Ellen Page announced new identity as Elliott Page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is his spouse now ungay?

that's my question. The spouse was a lesbian, but is now married to a man?

Elliot says he’s non-binary not a man.

Why the transition then and the name change?

I have the same question. Why not just live life as a butch lesbian?

What exactly is non-binary then? You don't identify as either man or woman?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is his spouse now ungay?

that's my question. The spouse was a lesbian, but is now married to a man?

Elliot says he’s non-binary not a man.

Why the transition then and the name change?

Because being non-binary is all the rage among young lesbians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is his spouse now ungay?

that's my question. The spouse was a lesbian, but is now married to a man?

Elliot says he’s non-binary not a man.

Why the transition then and the name change?

I have the same question. Why not just live life as a butch lesbian?

What exactly is non-binary then? You don't identify as either man or woman?[b]

Yep. They just want everyone to know they are not girly-girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you for answering this question. I am sure the PPs appreciate it and I do too. These issues can be difficult for those of us of a certain age who want to be kind, respectful, and inclusive to wrap our minds around. Consequently, people ask questions which can be interpreted as rude or disrespectful. Generally people who ask questions aren't trying to ridicule. They just want to understand.

Nonetheless, the prevailing attitude of many "activists" is to respond: "it's not my job to educate you. Figure it out." It is so unproductive. I mean it's not like you can google "what category do you fall in if you are a lesbian who got married to a woman who is now a man?" It isn't easy to understand. Maybe the answer is that you don't categorize, but often the category is important if you want to understand and offer respect. The opposite of love is indifference. Interest demonstrates caring.

NP. It's interesting that you chose to respond to a post that answered the question in good faith by complaining about "those people" who don't explain things to you.

I'd also push back on the idea that asking questions always means caring. There's a phenomenon that is rife in discussions of trans issues that can be called "JAQ'ing off."

It's Just Asking Questions, except the questions are often confrontational, rude, or can easily be Googled.

Do you take my post as being rude? It wasn't intended to be. I was thanking the PP for kindly taking the time to answer the question and responding to other impatient posters. You are right, some people can be dismissive and disrespectful when they ask questions. But not everyone.

My "activist" that I had in mind when writing was my college aged niece and her cohorts who are always judging even well-intentioned older people who are trying their best to understand and to do and say the right thing. I didn't want to brand all young people the same way, because of course, they aren't. I have kids of my own who are in their 20s and an older spouse who is slow to understand some of these issues. The kids are great at helping to educate him.

My spouse is the most inclusive loving human being on earth (a much better human being than I am). When I married him, I knew that he would accept and fiercely love our children, just as they are. However, he struggles with pronouns, names, and categories that are unfamiliar to him. Despite his loving and open heart, his words and questions don't always come out as politically correct. We did not grow up with pronouns or trans people and most of these categories did not exist for the majority of our lives. I've read extensively about these issues, but still, many of these terms overlap or are inconsistently defined. I find them difficult to keep straight. This is, after all, a discussion forum, in which questions are routinely asked and answered, regardless of whether information is available elsewhere. Again, I appreciate the kind posters who take the time to answer questions asked in good faith.

NP here and honestly, PP, I'm with you. I'm a liberal lesbian and this thing that kids do these days of telling everyone that it's "not their job to educate you" drives me crazy, and certainly doesn't lead to more goodwill and understanding. There's a difference when someone is Just Asking Questions that are clearly intentionally offensive and someone with good intentions asking a question. Yes, some things can be googled, but having a conversation (albeit anonymous and over the internet) with someone who knows these things can give a broader understanding than something prepackaged on the internet. Especially if you don't know the source and intention of the author.

For example, and to put it all in a broader context, it seems the word "queer" is the subject of vigorous debate these days. I like it myself because it is an umbrella term but that seems to be the heart of the debate. As I understand it, Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists (TERFs, or from what I can tell, generally older lesbians who are mad that some younger people transition) have started telling everyone that queer is a slur specifically because they do not want trans folks under our umbrella. So there's a certain segment who refer to queer as "the Q slur" and freak out whenever someone uses it for someone whose exact identity is unknown. Anyway, it's all silly, and excluding trans people from our community is vile.

But good for Elliot and I hope he's happy. And like a PP before, I'm very heartened by the overwhelming support here for him specifically and trans folks in general.

PP that you responded to. Thank you for a very informative (and supportive) response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are films that he made as Ellen\her page still credited as Ellen and a movie like Juno is it still referred to as her or his work?

Deadnaming is not appropriate anymore. I think because this has just been announced media outlets will refer to Ellen Page but it will not go on in the future. Of course, they are not going to be able to re-edit films and credit/title sequences once they are in the can. Here's one style guide: https://www.thewrap.com/transgender-deadnaming-elliot-page-lgbtq-organizations/

OMG. I read that article. It is absolutely no wonder people are afraid to ask questions about anything involving LGBTQ-issues. This “community” will bite your head off if you mistakenly choose the wrong pronouns or terminology. “Deadname”??
NP

[Anonymous]

Non-binary is not trans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Non-binary is not trans.

Then what exactly is it? And why would he choose the pronoun he rather than just using They/Them pronouns, change his name to a guy’s name and present as a guy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Non-binary is not trans.

Counterpoint: Yes it is.

Trans is an umbrella term for anyone whose gender presentation does not match their sex assigned at birth. Page was assigned female at birth but they don't identify as such now. Hence, trans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are films that he made as Ellen\her page still credited as Ellen and a movie like Juno is it still referred to as her or his work?

Deadnaming is not appropriate anymore. I think because this has just been announced media outlets will refer to Ellen Page but it will not go on in the future. Of course, they are not going to be able to re-edit films and credit/title sequences once they are in the can. Here's one style guide: https://www.thewrap.com/transgender-deadnaming-elliot-page-lgbtq-organizations/

OMG. I read that article. It is absolutely no wonder people are afraid to ask questions about anything involving LGBTQ-issues. This “community” will bite your head off if you mistakenly choose the wrong pronouns or terminology. “Deadname”??
NP

No one will bite your head off for mistakenly using the wrong name or pronoun once. They will correct you.

You deliberately using the wrong name or pronoun repeatedly because you're uncomfortable with it or you just don't care to is a different story.

[Anonymous]

Non-binary people may identify as having two or more genders (being bigender or trigender);[5][6] having no gender (agender, nongendered, genderless, genderfree or neutrois); moving between genders or having a fluctuating gender identity (genderfluid);[7] being third gender or other-gendered (a category that includes those who do not place a name to their gender).[8]

Gender identity is separate from sexual or romantic orientation,[9] and non-binary people have a variety of sexual orientations, just as cisgender people do.[10]

[Anonymous]

Trigender?

[Anonymous]

Binary, trinary....you all discriminate against rational numbers. I'm PInary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Binary, trinary....you all discriminate against rational numbers. I'm PInary.

*Irrational numbers, sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Non-binary is not trans.

Non-binary people very much want to be thought of as trans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Non-binary is not trans.

Trans is now whatever the hell someone wants it to be. Seriously.