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French ban on burqas - what is your take?
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Anonymous
Good for the French. No one else can wear a HAT in school. From the AP: http://www.staugustine.com/stories/012502/sta_455280.shtml Remember the Dutch filmmaker killed because local muslims didn't like his product? |
Anonymous
What is your point here? That we should have fewer headwear rules? That rules in Western countries re: religious attire cause extremist nutjobs to get violent? OR, that because there are violent religious nutjobs wanting to emigrate, European countries are correct in clamping down on the more extreme manifestations. |
Anonymous
|
Does this apply to orthoox Jewish women too?
Can they cover their heads, or is it just Muslim women? What about nuns? |
Anonymous
Good question -- France is semi-officially a Catholic country, so I wonder what the government's word is on the nuns' habits that cover the hair? I'm not aware of any other religion claiming that its female adherents need to cover 99.8% of their face -- not the Orthodox, not the Catholics, either -- and so the burqua -to - nun habit is not a perfect analogy. |
Anonymous
| THe banning of the hijab in schools is actually only part of the law, and it wasn't done to target muslims. France is fiercely determined to remain a secular state, and it also banned the wearing of jewish caps (forgot what they are called), large crucifixes, and other religious items. That particular law hit every religion across the board, essentially. Unlike the US, they aren't pseudo-secular. You don't swear on the Bible when you take an oath of office, they don't put "In God we Trust" on currency (I know it's the Euro now, but it wasn't on the Franc, either), etc. THat is what is driving some of these laws about banning religious items or wear in public and official places. |
Anonymous
| I hope we do the same thing. |
Anonymous
No it isn't. While it is the predominant faith in France, France does not have an official religion. France is a secular state. In fact, the French government recognizes NO religion, at it has the policy of total laicity, which means that religion is completely separate from the state. That is the underlying cause behind the ban on the wearing of hijab in schools, which also banned the wearing of ANY religious articles, to include the crucifix. |
Anonymous
But you have to agree that it's dehumanizing. Any religion that creates such a division between men and women is flawed. And burqas are the extreme. |
Anonymous
I honestly don't see the difference btw. Orthodox and Muslim practices with regard to dress. The most religious Orthodox women cover their heads with either hats or wigs and wear long skirts. When I asked one of my friends (reformed) about this practice regarding wigs and hats, she said that hair is considered to be alluring and that only a husband should see it. I really don't buy into that, but then again, I was raised to believe that a man, through dying on a cross, saved me from sin! Go figure! |
Anonymous
Dehumanizing is to make man wear suits and ties in a 40C weather. It's relative, sweet heart. If you grow up believing in something how can you judge what's best for others who grew up with different values? |
Anonymous
WOW that's news to me!!! |
Anonymous
"Sweetheart," why does your response make me think that you're also in favor of female genital mutilation? |
Anonymous
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[quote=Anonymous
Yes, this is my understanding as well. I think that (and correct me if I'm wrong here, if there's someone who knows about Islamic law) that it's the hijab that's required in Islamic law, not the burqa or other garments that cover the face. Hijab means the scarf (plus modest covering for the rest of the woman's body - face, hands and feet can be shown). That's my understanding as well. Traditionally, according to Islamic law, only the hijab is required. Niqab and burqa are not. The way Muslim women cover varies widely based on culture, though. A Malaysian will dress differently from an Egyptian, and differently still from a Saudi, etc. |
Anonymous
Not everything is relative. We make value judgments about others' belief systems all the time. Do you think it's ok for an 'adultress' to be stoned to death? What's wrong with it if it's part of a particular culture and value system? We once saw a woman in a burqa and my little daughter asked "Why is she all covered up like that? You can only see her eyes." I said that her religion requires her to be completely covered, and my daughter replied "But it's like she's not even a person." Even a small child can recognize how dehumanizing and degrading the burqa is for women. |
Anonymous
| I have never seen a burqa in the U.S. I see niqab all the time, but never a burqa. |