AMC8

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see blatant evidence of cheating looking at the statistics.

They said it was the hardest test in the history of the AMC 8, yet the minimum score for the Honor Roll is 18 this year. Last year it was 17. That is one statistic, harder test yet higher scores, that would indicate cheating.

Maybe, but here's one other statistic: Last year, around 92,000 kids took the test. This year, 53,000 took it. It is likely that most of the kids who are high performers and are capable of making an honor roll found a way to enroll in the test. Many of the bottom kids who normally would have taken the test didn't this year. The honor rolls are based on percentile rank, so there are fewer "slots" on each honor roll this year compared to previous years.

As an example, my kids' elementary AAP center has all 100+ kids in 6th grade advanced math take the AMC 8. Only about 5 kids have any chance of making an honor roll. This year, they didn't offer it. Those 5 kids all took the test at other schools, AOPS, Fairfax math circle, or somewhere else. The other 95+ kids who were going to have lower scores didn't bother taking it this year.

Top 1% this year >21
Top 1% last year >23
That does suggest the test was harder than previous years.

Wait. So if the test was harder and only the brightest took it, shouldn't the top 1% be a higher score since it is fewer kids out of a more selective pool?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Top 1% this year >21
Top 1% last year >23
That does suggest the test was harder than previous years.

Wait. So if the test was harder and only the brightest took it, shouldn't the top 1% be a higher score since it is fewer kids out of a more selective pool?

The exam difficulty is not consistent from year to year. The test in 2019 was a very easy test. The 2020 test was much harder and was very comparable in difficulty to 2018, where the top 1% cutoff was a 19+. Most of the kids I know had slightly lower scores this year than last year, even after gaining a year of practice and knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Half the kids who normally take the AMC 8 took it this year. It is most likely the case that the strongest math kids still took the test while kids who would bring the honor roll score down a bit did not. As far as perfect scores or DHR the statistics show no sign of widespread cheating like we saw with MK. It was easier than 2018 but harder than 2019 but not by a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Half the kids who normally take the AMC 8 took it this year. It is most likely the case that the strongest math kids still took the test while kids who would bring the honor roll score down a bit did not. As far as perfect scores or DHR the statistics show no sign of widespread cheating like we saw with MK. It was easier than 2018 but harder than 2019 but not by a lot.

The consensus on the AoPS forums among the kids who have taken all 3 tests is that it was much harder than 2019 and very similar to 2018. It was much more tricky and time consumptive than AMC8 tests usually are.

My kid got 20 last year, studied a lot of contest math over the last year, and only got a 19 this year. I know of 10+ kids who got the same or lower scores this year and only one who scored higher compared to last year.

[Anonymous]

If my 6th grader got a 10, is that a bad score?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If my 6th grader got a 10, is that a bad score?

It’s in the top half of competitors, although barely so. One thing to keep in mind is that the kids taking these tests are generally quite good at math. There’s no shame at all in being toward the middle of the pack compared to other kids who are also smart and very advanced in math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If my 6th grader got a 10, is that a bad score?

Math is entirely all about practice. The children who get good scores in these tests practice a lot.

If your child takes the test without much practice, he/she would not get a good score. The important thing is not equate this with smartness or their inclination towards math. I see kids compare and label themselves as good or bad and it really hurts the kids who think they are bad.

My child does a lot of practice and he gets close to full score. It is painful to see friends label the child as smart - both my child as it creates unnecessary belief in their own smartness and their kid who labels himself as poor in math and becomes convinced that there is no use practicing much.

Whatever you do, do not compare. No bad score, it just means did not practice much.

[Anonymous]

AMC8 is also a very fast test. Kids have only 1.6 minutes per problem, and the problems are much more complicated than what they've seen in school. Many kids aren't used to solving problems so quickly. If they haven't practiced solving quickly, they'll run out of time halfway through the test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my 6th grader got a 10, is that a bad score?

Math is entirely all about practice. The children who get good scores in these tests practice a lot.

If your child takes the test without much practice, he/she would not get a good score. The important thing is not equate this with smartness or their inclination towards math. I see kids compare and label themselves as good or bad and it really hurts the kids who think they are bad.

My child does a lot of practice and he gets close to full score. It is painful to see friends label the child as smart - both my child as it creates unnecessary belief in their own smartness and their kid who labels himself as poor in math and becomes convinced that there is no use practicing much.

Whatever you do, do not compare. No bad score, it just means did not practice much.

I don't believe it's entirely about practice. A kid good at math will be able to do well without practice. My 6th grader took an AMC 8 without any practice and scored around 20. He also scored in the top 10% of the AMC 10 test. Of course, there is no doubt that practice helps, especially with respect to speed (and probably type of problem).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't believe it's entirely about practice. A kid good at math will be able to do well without practice. My 6th grader took an AMC 8 without any practice and scored around 20. He also scored in the top 10% of the AMC 10 test. Of course, there is no doubt that practice helps, especially with respect to speed (and probably type of problem).

+1. Kids who are very good at math can earn high scores without much practice. The flipside is also true: On the AoPS forums, there are many kids who practice quite a lot for the AMC and Mathcounts tests, yet fail to earn high scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my 6th grader got a 10, is that a bad score?

Math is entirely all about practice. The children who get good scores in these tests practice a lot.

If your child takes the test without much practice, he/she would not get a good score. The important thing is not equate this with smartness or their inclination towards math. I see kids compare and label themselves as good or bad and it really hurts the kids who think they are bad.

My child does a lot of practice and he gets close to full score. It is painful to see friends label the child as smart - both my child as it creates unnecessary belief in their own smartness and their kid who labels himself as poor in math and becomes convinced that there is no use practicing much.

Whatever you do, do not compare. No bad score, it just means did not practice much.

I don't believe it's entirely about practice. A kid good at math will be able to do well without practice. My 6th grader took an AMC 8 without any practice and scored around 20. He also scored in the top 10% of the AMC 10 test. Of course, there is no doubt that practice helps, especially with respect to speed (and probably type of problem).

People hate when parents come on here to brag. There were only three 6th graders in all of VA that scored a 20 last year and then only another 4 or 5 that scored 21 or better (a 5th grader at BASIS in McLean got a perfect 25). Practice makes a big difference. That's why math teams have a coach and practice. What also makes a difference is what level of math your child is in at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't believe it's entirely about practice. A kid good at math will be able to do well without practice. My 6th grader took an AMC 8 without any practice and scored around 20. He also scored in the top 10% of the AMC 10 test. Of course, there is no doubt that practice helps, especially with respect to speed (and probably type of problem).

People hate when parents come on here to brag. There were only three 6th graders in all of VA that scored a 20 last year and then only another 4 or 5 that scored 21 or better (a 5th grader at BASIS in McLean got a perfect 25). Practice makes a big difference. That's why math teams have a coach and practice. What also makes a difference is what level of math your child is in at the time.

+1 And I bet that smart kid has already taken Algebra already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

People hate when parents come on here to brag. There were only three 6th graders in all of VA that scored a 20 last year and then only another 4 or 5 that scored 21 or better (a 5th grader at BASIS in McLean got a perfect 25). Practice makes a big difference. That's why math teams have a coach and practice. What also makes a difference is what level of math your child is in at the time.

+1 And I bet that smart kid has already taken Algebra already.

This. Taking Algebra is a big advantage. Taking Geometry is a huge one for AMC 8. Only being in pre-Algebra isn't going to cut it for solving most of the problems. I bet all of the 4th-6th graders who made Honor roll on AMC 8 are at least taking Algebra I somewhere. If not at school, then they're doing it at RSM, AoPS, or Chinese school. It's impressive, but not *that* impressive for a younger kid to make the AMC8 Honor roll when the kid is already taking Algebra or Geometry, and the kid is part of a strong math coaching system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't believe it's entirely about practice. A kid good at math will be able to do well without practice. My 6th grader took an AMC 8 without any practice and scored around 20. He also scored in the top 10% of the AMC 10 test. Of course, there is no doubt that practice helps, especially with respect to speed (and probably type of problem).

People hate when parents come on here to brag. There were only three 6th graders in all of VA that scored a 20 last year and then only another 4 or 5 that scored 21 or better (a 5th grader at BASIS in McLean got a perfect 25). Practice makes a big difference. That's why math teams have a coach and practice. What also makes a difference is what level of math your child is in at the time.

+1 And I bet that smart kid has already taken Algebra already.

I am the "it's not all about practice" poster. Yes, my 6th grade kid finished the AoPS Intro to Algebra and Counting and Prob books on his own last year, and is doing their Geometry book (also on his own) now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
+1 And I bet that smart kid has already taken Algebra already.

I am the "it's not all about practice" poster. Yes, my 6th grade kid finished the AoPS Intro to Algebra and Counting and Prob books on his own last year, and is doing their Geometry book (also on his own) now.

Thanks for sharing the background. "On his own" is very impressive. More impressive to me than his AMC score. My 6th grader just finished Algebra A online course well (i.e., blue bars every week), but I had to prod her to "read the book". That is a huge difference.