Average kid in an Ivy

[Anonymous]

I love this thread. It was worth opening for the overseas bribery story (which sounds highly probable to me, as an expat who has lived in the ME and SE Asia) and the RV trick alone. My kids would be classified as URM but have never known financial hardship. I do not plan to send them to undergrad in the U.S. because the system is distorted there and far too expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone I heard of got a luxury RV and parked it in a luxury RV resort. The family's two kids then became homeless under the federal definition of homeless. If you are homeless you are eligible for free lunch program. Many academic summer programs give scholarships to anyone on free lunch. Kids write essays saying they were homeless. Technically they were but grandparents lived nearby and kids and parents were usually there. They go every summer to amazing summer camps for free and I am sure they will use their being "homeless" to their benefit when applying to colleges.

bullshit!!!

I believe it.

I believe it too. I used to live in Santa Monica and there were entire families renting tiny 1 bedroom apartments to qualify for the local schools while in reality they owned houses up to an hour away where they spent their weekends and were their real family homes in areas with low ranking public schools. It happens, just because you aren't seeing it in Bethesda doesn't mean it is not happening elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone I heard of got a luxury RV and parked it in a luxury RV resort. The family's two kids then became homeless under the federal definition of homeless. If you are homeless you are eligible for free lunch program. Many academic summer programs give scholarships to anyone on free lunch. Kids write essays saying they were homeless. Technically they were but grandparents lived nearby and kids and parents were usually there. They go every summer to amazing summer camps for free and I am sure they will use their being "homeless" to their benefit when applying to colleges.

bullshit!!!

I believe it.

I believe it too. I used to live in Santa Monica and there were entire families renting tiny 1 bedroom apartments to qualify for the local schools while in reality they owned houses up to an hour away where they spent their weekends and were their real family homes in areas with low ranking public schools. It happens, just because you aren't seeing it in Bethesda doesn't mean it is not happening elsewhere.

Please read the post you are responding to. You are talking about changing primary residence to attend a better high school, not feigning homelessness on the chance that will benefit you in college admissions. The latter is a ridiculous proposition.

[Anonymous]

I’m an average kid who went to an ivy! Came from upper middle class town with parents who paid in full. I’m sure they didn’t bribe anyone. I’m an average kid, but for solid As in my hyper competitive public school and did the right extra curriculars. Never a standout brainiac. But smart enough. Definitely felt average of a little dumb at the ivy but gradulted cum laude albeit in an easy major and went on to ivy grad school. That was the late 90s.

[Anonymous]

Apparently a lot of people in these threads have never been to an ivy league school. I got a PhD in an ivy league school and taught classes to undergraduates there, as well as sat in some classes with graduate and undergraduate students (some large lectures are blended with a phd seminar component tacked on). I can assure you that there are MANY *average* students in the ivies, and that many of them are not rich or entitled. How did they get in? Well, I'm ballparking the ivies taking in 20k students per year and it just turns out that we don't have 20k stellar people in the united states each year. Go figure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So OP is throwing a fit and insulting everyone who disagrees with her insipid position.

And no OP I won't reply to you when you throw a whiny response at me, I'm just here to point out that you're a moron. Sorry about your kids, better luck next time.

OP didn’t “throw a fit,” but it seems like they hit a nerve with you.

+1

Birds of a feather....don't like being called out......

[Anonymous]

Not everyone at an Ivy is a prodigy — the class of kids from all Ivies in a given year is big enough that you have some differentiation. Taking athletics and the URM factor out of the equation, over the years I have seen American third culture kids applying from abroad and well-pedigreed rich kids who are bright but not brilliant be the main types that get in while being solid, great kids but not knock-your-socks-off impressive. Separately, there is a bucket of kids who were just pushed so much by parents that it’s all a show and no real drive or interest. They don’t impress me and I feel sorry for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Apparently a lot of people in these threads have never been to an ivy league school. I got a PhD in an ivy league school and taught classes to undergraduates there, as well as sat in some classes with graduate and undergraduate students (some large lectures are blended with a phd seminar component tacked on). I can assure you that there are MANY *average* students in the ivies, and that many of them are not rich or entitled. How did they get in? Well, I'm ballparking the ivies taking in 20k students per year and it just turns out that we don't have 20k stellar people in the united states each year. Go figure.

Apparently a lot of people don’t have to take statistics to get an Ivy League PhD.

20,000 students out of 3.7 million graduating each year... that’s a definition of “average” I was never taught.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's entirely possible for someone to get in on the basis of an invented sob story that isn't checked. Recently read essays for a scholarship in my home town and people wrote about their dad the heroin addict and their identical twin that died and people in jail and refugees in camps and rafts and honestly a lot of it is compelling but we don't verify it and some of it could be fiction. The question is how many people are unscrupulous enough to invent a family tragedy or claim they have cancer etc. I think there are more sociopaths in our midst than we suspect.

And you are pulling this right out of your bottom. There is no evidence to believe what you believe.

Not saying a kid can't lie on his essays -- but you forget about references, relationships with GCs, and you ignore how hard adcoms - particularly at the ivies where there is so much scrutiny -- work to admit the right kids. I guarantee you not only can they spot BS after readying tens of thousands of essays, they know when they have to check and when they don't. Takes one phone call.

I'm the teacher who wrote about the student whose parents bribed and bullied to ensure their child got the grades and recs he needed (plus, they lied in the essay). 1. It was very easy for them to pay the teachers and counsellors to do this. This was an international school where the US/UK teachers received plus packages and the "local hires" received the equivalent of $500 per month, and local hires taught some core subject classes. I am sure there were some US/UK teachers who accepted the bribe money in that case as well, and I am sure there are also teachers in the US who would give grades or recs for enough money. 2. No, they didn't check to confirm the facts in the essay. I don't know how they could have done this, or what they might have expected for confirmation of this story. 3. The father was a high level diplomat, and I know he had his colleagues supplying reference as well.

The student was high average. He was also mean and disrespectful to teachers and peers, and participated in no extracurriculars in high school. His father got him one internship at the embassy during a summer, and he quit after a week. There were no hooks, and no, I don't think applying from overseas is a hook at all. I have been teaching in international schools for almost 15 years, and every year many students apply to US universities. Ivy acceptances seem to be rarer among these students than they were among the students I taught back when I lived in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's entirely possible for someone to get in on the basis of an invented sob story that isn't checked. Recently read essays for a scholarship in my home town and people wrote about their dad the heroin addict and their identical twin that died and people in jail and refugees in camps and rafts and honestly a lot of it is compelling but we don't verify it and some of it could be fiction. The question is how many people are unscrupulous enough to invent a family tragedy or claim they have cancer etc. I think there are more sociopaths in our midst than we suspect.

And you are pulling this right out of your bottom. There is no evidence to believe what you believe.

Not saying a kid can't lie on his essays -- but you forget about references, relationships with GCs, and you ignore how hard adcoms - particularly at the ivies where there is so much scrutiny -- work to admit the right kids. I guarantee you not only can they spot BS after readying tens of thousands of essays, they know when they have to check and when they don't. Takes one phone call.

I'm the teacher who wrote about the student whose parents bribed and bullied to ensure their child got the grades and recs he needed (plus, they lied in the essay). 1. It was very easy for them to pay the teachers and counsellors to do this. This was an international school where the US/UK teachers received plus packages and the "local hires" received the equivalent of $500 per month, and local hires taught some core subject classes. I am sure there were some US/UK teachers who accepted the bribe money in that case as well, and I am sure there are also teachers in the US who would give grades or recs for enough money. 2. No, they didn't check to confirm the facts in the essay. I don't know how they could have done this, or what they might have expected for confirmation of this story. 3. The father was a high level diplomat, and I know he had his colleagues supplying reference as well.

The student was high average. He was also mean and disrespectful to teachers and peers, and participated in no extracurriculars in high school. His father got him one internship at the embassy during a summer, and he quit after a week. There were no hooks, and no, I don't think applying from overseas is a hook at all. I have been teaching in international schools for almost 15 years, and every year many students apply to US universities. Ivy acceptances seem to be rarer among these students than they were among the students I taught back when I lived in the US.

And yet they wanted him, so what are you missing? They wanted him over other kids. Are you suggesting he put lies in his essay that got him accepted over others with all else being equal? And you are not being honest yourself because you did not read the essay, now did you?

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY TOOK THAT KID BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE HIM. And you will never understand what the reasons were. To suggest it was because he put something extraordinary yet unverifiable in an essay you didn't even read is -- well, it speaks for itself.

Let it go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's entirely possible for someone to get in on the basis of an invented sob story that isn't checked. Recently read essays for a scholarship in my home town and people wrote about their dad the heroin addict and their identical twin that died and people in jail and refugees in camps and rafts and honestly a lot of it is compelling but we don't verify it and some of it could be fiction. The question is how many people are unscrupulous enough to invent a family tragedy or claim they have cancer etc. I think there are more sociopaths in our midst than we suspect.

And you are pulling this right out of your bottom. There is no evidence to believe what you believe.

Not saying a kid can't lie on his essays -- but you forget about references, relationships with GCs, and you ignore how hard adcoms - particularly at the ivies where there is so much scrutiny -- work to admit the right kids. I guarantee you not only can they spot BS after readying tens of thousands of essays, they know when they have to check and when they don't. Takes one phone call.

I'm the teacher who wrote about the student whose parents bribed and bullied to ensure their child got the grades and recs he needed (plus, they lied in the essay). 1. It was very easy for them to pay the teachers and counsellors to do this. This was an international school where the US/UK teachers received plus packages and the "local hires" received the equivalent of $500 per month, and local hires taught some core subject classes. I am sure there were some US/UK teachers who accepted the bribe money in that case as well, and I am sure there are also teachers in the US who would give grades or recs for enough money. 2. No, they didn't check to confirm the facts in the essay. I don't know how they could have done this, or what they might have expected for confirmation of this story. 3. The father was a high level diplomat, and I know he had his colleagues supplying reference as well.

The student was high average. He was also mean and disrespectful to teachers and peers, and participated in no extracurriculars in high school. His father got him one internship at the embassy during a summer, and he quit after a week. There were no hooks, and no, I don't think applying from overseas is a hook at all. I have been teaching in international schools for almost 15 years, and every year many students apply to US universities. Ivy acceptances seem to be rarer among these students than they were among the students I taught back when I lived in the US.

Having a parent who is a high level diplomat is a bit of a hook, actually. The kid has probably had interesting experiences through his life. Schools like this like to fill their classes with kids who have had varied life experiences since a big part of a college education is what you learn from your fellow students.

In addition, the parent could prove be a useful resource for the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's entirely possible for someone to get in on the basis of an invented sob story that isn't checked. Recently read essays for a scholarship in my home town and people wrote about their dad the heroin addict and their identical twin that died and people in jail and refugees in camps and rafts and honestly a lot of it is compelling but we don't verify it and some of it could be fiction. The question is how many people are unscrupulous enough to invent a family tragedy or claim they have cancer etc. I think there are more sociopaths in our midst than we suspect.

And you are pulling this right out of your bottom. There is no evidence to believe what you believe.

Not saying a kid can't lie on his essays -- but you forget about references, relationships with GCs, and you ignore how hard adcoms - particularly at the ivies where there is so much scrutiny -- work to admit the right kids. I guarantee you not only can they spot BS after readying tens of thousands of essays, they know when they have to check and when they don't. Takes one phone call.

I'm the teacher who wrote about the student whose parents bribed and bullied to ensure their child got the grades and recs he needed (plus, they lied in the essay). 1. It was very easy for them to pay the teachers and counsellors to do this. This was an international school where the US/UK teachers received plus packages and the "local hires" received the equivalent of $500 per month, and local hires taught some core subject classes. I am sure there were some US/UK teachers who accepted the bribe money in that case as well, and I am sure there are also teachers in the US who would give grades or recs for enough money. 2. No, they didn't check to confirm the facts in the essay. I don't know how they could have done this, or what they might have expected for confirmation of this story. 3. The father was a high level diplomat, and I know he had his colleagues supplying reference as well.

The student was high average. He was also mean and disrespectful to teachers and peers, and participated in no extracurriculars in high school. His father got him one internship at the embassy during a summer, and he quit after a week. There were no hooks, and no, I don't think applying from overseas is a hook at all. I have been teaching in international schools for almost 15 years, and every year many students apply to US universities. Ivy acceptances seem to be rarer among these students than they were among the students I taught back when I lived in the US.

And yet they wanted him, so what are you missing? They wanted him over other kids. Are you suggesting he put lies in his essay that got him accepted over others with all else being equal? And you are not being honest yourself because you did not read the essay, now did you?

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY TOOK THAT KID BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE HIM. And you will never understand what the reasons were. To suggest it was because he put something extraordinary yet unverifiable in an essay you didn't even read is -- well, it speaks for itself.

Let it go.

Not pp. Looks like reading is not your strength. The pp mentioned that the parent sent her an email with the essay attached and came next day to offer money to her to edit it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's entirely possible for someone to get in on the basis of an invented sob story that isn't checked. Recently read essays for a scholarship in my home town and people wrote about their dad the heroin addict and their identical twin that died and people in jail and refugees in camps and rafts and honestly a lot of it is compelling but we don't verify it and some of it could be fiction. The question is how many people are unscrupulous enough to invent a family tragedy or claim they have cancer etc. I think there are more sociopaths in our midst than we suspect.

And you are pulling this right out of your bottom. There is no evidence to believe what you believe.

Not saying a kid can't lie on his essays -- but you forget about references, relationships with GCs, and you ignore how hard adcoms - particularly at the ivies where there is so much scrutiny -- work to admit the right kids. I guarantee you not only can they spot BS after readying tens of thousands of essays, they know when they have to check and when they don't. Takes one phone call.

I'm the teacher who wrote about the student whose parents bribed and bullied to ensure their child got the grades and recs he needed (plus, they lied in the essay). 1. It was very easy for them to pay the teachers and counsellors to do this. This was an international school where the US/UK teachers received plus packages and the "local hires" received the equivalent of $500 per month, and local hires taught some core subject classes. I am sure there were some US/UK teachers who accepted the bribe money in that case as well, and I am sure there are also teachers in the US who would give grades or recs for enough money. 2. No, they didn't check to confirm the facts in the essay. I don't know how they could have done this, or what they might have expected for confirmation of this story. 3. The father was a high level diplomat, and I know he had his colleagues supplying reference as well.

The student was high average. He was also mean and disrespectful to teachers and peers, and participated in no extracurriculars in high school. His father got him one internship at the embassy during a summer, and he quit after a week. There were no hooks, and no, I don't think applying from overseas is a hook at all. I have been teaching in international schools for almost 15 years, and every year many students apply to US universities. Ivy acceptances seem to be rarer among these students than they were among the students I taught back when I lived in the US.

And yet they wanted him, so what are you missing? They wanted him over other kids. Are you suggesting he put lies in his essay that got him accepted over others with all else being equal? And you are not being honest yourself because you did not read the essay, now did you?

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY TOOK THAT KID BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE HIM. And you will never understand what the reasons were. To suggest it was because he put something extraordinary yet unverifiable in an essay you didn't even read is -- well, it speaks for itself.

Let it go.

Not pp. Looks like reading is not your strength. The pp mentioned that the parent sent her an email with the essay attached and came next day to offer money to her to edit it.

Oh you mean 5 pages back?

Yeah, I had to go look it up. And yes, it is there, and no, I had not read that. For you to insinuate I lack comprehension because I didn't read and associate a fact 5 pages back makes you kind of petulant and dishonest, don't you think? (hint: yes it does)

It also does not change the fact that PP has no idea why they admitted that kid, and never will. Another poster pointed out his dad is a diplomat and may have friends who are patrons or trustees of Brown. It doesn't really matter either way, because the things that matter are this:

- Getting admitted to an ivy with mediocre stats by lying on your essay is not a regular thing, and you should not try it or be bitter about it.
- A teacher bitterly revealing these "facts" and opinions after admission indicates a bitter, misguided, and flawed person who should not be in that profession and cannot be trusted.

This has no bearing on whether or not this student deserved admission to Brown. I don't know and neither do you.

[Anonymous]

I feel like folks in these threads have never been around very many Ivy alums. Many (most?) Ivy alums are really unimpressive and often live very average lives. And unless you're in the rich "in" crowd before college, you're not likely to penetrate it on campus. Your dorky overachiever middle class kid will very likely fall in with the dorky overachiever middle class nobodies. Then your kid will very likely marry a state schooler. Stop trying to live through your kids--this creepy obsession with Ivies and how they're THE ticket to mobility, a path high status and decadence, is not only delusional, it's sad.

[Anonymous]

Isn’t David Hogg attend Harvard after being rejected by San Diego State University? What does that tell you?