgomery county the flight path for departures heading north and west was shifted to over the river and closer to Westmoreland Hills. It started in 2021. Your community was not consulted. In fact, the FAA opened a comment period for Montgomery county residents to provide input on the change, but your county representatives decided not to tell you about it.

When I went to vote last week I felt that County Executive Marc Elrich needed to lose his job over this. I supported question A.

Good person. I did the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your observations are correct.

At the request of Potomac residents on the dca noise community working group and Montgomery county the flight path for departures heading north and west was shifted to over the river and closer to Westmoreland Hills. It started in 2021. Your community was not consulted. In fact, the FAA opened a comment period for Montgomery county residents to provide input on the change, but your county representatives decided not to tell you about it.

Montgomery County also spent public funds on a consultant to do a noise analysis. It showed an increase in noise following the shift of the flight path in 2021 for all the Bethesda neighborhoods east of the river. Duh....

The analysis was never shown to the public.

[Anonymous]

When the new administration starts looking for inefficiencies in fed govt, the DCA Noise Working Group may be the first to be looked at. It seems that the cost as well as effort required of the FAA to satisfy a few individuals with their own personal agendas may not be worth it.

[Anonymous]

I don’t live anywhere close to airplane noise but visiting friends along the Potomac/DCA flight path I hardly notice it when indoors. It’s definitely noticeable outdoors but not always terrible. I do wonder about the long term exposure to increased emissions though.

When I lived in Arlington one approach to DCA made it nearly impossible to concentrate, but it was rarely used. When the planes would come in from that direction they’d be really low and the whole building would shake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When the new administration starts looking for inefficiencies in fed govt, the DCA Noise Working Group may be the first to be looked at. It seems that the cost as well as effort required of the FAA to satisfy a few individuals with their own personal agendas may not be worth it.

I hope so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When the new administration starts looking for inefficiencies in fed govt, the DCA Noise Working Group may be the first to be looked at. It seems that the cost as well as effort required of the FAA to satisfy a few individuals with their own personal agendas may not be worth it.

I hope so.

I hope you have the pleasure of inhaling 495 exhaust fumes daily and enjoying the consequences thereof as this new administration gets bigly underway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People in thread are clinically OCD. You all need help. FYI, DARIC is being changed sometime next year, which should lower noise along the nicest part of Bethesda (GEH, GE), so thank god for that.

If you are indeed involved with changes in Montgomery County, why don't you give us a full account of what is happening. Area residents only ever heard about Palisades, but some of the most significant changes in southflow operations are in Montgomery County. Strangely, there was never anything in the news. Here's my summary (excuse the typos):

2016 - The FAA consolidates all the flight paths for arrivals located primarily in Virginia and moves them to the Potomac River and Montgomery County. The waypoint FERGI is moved to Potomac near Avenel Country Club. A Reagan National Community Noise Working Group (established in October 2015) votes in favor of the new approach procedure. Montgomery County is absent from the vote.

Montgomery County files a lawsuit against the FAA. The lawsuit is thrown out of court not because of merit but timeliness.

Potomac residents on the Noise Working Group ask the FAA to relocate FERGI further north to areas with less population density. The FAA rejects the idea as not being operationally viable. The FAA is then asked if it is possible for the arriving airplanes to start their final descent at DARIC in Glen Echo i.e. over the river instead of FERGI irrespective of population density.

Montgomery County hires an independent consultant to design a flight path for arrivals at DARIC. The consultant is asked to disperse the flights over Bethesda and Potomac in an effort to decrease channelization over FERGI. (TAA Concept refers to the dispersal).

The new design is submitted to the FAA for review and approval. Pages 16 & 17 show before and after.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/legacyfiles/post_abcx2_presentation_of_noa_recommendations_to_cwg_20210722.pdf

The FAA examines and amends the proposal submitted by MoCo by moving waypoint DARIC west (referred to as new Daric) and away from Glen Echo to make the flight path feasible.

2021 - 2024 - TAA (dispersal) is being tested in Montgomery County with about 10 percent of the fleet. Complaints from unsuspecting MoCo residents pour in to MWAA.

As part of the re-design, the Working Group gives the FAA the green light to introduce the GPS procedure for arrivals. The FAA has been seeking this approval for some time. The new flight path has lower weather minimums which means the inclement weather procedure (LDA-Z) does not have to be used as often.

2022 - The FAA presents to the Working Group the final design of the new flight path for arrivals. Concerns are raised that the new route is closer to communities in the District. The FAA responds that this is the only option. The key benefit of the new procedure for the Palisades is that in inclement weather there will be fewer overflights.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2023-01/Final%20summary%2010-27-22%20DCA%20WG%20meeting%2050.pdf

In Montgomery County the plan is to expand TAA (dispersal) from 10 to 50 percent of the fleet and to begin the inclement weather procedure at DARIC instead of FERGI.

Also: The inclement weather procedure is temporarily suspended for several months. The runway is also being repaved which means fewer flights late at night and early in the morning until October 2024.

"Complaints from unsuspecting MoCo residents pour in"

Typical Montgomery County.....Keep the residents in the dark.

I can tell you that those who made inquiries by calling the airport directly were told that the FAA was behind all the changes and "there is nothing you can do about it".

The FAA is only responding to demands in this case.

There are numerous reports on other MOCO discussion forums or social media platforms from those who called the airport noise line only to be told that the FAA is the one responsible for the flight path change and the resulting increase in noise and nothing that it is the Community Working Group at DCA that pushed and voted for every single procedure change that took place in Montgomery County over the last 5 years.

Have the relationships between the FAA, MWAA and the community members on the DCA Working Group become too cozy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t live anywhere close to airplane noise but visiting friends along the Potomac/DCA flight path I hardly notice it when indoors. It’s definitely noticeable outdoors but not always terrible. I do wonder about the long term exposure to increased emissions though.

When I lived in Arlington one approach to DCA made it nearly impossible to concentrate, but it was rarely used. When the planes would come in from that direction they’d be really low and the whole building would shake.

For the majority of the people living north of the airport departures are worse than arrivals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People in thread are clinically OCD. You all need help. FYI, DARIC is being changed sometime next year, which should lower noise along the nicest part of Bethesda (GEH, GE), so thank god for that.

If you are indeed involved with changes in Montgomery County, why don't you give us a full account of what is happening. Area residents only ever heard about Palisades, but some of the most significant changes in southflow operations are in Montgomery County. Strangely, there was never anything in the news. Here's my summary (excuse the typos):

2016 - The FAA consolidates all the flight paths for arrivals located primarily in Virginia and moves them to the Potomac River and Montgomery County. The waypoint FERGI is moved to Potomac near Avenel Country Club. A Reagan National Community Noise Working Group (established in October 2015) votes in favor of the new approach procedure. Montgomery County is absent from the vote.

Montgomery County files a lawsuit against the FAA. The lawsuit is thrown out of court not because of merit but timeliness.

Potomac residents on the Noise Working Group ask the FAA to relocate FERGI further north to areas with less population density. The FAA rejects the idea as not being operationally viable. The FAA is then asked if it is possible for the arriving airplanes to start their final descent at DARIC in Glen Echo i.e. over the river instead of FERGI irrespective of population density.

Montgomery County hires an independent consultant to design a flight path for arrivals at DARIC. The consultant is asked to disperse the flights over Bethesda and Potomac in an effort to decrease channelization over FERGI. (TAA Concept refers to the dispersal).

The new design is submitted to the FAA for review and approval. Pages 16 & 17 show before and after.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/legacyfiles/post_abcx2_presentation_of_noa_recommendations_to_cwg_20210722.pdf

The FAA examines and amends the proposal submitted by MoCo by moving waypoint DARIC west (referred to as new Daric) and away from Glen Echo to make the flight path feasible.

2021 - 2024 - TAA (dispersal) is being tested in Montgomery County with about 10 percent of the fleet. Complaints from unsuspecting MoCo residents pour in to MWAA.

As part of the re-design, the Working Group gives the FAA the green light to introduce the GPS procedure for arrivals. The FAA has been seeking this approval for some time. The new flight path has lower weather minimums which means the inclement weather procedure (LDA-Z) does not have to be used as often.

2022 - The FAA presents to the Working Group the final design of the new flight path for arrivals. Concerns are raised that the new route is closer to communities in the District. The FAA responds that this is the only option. The key benefit of the new procedure for the Palisades is that in inclement weather there will be fewer overflights.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2023-01/Final%20summary%2010-27-22%20DCA%20WG%20meeting%2050.pdf

In Montgomery County the plan is to expand TAA (dispersal) from 10 to 50 percent of the fleet and to begin the inclement weather procedure at DARIC instead of FERGI.

Also: The inclement weather procedure is temporarily suspended for several months. The runway is also being repaved which means fewer flights late at night and early in the morning until October 2024.

"Complaints from unsuspecting MoCo residents pour in"

Typical Montgomery County.....Keep the residents in the dark.

I can tell you that those who made inquiries by calling the airport directly were told that the FAA was behind all the changes and "there is nothing you can do about it".

The FAA is only responding to demands in this case.

There are numerous reports on other MOCO discussion forums or social media platforms from those who called the airport noise line only to be told that the FAA is the one responsible for the flight path change and the resulting increase in noise and nothing that it is the Community Working Group at DCA that pushed and voted for every single procedure change that took place in Montgomery County over the last 5 years.

Have the relationships between the FAA, MWAA and the community members on the DCA Working Group become too cozy?

At least I was referred to the Montgomery County Quiet Skies Coalition for more information. However, it does not take long to discover that the people on the Working Group at DCA and the MoCo Quiet Skies coalition are the same people from the Potomac and Cabin John area. Those on the Working Group use Quiet Skies Coalition to give themselves legitimacy. I was informed that the entire Working Group wanted the changes in Montgomery County and voted for them. What a racket. People in Alexandria or Palisades are making decisions about Montgomery County and Montgomery County residents have no say in anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We live in Chevy Chase West (just north of Somerset, pretty close to Kenwood) & the airplane noise has been far worse recently than in years past. In particular, the noise right around 6am is ridiculous for about 30-45 minutes. Absolutely functions like an alarm close. OP who's visiting the neighborhood -- make sure you get there at 545am!

Three years ago the noise increased for everyone in your area, including Kenwood and Somerset. Montgomery County asked the FAA to move the flight path towards you. Page 4 shows in yellow how the noise shifted east as a result. They placed a new waypoint called RGIII over Glen Echo.

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/air_traffic/community_engagement/dca_p56/MD_SHPO_Notice_of_Availability_Letter_DCA_Permanent_HOLTB.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your observations are correct.

At the request of Potomac residents on the dca noise community working group and Montgomery county the flight path for departures heading north and west was shifted to over the river and closer to Westmoreland Hills. It started in 2021. Your community was not consulted. In fact, the FAA opened a comment period for Montgomery county residents to provide input on the change, but your county representatives decided not to tell you about it.

Bethesda was not the only community thrown under the bus. Spring Valley was also affected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live in Chevy Chase West (just north of Somerset, pretty close to Kenwood) & the airplane noise has been far worse recently than in years past. In particular, the noise right around 6am is ridiculous for about 30-45 minutes. Absolutely functions like an alarm close. OP who's visiting the neighborhood -- make sure you get there at 545am!

Three years ago the noise increased for everyone in your area, including Kenwood and Somerset. Montgomery County asked the FAA to move the flight path towards you. Page 4 shows in yellow how the noise shifted east as a result. They placed a new waypoint called RGIII over Glen Echo.

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/air_traffic/community_engagement/dca_p56/MD_SHPO_Notice_of_Availability_Letter_DCA_Permanent_HOLTB.pdf

Thanks. This is an important post. How can the affected communities push back to let legislatures and those in charge know that the current situation is not at all ideal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People in thread are clinically OCD. You all need help. FYI, DARIC is being changed sometime next year, which should lower noise along the nicest part of Bethesda (GEH, GE), so thank god for that.

If you are indeed involved with changes in Montgomery County, why don't you give us a full account of what is happening. Area residents only ever heard about Palisades, but some of the most significant changes in southflow operations are in Montgomery County. Strangely, there was never anything in the news. Here's my summary (excuse the typos):

2016 - The FAA consolidates all the flight paths for arrivals located primarily in Virginia and moves them to the Potomac River and Montgomery County. The waypoint FERGI is moved to Potomac near Avenel Country Club. A Reagan National Community Noise Working Group (established in October 2015) votes in favor of the new approach procedure. Montgomery County is absent from the vote.

Montgomery County files a lawsuit against the FAA. The lawsuit is thrown out of court not because of merit but timeliness.

Potomac residents on the Noise Working Group ask the FAA to relocate FERGI further north to areas with less population density. The FAA rejects the idea as not being operationally viable. The FAA is then asked if it is possible for the arriving airplanes to start their final descent at DARIC in Glen Echo i.e. over the river instead of FERGI irrespective of population density.

Montgomery County hires an independent consultant to design a flight path for arrivals at DARIC. The consultant is asked to disperse the flights over Bethesda and Potomac in an effort to decrease channelization over FERGI. (TAA Concept refers to the dispersal).

The new design is submitted to the FAA for review and approval. Pages 16 & 17 show before and after.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/legacyfiles/post_abcx2_presentation_of_noa_recommendations_to_cwg_20210722.pdf

The FAA examines and amends the proposal submitted by MoCo by moving waypoint DARIC west (referred to as new Daric) and away from Glen Echo to make the flight path feasible.

2021 - 2024 - TAA (dispersal) is being tested in Montgomery County with about 10 percent of the fleet. Complaints from unsuspecting MoCo residents pour in to MWAA.

As part of the re-design, the Working Group gives the FAA the green light to introduce the GPS procedure for arrivals. The FAA has been seeking this approval for some time. The new flight path has lower weather minimums which means the inclement weather procedure (LDA-Z) does not have to be used as often.

2022 - The FAA presents to the Working Group the final design of the new flight path for arrivals. Concerns are raised that the new route is closer to communities in the District. The FAA responds that this is the only option. The key benefit of the new procedure for the Palisades is that in inclement weather there will be fewer overflights.
https://www.flyreagan.com/sites/flyreagan.com/files/2023-01/Final%20summary%2010-27-22%20DCA%20WG%20meeting%2050.pdf

In Montgomery County the plan is to expand TAA (dispersal) from 10 to 50 percent of the fleet and to begin the inclement weather procedure at DARIC instead of FERGI.

Also: The inclement weather procedure is temporarily suspended for several months. The runway is also being repaved which means fewer flights late at night and early in the morning until October 2024.

"Complaints from unsuspecting MoCo residents pour in"

Typical Montgomery County.....Keep the residents in the dark.

I can tell you that those who made inquiries by calling the airport directly were told that the FAA was behind all the changes and "there is nothing you can do about it".

The FAA is only responding to demands in this case.

There are numerous reports on other MOCO discussion forums or social media platforms from those who called the airport noise line only to be told that the FAA is the one responsible for the flight path change and the resulting increase in noise and nothing that it is the Community Working Group at DCA that pushed and voted for every single procedure change that took place in Montgomery County over the last 5 years.

Have the relationships between the FAA, MWAA and the community members on the DCA Working Group become too cozy?

If MWAA employees get compensated for participating in this work group, their priorities are likely to be affected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to ask, but can someone other than the clearly very-bothered individual who makes all of the airplane noise posts on this forum please chip in their perspectives on airplane noise in the Cabin John, Potomac, Glen Echo, Palisades neighborhoods? I was over there today and it didn't seem that bad.

We live in one of those hoods and it does not bother us.

That said local communities were very proactive in lobbying to get better enforcement of existing laws and to reduce air traffic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to ask, but can someone other than the clearly very-bothered individual who makes all of the airplane noise posts on this forum please chip in their perspectives on airplane noise in the Cabin John, Potomac, Glen Echo, Palisades neighborhoods? I was over there today and it didn't seem that bad.

We live in one of those hoods and it does not bother us.

That said local communities were very proactive in lobbying to get better enforcement of existing laws and to reduce air traffic.

Air traffic increased. This is the highest it has ever been.

The airlines succeeded in adding several long haul flights as an exception to the perimeter rule.

Efforts to create a better balance between north flow and south flow operations were stifled by a small minority.

Proactive does not mean successful.