Teachers Not Wanting to Go Back in Person

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In most jobs where people were forced to go back to work in-person, companies were at least trying to observe safety protocols in a reasonable fashion.

I have a couple of friends in construction and they had masks and face shields were available for when guys were working indoors. Most of the time that people were working indoors, it was maybe 5-8 guys working in fairly large rooms or 1-3 guys working in smaller rooms.

Grocery store workers had plastic shields set up between them and the customers. PPE was provided. Cleaning solutions were provided and replentished by stores, so that they could wipe down frequently touched surfaces.

Schools on the other hand, provided the teachers with very little. I have friends in three different local school districts that have returned to work. There are times that there are 15-20 kids in a classroom with a teacher. Many classrooms did not have space to keep the kids 6 feet apart and they were lucky if kids were kept 3 feet apart. No plastic shields for teachers. Half were given face shields hand-made from page protectors. The others were not give face shields at all. I know three teachers who were given enough cleaning solutions to last the first week of class. When they asked for more, they were told that was all that was available. And they were given a long list of times they were supposed to clean surfaces which was multiple times a day. Teachers in 2 of the 3 school districts were explicitly told they were not allowed to ask parents of their students to augment cleaning supplies since there is a pandemic and they were not supposed to make the FARMS and lower income families feel guilty. So essentially they are expected to pay for cleaning supplies out of their own pockets. So the school districts have been lying about "adequate" cleaning supplies are being provided to the teaching staff. They are also lying about following CDC guidelines (or they were until a few days ago when the CDC guidelines were revised to allow 3 feet separation). Basically the school boards cannot be trusted to actually enforce health and safety. They are just saying whatever they need to say to get the schools open at the risk of students and faculty.

I am not a teacher, but have a lot of sympathy. I have actually amazon'ed shipments of wipes, cleaning supplies and paper towels to 5 teachers in the last 2 weeks. At least I have a stable job from an employer that cares about my health and safety. And I am a lot more financially stable than most teachers, so I provide them what support I can. And we are fortunate that we can keep our kids virtual until we, the parents, are vaccinated. We'll reconsider whether to send out kids back to school after we're both fully vaccinated (which may or may not happen during the school year).

This description of safety protocols does not apply to my area school, which has been back in person since August. We have face shields, cleaning solution, plexiglass, air filtration, and essentially anything else we asked for. Parents are extremely supportive, as is the administration. And we are not a wealthy school. This "private school teachers are abused" narrative doesn't fit my experience, nor any of my teacher friends. (The school did obtain a waiver from the state in August to go to three feet of distancing where necessary, as did several private schools, so that part is correct.)

The three area schools where this applies are PGCSS, HCPSS, and MCPS. I know teachers in all three (and my kids are in HCPSS). The working conditions are not good for teachers and students in these three area school systems. These are not private school systems and these teachers were forced back to school.

In HCPSS, where we are, I can't believe that they forced teachers and students back into school mid-3rd quarter when they could have waited to start 4th quarter in-person in 4 weeks and they would have ACTUALLY gotten 90% of the teachers vaccinated. The school board put out the deceptive narrative that 90% of the teachers and staff are vaccinated, when if you read the fine print they clarify that 90% of the staff either has a first vaccine shot or are scheduled for the first vaccine shot. I know from talking to the teachers around that those 90% scheduled for first shot include some that are scheduled for March 30, almost a month after they were required to report to school in person.

I know teachers in all three school systems who ran out of cleaning supplies between 1-2 weeks after returning to school and the schools have no more supplies to give them. None of the teachers I know have plexiglass in their rooms. Only some were given face shields. And MCPS and HCPSS teachers were instructed not to ask parents for supplies so if the school systems run out, they have to provide cleaning supplies out of pocket.

[Anonymous]

Once teachers have been vaccinated, it is time to get their reluctant butts back in the classroom. If they don't feel they can do so because they are "scared," or it's too hard, time to find a new profession.

I am a prof who went back in the classroom in August in an old building, teaching adults, who are far more contagious, with no plexiglass screens, no hysterical hypercleaning, no constant temp check, no testing. Not one student or prof or staff got sick. So no sympathy from me on recalcitrant teachers.

[Anonymous]

At this point, I’m tired of the constant whining and demands from parents and hope schools stay closed just to spite them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At least in the DMV, teachers have been prioritized for the vaccine, and many are fully immunized. This changes the narrative a lot, because it removes most of their concerns.

So what we are finding here is teachers that don't want to go back even AFTER being fully immunized, or that are refusing the vaccine.

Fun times.

In HCPSS, when teachers returned to school March 3, only about 25% had had at least one shot. At this point, it is about 60% (at least one shot). But the school said on 3/11 after they returned that at least 90% of the school staff was vaccinated. The fine print clarified that 90% of the staff had first shot or was scheduled for a first shot. I know that from talking to teachers that some that were "scheduled" for their first shot, they were scheduled for 3/27 (two teachers). They had to wait that long because they were told by their administrator that they were not allowed to take off school days to go and get vaccinated because there were not enough subs to go around and that was the first weekend appointment they could find.

So, at least 40% of the staff population that was forced to return on 3/3 have still not had at least the first shot. It's been almost 3 weeks since they had to return.

Additionally, studies show that for the first 12 days after the first show you have less than 50% protection from the vaccination. And it requires 14 days after the second shot to be fully immunized from the vaccint. That means that 60% of so have less than 50% protection from the vaccine if they have any at all.

In HCPSS, there are so few that are "fully immunized" as you suppose above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Construction is different as you are in a persons home or building and separated. Much easier to keep safe than with 30+ students to a room. You sound entitled. Hire a nanny.

Construction workers are not in people’s homes, and they can’t pay for nannies.

If you can’t do, teach.

Construction workers work in large spaces with adults, often outside. Teachers work in enclosed petri dishes with kids who won't cooperate and admin who won't allow them to be made to cooperate. Google "prolonged indoor exposure + COVID" and maybe then you'll understand the difference between construction work and teaching in a pandemic. Thanks ever so.

If you went to school 20-30 years ago, it doesn't mean you know jack about the profession of teaching, including that idiotic backwards bumper sticker slogan you just dropped. How embarrassing for you.

This is a Richard Scarry Busy Busy Construction Site understanding of construction work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is very obvious that most of the people posting here don't understand the concepts of proximity and duration, which are the problem stepchildren of Covid and the issues in school classrooms. With kids now eating in the classrooms twice a day, and mask breaks, there is a lot more opportunity for exposure for other kids and their teachers because of proximity and duration. If the adults posting here don't understand that then they shouldn't be posting.

I completely understand why teachers are upset about the poor working conditions. Not only are they being exposed two, three or four times a day to asymptomatic super-spreaders for up to 20-30 minutes a time but they have to deal with parents who don't understand the risks when they send their kids to school sick.

Last week was Day 1 for a cohort at our kids' school. Guess what? A parent sent her kid to school sick because she "needed a break." Great. That kind of idiotic behavior is exactly why we're choosing to keep our kids DL. Besides the fact that, as has been amply demonstrated on prior pages, the only kids in school are the behavior problem.

My kids saw the writing on the wall with that one. We tried to say that it wouldn't happen but when I look at their screens during attendance I see -exactly- what they were talking about. They'll stay home until things are better.

Parents aren't usually broadcasting statements like this to other parents. This smells like r/thathappened

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least in the DMV, teachers have been prioritized for the vaccine, and many are fully immunized. This changes the narrative a lot, because it removes most of their concerns.

So what we are finding here is teachers that don't want to go back even AFTER being fully immunized, or that are refusing the vaccine.

Fun times.

In HCPSS, when teachers returned to school March 3, only about 25% had had at least one shot. At this point, it is about 60% (at least one shot). But the school said on 3/11 after they returned that at least 90% of the school staff was vaccinated. The fine print clarified that 90% of the staff had first shot or was scheduled for a first shot. I know that from talking to teachers that some that were "scheduled" for their first shot, they were scheduled for 3/27 (two teachers). They had to wait that long because they were told by their administrator that they were not allowed to take off school days to go and get vaccinated because there were not enough subs to go around and that was the first weekend appointment they could find.

So, at least 40% of the staff population that was forced to return on 3/3 have still not had at least the first shot. It's been almost 3 weeks since they had to return.

Additionally, studies show that for the first 12 days after the first show you have less than 50% protection from the vaccination. And it requires 14 days after the second shot to be fully immunized from the vaccint. That means that 60% of so have less than 50% protection from the vaccine if they have any at all.

In HCPSS, there are so few that are "fully immunized" as you suppose above.

My points were that: 1) once teachers are fully immunized they can't complain about how their workplaces are so much more dangerous than everywhere else, 2) you *DO* have fully immunized teachers here that are STILL not going back or are arguing that they shouldn't have to go back once fully immunized, 3) you have teachers who are refusing the vaccine and therefore arguing they shouldn't go back. By refusal I don't mean "your doctor says you shouldn't get the vaccine." I mean "your doctor says you should get the vaccine but you won't."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is very obvious that most of the people posting here don't understand the concepts of proximity and duration, which are the problem stepchildren of Covid and the issues in school classrooms. With kids now eating in the classrooms twice a day, and mask breaks, there is a lot more opportunity for exposure for other kids and their teachers because of proximity and duration. If the adults posting here don't understand that then they shouldn't be posting.

I completely understand why teachers are upset about the poor working conditions. Not only are they being exposed two, three or four times a day to asymptomatic super-spreaders for up to 20-30 minutes a time but they have to deal with parents who don't understand the risks when they send their kids to school sick.

Last week was Day 1 for a cohort at our kids' school. Guess what? A parent sent her kid to school sick because she "needed a break." Great. That kind of idiotic behavior is exactly why we're choosing to keep our kids DL. Besides the fact that, as has been amply demonstrated on prior pages, the only kids in school are the behavior problem.

My kids saw the writing on the wall with that one. We tried to say that it wouldn't happen but when I look at their screens during attendance I see -exactly- what they were talking about. They'll stay home until things are better.

Parents aren't usually broadcasting statements like this to other parents. This smells like r/thathappened

Good point. I also call BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Construction is different as you are in a persons home or building and separated. Much easier to keep safe than with 30+ students to a room. You sound entitled. Hire a nanny.

Construction workers are not in people’s homes, and they can’t pay for nannies.

If you can’t do, teach.

Construction workers work in large spaces with adults, often outside. Teachers work in enclosed petri dishes with kids who won't cooperate and admin who won't allow them to be made to cooperate. Google "prolonged indoor exposure + COVID" and maybe then you'll understand the difference between construction work and teaching in a pandemic. Thanks ever so.

If you went to school 20-30 years ago, it doesn't mean you know jack about the profession of teaching, including that idiotic backwards bumper sticker slogan you just dropped. How embarrassing for you.

This is a Richard Scarry Busy Busy Construction Site understanding of construction work.

LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Once teachers have been vaccinated, it is time to get their reluctant butts back in the classroom. If they don't feel they can do so because they are "scared," or it's too hard, time to find a new profession.

I am a prof who went back in the classroom in August in an old building, teaching adults, who are far more contagious, with no plexiglass screens, no hysterical hypercleaning, no constant temp check, no testing. Not one student or prof or staff got sick. So no sympathy from me on recalcitrant teachers.

Do you have to change their diapers? Do you get spit on and hit and scratched? Do your adults understand distancing and mask wearing? I am back in school with my special Ed preschoolers. I am not complaining, I am happy to be back and I know they learn better in person. But please don’t try to tell me that your job teaching adults is more difficult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Once teachers have been vaccinated, it is time to get their reluctant butts back in the classroom. If they don't feel they can do so because they are "scared," or it's too hard, time to find a new profession.

I am a prof who went back in the classroom in August in an old building, teaching adults, who are far more contagious, with no plexiglass screens, no hysterical hypercleaning, no constant temp check, no testing. Not one student or prof or staff got sick. So no sympathy from me on recalcitrant teachers.

Do you have to change their diapers? Do you get spit on and hit and scratched? Do your adults understand distancing and mask wearing? I am back in school with my special Ed preschoolers. I am not complaining, I am happy to be back and I know they learn better in person. But please don’t try to tell me that your job teaching adults is more difficult.

You seem mad. You also don't seem to understand how the PP is indeed at higher risk of COVID than yourself. I'm sorry you get scratched by toddlers, but you literally signed up for that, and "being scratched by toddlers" is not a known method of COVID transmission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Once teachers have been vaccinated, it is time to get their reluctant butts back in the classroom. If they don't feel they can do so because they are "scared," or it's too hard, time to find a new profession.

I am a prof who went back in the classroom in August in an old building, teaching adults, who are far more contagious, with no plexiglass screens, no hysterical hypercleaning, no constant temp check, no testing. Not one student or prof or staff got sick. So no sympathy from me on recalcitrant teachers.

Do you have to change their diapers? Do you get spit on and hit and scratched? Do your adults understand distancing and mask wearing? I am back in school with my special Ed preschoolers. I am not complaining, I am happy to be back and I know they learn better in person. But please don’t try to tell me that your job teaching adults is more difficult.

You seem mad. You also don't seem to understand how the PP is indeed at higher risk of COVID than yourself. I'm sorry you get scratched by toddlers, but you literally signed up for that, and "being scratched by toddlers" is not a known method of COVID transmission.

Nope, not mad at all. If you read my post you would see that I am happy to be back. I just think it is odd that the PP was insinuating that working with adults is harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Once teachers have been vaccinated, it is time to get their reluctant butts back in the classroom. If they don't feel they can do so because they are "scared," or it's too hard, time to find a new profession.

I am a prof who went back in the classroom in August in an old building, teaching adults, who are far more contagious, with no plexiglass screens, no hysterical hypercleaning, no constant temp check, no testing. Not one student or prof or staff got sick. So no sympathy from me on recalcitrant teachers.

Do you have to change their diapers? Do you get spit on and hit and scratched? Do your adults understand distancing and mask wearing? I am back in school with my special Ed preschoolers. I am not complaining, I am happy to be back and I know they learn better in person. But please don’t try to tell me that your job teaching adults is more difficult.

You seem mad. You also don't seem to understand how the PP is indeed at higher risk of COVID than yourself. I'm sorry you get scratched by toddlers, but you literally signed up for that, and "being scratched by toddlers" is not a known method of COVID transmission.

Nope, not mad at all. If you read my post you would see that I am happy to be back. I just think it is odd that the PP was insinuating that working with adults is harder.

I also teach special education and it’s insulting to state that any educator, or any person for that matter, shows up to work to be assaulted. You obviously have no idea what our jobs entail. Stay in your lane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In most jobs where people were forced to go back to work in-person, companies were at least trying to observe safety protocols in a reasonable fashion.

I have a couple of friends in construction and they had masks and face shields were available for when guys were working indoors. Most of the time that people were working indoors, it was maybe 5-8 guys working in fairly large rooms or 1-3 guys working in smaller rooms.

Grocery store workers had plastic shields set up between them and the customers. PPE was provided. Cleaning solutions were provided and replentished by stores, so that they could wipe down frequently touched surfaces.

Schools on the other hand, provided the teachers with very little. I have friends in three different local school districts that have returned to work. There are times that there are 15-20 kids in a classroom with a teacher. Many classrooms did not have space to keep the kids 6 feet apart and they were lucky if kids were kept 3 feet apart. No plastic shields for teachers. Half were given face shields hand-made from page protectors. The others were not give face shields at all. I know three teachers who were given enough cleaning solutions to last the first week of class. When they asked for more, they were told that was all that was available. And they were given a long list of times they were supposed to clean surfaces which was multiple times a day. Teachers in 2 of the 3 school districts were explicitly told they were not allowed to ask parents of their students to augment cleaning supplies since there is a pandemic and they were not supposed to make the FARMS and lower income families feel guilty. So essentially they are expected to pay for cleaning supplies out of their own pockets. So the school districts have been lying about "adequate" cleaning supplies are being provided to the teaching staff. They are also lying about following CDC guidelines (or they were until a few days ago when the CDC guidelines were revised to allow 3 feet separation). Basically the school boards cannot be trusted to actually enforce health and safety. They are just saying whatever they need to say to get the schools open at the risk of students and faculty.

I am not a teacher, but have a lot of sympathy. I have actually amazon'ed shipments of wipes, cleaning supplies and paper towels to 5 teachers in the last 2 weeks. At least I have a stable job from an employer that cares about my health and safety. And I am a lot more financially stable than most teachers, so I provide them what support I can. And we are fortunate that we can keep our kids virtual until we, the parents, are vaccinated. We'll reconsider whether to send out kids back to school after we're both fully vaccinated (which may or may not happen during the school year).

This description of safety protocols does not apply to my area school, which has been back in person since August. We have face shields, cleaning solution, plexiglass, air filtration, and essentially anything else we asked for. Parents are extremely supportive, as is the administration. And we are not a wealthy school. This "private school teachers are abused" narrative doesn't fit my experience, nor any of my teacher friends. (The school did obtain a waiver from the state in August to go to three feet of distancing where necessary, as did several private schools, so that part is correct.)

The three area schools where this applies are PGCSS, HCPSS, and MCPS. I know teachers in all three (and my kids are in HCPSS). The working conditions are not good for teachers and students in these three area school systems. These are not private school systems and these teachers were forced back to school.

In HCPSS, where we are, I can't believe that they forced teachers and students back into school mid-3rd quarter when they could have waited to start 4th quarter in-person in 4 weeks and they would have ACTUALLY gotten 90% of the teachers vaccinated. The school board put out the deceptive narrative that 90% of the teachers and staff are vaccinated, when if you read the fine print they clarify that 90% of the staff either has a first vaccine shot or are scheduled for the first vaccine shot. I know from talking to the teachers around that those 90% scheduled for first shot include some that are scheduled for March 30, almost a month after they were required to report to school in person.

I know teachers in all three school systems who ran out of cleaning supplies between 1-2 weeks after returning to school and the schools have no more supplies to give them. None of the teachers I know have plexiglass in their rooms. Only some were given face shields. And MCPS and HCPSS teachers were instructed not to ask parents for supplies so if the school systems run out, they have to provide cleaning supplies out of pocket.

Perhaps if the teachers' union in HCPSS had committed to the idea of going back after staff was vaccinated they would not be in this situation. Instead, they suggested that it was wrong to even plan for a return and never once gave even the slightest indication that members would be comfortable going back after being vaccinated. It was not until the Gov. and MSDE put pressure on districts to reopen that vaccinations became paramount. The reality is that they never wanted to go back this year and flatly refused to use a concurrent teaching model. It's "IMPOSSIBLE," as you may recall. I'm not saying that it is ideal, but ill-conceived selfish, theatrical tantrums did not serve the great teachers in HCPSS well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Once teachers have been vaccinated, it is time to get their reluctant butts back in the classroom. If they don't feel they can do so because they are "scared," or it's too hard, time to find a new profession.

I am a prof who went back in the classroom in August in an old building, teaching adults, who are far more contagious, with no plexiglass screens, no hysterical hypercleaning, no constant temp check, no testing. Not one student or prof or staff got sick. So no sympathy from me on recalcitrant teachers.

Do you have to change their diapers? Do you get spit on and hit and scratched? Do your adults understand distancing and mask wearing? I am back in school with my special Ed preschoolers. I am not complaining, I am happy to be back and I know they learn better in person. But please don’t try to tell me that your job teaching adults is more difficult.

You seem mad. You also don't seem to understand how the PP is indeed at higher risk of COVID than yourself. I'm sorry you get scratched by toddlers, but you literally signed up for that, and "being scratched by toddlers" is not a known method of COVID transmission.

Nope, not mad at all. If you read my post you would see that I am happy to be back. I just think it is odd that the PP was insinuating that working with adults is harder.

I also teach special education and it’s insulting to state that any educator, or any person for that matter, shows up to work to be assaulted. You obviously have no idea what our jobs entail. Stay in your lane.

Veterinarians expect that every so often they'll be clawed by a patient. Home health aids expect that they'll have to deal with aggression and bodily fluids. Someone who works in daycare for infants knows there will be a lot of poop. Do you think they show up to work in order to be assaulted? No. But it's part of the job. If you went into special ed pre-k and didn't expect to have to deal with aggression and bodily fluids sometimes, you are a fool.