JD preferred jobs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Options:

1. Start volunteering at legal aid pro bono to get some lawyering experience under supervision. They have training programs specific to the advice you will be giving. Here is a link to training if you are in DC: https://www.dcbar.org/pro-bono/resources-and-training

2. HR certification: Get an entry level job in HR, do it for one year and then start the process to become certified. Once you do that you can move up the ranks in HR and your law degree will be of value. https://www.shrm.org/certification/about/Pages/Not-Sure-Where-To-Begin.aspx

3. Start attending every and any training sessions available at your bar association. This is about training and networking.

4. Invest in your next step: get a masters degree in legal studies in a compliance area that interests you. Health care is an excellent and extremely marketable choice, and you can do it on line: https://www.online.drexel.edu/online-degrees/law-degrees/cert-hc-comp/index.aspx

Take control and take action. Also consider seeing your doctor for depression.

Good thoughts.

OP, I worked in e-discovery when I first moved to DC (over a decade ago). I was pregnant at the time and wasn't getting hired elsewhere (surprise!), though I had 1-2 years prior experience in my field. E-discovery was easy and flexible and paid well given the language bump. However, the flexibility allowed me to simultaneously open a sole proprietorship that admittedly made peanuts initially. I kept e-discovery as a steady paycheck until the side gig started to gain traction. Though e-discovery I did meet folks, passed my name around in my niche area, and made 1 really good connection (of the dozens of feelers that I put out). I finally opted to quit e-discovery to be hired as a FREAKING asst/paralegal in my field of choice because the small firm needed someone virtual and was willing to train. I worked with them doing the grunt work but more importantly getting valuable experience and learning the ropes so that I would feel more comfortably going out on my own. That ended after about a year because as the gods would have it, my managing atty wanted to leave that field and do something new. She passed off one of her corp clients to me for my budding practice after we negotiated a reasonable fee between us. Since I'd simultaneously been working on my own business it was enough to get me moving. That was about 10 years ago and I now do well enough to support my solo practice. I don't make a ton by DCUM standards but I bring home between 300-350k. That is really all that I need, though I do hope to keep growing.

I share this because, honestly, if you humble yourself and start at zero you can build up. You also have to really want to make it work badly enough. I know that lots of people will say that it may not be financially feasible for all, and they are 100% correct. I do offer the story, however, because I did drudge it out in e-discovery for a few years and backtracked to a paralegal position. I cried about that for a year but it was a great classroom for me. This may be helpful to OP to push her to something new.

What kind of niche is this? 300k is awesome particularly for a solo practitioner.

I worked for a summer in college for an ambulance chaser that did several million in a great year and broke even in a bad year.

I have a friend who left corp to do personal injury. She said it was embarrassing but didn't care. She put up billboards on the highway and is now making ridiculous bank. Don't know that I could ever do that but man do those people make ridiculous money.

It's the having to represent the slip and falls or neck and back pain car crashes to pay the bills that's embarrassing. The MBA student paralyzed while working constriction part time or the young family killed by a drunk diver with assets come along once every few years (and yes it is awful and morbid to have to think like that)

That is true, but my understanding that those cases are few and far between. She said that the vast majority of their cases were "template" work so motions and pleadings drafting are sent overseas to Indian contract workers for cheap cut/paste from templates and then shipped back to US for paralegals to file. It's factory work where they make $$$. From what I gathered, the large PI offices work this way to minimize overhead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Options:

1. Start volunteering at legal aid pro bono to get some lawyering experience under supervision. They have training programs specific to the advice you will be giving. Here is a link to training if you are in DC: https://www.dcbar.org/pro-bono/resources-and-training

2. HR certification: Get an entry level job in HR, do it for one year and then start the process to become certified. Once you do that you can move up the ranks in HR and your law degree will be of value. https://www.shrm.org/certification/about/Pages/Not-Sure-Where-To-Begin.aspx

3. Start attending every and any training sessions available at your bar association. This is about training and networking.

4. Invest in your next step: get a masters degree in legal studies in a compliance area that interests you. Health care is an excellent and extremely marketable choice, and you can do it on line: https://www.online.drexel.edu/online-degrees/law-degrees/cert-hc-comp/index.aspx

Take control and take action. Also consider seeing your doctor for depression.

Good thoughts.

OP, I worked in e-discovery when I first moved to DC (over a decade ago). I was pregnant at the time and wasn't getting hired elsewhere (surprise!), though I had 1-2 years prior experience in my field. E-discovery was easy and flexible and paid well given the language bump. However, the flexibility allowed me to simultaneously open a sole proprietorship that admittedly made peanuts initially. I kept e-discovery as a steady paycheck until the side gig started to gain traction. Though e-discovery I did meet folks, passed my name around in my niche area, and made 1 really good connection (of the dozens of feelers that I put out). I finally opted to quit e-discovery to be hired as a FREAKING asst/paralegal in my field of choice because the small firm needed someone virtual and was willing to train. I worked with them doing the grunt work but more importantly getting valuable experience and learning the ropes so that I would feel more comfortably going out on my own. That ended after about a year because as the gods would have it, my managing atty wanted to leave that field and do something new. She passed off one of her corp clients to me for my budding practice after we negotiated a reasonable fee between us. Since I'd simultaneously been working on my own business it was enough to get me moving. That was about 10 years ago and I now do well enough to support my solo practice. I don't make a ton by DCUM standards but I bring home between 300-350k. That is really all that I need, though I do hope to keep growing.

I share this because, honestly, if you humble yourself and start at zero you can build up. You also have to really want to make it work badly enough. I know that lots of people will say that it may not be financially feasible for all, and they are 100% correct. I do offer the story, however, because I did drudge it out in e-discovery for a few years and backtracked to a paralegal position. I cried about that for a year but it was a great classroom for me. This may be helpful to OP to push her to something new.

What kind of niche is this? 300k is awesome particularly for a solo practitioner.

I worked for a summer in college for an ambulance chaser that did several million in a great year and broke even in a bad year.

I have a friend who left corp to do personal injury. She said it was embarrassing but didn't care. She put up billboards on the highway and is now making ridiculous bank. Don't know that I could ever do that but man do those people make ridiculous money.

It's the having to represent the slip and falls or neck and back pain car crashes to pay the bills that's embarrassing. The MBA student paralyzed while working constriction part time or the young family killed by a drunk diver with assets come along once every few years (and yes it is awful and morbid to have to think like that)

That is true, but my understanding that those cases are few and far between. She said that the vast majority of their cases were "template" work so motions and pleadings drafting are sent overseas to Indian contract workers for cheap cut/paste from templates and then shipped back to US for paralegals to file. It's factory work where they make $$$. From what I gathered, the large PI offices work this way to minimize overhead.

It's all a pretty well oiled machine, and in most cases you never have to file anything in court. You send a form letter to the adjuster with the final medical bills and then hammer out a settlement over a 20 minute phone call

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Options:

1. Start volunteering at legal aid pro bono to get some lawyering experience under supervision. They have training programs specific to the advice you will be giving. Here is a link to training if you are in DC: https://www.dcbar.org/pro-bono/resources-and-training

2. HR certification: Get an entry level job in HR, do it for one year and then start the process to become certified. Once you do that you can move up the ranks in HR and your law degree will be of value. https://www.shrm.org/certification/about/Pages/Not-Sure-Where-To-Begin.aspx

3. Start attending every and any training sessions available at your bar association. This is about training and networking.

4. Invest in your next step: get a masters degree in legal studies in a compliance area that interests you. Health care is an excellent and extremely marketable choice, and you can do it on line: https://www.online.drexel.edu/online-degrees/law-degrees/cert-hc-comp/index.aspx

Take control and take action. Also consider seeing your doctor for depression.

Good thoughts.

OP, I worked in e-discovery when I first moved to DC (over a decade ago). I was pregnant at the time and wasn't getting hired elsewhere (surprise!), though I had 1-2 years prior experience in my field. E-discovery was easy and flexible and paid well given the language bump. However, the flexibility allowed me to simultaneously open a sole proprietorship that admittedly made peanuts initially. I kept e-discovery as a steady paycheck until the side gig started to gain traction. Though e-discovery I did meet folks, passed my name around in my niche area, and made 1 really good connection (of the dozens of feelers that I put out). I finally opted to quit e-discovery to be hired as a FREAKING asst/paralegal in my field of choice because the small firm needed someone virtual and was willing to train. I worked with them doing the grunt work but more importantly getting valuable experience and learning the ropes so that I would feel more comfortably going out on my own. That ended after about a year because as the gods would have it, my managing atty wanted to leave that field and do something new. She passed off one of her corp clients to me for my budding practice after we negotiated a reasonable fee between us. Since I'd simultaneously been working on my own business it was enough to get me moving. That was about 10 years ago and I now do well enough to support my solo practice. I don't make a ton by DCUM standards but I bring home between 300-350k. That is really all that I need, though I do hope to keep growing.

I share this because, honestly, if you humble yourself and start at zero you can build up. You also have to really want to make it work badly enough. I know that lots of people will say that it may not be financially feasible for all, and they are 100% correct. I do offer the story, however, because I did drudge it out in e-discovery for a few years and backtracked to a paralegal position. I cried about that for a year but it was a great classroom for me. This may be helpful to OP to push her to something new.

What kind of niche is this? 300k is awesome particularly for a solo practitioner.

I worked for a summer in college for an ambulance chaser that did several million in a great year and broke even in a bad year.

I have a friend who left corp to do personal injury. She said it was embarrassing but didn't care. She put up billboards on the highway and is now making ridiculous bank. Don't know that I could ever do that but man do those people make ridiculous money.

It's the having to represent the slip and falls or neck and back pain car crashes to pay the bills that's embarrassing. The MBA student paralyzed while working constriction part time or the young family killed by a drunk diver with assets come along once every few years (and yes it is awful and morbid to have to think like that)

That is true, but my understanding that those cases are few and far between. She said that the vast majority of their cases were "template" work so motions and pleadings drafting are sent overseas to Indian contract workers for cheap cut/paste from templates and then shipped back to US for paralegals to file. It's factory work where they make $$$. From what I gathered, the large PI offices work this way to minimize overhead.

It's all a pretty well oiled machine, and in most cases you never have to file anything in court. You send a form letter to the adjuster with the final medical bills and then hammer out a settlement over a 20 minute phone call

Man, maybe I'm in the wrong field after all. Feel like I'm doing too much work for too little. But at least I have a soul...

[Anonymous]

OP, what is prompting you to want to get out of doc review now after so many years? Is this because you hate it, or because you hate others perception of the fact that your entire legal career has been doc review? A friend’s DH is a staff attorney at a large firm, so essentially doc review and managing e discovery projects, and he loves it for the money and the work life balance he gets out of it. He makes more money than most government lawyers, earns overtime, and his life is not tied up in his work. She loves the fact that he is present for his family and is genuinely happy, as opposed to when he was an associate at a law firm years ago. I feel like there is more to this than just dissatisfaction/boredom with the work you are doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Options:

1. Start volunteering at legal aid pro bono to get some lawyering experience under supervision. They have training programs specific to the advice you will be giving. Here is a link to training if you are in DC: https://www.dcbar.org/pro-bono/resources-and-training

2. HR certification: Get an entry level job in HR, do it for one year and then start the process to become certified. Once you do that you can move up the ranks in HR and your law degree will be of value. https://www.shrm.org/certification/about/Pages/Not-Sure-Where-To-Begin.aspx

3. Start attending every and any training sessions available at your bar association. This is about training and networking.

4. Invest in your next step: get a masters degree in legal studies in a compliance area that interests you. Health care is an excellent and extremely marketable choice, and you can do it on line: https://www.online.drexel.edu/online-degrees/law-degrees/cert-hc-comp/index.aspx

Take control and take action. Also consider seeing your doctor for depression.

Good thoughts.

OP, I worked in e-discovery when I first moved to DC (over a decade ago). I was pregnant at the time and wasn't getting hired elsewhere (surprise!), though I had 1-2 years prior experience in my field. E-discovery was easy and flexible and paid well given the language bump. However, the flexibility allowed me to simultaneously open a sole proprietorship that admittedly made peanuts initially. I kept e-discovery as a steady paycheck until the side gig started to gain traction. Though e-discovery I did meet folks, passed my name around in my niche area, and made 1 really good connection (of the dozens of feelers that I put out). I finally opted to quit e-discovery to be hired as a FREAKING asst/paralegal in my field of choice because the small firm needed someone virtual and was willing to train. I worked with them doing the grunt work but more importantly getting valuable experience and learning the ropes so that I would feel more comfortably going out on my own. That ended after about a year because as the gods would have it, my managing atty wanted to leave that field and do something new. She passed off one of her corp clients to me for my budding practice after we negotiated a reasonable fee between us. Since I'd simultaneously been working on my own business it was enough to get me moving. That was about 10 years ago and I now do well enough to support my solo practice. I don't make a ton by DCUM standards but I bring home between 300-350k. That is really all that I need, though I do hope to keep growing.

I share this because, honestly, if you humble yourself and start at zero you can build up. You also have to really want to make it work badly enough. I know that lots of people will say that it may not be financially feasible for all, and they are 100% correct. I do offer the story, however, because I did drudge it out in e-discovery for a few years and backtracked to a paralegal position. I cried about that for a year but it was a great classroom for me. This may be helpful to OP to push her to something new.

I'm not trying to attack you, just making an observation. 300-350 K is a lot of money. For a solo, it is an enormous sum of money. You are to be congratulated because obviously you have a skillset that people will pay for. However, someone who says 300-350 "is all you really need" is living in a different world than the rest of us. I know it is DC and I know some people make far more, but its a delusional to downplay that kind of money. That's a significant sum of money and unless you're paying 80K a year for your kids to go to private school, you should be able to live a very full and robust life on a lot less than 350K a year.

[Anonymous]

E-discovery and document review are NOT the same thing. People who work in e-discovery tend to have strong technical expertise in addition to understanding how to apply those technical skills to collection, processing, review, production, and presentation of evidentiary materials. Good e-discovery professionals make at least $100K because it's a weird mix of skills and tends to require dealing with lawyers, being on call constantly, and changes all the time with changes to communication/digital data. Huge shift this year with collaboration, video conferencing tools, and text messaging for business as those materials aren't processed/reviewed in the same manner as email/native docs. E-discovery is starting to prefer JDs, so if you have any skills or technical expertise, it's an option - vendors are always looking, and once you do some time with a vendor, firms will be willing to look at you.

Document reviewers get billed out to clients at around $35-$60/hour, depending on complexity of review, language requirements, etc. I assume they get paid, at most, half of that, and only when they work. Frankly, most doc review really doesn't require a JD, but it makes the attorneys happy because they love credentials.

Someone who's been doing document review for a decade should have been promoted to review manager years ago. Review managers should have developed project management, client relations, people management, and light business analytics running progress reports/coding breakdowns/review quality reporting.

To get out of doc review, you need to get your depression treated (medication and therapy to start), make a list of skills you've developed and what you're good at, do some research on what careers align with those skills, and get a friend or career coach to help you write a resume and practice interview. Once you identify a few career options, start networking and attending professional event. I would not recommend pursuing further education, outside of maybe a certificate, until you figure out what you want to do and make sure the ROI makes sense for you.

Things my friends with JDs that don't practice do: legal publishing, e-discovery consultants, nonprofit work, FBI agent, Foreign Service, compliance/risk management, and law firm administration/management.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Options:

1. Start volunteering at legal aid pro bono to get some lawyering experience under supervision. They have training programs specific to the advice you will be giving. Here is a link to training if you are in DC: https://www.dcbar.org/pro-bono/resources-and-training

2. HR certification: Get an entry level job in HR, do it for one year and then start the process to become certified. Once you do that you can move up the ranks in HR and your law degree will be of value. https://www.shrm.org/certification/about/Pages/Not-Sure-Where-To-Begin.aspx

3. Start attending every and any training sessions available at your bar association. This is about training and networking.

4. Invest in your next step: get a masters degree in legal studies in a compliance area that interests you. Health care is an excellent and extremely marketable choice, and you can do it on line: https://www.online.drexel.edu/online-degrees/law-degrees/cert-hc-comp/index.aspx

Take control and take action. Also consider seeing your doctor for depression.

Good thoughts.

OP, I worked in e-discovery when I first moved to DC (over a decade ago). I was pregnant at the time and wasn't getting hired elsewhere (surprise!), though I had 1-2 years prior experience in my field. E-discovery was easy and flexible and paid well given the language bump. However, the flexibility allowed me to simultaneously open a sole proprietorship that admittedly made peanuts initially. I kept e-discovery as a steady paycheck until the side gig started to gain traction. Though e-discovery I did meet folks, passed my name around in my niche area, and made 1 really good connection (of the dozens of feelers that I put out). I finally opted to quit e-discovery to be hired as a FREAKING asst/paralegal in my field of choice because the small firm needed someone virtual and was willing to train. I worked with them doing the grunt work but more importantly getting valuable experience and learning the ropes so that I would feel more comfortably going out on my own. That ended after about a year because as the gods would have it, my managing atty wanted to leave that field and do something new. She passed off one of her corp clients to me for my budding practice after we negotiated a reasonable fee between us. Since I'd simultaneously been working on my own business it was enough to get me moving. That was about 10 years ago and I now do well enough to support my solo practice. I don't make a ton by DCUM standards but I bring home between 300-350k. That is really all that I need, though I do hope to keep growing.

I share this because, honestly, if you humble yourself and start at zero you can build up. You also have to really want to make it work badly enough. I know that lots of people will say that it may not be financially feasible for all, and they are 100% correct. I do offer the story, however, because I did drudge it out in e-discovery for a few years and backtracked to a paralegal position. I cried about that for a year but it was a great classroom for me. This may be helpful to OP to push her to something new.

I'm not trying to attack you, just making an observation. 300-350 K is a lot of money. For a solo, it is an enormous sum of money. You are to be congratulated because obviously you have a skillset that people will pay for. However, someone who says 300-350 "is all you really need" is living in a different world than the rest of us. I know it is DC and I know some people make far more, but its a delusional to downplay that kind of money. That's a significant sum of money and unless you're paying 80K a year for your kids to go to private school, you should be able to live a very full and robust life on a lot less than 350K a year.

I made that comment to deflect the biglaw attys who, in the past, have told me that amount is "unlivable" and less than their bonus (because I have heard that from people before). I know that there are many of that type in DC. Among lawyers, the pay scale is massively skewed, and I understand that. I mean, I used to work in doc review. I make the point above only to highlight to OP that there are other options if you're willing to work in the trenches for a bit. WE are attorneys. We can work for ourselves if all else fails. My first year as a solo, I made $15K. The following year was $35K. And year three was $55K. Every year after that increased slightly. I have now been solo for 10+ years so I wanted to highlight that this has been a gradual work in progress whereby I had to go hunt for business annually to get the business pipeline running.

And yes, I'm very happy with where I"m at now and do not discount that - particularly since I know what it's like to function with income of $15K. Point taken. But I always try to emphasize to attorneys that we absolutely can be self sufficient by nature of our trade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Options:

1. Start volunteering at legal aid pro bono to get some lawyering experience under supervision. They have training programs specific to the advice you will be giving. Here is a link to training if you are in DC: https://www.dcbar.org/pro-bono/resources-and-training

2. HR certification: Get an entry level job in HR, do it for one year and then start the process to become certified. Once you do that you can move up the ranks in HR and your law degree will be of value. https://www.shrm.org/certification/about/Pages/Not-Sure-Where-To-Begin.aspx

3. Start attending every and any training sessions available at your bar association. This is about training and networking.

4. Invest in your next step: get a masters degree in legal studies in a compliance area that interests you. Health care is an excellent and extremely marketable choice, and you can do it on line: https://www.online.drexel.edu/online-degrees/law-degrees/cert-hc-comp/index.aspx

Take control and take action. Also consider seeing your doctor for depression.

Good thoughts.

OP, I worked in e-discovery when I first moved to DC (over a decade ago). I was pregnant at the time and wasn't getting hired elsewhere (surprise!), though I had 1-2 years prior experience in my field. E-discovery was easy and flexible and paid well given the language bump. However, the flexibility allowed me to simultaneously open a sole proprietorship that admittedly made peanuts initially. I kept e-discovery as a steady paycheck until the side gig started to gain traction. Though e-discovery I did meet folks, passed my name around in my niche area, and made 1 really good connection (of the dozens of feelers that I put out). I finally opted to quit e-discovery to be hired as a FREAKING asst/paralegal in my field of choice because the small firm needed someone virtual and was willing to train. I worked with them doing the grunt work but more importantly getting valuable experience and learning the ropes so that I would feel more comfortably going out on my own. That ended after about a year because as the gods would have it, my managing atty wanted to leave that field and do something new. She passed off one of her corp clients to me for my budding practice after we negotiated a reasonable fee between us. Since I'd simultaneously been working on my own business it was enough to get me moving. That was about 10 years ago and I now do well enough to support my solo practice. I don't make a ton by DCUM standards but I bring home between 300-350k. That is really all that I need, though I do hope to keep growing.

I share this because, honestly, if you humble yourself and start at zero you can build up. You also have to really want to make it work badly enough. I know that lots of people will say that it may not be financially feasible for all, and they are 100% correct. I do offer the story, however, because I did drudge it out in e-discovery for a few years and backtracked to a paralegal position. I cried about that for a year but it was a great classroom for me. This may be helpful to OP to push her to something new.

I'm not trying to attack you, just making an observation. 300-350 K is a lot of money. For a solo, it is an enormous sum of money. You are to be congratulated because obviously you have a skillset that people will pay for. However, someone who says 300-350 "is all you really need" is living in a different world than the rest of us. I know it is DC and I know some people make far more, but its a delusional to downplay that kind of money. That's a significant sum of money and unless you're paying 80K a year for your kids to go to private school, you should be able to live a very full and robust life on a lot less than 350K a year.

I made that comment to deflect the biglaw attys who, in the past, have told me that amount is "unlivable" and less than their bonus (because I have heard that from people before). I know that there are many of that type in DC. Among lawyers, the pay scale is massively skewed, and I understand that. I mean, I used to work in doc review. I make the point above only to highlight to OP that there are other options if you're willing to work in the trenches for a bit. WE are attorneys. We can work for ourselves if all else fails. My first year as a solo, I made $15K. The following year was $35K. And year three was $55K. Every year after that increased slightly. I have now been solo for 10+ years so I wanted to highlight that this has been a gradual work in progress whereby I had to go hunt for business annually to get the business pipeline running.

And yes, I'm very happy with where I"m at now and do not discount that - particularly since I know what it's like to function with income of $15K. Point taken. But I always try to emphasize to attorneys that we absolutely can be self sufficient by nature of our trade.

how can a single person live on 15k a year? That’s onky possibly if you have someone supporting you. Not everyone has that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Options:

1. Start volunteering at legal aid pro bono to get some lawyering experience under supervision. They have training programs specific to the advice you will be giving. Here is a link to training if you are in DC: https://www.dcbar.org/pro-bono/resources-and-training

2. HR certification: Get an entry level job in HR, do it for one year and then start the process to become certified. Once you do that you can move up the ranks in HR and your law degree will be of value. https://www.shrm.org/certification/about/Pages/Not-Sure-Where-To-Begin.aspx

3. Start attending every and any training sessions available at your bar association. This is about training and networking.

4. Invest in your next step: get a masters degree in legal studies in a compliance area that interests you. Health care is an excellent and extremely marketable choice, and you can do it on line: https://www.online.drexel.edu/online-degrees/law-degrees/cert-hc-comp/index.aspx

Take control and take action. Also consider seeing your doctor for depression.

Good thoughts.

OP, I worked in e-discovery when I first moved to DC (over a decade ago). I was pregnant at the time and wasn't getting hired elsewhere (surprise!), though I had 1-2 years prior experience in my field. E-discovery was easy and flexible and paid well given the language bump. However, the flexibility allowed me to simultaneously open a sole proprietorship that admittedly made peanuts initially. I kept e-discovery as a steady paycheck until the side gig started to gain traction. Though e-discovery I did meet folks, passed my name around in my niche area, and made 1 really good connection (of the dozens of feelers that I put out). I finally opted to quit e-discovery to be hired as a FREAKING asst/paralegal in my field of choice because the small firm needed someone virtual and was willing to train. I worked with them doing the grunt work but more importantly getting valuable experience and learning the ropes so that I would feel more comfortably going out on my own. That ended after about a year because as the gods would have it, my managing atty wanted to leave that field and do something new. She passed off one of her corp clients to me for my budding practice after we negotiated a reasonable fee between us. Since I'd simultaneously been working on my own business it was enough to get me moving. That was about 10 years ago and I now do well enough to support my solo practice. I don't make a ton by DCUM standards but I bring home between 300-350k. That is really all that I need, though I do hope to keep growing.

I share this because, honestly, if you humble yourself and start at zero you can build up. You also have to really want to make it work badly enough. I know that lots of people will say that it may not be financially feasible for all, and they are 100% correct. I do offer the story, however, because I did drudge it out in e-discovery for a few years and backtracked to a paralegal position. I cried about that for a year but it was a great classroom for me. This may be helpful to OP to push her to something new.

I'm not trying to attack you, just making an observation. 300-350 K is a lot of money. For a solo, it is an enormous sum of money. You are to be congratulated because obviously you have a skillset that people will pay for. However, someone who says 300-350 "is all you really need" is living in a different world than the rest of us. I know it is DC and I know some people make far more, but its a delusional to downplay that kind of money. That's a significant sum of money and unless you're paying 80K a year for your kids to go to private school, you should be able to live a very full and robust life on a lot less than 350K a year.

I made that comment to deflect the biglaw attys who, in the past, have told me that amount is "unlivable" and less than their bonus (because I have heard that from people before). I know that there are many of that type in DC. Among lawyers, the pay scale is massively skewed, and I understand that. I mean, I used to work in doc review. I make the point above only to highlight to OP that there are other options if you're willing to work in the trenches for a bit. WE are attorneys. We can work for ourselves if all else fails. My first year as a solo, I made $15K. The following year was $35K. And year three was $55K. Every year after that increased slightly. I have now been solo for 10+ years so I wanted to highlight that this has been a gradual work in progress whereby I had to go hunt for business annually to get the business pipeline running.

And yes, I'm very happy with where I"m at now and do not discount that - particularly since I know what it's like to function with income of $15K. Point taken. But I always try to emphasize to attorneys that we absolutely can be self sufficient by nature of our trade.

how can a single person live on 15k a year? That’s onky possibly if you have someone supporting you. Not everyone has that

If you read the original post, I stated that I had to supplement with doc review projects for additional income while I worked up the business. So the doc review had to be the steady pay check while I concurrently opened up a business because I could not have supported myself otherwise. But yes, I was married at the time. But no, he was not a high earner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Options:

1. Start volunteering at legal aid pro bono to get some lawyering experience under supervision. They have training programs specific to the advice you will be giving. Here is a link to training if you are in DC: https://www.dcbar.org/pro-bono/resources-and-training

2. HR certification: Get an entry level job in HR, do it for one year and then start the process to become certified. Once you do that you can move up the ranks in HR and your law degree will be of value. https://www.shrm.org/certification/about/Pages/Not-Sure-Where-To-Begin.aspx

3. Start attending every and any training sessions available at your bar association. This is about training and networking.

4. Invest in your next step: get a masters degree in legal studies in a compliance area that interests you. Health care is an excellent and extremely marketable choice, and you can do it on line: https://www.online.drexel.edu/online-degrees/law-degrees/cert-hc-comp/index.aspx

Take control and take action. Also consider seeing your doctor for depression.

Good thoughts.

OP, I worked in e-discovery when I first moved to DC (over a decade ago). I was pregnant at the time and wasn't getting hired elsewhere (surprise!), though I had 1-2 years prior experience in my field. E-discovery was easy and flexible and paid well given the language bump. However, the flexibility allowed me to simultaneously open a sole proprietorship that admittedly made peanuts initially. I kept e-discovery as a steady paycheck until the side gig started to gain traction. Though e-discovery I did meet folks, passed my name around in my niche area, and made 1 really good connection (of the dozens of feelers that I put out). I finally opted to quit e-discovery to be hired as a FREAKING asst/paralegal in my field of choice because the small firm needed someone virtual and was willing to train. I worked with them doing the grunt work but more importantly getting valuable experience and learning the ropes so that I would feel more comfortably going out on my own. That ended after about a year because as the gods would have it, my managing atty wanted to leave that field and do something new. She passed off one of her corp clients to me for my budding practice after we negotiated a reasonable fee between us. Since I'd simultaneously been working on my own business it was enough to get me moving. That was about 10 years ago and I now do well enough to support my solo practice. I don't make a ton by DCUM standards but I bring home between 300-350k. That is really all that I need, though I do hope to keep growing.

I share this because, honestly, if you humble yourself and start at zero you can build up. You also have to really want to make it work badly enough. I know that lots of people will say that it may not be financially feasible for all, and they are 100% correct. I do offer the story, however, because I did drudge it out in e-discovery for a few years and backtracked to a paralegal position. I cried about that for a year but it was a great classroom for me. This may be helpful to OP to push her to something new.

I'm not trying to attack you, just making an observation. 300-350 K is a lot of money. For a solo, it is an enormous sum of money. You are to be congratulated because obviously you have a skillset that people will pay for. However, someone who says 300-350 "is all you really need" is living in a different world than the rest of us. I know it is DC and I know some people make far more, but its a delusional to downplay that kind of money. That's a significant sum of money and unless you're paying 80K a year for your kids to go to private school, you should be able to live a very full and robust life on a lot less than 350K a year.

I made that comment to deflect the biglaw attys who, in the past, have told me that amount is "unlivable" and less than their bonus (because I have heard that from people before). I know that there are many of that type in DC. Among lawyers, the pay scale is massively skewed, and I understand that. I mean, I used to work in doc review. I make the point above only to highlight to OP that there are other options if you're willing to work in the trenches for a bit. WE are attorneys. We can work for ourselves if all else fails. My first year as a solo, I made $15K. The following year was $35K. And year three was $55K. Every year after that increased slightly. I have now been solo for 10+ years so I wanted to highlight that this has been a gradual work in progress whereby I had to go hunt for business annually to get the business pipeline running.

And yes, I'm very happy with where I"m at now and do not discount that - particularly since I know what it's like to function with income of $15K. Point taken. But I always try to emphasize to attorneys that we absolutely can be self sufficient by nature of our trade.

how can a single person live on 15k a year? That’s onky possibly if you have someone supporting you. Not everyone has that

If you read the original post, I stated that I had to supplement with doc review projects for additional income while I worked up the business. So the doc review had to be the steady pay check while I concurrently opened up a business because I could not have supported myself otherwise. But yes, I was married at the time. But no, he was not a high earner.

doc review gigs forbid you from doing any other work. So you must have done this outside of business hours but even that violates their rules. I guess they don’t enforce it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Options:

1. Start volunteering at legal aid pro bono to get some lawyering experience under supervision. They have training programs specific to the advice you will be giving. Here is a link to training if you are in DC: https://www.dcbar.org/pro-bono/resources-and-training

2. HR certification: Get an entry level job in HR, do it for one year and then start the process to become certified. Once you do that you can move up the ranks in HR and your law degree will be of value. https://www.shrm.org/certification/about/Pages/Not-Sure-Where-To-Begin.aspx

3. Start attending every and any training sessions available at your bar association. This is about training and networking.

4. Invest in your next step: get a masters degree in legal studies in a compliance area that interests you. Health care is an excellent and extremely marketable choice, and you can do it on line: https://www.online.drexel.edu/online-degrees/law-degrees/cert-hc-comp/index.aspx

Take control and take action. Also consider seeing your doctor for depression.

Good thoughts.

OP, I worked in e-discovery when I first moved to DC (over a decade ago). I was pregnant at the time and wasn't getting hired elsewhere (surprise!), though I had 1-2 years prior experience in my field. E-discovery was easy and flexible and paid well given the language bump. However, the flexibility allowed me to simultaneously open a sole proprietorship that admittedly made peanuts initially. I kept e-discovery as a steady paycheck until the side gig started to gain traction. Though e-discovery I did meet folks, passed my name around in my niche area, and made 1 really good connection (of the dozens of feelers that I put out). I finally opted to quit e-discovery to be hired as a FREAKING asst/paralegal in my field of choice because the small firm needed someone virtual and was willing to train. I worked with them doing the grunt work but more importantly getting valuable experience and learning the ropes so that I would feel more comfortably going out on my own. That ended after about a year because as the gods would have it, my managing atty wanted to leave that field and do something new. She passed off one of her corp clients to me for my budding practice after we negotiated a reasonable fee between us. Since I'd simultaneously been working on my own business it was enough to get me moving. That was about 10 years ago and I now do well enough to support my solo practice. I don't make a ton by DCUM standards but I bring home between 300-350k. That is really all that I need, though I do hope to keep growing.

I share this because, honestly, if you humble yourself and start at zero you can build up. You also have to really want to make it work badly enough. I know that lots of people will say that it may not be financially feasible for all, and they are 100% correct. I do offer the story, however, because I did drudge it out in e-discovery for a few years and backtracked to a paralegal position. I cried about that for a year but it was a great classroom for me. This may be helpful to OP to push her to something new.

I'm not trying to attack you, just making an observation. 300-350 K is a lot of money. For a solo, it is an enormous sum of money. You are to be congratulated because obviously you have a skillset that people will pay for. However, someone who says 300-350 "is all you really need" is living in a different world than the rest of us. I know it is DC and I know some people make far more, but its a delusional to downplay that kind of money. That's a significant sum of money and unless you're paying 80K a year for your kids to go to private school, you should be able to live a very full and robust life on a lot less than 350K a year.

I made that comment to deflect the biglaw attys who, in the past, have told me that amount is "unlivable" and less than their bonus (because I have heard that from people before). I know that there are many of that type in DC. Among lawyers, the pay scale is massively skewed, and I understand that. I mean, I used to work in doc review. I make the point above only to highlight to OP that there are other options if you're willing to work in the trenches for a bit. WE are attorneys. We can work for ourselves if all else fails. My first year as a solo, I made $15K. The following year was $35K. And year three was $55K. Every year after that increased slightly. I have now been solo for 10+ years so I wanted to highlight that this has been a gradual work in progress whereby I had to go hunt for business annually to get the business pipeline running.

And yes, I'm very happy with where I"m at now and do not discount that - particularly since I know what it's like to function with income of $15K. Point taken. But I always try to emphasize to attorneys that we absolutely can be self sufficient by nature of our trade.

how can a single person live on 15k a year? That’s onky possibly if you have someone supporting you. Not everyone has that

If you read the original post, I stated that I had to supplement with doc review projects for additional income while I worked up the business. So the doc review had to be the steady pay check while I concurrently opened up a business because I could not have supported myself otherwise. But yes, I was married at the time. But no, he was not a high earner.

doc review gigs forbid you from doing any other work. So you must have done this outside of business hours but even that violates their rules. I guess they don’t enforce it

I never had any regs presented to me about solo work. Again, this was 10 years ago so things may have changed but there were a good handful of solo attorneys on project so it was not uncommon. No, I did not do work concurrently for another position during doc review. I would answer work emails after or before. Plus, doc review gigs that I had would sometimes last 1 week or 2 weeks. I'd have gaps in between. And then I'd sign up for another project when I had the time and needed the work. Doc review is very flexible. You can be creative with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Options:

1. Start volunteering at legal aid pro bono to get some lawyering experience under supervision. They have training programs specific to the advice you will be giving. Here is a link to training if you are in DC: https://www.dcbar.org/pro-bono/resources-and-training

2. HR certification: Get an entry level job in HR, do it for one year and then start the process to become certified. Once you do that you can move up the ranks in HR and your law degree will be of value. https://www.shrm.org/certification/about/Pages/Not-Sure-Where-To-Begin.aspx

3. Start attending every and any training sessions available at your bar association. This is about training and networking.

4. Invest in your next step: get a masters degree in legal studies in a compliance area that interests you. Health care is an excellent and extremely marketable choice, and you can do it on line: https://www.online.drexel.edu/online-degrees/law-degrees/cert-hc-comp/index.aspx

Take control and take action. Also consider seeing your doctor for depression.

Good thoughts.

OP, I worked in e-discovery when I first moved to DC (over a decade ago). I was pregnant at the time and wasn't getting hired elsewhere (surprise!), though I had 1-2 years prior experience in my field. E-discovery was easy and flexible and paid well given the language bump. However, the flexibility allowed me to simultaneously open a sole proprietorship that admittedly made peanuts initially. I kept e-discovery as a steady paycheck until the side gig started to gain traction. Though e-discovery I did meet folks, passed my name around in my niche area, and made 1 really good connection (of the dozens of feelers that I put out). I finally opted to quit e-discovery to be hired as a FREAKING asst/paralegal in my field of choice because the small firm needed someone virtual and was willing to train. I worked with them doing the grunt work but more importantly getting valuable experience and learning the ropes so that I would feel more comfortably going out on my own. That ended after about a year because as the gods would have it, my managing atty wanted to leave that field and do something new. She passed off one of her corp clients to me for my budding practice after we negotiated a reasonable fee between us. Since I'd simultaneously been working on my own business it was enough to get me moving. That was about 10 years ago and I now do well enough to support my solo practice. I don't make a ton by DCUM standards but I bring home between 300-350k. That is really all that I need, though I do hope to keep growing.

I share this because, honestly, if you humble yourself and start at zero you can build up. You also have to really want to make it work badly enough. I know that lots of people will say that it may not be financially feasible for all, and they are 100% correct. I do offer the story, however, because I did drudge it out in e-discovery for a few years and backtracked to a paralegal position. I cried about that for a year but it was a great classroom for me. This may be helpful to OP to push her to something new.

I'm not trying to attack you, just making an observation. 300-350 K is a lot of money. For a solo, it is an enormous sum of money. You are to be congratulated because obviously you have a skillset that people will pay for. However, someone who says 300-350 "is all you really need" is living in a different world than the rest of us. I know it is DC and I know some people make far more, but its a delusional to downplay that kind of money. That's a significant sum of money and unless you're paying 80K a year for your kids to go to private school, you should be able to live a very full and robust life on a lot less than 350K a year.

I made that comment to deflect the biglaw attys who, in the past, have told me that amount is "unlivable" and less than their bonus (because I have heard that from people before). I know that there are many of that type in DC. Among lawyers, the pay scale is massively skewed, and I understand that. I mean, I used to work in doc review. I make the point above only to highlight to OP that there are other options if you're willing to work in the trenches for a bit. WE are attorneys. We can work for ourselves if all else fails. My first year as a solo, I made $15K. The following year was $35K. And year three was $55K. Every year after that increased slightly. I have now been solo for 10+ years so I wanted to highlight that this has been a gradual work in progress whereby I had to go hunt for business annually to get the business pipeline running.

And yes, I'm very happy with where I"m at now and do not discount that - particularly since I know what it's like to function with income of $15K. Point taken. But I always try to emphasize to attorneys that we absolutely can be self sufficient by nature of our trade.

how can a single person live on 15k a year? That’s onky possibly if you have someone supporting you. Not everyone has that

If you read the original post, I stated that I had to supplement with doc review projects for additional income while I worked up the business. So the doc review had to be the steady pay check while I concurrently opened up a business because I could not have supported myself otherwise. But yes, I was married at the time. But no, he was not a high earner.

doc review gigs forbid you from doing any other work. So you must have done this outside of business hours but even that violates their rules. I guess they don’t enforce it

I never had any regs presented to me about solo work. Again, this was 10 years ago so things may have changed but there were a good handful of solo attorneys on project so it was not uncommon. No, I did not do work concurrently for another position during doc review. I would answer work emails after or before. Plus, doc review gigs that I had would sometimes last 1 week or 2 weeks. I'd have gaps in between. And then I'd sign up for another project when I had the time and needed the work. Doc review is very flexible. You can be creative with it.

you can tell who does the concurrent work during doc review, they step out for many phone calls. Wear suits to doc review jobs.

I honestly never thought going to law school would result in near poverty. But my friends who didn’t eveh graduate college own homes, have been cars, etc. I barely manage to get by because I have so much debt and an severely underemployed and the experience destroyed what little confidence I had.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Options:

1. Start volunteering at legal aid pro bono to get some lawyering experience under supervision. They have training programs specific to the advice you will be giving. Here is a link to training if you are in DC: https://www.dcbar.org/pro-bono/resources-and-training

2. HR certification: Get an entry level job in HR, do it for one year and then start the process to become certified. Once you do that you can move up the ranks in HR and your law degree will be of value. https://www.shrm.org/certification/about/Pages/Not-Sure-Where-To-Begin.aspx

3. Start attending every and any training sessions available at your bar association. This is about training and networking.

4. Invest in your next step: get a masters degree in legal studies in a compliance area that interests you. Health care is an excellent and extremely marketable choice, and you can do it on line: https://www.online.drexel.edu/online-degrees/law-degrees/cert-hc-comp/index.aspx

Take control and take action. Also consider seeing your doctor for depression.

Good thoughts.

OP, I worked in e-discovery when I first moved to DC (over a decade ago). I was pregnant at the time and wasn't getting hired elsewhere (surprise!), though I had 1-2 years prior experience in my field. E-discovery was easy and flexible and paid well given the language bump. However, the flexibility allowed me to simultaneously open a sole proprietorship that admittedly made peanuts initially. I kept e-discovery as a steady paycheck until the side gig started to gain traction. Though e-discovery I did meet folks, passed my name around in my niche area, and made 1 really good connection (of the dozens of feelers that I put out). I finally opted to quit e-discovery to be hired as a FREAKING asst/paralegal in my field of choice because the small firm needed someone virtual and was willing to train. I worked with them doing the grunt work but more importantly getting valuable experience and learning the ropes so that I would feel more comfortably going out on my own. That ended after about a year because as the gods would have it, my managing atty wanted to leave that field and do something new. She passed off one of her corp clients to me for my budding practice after we negotiated a reasonable fee between us. Since I'd simultaneously been working on my own business it was enough to get me moving. That was about 10 years ago and I now do well enough to support my solo practice. I don't make a ton by DCUM standards but I bring home between 300-350k. That is really all that I need, though I do hope to keep growing.

I share this because, honestly, if you humble yourself and start at zero you can build up. You also have to really want to make it work badly enough. I know that lots of people will say that it may not be financially feasible for all, and they are 100% correct. I do offer the story, however, because I did drudge it out in e-discovery for a few years and backtracked to a paralegal position. I cried about that for a year but it was a great classroom for me. This may be helpful to OP to push her to something new.

I'm not trying to attack you, just making an observation. 300-350 K is a lot of money. For a solo, it is an enormous sum of money. You are to be congratulated because obviously you have a skillset that people will pay for. However, someone who says 300-350 "is all you really need" is living in a different world than the rest of us. I know it is DC and I know some people make far more, but its a delusional to downplay that kind of money. That's a significant sum of money and unless you're paying 80K a year for your kids to go to private school, you should be able to live a very full and robust life on a lot less than 350K a year.

I made that comment to deflect the biglaw attys who, in the past, have told me that amount is "unlivable" and less than their bonus (because I have heard that from people before). I know that there are many of that type in DC. Among lawyers, the pay scale is massively skewed, and I understand that. I mean, I used to work in doc review. I make the point above only to highlight to OP that there are other options if you're willing to work in the trenches for a bit. WE are attorneys. We can work for ourselves if all else fails. My first year as a solo, I made $15K. The following year was $35K. And year three was $55K. Every year after that increased slightly. I have now been solo for 10+ years so I wanted to highlight that this has been a gradual work in progress whereby I had to go hunt for business annually to get the business pipeline running.

And yes, I'm very happy with where I"m at now and do not discount that - particularly since I know what it's like to function with income of $15K. Point taken. But I always try to emphasize to attorneys that we absolutely can be self sufficient by nature of our trade.

how can a single person live on 15k a year? That’s onky possibly if you have someone supporting you. Not everyone has that

If you read the original post, I stated that I had to supplement with doc review projects for additional income while I worked up the business. So the doc review had to be the steady pay check while I concurrently opened up a business because I could not have supported myself otherwise. But yes, I was married at the time. But no, he was not a high earner.

doc review gigs forbid you from doing any other work. So you must have done this outside of business hours but even that violates their rules. I guess they don’t enforce it

I never had any regs presented to me about solo work. Again, this was 10 years ago so things may have changed but there were a good handful of solo attorneys on project so it was not uncommon. No, I did not do work concurrently for another position during doc review. I would answer work emails after or before. Plus, doc review gigs that I had would sometimes last 1 week or 2 weeks. I'd have gaps in between. And then I'd sign up for another project when I had the time and needed the work. Doc review is very flexible. You can be creative with it.

you can tell who does the concurrent work during doc review, they step out for many phone calls. Wear suits to doc review jobs.

I honestly never thought going to law school would result in near poverty. But my friends who didn’t eveh graduate college own homes, have been cars, etc. I barely manage to get by because I have so much debt and an severely underemployed and the experience destroyed what little confidence I had.

My only advise to you is maybe to ask the folks who step out how they do it and the best way to get started. If you're not able to find a position that gives you experience for your resume, start a LLC and create it yourself. If the solo work is not sustainable long term at least you will have added a boost to your resume that may give you some marketable skills down the road. I am well aware of all the reasons that "we can't do something" but my post was to tell OP how she could do something. The mindset can make all the difference.

Yes, law school loans suck and I felt that for a very long time. Pick yourself up and talk to the folks in the room if you can about what they're doing to see if they can give you any helpful info. Hopefully, you'll find a line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Options:

1. Start volunteering at legal aid pro bono to get some lawyering experience under supervision. They have training programs specific to the advice you will be giving. Here is a link to training if you are in DC: https://www.dcbar.org/pro-bono/resources-and-training

2. HR certification: Get an entry level job in HR, do it for one year and then start the process to become certified. Once you do that you can move up the ranks in HR and your law degree will be of value. https://www.shrm.org/certification/about/Pages/Not-Sure-Where-To-Begin.aspx

3. Start attending every and any training sessions available at your bar association. This is about training and networking.

4. Invest in your next step: get a masters degree in legal studies in a compliance area that interests you. Health care is an excellent and extremely marketable choice, and you can do it on line: https://www.online.drexel.edu/online-degrees/law-degrees/cert-hc-comp/index.aspx

Take control and take action. Also consider seeing your doctor for depression.

Good thoughts.

OP, I worked in e-discovery when I first moved to DC (over a decade ago). I was pregnant at the time and wasn't getting hired elsewhere (surprise!), though I had 1-2 years prior experience in my field. E-discovery was easy and flexible and paid well given the language bump. However, the flexibility allowed me to simultaneously open a sole proprietorship that admittedly made peanuts initially. I kept e-discovery as a steady paycheck until the side gig started to gain traction. Though e-discovery I did meet folks, passed my name around in my niche area, and made 1 really good connection (of the dozens of feelers that I put out). I finally opted to quit e-discovery to be hired as a FREAKING asst/paralegal in my field of choice because the small firm needed someone virtual and was willing to train. I worked with them doing the grunt work but more importantly getting valuable experience and learning the ropes so that I would feel more comfortably going out on my own. That ended after about a year because as the gods would have it, my managing atty wanted to leave that field and do something new. She passed off one of her corp clients to me for my budding practice after we negotiated a reasonable fee between us. Since I'd simultaneously been working on my own business it was enough to get me moving. That was about 10 years ago and I now do well enough to support my solo practice. I don't make a ton by DCUM standards but I bring home between 300-350k. That is really all that I need, though I do hope to keep growing.

I share this because, honestly, if you humble yourself and start at zero you can build up. You also have to really want to make it work badly enough. I know that lots of people will say that it may not be financially feasible for all, and they are 100% correct. I do offer the story, however, because I did drudge it out in e-discovery for a few years and backtracked to a paralegal position. I cried about that for a year but it was a great classroom for me. This may be helpful to OP to push her to something new.

I'm not trying to attack you, just making an observation. 300-350 K is a lot of money. For a solo, it is an enormous sum of money. You are to be congratulated because obviously you have a skillset that people will pay for. However, someone who says 300-350 "is all you really need" is living in a different world than the rest of us. I know it is DC and I know some people make far more, but its a delusional to downplay that kind of money. That's a significant sum of money and unless you're paying 80K a year for your kids to go to private school, you should be able to live a very full and robust life on a lot less than 350K a year.

I made that comment to deflect the biglaw attys who, in the past, have told me that amount is "unlivable" and less than their bonus (because I have heard that from people before). I know that there are many of that type in DC. Among lawyers, the pay scale is massively skewed, and I understand that. I mean, I used to work in doc review. I make the point above only to highlight to OP that there are other options if you're willing to work in the trenches for a bit. WE are attorneys. We can work for ourselves if all else fails. My first year as a solo, I made $15K. The following year was $35K. And year three was $55K. Every year after that increased slightly. I have now been solo for 10+ years so I wanted to highlight that this has been a gradual work in progress whereby I had to go hunt for business annually to get the business pipeline running.

And yes, I'm very happy with where I"m at now and do not discount that - particularly since I know what it's like to function with income of $15K. Point taken. But I always try to emphasize to attorneys that we absolutely can be self sufficient by nature of our trade.

how can a single person live on 15k a year? That’s onky possibly if you have someone supporting you. Not everyone has that

If you read the original post, I stated that I had to supplement with doc review projects for additional income while I worked up the business. So the doc review had to be the steady pay check while I concurrently opened up a business because I could not have supported myself otherwise. But yes, I was married at the time. But no, he was not a high earner.

doc review gigs forbid you from doing any other work. So you must have done this outside of business hours but even that violates their rules. I guess they don’t enforce it

I never had any regs presented to me about solo work. Again, this was 10 years ago so things may have changed but there were a good handful of solo attorneys on project so it was not uncommon. No, I did not do work concurrently for another position during doc review. I would answer work emails after or before. Plus, doc review gigs that I had would sometimes last 1 week or 2 weeks. I'd have gaps in between. And then I'd sign up for another project when I had the time and needed the work. Doc review is very flexible. You can be creative with it.

you can tell who does the concurrent work during doc review, they step out for many phone calls. Wear suits to doc review jobs.

I honestly never thought going to law school would result in near poverty. But my friends who didn’t eveh graduate college own homes, have been cars, etc. I barely manage to get by because I have so much debt and an severely underemployed and the experience destroyed what little confidence I had.

Change jobs. You don't have to be a lawyer.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Options:

1. Start volunteering at legal aid pro bono to get some lawyering experience under supervision. They have training programs specific to the advice you will be giving. Here is a link to training if you are in DC: https://www.dcbar.org/pro-bono/resources-and-training

2. HR certification: Get an entry level job in HR, do it for one year and then start the process to become certified. Once you do that you can move up the ranks in HR and your law degree will be of value. https://www.shrm.org/certification/about/Pages/Not-Sure-Where-To-Begin.aspx

3. Start attending every and any training sessions available at your bar association. This is about training and networking.

4. Invest in your next step: get a masters degree in legal studies in a compliance area that interests you. Health care is an excellent and extremely marketable choice, and you can do it on line: https://www.online.drexel.edu/online-degrees/law-degrees/cert-hc-comp/index.aspx

Take control and take action. Also consider seeing your doctor for depression.

Good thoughts.

OP, I worked in e-discovery when I first moved to DC (over a decade ago). I was pregnant at the time and wasn't getting hired elsewhere (surprise!), though I had 1-2 years prior experience in my field. E-discovery was easy and flexible and paid well given the language bump. However, the flexibility allowed me to simultaneously open a sole proprietorship that admittedly made peanuts initially. I kept e-discovery as a steady paycheck until the side gig started to gain traction. Though e-discovery I did meet folks, passed my name around in my niche area, and made 1 really good connection (of the dozens of feelers that I put out). I finally opted to quit e-discovery to be hired as a FREAKING asst/paralegal in my field of choice because the small firm needed someone virtual and was willing to train. I worked with them doing the grunt work but more importantly getting valuable experience and learning the ropes so that I would feel more comfortably going out on my own. That ended after about a year because as the gods would have it, my managing atty wanted to leave that field and do something new. She passed off one of her corp clients to me for my budding practice after we negotiated a reasonable fee between us. Since I'd simultaneously been working on my own business it was enough to get me moving. That was about 10 years ago and I now do well enough to support my solo practice. I don't make a ton by DCUM standards but I bring home between 300-350k. That is really all that I need, though I do hope to keep growing.

I share this because, honestly, if you humble yourself and start at zero you can build up. You also have to really want to make it work badly enough. I know that lots of people will say that it may not be financially feasible for all, and they are 100% correct. I do offer the story, however, because I did drudge it out in e-discovery for a few years and backtracked to a paralegal position. I cried about that for a year but it was a great classroom for me. This may be helpful to OP to push her to something new.

I'm not trying to attack you, just making an observation. 300-350 K is a lot of money. For a solo, it is an enormous sum of money. You are to be congratulated because obviously you have a skillset that people will pay for. However, someone who says 300-350 "is all you really need" is living in a different world than the rest of us. I know it is DC and I know some people make far more, but its a delusional to downplay that kind of money. That's a significant sum of money and unless you're paying 80K a year for your kids to go to private school, you should be able to live a very full and robust life on a lot less than 350K a year.

I made that comment to deflect the biglaw attys who, in the past, have told me that amount is "unlivable" and less than their bonus (because I have heard that from people before). I know that there are many of that type in DC. Among lawyers, the pay scale is massively skewed, and I understand that. I mean, I used to work in doc review. I make the point above only to highlight to OP that there are other options if you're willing to work in the trenches for a bit. WE are attorneys. We can work for ourselves if all else fails. My first year as a solo, I made $15K. The following year was $35K. And year three was $55K. Every year after that increased slightly. I have now been solo for 10+ years so I wanted to highlight that this has been a gradual work in progress whereby I had to go hunt for business annually to get the business pipeline running.

And yes, I'm very happy with where I"m at now and do not discount that - particularly since I know what it's like to function with income of $15K. Point taken. But I always try to emphasize to attorneys that we absolutely can be self sufficient by nature of our trade.

how can a single person live on 15k a year? That’s onky possibly if you have someone supporting you. Not everyone has that

If you read the original post, I stated that I had to supplement with doc review projects for additional income while I worked up the business. So the doc review had to be the steady pay check while I concurrently opened up a business because I could not have supported myself otherwise. But yes, I was married at the time. But no, he was not a high earner.

doc review gigs forbid you from doing any other work. So you must have done this outside of business hours but even that violates their rules. I guess they don’t enforce it

F that