AMC8

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1 And I bet that smart kid has already taken Algebra already.

I am the "it's not all about practice" poster. Yes, my 6th grade kid finished the AoPS Intro to Algebra and Counting and Prob books on his own last year, and is doing their Geometry book (also on his own) now.

Thanks for sharing the background. "On his own" is very impressive. More impressive to me than his AMC score. My 6th grader just finished Algebra A online course well (i.e., blue bars every week), but I had to prod her to "read the book". That is a huge difference.

You realize that's basically practice. Doing math problems outside the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
+1 And I bet that smart kid has already taken Algebra already.

I am the "it's not all about practice" poster. Yes, my 6th grade kid finished the AoPS Intro to Algebra and Counting and Prob books on his own last year, and is doing their Geometry book (also on his own) now.

Thanks for sharing the background. "On his own" is very impressive. More impressive to me than his AMC score. My 6th grader just finished Algebra A online course well (i.e., blue bars every week), but I had to prod her to "read the book". That is a huge difference.

You realize that's basically practice. Doing math problems outside the classroom.

Stop feeding the braggart's ego. We can never have a thread in the AAP forum without someone trying to slip in how great and brilliant there kids are and don't prep, practice, or whatever and get the top scores in everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thanks for sharing the background. "On his own" is very impressive. More impressive to me than his AMC score. My 6th grader just finished Algebra A online course well (i.e., blue bars every week), but I had to prod her to "read the book". That is a huge difference.

You realize that's basically practice. Doing math problems outside the classroom.

DP. Then it's more about love of math than it is anything else. It would be nearly impossible to get a kid to self study the entire AoPS Algebra and Counting&Probability books in 6th grade, and then get high level results on math competitions if the kid wasn't passionate about math. The kids forced into math by their parents tend to do well on early math competitions, but they're not going to keep up with the kids who love math and are eager to soak up any new concepts.

My own kid has made both the Honor and Achievement rolls the last two years for AMC 8. He also spends tons of time on Alcumus and the AoPS forums doing math problems. Over this winter break, he's mocked an old AMC 10 test almost every single day, because he really wants to qualify for AIME or at least make AMC 10 Honor roll this year. Yes, he has technically practiced much more math than most other kids. Nothing is preventing those kids from practicing the math, also, as Alcumus and old AMC tests are available for free online. The big difference is that my kid is more motivated and more passionate about math than the kids who aren't practicing.

For what it's worth, I think very few kids would be capable of independently learning AoPS level math classes, and obviously not all kids have the same natural math aptitude. AMC 8 is an oddball contest in that kids who are bright, but not outrageously so, can still earn awards by practicing a lot of math. AMC 10 and beyond, simply practicing a lot won't cut it, and the kid needs both the practice and very high levels of math aptitude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Thanks for sharing the background. "On his own" is very impressive. More impressive to me than his AMC score. My 6th grader just finished Algebra A online course well (i.e., blue bars every week), but I had to prod her to "read the book". That is a huge difference.

You realize that's basically practice. Doing math problems outside the classroom.

DP. Then it's more about love of math than it is anything else. It would be nearly impossible to get a kid to self study the entire AoPS Algebra and Counting&Probability books in 6th grade, and then get high level results on math competitions if the kid wasn't passionate about math. The kids forced into math by their parents tend to do well on early math competitions, but they're not going to keep up with the kids who love math and are eager to soak up any new concepts.

My own kid has made both the Honor and Achievement rolls the last two years for AMC 8. He also spends tons of time on Alcumus and the AoPS forums doing math problems. Over this winter break, he's mocked an old AMC 10 test almost every single day, because he really wants to qualify for AIME or at least make AMC 10 Honor roll this year. Yes, he has technically practiced much more math than most other kids. Nothing is preventing those kids from practicing the math, also, as Alcumus and old AMC tests are available for free online. The big difference is that my kid is more motivated and more passionate about math than the kids who aren't practicing.

For what it's worth, I think very few kids would be capable of independently learning AoPS level math classes, and obviously not all kids have the same natural math aptitude. AMC 8 is an oddball contest in that kids who are bright, but not outrageously so, can still earn awards by practicing a lot of math. AMC 10 and beyond, simply practicing a lot won't cut it, and the kid needs both the practice and very high levels of math aptitude.

Now you are changing your story. It started out with you saying "I don't believe it's entirely about practice. A kid good at math will be able to do well without practice. My 6th grader took an AMC 8 without any practice and scored around 20. He also scored in the top 10% of the AMC 10 test. Of course, there is no doubt that practice helps, especially with respect to speed (and probably type of problem)." You made it sound like he was born good at math and some kids are just good at math. Now you talk about his passion and pursuit of math. Very different. It's like saying some kids are just better at skiing then other kids and your kid is a great skier and doesn't practice. Then we find out all meant was he doesn't have a full time coach but skiis all the time. I think the takeway is what level of math you are in and how much you practice problem solving make a huge difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DP. Then it's more about love of math than it is anything else. It would be nearly impossible to get a kid to self study the entire AoPS Algebra and Counting&Probability books in 6th grade, and then get high level results on math competitions if the kid wasn't passionate about math. The kids forced into math by their parents tend to do well on early math competitions, but they're not going to keep up with the kids who love math and are eager to soak up any new concepts.

My own kid has made both the Honor and Achievement rolls the last two years for AMC 8. He also spends tons of time on Alcumus and the AoPS forums doing math problems. Over this winter break, he's mocked an old AMC 10 test almost every single day, because he really wants to qualify for AIME or at least make AMC 10 Honor roll this year. Yes, he has technically practiced much more math than most other kids. Nothing is preventing those kids from practicing the math, also, as Alcumus and old AMC tests are available for free online. The big difference is that my kid is more motivated and more passionate about math than the kids who aren't practicing.

For what it's worth, I think very few kids would be capable of independently learning AoPS level math classes, and obviously not all kids have the same natural math aptitude. AMC 8 is an oddball contest in that kids who are bright, but not outrageously so, can still earn awards by practicing a lot of math. AMC 10 and beyond, simply practicing a lot won't cut it, and the kid needs both the practice and very high levels of math aptitude.

Now you are changing your story. It started out with you saying "I don't believe it's entirely about practice. A kid good at math will be able to do well without practice. My 6th grader took an AMC 8 without any practice and scored around 20. He also scored in the top 10% of the AMC 10 test. Of course, there is no doubt that practice helps, especially with respect to speed (and probably type of problem)." You made it sound like he was born good at math and some kids are just good at math. Now you talk about his passion and pursuit of math. Very different. It's like saying some kids are just better at skiing then other kids and your kid is a great skier and doesn't practice. Then we find out all meant was he doesn't have a full time coach but skiis all the time. I think the takeway is what level of math you are in and how much you practice problem solving make a huge difference.

DP = Different Poster. The poster with the math passionate kid (me) is not the same poster as the parent of the 6th grader.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my 6th grader got a 10, is that a bad score?

Math is entirely all about practice. The children who get good scores in these tests practice a lot.

If your child takes the test without much practice, he/she would not get a good score. The important thing is not equate this with smartness or their inclination towards math. I see kids compare and label themselves as good or bad and it really hurts the kids who think they are bad.

My child does a lot of practice and he gets close to full score. It is painful to see friends label the child as smart - both my child as it creates unnecessary belief in their own smartness and their kid who labels himself as poor in math and becomes convinced that there is no use practicing much.

Whatever you do, do not compare. No bad score, it just means did not practice much.

I agree.

It is entirely about practice. I have a child who likes math alright. I would not say she’s passionate. She is in algebra II as a 7th grader though. She’s not in aops academy, Russian school, or kumon or any other math club either online or in person. She has no private tutor. She has never taken the AMC before and only decided to this year because it was easy to do online. Anyway, my point is starting in September she practiced old AMC 8s. She started out getting 11 and 12 (this even with math through geometry at that point) and then by November she was scoring 20ish. She scored a 17 on this year’s.

It just takes practice. There are very similar questions on each year’s tests. I guess you start to figure it out with practice. If you had a teacher explaining the tricks to you like at a math club it would likely be even easier to raise your score. And time is a huge factor. She simply runs out of time.

It’s very similar to skiing. Competent skiing and competitive math are both small communities st this age. The kids who practice most are the ones doing well. And you will say “no, my kid is actually gifted in math and has passion”. Maybe, but he’s also practicing a lot. So there you go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my 6th grader got a 10, is that a bad score?

Math is entirely all about practice. The children who get good scores in these tests practice a lot.

If your child takes the test without much practice, he/she would not get a good score. The important thing is not equate this with smartness or their inclination towards math. I see kids compare and label themselves as good or bad and it really hurts the kids who think they are bad.

My child does a lot of practice and he gets close to full score. It is painful to see friends label the child as smart - both my child as it creates unnecessary belief in their own smartness and their kid who labels himself as poor in math and becomes convinced that there is no use practicing much.

Whatever you do, do not compare. No bad score, it just means did not practice much.

I agree.

It is entirely about practice. I have a child who likes math alright. I would not say she’s passionate. She is in algebra II as a 7th grader though. She’s not in aops academy, Russian school, or kumon or any other math club either online or in person. She has no private tutor. She has never taken the AMC before and only decided to this year because it was easy to do online. Anyway, my point is starting in September she practiced old AMC 8s. She started out getting 11 and 12 (this even with math through geometry at that point) and then by November she was scoring 20ish. She scored a 17 on this year’s.

It just takes practice. There are very similar questions on each year’s tests. I guess you start to figure it out with practice. If you had a teacher explaining the tricks to you like at a math club it would likely be even easier to raise your score. And time is a huge factor. She simply runs out of time.

It’s very similar to skiing. Competent skiing and competitive math are both small communities st this age. The kids who practice most are the ones doing well. And you will say “no, my kid is actually gifted in math and has passion”. Maybe, but he’s also practicing a lot. So there you go.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It’s very similar to skiing. Competent skiing and competitive math are both small communities st this age. The kids who practice most are the ones doing well. And you will say “no, my kid is actually gifted in math and has passion”. Maybe, but he’s also practicing a lot. So there you go.

Competitive math is NOT a small community at the middle school level. Mathcounts is huge, AMC 8 typically has around 100,000 competitors, and there are MANY tutoring centers and programs specific to contest math.

Aside from that, I agree with you. Whether it's scoring highly on a math contest, a getting solo in the orchestra, being a starter on an elite travel soccer team, or even winning the spelling bee, the key is lots of practice. No one in a highly competitive area like the DC area is earning any awards or high placements on anything without putting in the practice time. Math competitions are no different than anything else in this respect.

Kids aiming for MathCounts nationals or AIME qualification before high school are spending at least an hour per day practicing math outside of school, and often more than that.

[Anonymous]

1/100 middle school kids participate in competitive math. If that. And there are a few schools who make all students take the test whether they want to or not. We like that though because it brings down the curve!

[Anonymous]

I am sure practice helps a lot. My kid is sharp in Math and is in 6th and doing an advanced magnet program for math and science. He didn't practice at all, didn't even know that earlier tests were available, and scored a 14 this year. I realize that isn't the 19 that others are touting for their 11 year olds, but man, I am proud of him. If he'd taken a few practice AMCs from previous years I bet he'd have gotten the 15 needed for the honor roll. But who cares - he's proud of himself and that's enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am sure practice helps a lot. My kid is sharp in Math and is in 6th and doing an advanced magnet program for math and science. He didn't practice at all, didn't even know that earlier tests were available, and scored a 14 this year. I realize that isn't the 19 that others are touting for their 11 year olds, but man, I am proud of him. If he'd taken a few practice AMCs from previous years I bet he'd have gotten the 15 needed for the honor roll. But who cares - he's proud of himself and that's enough.

Yes, practice makes a big difference. That is what we've been trying to communicate to the parent who felt an average score meant their child wasn't up to snuff. We wanted to communicate that you can't really compare scores (and shouldn't) because of the advantage kids in competitive math programs have over the rest of the kids who may be superior math minds but lack the preparation. Then, as always, the peacock parents start chirping in with how great their kids did without practice. Now you are doing it too. DCUM threads always breakdown like this. Always.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1/100 middle school kids participate in competitive math. If that. And there are a few schools who make all students take the test whether they want to or not. We like that though because it brings down the curve!

Sure. A much much smaller fraction participate in competitive skiing, and unlike the math participants, the skiiers aren't self-selecting for high levels of talent. There, it's more of a rich person thing or a "your whole family does it" thing. It's a very bad example. If you simply must compare it to a sport, I'd compare it with gymnastics, which is still not mainstream, but has a larger participant base. Also, by middle school both gymnastics teams and competitive math teams are filled with kids who are both naturally talented and hard workers. I doubt that any academic competitive activities have a much larger participant base.

Practice is undoubtedly important. But the insinuations here that math contests are such a fringe thing and that *any* kid could earn high scores with enough practice are simply incorrect. There are a lot of kids in the AoPS forums who are working their tails off and practicing a lot, but who still aren't earning the high scores. It would be very insulting and offensive to those kids to tell them that they didn't practice enough.

Math contests and math in general are exactly like every single other activity: Practice + talent is the key to success. You can't reach the highest levels or win awards with only one or the other, but not both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, practice makes a big difference. That is what we've been trying to communicate to the parent who felt an average score meant their child wasn't up to snuff. We wanted to communicate that you can't really compare scores (and shouldn't) because of the advantage kids in competitive math programs have over the rest of the kids who may be superior math minds but lack the preparation.

Why does this even need to be stated? I would never enroll my child in a music competition and assume that he could waltz in after 1.5 years of lessons and beat the kids who have been playing for 6 or more years. I wouldn't have my kid try out for a travel soccer team and expect him to make the team when he hasn't practiced much. I wouldn't stick my kid, who very casually plays chess on his computer, into a chess tournament and then act like my kid sucks for not winning.

It should be blindingly obvious that if your kid enters a competition filled with kids who are bright and have generally practiced a lot, your kid who hasn't practiced is not going to do very well.

[Anonymous]

To parents who share their scores, I don't feel you are showing off at all. I appreciate your sharing of information and perspectives. Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, practice makes a big difference. That is what we've been trying to communicate to the parent who felt an average score meant their child wasn't up to snuff. We wanted to communicate that you can't really compare scores (and shouldn't) because of the advantage kids in competitive math programs have over the rest of the kids who may be superior math minds but lack the preparation.

Why does this even need to be stated? I would never enroll my child in a music competition and assume that he could waltz in after 1.5 years of lessons and beat the kids who have been playing for 6 or more years. I wouldn't have my kid try out for a travel soccer team and expect him to make the team when he hasn't practiced much. I wouldn't stick my kid, who very casually plays chess on his computer, into a chess tournament and then act like my kid sucks for not winning.

It should be blindingly obvious that if your kid enters a competition filled with kids who are bright and have generally practiced a lot, your kid who hasn't practiced is not going to do very well.

Yes, you would think that was obvious and then you have the parents that keep responding with "I disagree, my genius got a 19 without any practice." Remember, this all started with someone asking if a 6th grader getting a 10 was a good score or not and people trying to put it in perspective that level of math and practice are what really affect scores.