New Jay Matthew's op ed on TJ

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

is desegregation a bad thing now?

The previous admissions criteria were race neutral.

the outcome wasn't. Most segregation post 60s is race neutral on it's face- that's how it's allowed to persist for as long as it does

The outcome was race neutral. You just don't like the outcome.

DP. And the new standard is race neutral and now you don't like the potential outcome. Oh well.

Let's let the court decide if its race neutral. "Experience factors" are not race neutral.

If it is truly based on “experience”, shouldn’t the higher points be given to Asian kids whose parents came to the US recently, have to work hard to provide for the family and who don’t speak English at home? Why would a child whose parents and grandparents were born in the US, spoke perfect English, didn’t have to apply for a US visa, green card, employment authorization, etc. be given any “experience” points?

Experience factors aren’t based on race at all. ELL students do get experience factor points, so if the student in your scenario is an ELL student, they would benefit. Currently, Asian students with low SES or who are ELL are being left out. The new admissions process would help them.

My child is a TJ student, and all of the Asian TJ parents I’ve ever met spoke with an accent.

Okay, and? My parents were immigrants and I was never in ESL. Just because somebody’s parents speak with an accent doesn’t mean the child is an English language learner.

We are immigrants, and our kids were never in ESL. However, we always speak our native language at home, so it was more difficult for our kids to learn and master English. We had no support system here (no extended family, no connections, no financial help from anyone) and not even green cards (have to renew US visas and driver’s licenses every year). Had no idea why AAP is so important until both kids were in the pool based on the test results and got rejected. So I think that our kids and others like them deserve the experience points much more than a child from a family who has lived in the US for centuries and has plenty of local relatives and friends for support.

So, you who weren't born here think your kids are much more derserving of the benefits of a good education than kids of people who have been in the US for centuries? The entitlement! I say this as someone born in another country, who speaks with an accent. I didn't know about AAP until my oldest was in pool either, and I have no family close by. But, my kids certainly had more advantages than many URM kids whose families have been here for generations. Also, if you are here on a work visa that had to be renewed, you are likely gainfully employed with a decent income. No, having your parents renew their visa annually isn't more derserving than, for example, living in poverty. This TJ tunnel vision makes people say some crazy things. Get a grip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

is desegregation a bad thing now?

The previous admissions criteria were race neutral.

the outcome wasn't. Most segregation post 60s is race neutral on it's face- that's how it's allowed to persist for as long as it does

The outcome was race neutral. You just don't like the outcome.

DP. And the new standard is race neutral and now you don't like the potential outcome. Oh well.

Let's let the court decide if its race neutral. "Experience factors" are not race neutral.

If it is truly based on “experience”, shouldn’t the higher points be given to Asian kids whose parents came to the US recently, have to work hard to provide for the family and who don’t speak English at home? Why would a child whose parents and grandparents were born in the US, spoke perfect English, didn’t have to apply for a US visa, green card, employment authorization, etc. be given any “experience” points?

Experience factors aren’t based on race at all. ELL students do get experience factor points, so if the student in your scenario is an ELL student, they would benefit. Currently, Asian students with low SES or who are ELL are being left out. The new admissions process would help them.

My child is a TJ student, and all of the Asian TJ parents I’ve ever met spoke with an accent.

Okay, and? My parents were immigrants and I was never in ESL. Just because somebody’s parents speak with an accent doesn’t mean the child is an English language learner.

We are immigrants, and our kids were never in ESL. However, we always speak our native language at home, so it was more difficult for our kids to learn and master English. We had no support system here (no extended family, no connections, no financial help from anyone) and not even green cards (have to renew US visas and driver’s licenses every year). Had no idea why AAP is so important until both kids were in the pool based on the test results and got rejected. So I think that our kids and others like them deserve the experience points much more than a child from a family who has lived in the US for centuries and has plenty of local relatives and friends for support.

The experience factors are for children from underserved groups - groups of people who have been systemically left behind. That includes students on free and reduced priced lunch and ELL students. If your child falls into one of those categories, cool, they get the experience factor points. If your child doesn’t fall into one of those categories then what exactly are you complaining about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

is desegregation a bad thing now?

The previous admissions criteria were race neutral.

the outcome wasn't. Most segregation post 60s is race neutral on it's face- that's how it's allowed to persist for as long as it does

The outcome was race neutral. You just don't like the outcome.

DP. And the new standard is race neutral and now you don't like the potential outcome. Oh well.

Let's let the court decide if its race neutral. "Experience factors" are not race neutral.

If it is truly based on “experience”, shouldn’t the higher points be given to Asian kids whose parents came to the US recently, have to work hard to provide for the family and who don’t speak English at home? Why would a child whose parents and grandparents were born in the US, spoke perfect English, didn’t have to apply for a US visa, green card, employment authorization, etc. be given any “experience” points?

Experience factors aren’t based on race at all. ELL students do get experience factor points, so if the student in your scenario is an ELL student, they would benefit. Currently, Asian students with low SES or who are ELL are being left out. The new admissions process would help them.

My child is a TJ student, and all of the Asian TJ parents I’ve ever met spoke with an accent.

Okay, and? My parents were immigrants and I was never in ESL. Just because somebody’s parents speak with an accent doesn’t mean the child is an English language learner.

We are immigrants, and our kids were never in ESL. However, we always speak our native language at home, so it was more difficult for our kids to learn and master English. We had no support system here (no extended family, no connections, no financial help from anyone) and not even green cards (have to renew US visas and driver’s licenses every year). Had no idea why AAP is so important until both kids were in the pool based on the test results and got rejected. So I think that our kids and others like them deserve the experience points much more than a child from a family who has lived in the US for centuries and has plenty of local relatives and friends for support.

Ok. Where to start? First, your English is perfect. If your kids had a hard time learning English, which I doubt, it's because you chose to speak a different language at home. It wasn't because you didn't understand/speak English like many poor immigrants. My DC's best friend's parents have a hard time communicating with me and can't help their kids at all. They also don't have the financial means for tutors. Those kids deserve equity points. Your kids, not so much. My friends are from Sweden, they chose not to speak English at home, their kids do extremely well in school because the parents are well educated...Do you really think their kids are much more deserving of equity points because they speak another language at home?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

is desegregation a bad thing now?

The previous admissions criteria were race neutral.

the outcome wasn't. Most segregation post 60s is race neutral on it's face- that's how it's allowed to persist for as long as it does

The outcome was race neutral. You just don't like the outcome.

DP. And the new standard is race neutral and now you don't like the potential outcome. Oh well.

Let's let the court decide if its race neutral. "Experience factors" are not race neutral.

If it is truly based on “experience”, shouldn’t the higher points be given to Asian kids whose parents came to the US recently, have to work hard to provide for the family and who don’t speak English at home? Why would a child whose parents and grandparents were born in the US, spoke perfect English, didn’t have to apply for a US visa, green card, employment authorization, etc. be given any “experience” points?

Experience factors aren’t based on race at all. ELL students do get experience factor points, so if the student in your scenario is an ELL student, they would benefit. Currently, Asian students with low SES or who are ELL are being left out. The new admissions process would help them.

My child is a TJ student, and all of the Asian TJ parents I’ve ever met spoke with an accent.

Okay, and? My parents were immigrants and I was never in ESL. Just because somebody’s parents speak with an accent doesn’t mean the child is an English language learner.

We are immigrants, and our kids were never in ESL. However, we always speak our native language at home, so it was more difficult for our kids to learn and master English. We had no support system here (no extended family, no connections, no financial help from anyone) and not even green cards (have to renew US visas and driver’s licenses every year). Had no idea why AAP is so important until both kids were in the pool based on the test results and got rejected. So I think that our kids and others like them deserve the experience points much more than a child from a family who has lived in the US for centuries and has plenty of local relatives and friends for support.

So, you who weren't born here think your kids are much more derserving of the benefits of a good education than kids of people who have been in the US for centuries? The entitlement! I say this as someone born in another country, who speaks with an accent. I didn't know about AAP until my oldest was in pool either, and I have no family close by. But, my kids certainly had more advantages than many URM kids whose families have been here for generations. Also, if you are here on a work visa that had to be renewed, you are likely gainfully employed with a decent income. No, having your parents renew their visa annually isn't more derserving than, for example, living in poverty. This TJ tunnel vision makes people say some crazy things. Get a grip.

I was only talking about the experience points that were developed to help children of a very specific one race. If they are “experience” points, then they should go to the kids of immigrants and not to the families who have lived here for generations. If they are in fact “race” points, they should have been called exactly by that name.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

is desegregation a bad thing now?

The previous admissions criteria were race neutral.

the outcome wasn't. Most segregation post 60s is race neutral on it's face- that's how it's allowed to persist for as long as it does

The outcome was race neutral. You just don't like the outcome.

DP. And the new standard is race neutral and now you don't like the potential outcome. Oh well.

Let's let the court decide if its race neutral. "Experience factors" are not race neutral.

If it is truly based on “experience”, shouldn’t the higher points be given to Asian kids whose parents came to the US recently, have to work hard to provide for the family and who don’t speak English at home? Why would a child whose parents and grandparents were born in the US, spoke perfect English, didn’t have to apply for a US visa, green card, employment authorization, etc. be given any “experience” points?

Experience factors aren’t based on race at all. ELL students do get experience factor points, so if the student in your scenario is an ELL student, they would benefit. Currently, Asian students with low SES or who are ELL are being left out. The new admissions process would help them.

My child is a TJ student, and all of the Asian TJ parents I’ve ever met spoke with an accent.

Okay, and? My parents were immigrants and I was never in ESL. Just because somebody’s parents speak with an accent doesn’t mean the child is an English language learner.

We are immigrants, and our kids were never in ESL. However, we always speak our native language at home, so it was more difficult for our kids to learn and master English. We had no support system here (no extended family, no connections, no financial help from anyone) and not even green cards (have to renew US visas and driver’s licenses every year). Had no idea why AAP is so important until both kids were in the pool based on the test results and got rejected. So I think that our kids and others like them deserve the experience points much more than a child from a family who has lived in the US for centuries and has plenty of local relatives and friends for support.

The experience factors are for children from underserved groups - groups of people who have been systemically left behind. That includes students on free and reduced priced lunch and ELL students. If your child falls into one of those categories, cool, they get the experience factor points. If your child doesn’t fall into one of those categories then what exactly are you complaining about?

Seems like a scam to redistribute seats for blatantly political purposes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The experience factors are for children from underserved groups - groups of people who have been systemically left behind. That includes students on free and reduced priced lunch and ELL students. If your child falls into one of those categories, cool, they get the experience factor points. If your child doesn’t fall into one of those categories then what exactly are you complaining about?

Who left them behind and why is someone supposed to serve them ("underserved" implies that someone didn't serve them hard enough)? They were born in the wealthy country, with the US citizenship and English spoken at home and plenty of relatives in the area. There are plenty of free resources for anyone interested in math. They know how to read and use Internet, public libraries are free.

Now it's not enough to provide a free lunch, it also comes with the experience factor points. And the hardworking people who pay for their own lunches and also pay for someone else's free lunches get nothing in return, except for maybe a higher tax rate.

[Anonymous]

Wow, the ignorance of the above post is shocking even by DCUM standards. Read . . . A Hope In The Unseen. If you care to broaden your understanding of the underserved by even one iota.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Ok. Where to start? First, your English is perfect. If your kids had a hard time learning English, which I doubt, it's because you chose to speak a different language at home. It wasn't because you didn't understand/speak English like many poor immigrants. My DC's best friend's parents have a hard time communicating with me and can't help their kids at all. They also don't have the financial means for tutors. Those kids deserve equity points. Your kids, not so much. My friends are from Sweden, they chose not to speak English at home, their kids do extremely well in school because the parents are well educated...Do you really think their kids are much more deserving of equity points because they speak another language at home?

Thank you for complimenting my English. When I came to the US, I didn't understand what people were saying. In the car, I started listening to NPR because they talk non-stop and do so clearly. I borrowed audio books from the library and listened to them at home. Why can't poor immigrants that you refer to listen to NPR and audio books and take free English courses? There are plenty of them online and on the CDs that can be borrowed from the library. Pre-COVID, they used to have free in-person English classes in the libraries. When the resources are readily available, it's a personal choice what to learn or not to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, the ignorance of the above post is shocking even by DCUM standards. Read . . . A Hope In The Unseen. If you care to broaden your understanding of the underserved by even one iota.

Just looked it up. So many people come to the US from their poor countries without any money, learn English, get a degree, build a new life for their families from scratch. If they can do that, why can't a family move from SE DC to Fairfax county or any other part of the country and enroll their child in a better and nonviolent school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, the ignorance of the above post is shocking even by DCUM standards. Read . . . A Hope In The Unseen. If you care to broaden your understanding of the underserved by even one iota.

Just looked it up. So many people come to the US from their poor countries without any money, learn English, get a degree, build a new life for their families from scratch. If they can do that, why can't a family move from SE DC to Fairfax county or any other part of the country and enroll their child in a better and nonviolent school?

there is a will there's a way ..

Born in the family of a frontiersman in Kentucky in 1809, President Abraham Lincoln had to struggle to make ends meet. President Abraham Lincoln is known to have completed his initial studies under street lights and had to struggle hard to survive during the initial few years of his life. What were rich people doing then ? No tuitions or prep or private teachers ..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The experience factors are for children from underserved groups - groups of people who have been systemically left behind. That includes students on free and reduced priced lunch and ELL students. If your child falls into one of those categories, cool, they get the experience factor points. If your child doesn’t fall into one of those categories then what exactly are you complaining about?

You are begging the question. The post asks about why certain kids shouldn't get experience points, and you simply say because they do not fall in the categories for which experience points are awarded.

[Anonymous]

To everyone shaming people who have been oppressed by systemic racism and cyclical poverty in this country - shame on you.

You haven’t even bothered yourself enough to learn enough about the history of the US to understand how absolutely ignorant your comments are. If you don’t get it, how about you just take a class or read a book, or heck, listen to those with the lived experience?

The experience factors are not race based and you keep trying to make it seem like it is because of some sick and delusional thinking. You don’t even care that there are almost NO students on free and reduced price lunch at TJ, including Asian immigrants of low SES. If you really cared about anyone but yourself, you would be happy these children who have not previously had a hope of getting into TJ just might have a slight shot now. Stop being so selfish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, the ignorance of the above post is shocking even by DCUM standards. Read . . . A Hope In The Unseen. If you care to broaden your understanding of the underserved by even one iota.

Just looked it up. So many people come to the US from their poor countries without any money, learn English, get a degree, build a new life for their families from scratch. If they can do that, why can't a family move from SE DC to Fairfax county or any other part of the country and enroll their child in a better and nonviolent school?

Are you serious? Do you not realize the following:

1) It costs money to move.

2) If you live in DC and work in DC and rely on public transportation to get to work, moving wouldn’t be an option.

3) DC has systems in place that FFX county does not - such as free preschool and subsidized daycare. People living can’t just up and move and suddenly afford thousands of dollars in childcare.

4) SE DC is majority Black and FFX county is not even 1/4 Black. It quite frankly wouldn’t be as safe for a Black family in FFX county due to the racism they would face.

Also, it seems to me like you’re arguing all the schools in FCPS are great, so then what’s the big fuss over TJ? Clearly if any old school is fine for the people from SE DC, and FCPS school will be fine for your kids and the kids of anyone suing over TJ admissions reform.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

is desegregation a bad thing now?

The previous admissions criteria were race neutral.

the outcome wasn't. Most segregation post 60s is race neutral on it's face- that's how it's allowed to persist for as long as it does

The outcome was race neutral. You just don't like the outcome.

DP. And the new standard is race neutral and now you don't like the potential outcome. Oh well.

Let's let the court decide if its race neutral. "Experience factors" are not race neutral.

If it is truly based on “experience”, shouldn’t the higher points be given to Asian kids whose parents came to the US recently, have to work hard to provide for the family and who don’t speak English at home? Why would a child whose parents and grandparents were born in the US, spoke perfect English, didn’t have to apply for a US visa, green card, employment authorization, etc. be given any “experience” points?

Experience factors aren’t based on race at all. ELL students do get experience factor points, so if the student in your scenario is an ELL student, they would benefit. Currently, Asian students with low SES or who are ELL are being left out. The new admissions process would help them.

My child is a TJ student, and all of the Asian TJ parents I’ve ever met spoke with an accent.

Okay, and? My parents were immigrants and I was never in ESL. Just because somebody’s parents speak with an accent doesn’t mean the child is an English language learner.

We are immigrants, and our kids were never in ESL. However, we always speak our native language at home, so it was more difficult for our kids to learn and master English. We had no support system here (no extended family, no connections, no financial help from anyone) and not even green cards (have to renew US visas and driver’s licenses every year). Had no idea why AAP is so important until both kids were in the pool based on the test results and got rejected. So I think that our kids and others like them deserve the experience points much more than a child from a family who has lived in the US for centuries and has plenty of local relatives and friends for support.

So, you who weren't born here think your kids are much more derserving of the benefits of a good education than kids of people who have been in the US for centuries? The entitlement! I say this as someone born in another country, who speaks with an accent. I didn't know about AAP until my oldest was in pool either, and I have no family close by. But, my kids certainly had more advantages than many URM kids whose families have been here for generations. Also, if you are here on a work visa that had to be renewed, you are likely gainfully employed with a decent income. No, having your parents renew their visa annually isn't more derserving than, for example, living in poverty. This TJ tunnel vision makes people say some crazy things. Get a grip.

I was only talking about the experience points that were developed to help children of a very specific one race. If they are “experience” points, then they should go to the kids of immigrants and not to the families who have lived here for generations. If they are in fact “race” points, they should have been called exactly by that name.

Again, I'm an immigrant and my kids shouldn't get experience points for being my kid. They've never experienced poverty, they have two well educated parents...Experiencing adversity matters. There are kids of immigrants who deserve experience points, but it's not because they are children of immigrants, but because of their actual experiences. Are you really suggesting that being the child of an immigrant always deserves more experience points than someone from a multi generational American family? I guess you'll be fine when we start basing it on your suggested criteria and all the spots go to kids of undocumented Latinos immigrants? I mean, they have to deal with cayotes and treacherous conditions getting here, you just hopped on a plane. Their parents have to take low paying jobs because they don't even have the privilege of renewing a visa every year like you do. Do you think your attitude of absolute entitlement thinking your kid deserves more than kids from multigenerational American families just because their parents are immigrants serves your cause?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow, the ignorance of the above post is shocking even by DCUM standards. Read . . . A Hope In The Unseen. If you care to broaden your understanding of the underserved by even one iota.

She doesn't. She clearly only cares about shoving people out of the way and stomping on them if necessary to get what she thinks she deserves.