AMC8

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Curious why would a kid cheats in test like this. What would be the gain out there...just to show off?! I don’t quite understand the motivation.

I don't know why kids cheat, but as someone who has proctored for math contests, I can assure you that many kids do cheat. They peek at each other's papers, use hand signals to try to give their friends the answers, sometimes even talk to each other about the test during the test, smuggle in calculators, flip the test and start before it's time, and keep working after time is up. I would guess that they want to please their parents or look good to their peers. Some of these, like taking too much time, wouldn't be possible on AMC 8, but kids could easily have been talking or sharing answers during the test.

Also, the math kangaroo results from last year demonstrate pretty clearly that apparently many parents will help their kids cheat. They ended up with over 10 times as many perfect scores on the online test than they did with the regular tests. I don't know why parents would help their lower elementary kids cheat on a completely trivial contest like Math Kangaroo, but the numbers don't lie.

For AMC 8, people on this forum have already suggested that a high score should help a TJ application. I can easily picture people cheating if they think a higher score will help them get into selective programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curious why would a kid cheats in test like this. What would be the gain out there...just to show off?! I don’t quite understand the motivation.

I don't know why kids cheat, but as someone who has proctored for math contests, I can assure you that many kids do cheat. They peek at each other's papers, use hand signals to try to give their friends the answers, sometimes even talk to each other about the test during the test, smuggle in calculators, flip the test and start before it's time, and keep working after time is up. I would guess that they want to please their parents or look good to their peers. Some of these, like taking too much time, wouldn't be possible on AMC 8, but kids could easily have been talking or sharing answers during the test.

Also, the math kangaroo results from last year demonstrate pretty clearly that apparently many parents will help their kids cheat. They ended up with over 10 times as many perfect scores on the online test than they did with the regular tests. I don't know why parents would help their lower elementary kids cheat on a completely trivial contest like Math Kangaroo, but the numbers don't lie.

For AMC 8, people on this forum have already suggested that a high score should help a TJ application. I can easily picture people cheating if they think a higher score will help them get into selective programs.

Thanks for sharing what happened with math kangaroo . Sigh It is hard for me to understand some would be willing to cheat or help cheat in order to get a high score for school admission purpose (TJ or college). It is such a bad way of winning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curious why would a kid cheats in test like this. What would be the gain out there...just to show off?! I don’t quite understand the motivation.

I don't know why kids cheat, but as someone who has proctored for math contests, I can assure you that many kids do cheat. They peek at each other's papers, use hand signals to try to give their friends the answers, sometimes even talk to each other about the test during the test, smuggle in calculators, flip the test and start before it's time, and keep working after time is up. I would guess that they want to please their parents or look good to their peers. Some of these, like taking too much time, wouldn't be possible on AMC 8, but kids could easily have been talking or sharing answers during the test.

Also, the math kangaroo results from last year demonstrate pretty clearly that apparently many parents will help their kids cheat. They ended up with over 10 times as many perfect scores on the online test than they did with the regular tests. I don't know why parents would help their lower elementary kids cheat on a completely trivial contest like Math Kangaroo, but the numbers don't lie.

For AMC 8, people on this forum have already suggested that a high score should help a TJ application. I can easily picture people cheating if they think a higher score will help them get into selective programs.

Thanks for sharing what happened with math kangaroo . Sigh It is hard for me to understand some would be willing to cheat or help cheat in order to get a high score for school admission purpose (TJ or college). It is such a bad way of winning.

Ugh. I can understand kids having the desire to cheat and going through with it. They’re kids. But parents helping them cheat has got to be one of the most f’ed up things I’ve heard. Sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thanks for sharing what happened with math kangaroo . Sigh It is hard for me to understand some would be willing to cheat or help cheat in order to get a high score for school admission purpose (TJ or college). It is such a bad way of winning.

Ugh. I can understand kids having the desire to cheat and going through with it. They’re kids. But parents helping them cheat has got to be one of the most f’ed up things I’ve heard. Sad.

PP who has proctored for math contests here: I agree completely. If you help your kids cheat, the one and only thing you're teaching them is that they aren't smart enough or capable enough to do well on their own merits. Also, AMC 8, Math Kangaroo, MOEMS, CML, Mathleague, and any other contest given to elementary or middle school kids aside from Mathcounts are low-stakes contests that really are just practice for the important contests later, like MathCounts or AMC 10/12. Helping your kid cheat on the low stakes, practice contests just means that your kid is less likely to do well on the more important ones later.

[Anonymous]

For AMC 8 test, it’s all about speed, 40 minutes to complete 25 questions. The time is very tight. Even if the student is fully concentrated on the test, I doubt if he can complete all of them. Does he still have time to cheat?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Curious why would a kid cheats in test like this. What would be the gain out there...just to show off?! I don’t quite understand the motivation.

I don't know why kids cheat, but as someone who has proctored for math contests, I can assure you that many kids do cheat. They peek at each other's papers, use hand signals to try to give their friends the answers, sometimes even talk to each other about the test during the test, smuggle in calculators, flip the test and start before it's time, and keep working after time is up. I would guess that they want to please their parents or look good to their peers. Some of these, like taking too much time, wouldn't be possible on AMC 8, but kids could easily have been talking or sharing answers during the test.

Also, the math kangaroo results from last year demonstrate pretty clearly that apparently many parents will help their kids cheat. They ended up with over 10 times as many perfect scores on the online test than they did with the regular tests. I don't know why parents would help their lower elementary kids cheat on a completely trivial contest like Math Kangaroo, but the numbers don't lie.

For AMC 8, people on this forum have already suggested that a high score should help a TJ application. I can easily picture people cheating if they think a higher score will help them get into selective programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For AMC 8 test, it’s all about speed, 40 minutes to complete 25 questions. The time is very tight. Even if the student is fully concentrated on the test, I doubt if he can complete all of them. Does he still have time to cheat?

I agree with you. It is impossible to cheat on the Amc8 because of the strict time limit.

[Anonymous]

Meh. It would be easy to cheat. Not everyone took the test on the same day at the same time, and the testing window was an entire week. Kids who took the test earlier could share the problems or answers with kids who took the test later in the cycle. Also, if it wasn’t video proctored, parents could have helped with solving the problems.

I’m not suggesting that tons of kids cheated, but I’d take the perfect scorer list and the honor roll lists with a grain of salt.

[Anonymous]

For the math kangaroo contest it wasn't 10 times the amount of perfect scores -it was 187 times just for second grade.

When looking at the results for second grade, in 2019 when it was proctored in a center only 1 (yes, one!) student received a perfect score, while 2 students missed one question. So now in 2020 when give at home there were 187 perfect scores!!!!!!

The administrators of Math Kangaroo were really disappointed and stated that the unusually high number of perfect scores "indicates the possibility of some unfair play". A nice way of saying there were a lot of

[Anonymous]

A lot of cheaters.

[Anonymous]

The same parents who sit next to their kid and help them during iready would help during online math contests. I was disappointed that AMC didn’t require schools to do video proctoring.

[Anonymous]

I think it’s still hard to get perfect score even with parent’s help. I think the majority of parents can’t answer all questions correctly within 40 minutes. Some questions are very tricky.

Anonymous wrote:Meh. It would be easy to cheat. Not everyone took the test on the same day at the same time, and the testing window was an entire week. Kids who took the test earlier could share the problems or answers with kids who took the test later in the cycle. Also, if it wasn’t video proctored, parents could have helped with solving the problems.

I’m not suggesting that tons of kids cheated, but I’d take the perfect scorer list and the honor roll lists with a grain of salt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s still hard to get perfect score even with parent’s help. I think the majority of parents can’t answer all questions correctly within 40 minutes. Some questions are very tricky.

Anonymous wrote:Meh. It would be easy to cheat. Not everyone took the test on the same day at the same time, and the testing window was an entire week. Kids who took the test earlier could share the problems or answers with kids who took the test later in the cycle. Also, if it wasn’t video proctored, parents could have helped with solving the problems.

I’m not suggesting that tons of kids cheated, but I’d take the perfect scorer list and the honor roll lists with a grain of salt.

You don't need a ton of people successfully cheating to skew the results. Last year, 772 kids out of about 92,000 made the top 1% honor roll. If only 1 out of every 200 kids cheated their way to a high score, that would displace over half of the kids who legitimately belong on the top 1% list. I think the same thing happened with Math Kangaroo. The vast majority of people didn't cheat, but the cheaters were able to grossly distort the expected distribution at the high end.

[Anonymous]

I think it’s no more easier to cheat on the AMC 8 this year than any other year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s no more easier to cheat on the AMC 8 this year than any other year.

Parents couldn’t be in the same room as their kids in previous years. This year, they could sit next to their kids and help them while the kid was taking the test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s no more easier to cheat on the AMC 8 this year than any other year.

Parents couldn’t be in the same room as their kids in previous years. This year, they could sit next to their kids and help them while the kid was taking the test.

Most of the tests were proctored by a teacher in my experience. And you could only see one question at a time on the screen. My 12yo would have flipped out if I tried to help her answer, and I’m probably not much better than her especially because the speed element. We would have been working against each other. Very few kids have parents who are A.) Willing to cheat and B.) Able to make a difference. And like I said most kids are proctored by a teacher watching over zoom. A parent would not be able to help in that situation.

The only way to cheat is same as any other year—obtain answers before you test is given. This may happen in competitive areas at competence math clubs. But in my experience kids are taking this for fun.

Math kangaroo was different because the kids are younger and the questions are so easy. At least that’s my theory.