Ellen Page announced new identity as Elliott Page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But thanks for your response and the previous one from another poster. It makes sense. I think we/I were socialized to have boxes to put people in with clearly defined rules and roles.

I’ll file this under it’s complicated and it’s really non of my business how this specific couple deals with their personal life.

I'm the PP who mentioned Caitlyn Jenner, and I think the fact that so many of the most prominent trans* celebrities are AMAB (assigned male at birth) and have decided to pursue gender confirmation surgery tends to make people believe that there's one way to "be trans" and that way is full social and physical transition.

But especially among the younger generation, there's a lot more flex there. People are transitioning in different ways, that make sense to them, and that might not conform to the "gender binary."

That's a great explanation. I think that is often the disconnect with older people trying to understand these issues. The ability of this younger generation to see things as fluid and avoid putting things in specific boxes astonishes me. It amazing, but it isn't easy to change your way of thinking when you have been checking boxes your whole life.

[Anonymous]

Try not to use the phrase ungay. It’s ignorant. I appreciate that you’re trying to learn more but that term is really not a good one to use. Ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This makes so much sense. Good on him.

Why does this make so much sense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This makes so much sense. Good on him.

Unsure of pronouns...but it seems right.

The correct pronouns, given in the statement, are: he/they.

Why he and they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can somebody explain he/they.

I understand they/them and he/his/him

But why he/they

He's signaling that he doesn't really care whether you use he/his/him or they/theirs/them, but he does not want to be referred to as she/her/hers

Basically, he is saying he's agnostic between those two choices, and folks can use the one that works for them when referring to him/them

Thanks for this. I was coming to ask the same question. I didn't know if his/him were off-limits. But it was more of a generalized 'use these terms'. Also, so glad to see Elliot's news. Important for kids and for the rest of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But thanks for your response and the previous one from another poster. It makes sense. I think we/I were socialized to have boxes to put people in with clearly defined rules and roles.

I’ll file this under it’s complicated and it’s really non of my business how this specific couple deals with their personal life.

I'm the PP who mentioned Caitlyn Jenner, and I think the fact that so many of the most prominent trans* celebrities are AMAB (assigned male at birth) and have decided to pursue gender confirmation surgery tends to make people believe that there's one way to "be trans" and that way is full social and physical transition.

But especially among the younger generation, there's a lot more flex there. People are transitioning in different ways, that make sense to them, and that might not conform to the "gender binary."

That's a great explanation. I think that is often the disconnect with older people trying to understand these issues. The ability of this younger generation to see things as fluid and avoid putting things in specific boxes astonishes me. It amazing, but it isn't easy to change your way of thinking when you have been checking boxes your whole life.

Yeah, and I think the way that these issues were explained to straight/cis Americans did tend to reinforce the gender binary. Until about 5 years ago, the discourse was very much dominated by folks who said "I was a woman TRAPPED in the body of a man!!"

That is one trans experience, but it's not the only trans experience. It's also the one that was the easiest to digest, and that got the most traction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Amazing actor, amazing activist, interesting person to boot! I hope, as another Canadian, he finds comfort at home here, where I think we are often more accepting, though not perfect.

Hopes for their happiness. This can’t be easy.

It’s easy. Being non-binary is quite fashionable among lesbians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This makes so much sense. Good on him.

Why does this make so much sense?

It just feels like the right expression for him. As soon as I read the announcement my first thought was “of course!”. I don’t know how to explain it more clearly for you. But I guess it’s like that when people come out. You knew all along even if it was a subconscious observation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is his spouse now ungay?

that's my question. The spouse was a lesbian, but is now married to a man?

Elliot says he’s non-binary not a man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thank you for answering this question. I am sure the PPs appreciate it and I do too. These issues can be difficult for those of us of a certain age who want to be kind, respectful, and inclusive to wrap our minds around. Consequently, people ask questions which can be interpreted as rude or disrespectful. Generally people who ask questions aren't trying to ridicule. They just want to understand.

Nonetheless, the prevailing attitude of many "activists" is to respond: "it's not my job to educate you. Figure it out." It is so unproductive. I mean it's not like you can google "what category do you fall in if you are a lesbian who got married to a woman who is now a man?" It isn't easy to understand. Maybe the answer is that you don't categorize, but often the category is important if you want to understand and offer respect. The opposite of love is indifference. Interest demonstrates caring.

NP. It's interesting that you chose to respond to a post that answered the question in good faith by complaining about "those people" who don't explain things to you.

I'd also push back on the idea that asking questions always means caring. There's a phenomenon that is rife in discussions of trans issues that can be called "JAQ'ing off."

It's Just Asking Questions, except the questions are often confrontational, rude, or can easily be Googled.

Do you take my post as being rude? It wasn't intended to be. I was thanking the PP for kindly taking the time to answer the question and responding to other impatient posters. You are right, some people can be dismissive and disrespectful when they ask questions. But not everyone.

My "activist" that I had in mind when writing was my college aged niece and her cohorts who are always judging even well-intentioned older people who are trying their best to understand and to do and say the right thing. I didn't want to brand all young people the same way, because of course, they aren't. I have kids of my own who are in their 20s and an older spouse who is slow to understand some of these issues. The kids are great at helping to educate him.

My spouse is the most inclusive loving human being on earth (a much better human being than I am). When I married him, I knew that he would accept and fiercely love our children, just as they are. However, he struggles with pronouns, names, and categories that are unfamiliar to him. Despite his loving and open heart, his words and questions don't always come out as politically correct. We did not grow up with pronouns or trans people and most of these categories did not exist for the majority of our lives. I've read extensively about these issues, but still, many of these terms overlap or are inconsistently defined. I find them difficult to keep straight. This is, after all, a discussion forum, in which questions are routinely asked and answered, regardless of whether information is available elsewhere. Again, I appreciate the kind posters who take the time to answer questions asked in good faith.

NP here and honestly, PP, I'm with you. I'm a liberal lesbian and this thing that kids do these days of telling everyone that it's "not their job to educate you" drives me crazy, and certainly doesn't lead to more goodwill and understanding. There's a difference when someone is Just Asking Questions that are clearly intentionally offensive and someone with good intentions asking a question. Yes, some things can be googled, but having a conversation (albeit anonymous and over the internet) with someone who knows these things can give a broader understanding than something prepackaged on the internet. Especially if you don't know the source and intention of the author.

For example, and to put it all in a broader context, it seems the word "queer" is the subject of vigorous debate these days. I like it myself because it is an umbrella term but that seems to be the heart of the debate. As I understand it, Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists (TERFs, or from what I can tell, generally older lesbians who are mad that some younger people transition) have started telling everyone that queer is a slur specifically because they do not want trans folks under our umbrella. So there's a certain segment who refer to queer as "the Q slur" and freak out whenever someone uses it for someone whose exact identity is unknown. Anyway, it's all silly, and excluding trans people from our community is vile.

But good for Elliot and I hope he's happy. And like a PP before, I'm very heartened by the overwhelming support here for him specifically and trans folks in general.

[Anonymous]

I think E. Page's acting is fantastic and has my support regardless of any decision on gender. However, googling height shows that E. Page is only 5'1".
I feel for people with gender dysphoria who are FTM who are short or MTF who are very, very tall. It has to be a harder adjustment. Life is often not kind to short men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So is his spouse now ungay?

that's my question. The spouse was a lesbian, but is now married to a man?

Elliot says he’s non-binary not a man.

Why the transition then and the name change?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are films that he made as Ellen\her page still credited as Ellen and a movie like Juno is it still referred to as her or his work?

Deadnaming is not appropriate anymore. I think because this has just been announced media outlets will refer to Ellen Page but it will not go on in the future. Of course, they are not going to be able to re-edit films and credit/title sequences once they are in the can. Here's one style guide: https://www.thewrap.com/transgender-deadnaming-elliot-page-lgbtq-organizations/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think E. Page's acting is fantastic and has my support regardless of any decision on gender. However, googling height shows that E. Page is only 5'1".
I feel for people with gender dysphoria who are FTM who are short or MTF who are very, very tall. It has to be a harder adjustment. Life is often not kind to short men.

Can you people read? Elliot claims to be non-binary, not a man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think E. Page's acting is fantastic and has my support regardless of any decision on gender. However, googling height shows that E. Page is only 5'1".
I feel for people with gender dysphoria who are FTM who are short or MTF who are very, very tall. It has to be a harder adjustment. Life is often not kind to short men.

Hollywood is filled with short men. Something about sets being cheaper to build that way. He'll be fine.