Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is race blind admission process currently. So how is this discrimination or segregation?

It is not.

They have tried a number of things--including hiring an outreach coordinator a few years ago expressly to get Blacks and Hispanics (under represented) into TJ. The coordinator received a good salary--but, no results. Not sure if they still have one or not.

My child, a white NMSF had no interest in going to TJ. More interested in liberal arts and knew it. Too far and wanted the activities offered at local high school. It may be hard for SB members and many on this forum to believe, but not all kids want to go to TJ.

I don't understand why the SB wants to mess up something that seems to be working for a lot of people. TJ does not ensure success in life. And, it doesn't ensure ruin in life.

I did not know much about the prep classes until the last week or so--I knew they existed, but had no idea they were so prevalent among the students going to TJ. I kind of have a problem with the idea of them because I would think you would want kids there who naturally can succeed without prep classes. Other than that, I'd leave it alone. Maybe subtract points if you take a prep class, but that would have to be on the honor system.

And there are different types of prep. Most places are a basic 20 hour class during the summer. Others are YEARS long and involve literally 1,000’s of hours. (And if that is not enough, possibly the test ahead of time.)

The second is the place that got 28% of the class of 2024. Most of the kids that did the 20 hour class are along the same lines as taking a class to become familiar with the SAT. FCPS even offers one.

Stop spreading misinformation. Test score is considered only for the initial screening. The test score is not considered for the final round of admissions so the test prep center is responsible for helping with the first round not for final admission into TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a white TJ graduate and I would be FINE if the percentage of white students stayed the same or (even better) went down, while the percentages of other under-represented minorities became more balanced across the board. I definitely don't care about making TJ white again. I do care about giving black and brown students (esp from disadvantaged backgrounds) a chance.

And, since I obv have no skin in the game as an old person alumni, I'll say that if my kid was applying to TJ (he isn't; we don't live in Fx anymore), I'd be fine if he wasn't accepted so that a student of color could attend. My kid gets lots of privilege from his parents' status as white people, and, while TJ might be a great opportunity for him, it's perfectly acceptable to me to give up a "spot" so others without that kind of systemic privilege have more opportunity.

Please don't assume that all alumni (or even most) support admission reform b/c they want TJ to be more white again.

I think it is about making TJ less Asian, than more white. This is systemic racism towards Asians. Most Asians are immigrants with no family money or white privilege backing them. They are not large enough to have a voice being still a minority community and many still have language barriers and poor writing skills. FCPS should not try to bring down one population at the expense of another.

Asians are in the wealthiest racial group in the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a white TJ graduate and I would be FINE if the percentage of white students stayed the same or (even better) went down, while the percentages of other under-represented minorities became more balanced across the board. I definitely don't care about making TJ white again. I do care about giving black and brown students (esp from disadvantaged backgrounds) a chance.

And, since I obv have no skin in the game as an old person alumni, I'll say that if my kid was applying to TJ (he isn't; we don't live in Fx anymore), I'd be fine if he wasn't accepted so that a student of color could attend. My kid gets lots of privilege from his parents' status as white people, and, while TJ might be a great opportunity for him, it's perfectly acceptable to me to give up a "spot" so others without that kind of systemic privilege have more opportunity.

Please don't assume that all alumni (or even most) support admission reform b/c they want TJ to be more white again.

I think it is about making TJ less Asian, than more white. This is systemic racism towards Asians. Most Asians are immigrants with no family money or white privilege backing them. They are not large enough to have a voice being still a minority community and many still have language barriers and poor writing skills. FCPS should not try to bring down one population at the expense of another.

Asians are in the wealthiest racial group in the country.

Most Asians are not wealthy- they are lower middle, middle or upper middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It is race blind admission process currently. So how is this discrimination or segregation?

It is not.

They have tried a number of things--including hiring an outreach coordinator a few years ago expressly to get Blacks and Hispanics (under represented) into TJ. The coordinator received a good salary--but, no results. Not sure if they still have one or not.

My child, a white NMSF had no interest in going to TJ. More interested in liberal arts and knew it. Too far and wanted the activities offered at local high school. It may be hard for SB members and many on this forum to believe, but not all kids want to go to TJ.

I don't understand why the SB wants to mess up something that seems to be working for a lot of people. TJ does not ensure success in life. And, it doesn't ensure ruin in life.

I did not know much about the prep classes until the last week or so--I knew they existed, but had no idea they were so prevalent among the students going to TJ. I kind of have a problem with the idea of them because I would think you would want kids there who naturally can succeed without prep classes. Other than that, I'd leave it alone. Maybe subtract points if you take a prep class, but that would have to be on the honor system.

And clearly there is no honor among TJ parents if this board is any indication, hence, here we are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is race blind admission process currently. So how is this discrimination or segregation?

It is not.

They have tried a number of things--including hiring an outreach coordinator a few years ago expressly to get Blacks and Hispanics (under represented) into TJ. The coordinator received a good salary--but, no results. Not sure if they still have one or not.

My child, a white NMSF had no interest in going to TJ. More interested in liberal arts and knew it. Too far and wanted the activities offered at local high school. It may be hard for SB members and many on this forum to believe, but not all kids want to go to TJ.

I don't understand why the SB wants to mess up something that seems to be working for a lot of people. TJ does not ensure success in life. And, it doesn't ensure ruin in life.

I did not know much about the prep classes until the last week or so--I knew they existed, but had no idea they were so prevalent among the students going to TJ. I kind of have a problem with the idea of them because I would think you would want kids there who naturally can succeed without prep classes. Other than that, I'd leave it alone. Maybe subtract points if you take a prep class, but that would have to be on the honor system.

And there are different types of prep. Most places are a basic 20 hour class during the summer. Others are YEARS long and involve literally 1,000’s of hours. (And if that is not enough, possibly the test ahead of time.)

The second is the place that got 28% of the class of 2024. Most of the kids that did the 20 hour class are along the same lines as taking a class to become familiar with the SAT. FCPS even offers one.

Stop spreading misinformation. Test score is considered only for the initial screening. The test score is not considered for the final round of admissions so the test prep center is responsible for helping with the first round not for final admission into TJ.

CHEATING IN THE FIRST ROUND IS STILL CHEATING. What the actual heck is wrong with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is race blind admission process currently. So how is this discrimination or segregation?

It is not.

They have tried a number of things--including hiring an outreach coordinator a few years ago expressly to get Blacks and Hispanics (under represented) into TJ. The coordinator received a good salary--but, no results. Not sure if they still have one or not.

My child, a white NMSF had no interest in going to TJ. More interested in liberal arts and knew it. Too far and wanted the activities offered at local high school. It may be hard for SB members and many on this forum to believe, but not all kids want to go to TJ.

I don't understand why the SB wants to mess up something that seems to be working for a lot of people. TJ does not ensure success in life. And, it doesn't ensure ruin in life.

I did not know much about the prep classes until the last week or so--I knew they existed, but had no idea they were so prevalent among the students going to TJ. I kind of have a problem with the idea of them because I would think you would want kids there who naturally can succeed without prep classes. Other than that, I'd leave it alone. Maybe subtract points if you take a prep class, but that would have to be on the honor system.

And there are different types of prep. Most places are a basic 20 hour class during the summer. Others are YEARS long and involve literally 1,000’s of hours. (And if that is not enough, possibly the test ahead of time.)

The second is the place that got 28% of the class of 2024. Most of the kids that did the 20 hour class are along the same lines as taking a class to become familiar with the SAT. FCPS even offers one.

Stop spreading misinformation. Test score is considered only for the initial screening. The test score is not considered for the final round of admissions so the test prep center is responsible for helping with the first round not for final admission into TJ.

CHEATING IN THE FIRST ROUND IS STILL CHEATING. What the actual heck is wrong with you.

I thought you acknowledged that what you had described was not cheating. Also, stop saying this one prep center is responsible for z number of admissions to TJ when clearly that is not the case. Say this prep center helped applicants pass the initial testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a white TJ graduate and I would be FINE if the percentage of white students stayed the same or (even better) went down, while the percentages of other under-represented minorities became more balanced across the board. I definitely don't care about making TJ white again. I do care about giving black and brown students (esp from disadvantaged backgrounds) a chance.

And, since I obv have no skin in the game as an old person alumni, I'll say that if my kid was applying to TJ (he isn't; we don't live in Fx anymore), I'd be fine if he wasn't accepted so that a student of color could attend. My kid gets lots of privilege from his parents' status as white people, and, while TJ might be a great opportunity for him, it's perfectly acceptable to me to give up a "spot" so others without that kind of systemic privilege have more opportunity.

Please don't assume that all alumni (or even most) support admission reform b/c they want TJ to be more white again.

How nice of you. You should also think about discrimination faced by Asian students as well while you are at it. Especially since Asian Americans lack adequate political clout to fight discrimination unlike blacks and Hispanics.

You think blacks and Hispanics have political clout to fight discrimination? Are you new to this country?

Astronomically more so than Asian Americans.

Black and Hispanics face exponentially more racism in this country than Asians. What you view as political clout is just their loud expression of frustration. It never goes anywhere, so no, they have no "clout" to fight discrimination.

You are obviously not Asian so you cannot know the discrimination faced by Asians in this country. You also don't want to get into which group faces more discrimination than other groups. Asians do not even have means to "express" their frustrations precisely because of the attitudes held by people like you. You demonstrated my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is race blind admission process currently. So how is this discrimination or segregation?

It is not.

They have tried a number of things--including hiring an outreach coordinator a few years ago expressly to get Blacks and Hispanics (under represented) into TJ. The coordinator received a good salary--but, no results. Not sure if they still have one or not.

My child, a white NMSF had no interest in going to TJ. More interested in liberal arts and knew it. Too far and wanted the activities offered at local high school. It may be hard for SB members and many on this forum to believe, but not all kids want to go to TJ.

I don't understand why the SB wants to mess up something that seems to be working for a lot of people. TJ does not ensure success in life. And, it doesn't ensure ruin in life.

I did not know much about the prep classes until the last week or so--I knew they existed, but had no idea they were so prevalent among the students going to TJ. I kind of have a problem with the idea of them because I would think you would want kids there who naturally can succeed without prep classes. Other than that, I'd leave it alone. Maybe subtract points if you take a prep class, but that would have to be on the honor system.

And there are different types of prep. Most places are a basic 20 hour class during the summer. Others are YEARS long and involve literally 1,000’s of hours. (And if that is not enough, possibly the test ahead of time.)

The second is the place that got 28% of the class of 2024. Most of the kids that did the 20 hour class are along the same lines as taking a class to become familiar with the SAT. FCPS even offers one.

Stop spreading misinformation. Test score is considered only for the initial screening. The test score is not considered for the final round of admissions so the test prep center is responsible for helping with the first round not for final admission into TJ.

CHEATING IN THE FIRST ROUND IS STILL CHEATING. What the actual heck is wrong with you.

I thought you acknowledged that what you had described was not cheating. Also, stop saying this one prep center is responsible for z number of admissions to TJ when clearly that is not the case. Say this prep center helped applicants pass the initial testing.

You're responding to multiple posters, I never said it wasn't cheating. Anyway, this tone deaf attitude about what is an isn't cheating is what got us where we are and your side of the argument is clearly losing the battle based on the proposed changes. If FCPS can't stop people from doing things that they consider cheating, then they get rid of what they think is giving an advantage to those who in their eyes are cheating. In this case, they've proposed getting rid of the test. This will likely be approved while you cling to your "say this test center helped applications pass the initial testing" argument. Let me know in a few months how it works out for you.

[Anonymous]

To the PP that said that test scores only matter in the first round:

You are 100% wrong. Go and look at the historical data on the FCAG website. It’s clear that higher scores translate to a higher likelihood of admission. Students are ranked within the semi-finalists as well. (Admitted, waitlist and rejected). The waitlist is likely ranked as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the PP that said that test scores only matter in the first round:

You are 100% wrong. Go and look at the historical data on the FCAG website. It’s clear that higher scores translate to a higher likelihood of admission. Students are ranked within the semi-finalists as well. (Admitted, waitlist and rejected). The waitlist is likely ranked as well.

So the cheating clearly also harmed students in the semifinalist pool, particularly those on the waitlist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a white TJ graduate and I would be FINE if the percentage of white students stayed the same or (even better) went down, while the percentages of other under-represented minorities became more balanced across the board. I definitely don't care about making TJ white again. I do care about giving black and brown students (esp from disadvantaged backgrounds) a chance.

And, since I obv have no skin in the game as an old person alumni, I'll say that if my kid was applying to TJ (he isn't; we don't live in Fx anymore), I'd be fine if he wasn't accepted so that a student of color could attend. My kid gets lots of privilege from his parents' status as white people, and, while TJ might be a great opportunity for him, it's perfectly acceptable to me to give up a "spot" so others without that kind of systemic privilege have more opportunity.

Please don't assume that all alumni (or even most) support admission reform b/c they want TJ to be more white again.

I think it is about making TJ less Asian, than more white. This is systemic racism towards Asians. Most Asians are immigrants with no family money or white privilege backing them. They are not large enough to have a voice being still a minority community and many still have language barriers and poor writing skills. FCPS should not try to bring down one population at the expense of another.

Asians are in the wealthiest racial group in the country.

Stuyvesant high school, NYC's elite high school is majority Asian and half poverty level. That's the only reason they didn't get to it yet. But they are trying. Apparently you can be Asian AND poor, and it's still not disadvantaged enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is race blind admission process currently. So how is this discrimination or segregation?

It is not.

They have tried a number of things--including hiring an outreach coordinator a few years ago expressly to get Blacks and Hispanics (under represented) into TJ. The coordinator received a good salary--but, no results. Not sure if they still have one or not.

My child, a white NMSF had no interest in going to TJ. More interested in liberal arts and knew it. Too far and wanted the activities offered at local high school. It may be hard for SB members and many on this forum to believe, but not all kids want to go to TJ.

I don't understand why the SB wants to mess up something that seems to be working for a lot of people. TJ does not ensure success in life. And, it doesn't ensure ruin in life.

I did not know much about the prep classes until the last week or so--I knew they existed, but had no idea they were so prevalent among the students going to TJ. I kind of have a problem with the idea of them because I would think you would want kids there who naturally can succeed without prep classes. Other than that, I'd leave it alone. Maybe subtract points if you take a prep class, but that would have to be on the honor system.

And there are different types of prep. Most places are a basic 20 hour class during the summer. Others are YEARS long and involve literally 1,000’s of hours. (And if that is not enough, possibly the test ahead of time.)

The second is the place that got 28% of the class of 2024. Most of the kids that did the 20 hour class are along the same lines as taking a class to become familiar with the SAT. FCPS even offers one.

Stop spreading misinformation. Test score is considered only for the initial screening. The test score is not considered for the final round of admissions so the test prep center is responsible for helping with the first round not for final admission into TJ.

The first round of the process is where we lose the Black and Hispanic students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is race blind admission process currently. So how is this discrimination or segregation?

It is not.

They have tried a number of things--including hiring an outreach coordinator a few years ago expressly to get Blacks and Hispanics (under represented) into TJ. The coordinator received a good salary--but, no results. Not sure if they still have one or not.

My child, a white NMSF had no interest in going to TJ. More interested in liberal arts and knew it. Too far and wanted the activities offered at local high school. It may be hard for SB members and many on this forum to believe, but not all kids want to go to TJ.

I don't understand why the SB wants to mess up something that seems to be working for a lot of people. TJ does not ensure success in life. And, it doesn't ensure ruin in life.

I did not know much about the prep classes until the last week or so--I knew they existed, but had no idea they were so prevalent among the students going to TJ. I kind of have a problem with the idea of them because I would think you would want kids there who naturally can succeed without prep classes. Other than that, I'd leave it alone. Maybe subtract points if you take a prep class, but that would have to be on the honor system.

And there are different types of prep. Most places are a basic 20 hour class during the summer. Others are YEARS long and involve literally 1,000’s of hours. (And if that is not enough, possibly the test ahead of time.)

The second is the place that got 28% of the class of 2024. Most of the kids that did the 20 hour class are along the same lines as taking a class to become familiar with the SAT. FCPS even offers one.

Stop spreading misinformation. Test score is considered only for the initial screening. The test score is not considered for the final round of admissions so the test prep center is responsible for helping with the first round not for final admission into TJ.

The first round of the process is where we lose the Black and Hispanic students.

I don’t think this is true. If you have a source, can you please cite it?

It is my understanding that the process, by legal requirement, is entirely race neutral. They can consider income and geographic diversity now, but unless the applicant really can sell themselves as unique in the essays, they don’t get any extra points s

[Anonymous]

Quotas should be equal to population %. If a ethnic group is 6% of the population than align their representation to that number.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Quotas should be equal to population %. If a ethnic group is 6% of the population than align their representation to that number.

Are you going to force people to go to TJ? Or just keep reducing the "over-represented" groups to get to the desired proportion?