French ban on burqas - what is your take?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I spent quite a bit of time in a predominantly Muslim country in my childhood and knew plenty of women (who tended to be poorer) using the burqa not because they liked it, but because it was the only way they could move around without being intimidated or harassed by men. I am much less sympathetic of burqas in the west.

This is really the heart of the matter - and fairly ironic at that.

How sad

How sad is right. It's like asking the sun to cover itself so we don't get sunburned. How about asking the men to show some restraint and stop treating women like second class citizens? If they can't do that, I like the pp's suggestion of blindfolds and white-tipped canes for all the adult males. Let them stay in their homes unless escorted by a female family member, and take care of the children. Let the women have the jobs - - I bet they'll have NO problem ignoring the men who are out and about!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's see for how long the Muslins have been in France:
Ma'am, the guys have been there for a while, right?

The custom of burgas? That is new

[Anonymous]

what if the daughter of the muslin lady said "LOOK MOM THAT WOMAN THERE IS NAKED IS LIKE SHE'S AN ANIMAL WALKING AROUND SHOWING HER PARTS!"?
it all depends on the values we're TAUGHT!
what we need to learn is tolerance. shame on us!

If she said that I would laugh. She can think what she wants to. I don't really care what she thinks. I care what MY child thinks and I would agree with my child's assessment that wearing a burqa reduces a woman to an anonymous ghost of a person.

I laugh at your disgrace!

Disgrace? Because I am wearing shorts, flip flops and a T shirt?

I don't think your priorities are in the right place. Disgrace is relegating half your population to non-person status because they don't have a penis. Women in countries where the burqa is mandated are hardly better than prisoners - in face may have fewer rights than prisoners in many countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's see for how long the Muslins have been in France:
Ma'am, the guys have been there for a while, right?

The custom of burgas? That is new

would you mind sharing some sources?

[Anonymous]

This post has prompted some pretty ridiculous answers. For all the posters who basically said if you move to a country, adopt its culture, yes you are right. But some, if not most of the muslims in France that you are referring to are born there legally and are French citizens. It's their country, they are not guests.

Also, the alleged point of the ban is not for "security reasons" as some posters said, but to prevent people from exposing prominent religious symbols in public places. This is just a continuation of the 2004 band in schools of all "ostentatious religious symbols". Which means if you find a burqua offensive, then you would also find it offensive if someone walks around with the star of David or a cross plastered all over themselves.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:This post has prompted some pretty ridiculous answers.

No kidding. I had to put my own response in the farce thread. Thanks for your post.

[Anonymous]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niq?b

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa

[Anonymous]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niq?b

[Anonymous]

Jeff, instead of being flip and sarcastic why don't you state what you think?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niq?b

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa

so what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This post has prompted some pretty ridiculous answers. For all the posters who basically said if you move to a country, adopt its culture, yes you are right. But some, if not most of the muslims in France that you are referring to are born there legally and are French citizens. It's their country, they are not guests.

Also, the alleged point of the ban is not for "security reasons" as some posters said, but to prevent people from exposing prominent religious symbols in public places. This is just a continuation of the 2004 band in schools of all "ostentatious religious symbols". Which means if you find a burqua offensive, then you would also find it offensive if someone walks around with the star of David or a cross plastered all over themselves.

All I can say is I'm glad I live in the U.S. where we have more freedom than that. I'm not a fan of the burqa or niqab; they are changing a religion I happen to respect a lot. To ask a woman to remove her hijab, burqa, or niqab, however, can often have the same effect or evoke the same types of feelings as asking an American woman to go naked in public. It's not a request or demand that I would ever make without a lot of consideration about its impact.

[Anonymous]

My concern is that banning burqas will not have the intended effect and will instead be a symbolic gesture with unfortunate consequences.

You can prohibit people from wearing burqas in public but you can't force women to leave the house without their burqa.

In a family where the women wear burqas, there's a pretty strong chance that this is the male relative's call. So if you ban burqas, this same person could either

(a) relent and let his wife/daughter/sister walk around France in other clothing. This seems very unlikely because France is even more dangerous than home, populated as it is with infidel men craving his women's flesh, not good Muslims who would also be tempted by said flesh.

(b) force wife/daughter/sister to stay inside the house for the entire time that they are living in France, for instance on a diplomatic posting or on a corporate assignment. This limitation on her freedom is even greater than the burqa, and France actually can't regulate it.

(c) not consider even going to France, which means said wife/daughter/sister will still be in a burqa, but not even get to see what life is like for women who aren't, have access to the ideas that France is purporting to promote by banning Burqas. So then no one benefits from this new way of life, and goes home with a new point of view.

The only thing you can accomplish is to carve a giant hole in French ideas of self expression in order to target an expression they don't like.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Jeff, instead of being flip and sarcastic why don't you state what you think?

What I think is that flip and sarcastic are the proper reactions to proposals that governments pass laws outlawing specific types of clothing.

If seeing someone's face is necessary for security or identification purposes, then pass a law saying that faces must be revealed for specific security and identification purposes. But, to say that an individual cannot legally wear a specific item of clothing in her own front yard is absurd. Indeed, if the item of clothing in question were not related to Islam, most of those supporting a burqa ban would be of the exact opposite opinion. Fear and ignorance are very effective at generating prejudicial and biased opinions and policies. That is very clear from many of the posts here.

[Anonymous]

11:06 poster here.

Agree with Jeff. And supporting the ban means you are supporting the ban of wearing say a t-shirt that says I love Jesus in bold in public places.

[Anonymous]

For the record, the French government started by setting up a parliamentary commission that then proposed legislation aimed at barring Muslim women from wearing the burqa and other fully covering gowns outside the home, if it was determined that use of the burqa was very clearly imposed on women. (Which was the conclusion of the study) While it is definitely a minority issue, part of the concern is the that it is a growing trend, it is very much a fundamentalist issue, and the French are concerned with any sort of fundamentalist religious belief.

THey recommends outlawing the full-length Muslim veil in public or state venues like buses, hospitals, and schools--Jeff, they can wear it in their own front yard. And the commission does also condemn "Islamophobia". THe report does not call for a complete ban.