AMC8

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, you would think that was obvious and then you have the parents that keep responding with "I disagree, my genius got a 19 without any practice." Remember, this all started with someone asking if a 6th grader getting a 10 was a good score or not and people trying to put it in perspective that level of math and practice are what really affect scores.

As someone who has coached math competition teams, I think both you and the PP are oversimplifying a bit. Natural aptitude does matter, too. I coached kids who were not otherwise receiving any outside math. Some caught on very quickly and earned reasonably decent scores. Others practiced just as much and didn't do very well. Based on my school's results, a typical AAP 6th grader in no outside math tutoring and with no practice generally scores around a 6-8. I don't think anyone at my school has ever scored 15+ who wasn't taking outside math classes or participating in a math club.

That being said, I agree more with you than the PP. Kids do not make the AMC Honor roll without some sort of training, and parents who claim that their kid has done so are being disingenuous. They might not specifically train for AMC, but they are doing AoPS, RSM, alcumus, or something like that. Frequently, they are specifically training for mathcounts. People seem to be too obsessed with "natural aptitude" and not enough with hard work, to the point that they're always distorting their child's accomplishments in a way that overinflates the kid's "natural ability" and disrespects all of the hard work the child put into winning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, you would think that was obvious and then you have the parents that keep responding with "I disagree, my genius got a 19 without any practice." Remember, this all started with someone asking if a 6th grader getting a 10 was a good score or not and people trying to put it in perspective that level of math and practice are what really affect scores.

As someone who has coached math competition teams, I think both you and the PP are oversimplifying a bit. Natural aptitude does matter, too. I coached kids who were not otherwise receiving any outside math. Some caught on very quickly and earned reasonably decent scores. Others practiced just as much and didn't do very well. Based on my school's results, a typical AAP 6th grader in no outside math tutoring and with no practice generally scores around a 6-8. I don't think anyone at my school has ever scored 15+ who wasn't taking outside math classes or participating in a math club.

That being said, I agree more with you than the PP. Kids do not make the AMC Honor roll without some sort of training, and parents who claim that their kid has done so are being disingenuous. They might not specifically train for AMC, but they are doing AoPS, RSM, alcumus, or something like that. Frequently, they are specifically training for mathcounts. People seem to be too obsessed with "natural aptitude" and not enough with hard work, to the point that they're always distorting their child's accomplishments in a way that overinflates the kid's "natural ability" and disrespects all of the hard work the child put into winning.

So well said. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Math coach here again.
Here are some interesting stats:
Last year, 16 kids in VA from 4-6th grade made the AMC 8 top 5% list (1 4th, 3 5th, and 12 6th).
This year, only 10 VA 4th-6th graders made the top 5% list (3 5th and 7 6th).

Making it on the top 5% honor roll is quite rare for FCPS elementary students, and it's almost certain that all of those kids are practicing and taking outside math classes.

Also, since the VA honor rolls from last year and this year seem pretty consistent, cheating was probably not a large factor this year.

[Anonymous]

I agree. Well said, coach.

I also enjoyed looking at the statistics. I think it’s pretty clear the kids who did test this year were about twice as likely to score above the usual average.

So for example. In 2018, 100,000 kids took the test and maybe 200 scored a 21 This year 50,000 kids took the test but still about 200 scored a 21. However on the flip side in 2018, 10,000 kids scored a 9 but this year only 5,000 kids did.

I think this year only the motivated kids tested which made it a tad harder to get DHR or HR. I do not think cheating was anymore a factor this year.

[Anonymous]

Can you take it as an elementary school student? A homeschooler? How?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you take it as an elementary school student? A homeschooler? How?

No. Unless your school offers (which most do not) you have to register through a competition manager. Usually at aops or RSM etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you take it as an elementary school student? A homeschooler? How?[/quote
If your school doesn't offer it, you can usually take it through Fairfax math circle, FCAG, AoPS, RSM, or you can contact any of the schools that are offering it and see if they'll let your child sign up.

The MAA website lets you search by zipcode for every school or organization administering the exam.
https://amc-reg.maa.org/amc_external/SchoolSearchByZipCode.aspx

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, you would think that was obvious and then you have the parents that keep responding with "I disagree, my genius got a 19 without any practice." Remember, this all started with someone asking if a 6th grader getting a 10 was a good score or not and people trying to put it in perspective that level of math and practice are what really affect scores.

As someone who has coached math competition teams, I think both you and the PP are oversimplifying a bit. Natural aptitude does matter, too. I coached kids who were not otherwise receiving any outside math. Some caught on very quickly and earned reasonably decent scores. Others practiced just as much and didn't do very well. Based on my school's results, a typical AAP 6th grader in no outside math tutoring and with no practice generally scores around a 6-8. I don't think anyone at my school has ever scored 15+ who wasn't taking outside math classes or participating in a math club.

That being said, I agree more with you than the PP. Kids do not make the AMC Honor roll without some sort of training, and parents who claim that their kid has done so are being disingenuous. They might not specifically train for AMC, but they are doing AoPS, RSM, alcumus, or something like that. Frequently, they are specifically training for mathcounts. People seem to be too obsessed with "natural aptitude" and not enough with hard work, to the point that they're always distorting their child's accomplishments in a way that overinflates the kid's "natural ability" and disrespects all of the hard work the child put into winning.

So well said. Thank you.

I think this is a sound take that is largely true. There will be exceptions (and I have absolutely seen one) but all in all, agreed with the teacher PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, you would think that was obvious and then you have the parents that keep responding with "I disagree, my genius got a 19 without any practice." Remember, this all started with someone asking if a 6th grader getting a 10 was a good score or not and people trying to put it in perspective that level of math and practice are what really affect scores.

As someone who has coached math competition teams, I think both you and the PP are oversimplifying a bit. Natural aptitude does matter, too. I coached kids who were not otherwise receiving any outside math. Some caught on very quickly and earned reasonably decent scores. Others practiced just as much and didn't do very well. Based on my school's results, a typical AAP 6th grader in no outside math tutoring and with no practice generally scores around a 6-8. I don't think anyone at my school has ever scored 15+ who wasn't taking outside math classes or participating in a math club.

That being said, I agree more with you than the PP. Kids do not make the AMC Honor roll without some sort of training, and parents who claim that their kid has done so are being disingenuous. They might not specifically train for AMC, but they are doing AoPS, RSM, alcumus, or something like that. Frequently, they are specifically training for mathcounts. People seem to be too obsessed with "natural aptitude" and not enough with hard work, to the point that they're always distorting their child's accomplishments in a way that overinflates the kid's "natural ability" and disrespects all of the hard work the child put into winning.

So well said. Thank you.

I am the "it's not all about practice" poster. I highly doubt you'd get an 11 year old to self-study the AoPS sequence if they did not have natural ability. He can do as little or as much math as he wants to, and he self-checks the solutions, too, and has been doing that for a good year. Could we push him further? Of course we could!! But I know MIT is probably not going to be happening for a white upper middle class boy, so I prefer for him to keep the joy in math and learning than to force-feed competition math to make sure that he gets into the absolutely best college he could possibly get into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, you would think that was obvious and then you have the parents that keep responding with "I disagree, my genius got a 19 without any practice." Remember, this all started with someone asking if a 6th grader getting a 10 was a good score or not and people trying to put it in perspective that level of math and practice are what really affect scores.

As someone who has coached math competition teams, I think both you and the PP are oversimplifying a bit. Natural aptitude does matter, too. I coached kids who were not otherwise receiving any outside math. Some caught on very quickly and earned reasonably decent scores. Others practiced just as much and didn't do very well. Based on my school's results, a typical AAP 6th grader in no outside math tutoring and with no practice generally scores around a 6-8. I don't think anyone at my school has ever scored 15+ who wasn't taking outside math classes or participating in a math club.

That being said, I agree more with you than the PP. Kids do not make the AMC Honor roll without some sort of training, and parents who claim that their kid has done so are being disingenuous. They might not specifically train for AMC, but they are doing AoPS, RSM, alcumus, or something like that. Frequently, they are specifically training for mathcounts. People seem to be too obsessed with "natural aptitude" and not enough with hard work, to the point that they're always distorting their child's accomplishments in a way that overinflates the kid's "natural ability" and disrespects all of the hard work the child put into winning.

So well said. Thank you.

I am the "it's not all about practice" poster. I highly doubt you'd get an 11 year old to self-study the AoPS sequence if they did not have natural ability. He can do as little or as much math as he wants to, and he self-checks the solutions, too, and has been doing that for a good year. Could we push him further? Of course we could!! But I know MIT is probably not going to be happening for a white upper middle class boy, so I prefer for him to keep the joy in math and learning than to force-feed competition math to make sure that he gets into the absolutely best college he could possibly get into.

I’m just curious what you are implying with these two statements I bolded above.

Are you trying to delicately say only kids with at a certain level IQ could learn this math at this age? I have no idea if that is true or not. I have a child with no discernible natural math ability but does have a high IQ and self studied aops fine at that age.

Also, you do know the largest demographic at MIT is white male?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I am the "it's not all about practice" poster. I highly doubt you'd get an 11 year old to self-study the AoPS sequence if they did not have natural ability. He can do as little or as much math as he wants to, and he self-checks the solutions, too, and has been doing that for a good year. Could we push him further? Of course we could!! But I know MIT is probably not going to be happening for a white upper middle class boy, so I prefer for him to keep the joy in math and learning than to force-feed competition math to make sure that he gets into the absolutely best college he could possibly get into.

We've already established that only 16 elementary school kids in VA landed in the top 5% of AMC 8 last year. So, your 6th grader with a 20 is in a select group. ALL of the kids there have a strong mixture of passion for math, talent, hard work, and access to the right materials. You don't rise to the top in anything without all of those factors in play, and it's impossible to quantify how much of the success is talent vs. the passion or hard work.

I'm a big believer that "gifted is as gifted does." Your kid is achieving at a high level. It shouldn't matter to what degree his success is due to "natural talent" vs. any other factors. Whatever he's doing will carry him far. Be happy. Stop seeking some sort of validation that your kid is super gifted in math and instead celebrate his achievements.

The reason people are jumping on you is that you are being disingenuous about all of the other factors contributing to your child's success. AoPS books are designed to teach problem solving skills and include many AMC problems from previous years. Studying AoPS at all is a huge advantage for AMCs, even if your kid didn't specifically train on practice tests. By minimizing your child's work and training from AoPS and emphasizing your child's "natural ability", you're basically insisting that your kid is much smarter than kids who didn't earn as high of a score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I am the "it's not all about practice" poster. I highly doubt you'd get an 11 year old to self-study the AoPS sequence if they did not have natural ability. He can do as little or as much math as he wants to, and he self-checks the solutions, too, and has been doing that for a good year. Could we push him further? Of course we could!! But I know MIT is probably not going to be happening for a white upper middle class boy, so I prefer for him to keep the joy in math and learning than to force-feed competition math to make sure that he gets into the absolutely best college he could possibly get into.

We've already established that only 16 elementary school kids in VA landed in the top 5% of AMC 8 last year. So, your 6th grader with a 20 is in a select group. ALL of the kids there have a strong mixture of passion for math, talent, hard work, and access to the right materials. You don't rise to the top in anything without all of those factors in play, and it's impossible to quantify how much of the success is talent vs. the passion or hard work.

I'm a big believer that "gifted is as gifted does." Your kid is achieving at a high level. It shouldn't matter to what degree his success is due to "natural talent" vs. any other factors. Whatever he's doing will carry him far. Be happy. Stop seeking some sort of validation that your kid is super gifted in math and instead celebrate his achievements.

The reason people are jumping on you is that you are being disingenuous about all of the other factors contributing to your child's success. AoPS books are designed to teach problem solving skills and include many AMC problems from previous years. Studying AoPS at all is a huge advantage for AMCs, even if your kid didn't specifically train on practice tests. By minimizing your child's work and training from AoPS and emphasizing your child's "natural ability", you're basically insisting that your kid is much smarter than kids who didn't earn as high of a score.

Welcome to DCUM. This is literally what happens in every thread in the AAP section - some parent has to come on here and tell us what a genius their kid is and how he/she never preps and they don't push him/her at all and they are just better than our kids and they are the best at everything. Literally every thread. Although, hats off to the parent of the 4th grader that made the top 5% of AMC 8.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Welcome to DCUM. This is literally what happens in every thread in the AAP section - some parent has to come on here and tell us what a genius their kid is and how he/she never preps and they don't push him/her at all and they are just better than our kids and they are the best at everything. Literally every thread. Although, hats off to the parent of the 4th grader that made the top 5% of AMC 8.

Heh. It all reminds me of the people who insist that their kid earned a high score on CogAT without prep, but when you push them, they admit that they did a workbook and some online problems "just to get familiarity with the test format."

Why "hats off to the parent?" Congratulating a parent for a kid's achievement leads to the annoying bragging on forums like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Welcome to DCUM. This is literally what happens in every thread in the AAP section - some parent has to come on here and tell us what a genius their kid is and how he/she never preps and they don't push him/her at all and they are just better than our kids and they are the best at everything. Literally every thread. Although, hats off to the parent of the 4th grader that made the top 5% of AMC 8.

Heh. It all reminds me of the people who insist that their kid earned a high score on CogAT without prep, but when you push them, they admit that they did a workbook and some online problems "just to get familiarity with the test format."

Why "hats off to the parent?" Congratulating a parent for a kid's achievement leads to the annoying bragging on forums like this.

A failed attempt at a satirical point in being awed by the patent as opposed to the kid even though it’s the kid’s accomplishment ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Welcome to DCUM. This is literally what happens in every thread in the AAP section - some parent has to come on here and tell us what a genius their kid is and how he/she never preps and they don't push him/her at all and they are just better than our kids and they are the best at everything. Literally every thread. Although, hats off to the parent of the 4th grader that made the top 5% of AMC 8.

Heh. It all reminds me of the people who insist that their kid earned a high score on CogAT without prep, but when you push them, they admit that they did a workbook and some online problems "just to get familiarity with the test format."

Why "hats off to the parent?" Congratulating a parent for a kid's achievement leads to the annoying bragging on forums like this.

A failed attempt at a satirical point in being awed by the patent as opposed to the kid even though it’s the kid’s accomplishment ...

I got it. I've been on this forum for a long time and totally get what you were aiming for. Now let me tell you how great my kid is ...